The International Clan League [Cancelled]

[MNDuke]

How can clans not have people who do not know how to play unlimited forts? They have been around forever! Nukes over a year now. There is no luck involved in unlimited forts. Flat rate has way more luck than unlimited forts. People who know how to play unlimited forts will run over people who are marginal on the setting. Luck has nothing to do with it. If a home team picks the setting they also know they risk not going first and I am sure they would account for it.

As mentioned not all clans are that proficent with unlimited forts and nukes. That was part of the reasoning for not including them and by doing such, it helps to keep this more competitive. It wouldn't be beneficial to cater to one clans preference so they could run away this. Luck also did factor into the decision as mentioned with turn order or drop, unlimited forts can turn the game quickly and also turn any map into a conquest style game. There's is no point in debating this any further as the rules are not going to change at this point and this distracts from any real issues that may need to be dealt with. We can review the rules and settings next year, and if everyone feels that unlimited forts and nukes should be included, then so be it. I guess I don't see the point in debating something that KORT had no interest participating in in the first place, due to their workload (as you have made so very clear) and not the rules. That doesn't mean I don't understand what you are saying, because I do, the time for this debate has passed though.

[Rodion]

Do you have another clan to play with anyway?

I didn't ask any yet, but I figure I'd pass the auditions in at least 1 clan out of 32.

Rodion, I will bring up your proposal with the CDs and the group and see what they think. Don't get your hopes up. Do you have another clan to play with anyway?

Not a chance in hell!

For the sake of argument, assume I leave KORT to join "Clan A". I get assigned into week 1 ICL games for "Clan A". Week 1 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A" and join KORT, coincidentally just in time to join week 5/6/7 CL4 games and batch 1 of CC round of 32. All those games start. I then decide to leave KORT and join "Clan A", coincidentally just in time to join week 4 ICL games (yes, unfortunately I missed weeks 2 and 3 on transition) for "Clan A". Week 5 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A"...

At what point would you intervene and forbid me from playing games/exercising my right to come and go?

[chapcrap]

There is no luck involved in unlimited forts.

Now, let's not say things that aren't true. Not that your sentiment is wrong...

Do you have another clan to play with anyway?

I didn't ask any yet, but I figure I'd pass the auditions in at least 1 clan out of 32.

Psh!

Rodion, I will bring up your proposal with the CDs and the group and see what they think. Don't get your hopes up. Do you have another clan to play with anyway?

Not a chance in hell!

For the sake of argument, assume I leave KORT to join "Clan A". I get assigned into week 1 ICL games for "Clan A". Week 1 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A" and join KORT, coincidentally just in time to join week 5/6/7 CL4 games and batch 1 of CC round of 32. All those games start. I then decide to leave KORT and join "Clan A", coincidentally just in time to join week 4 ICL games (yes, unfortunately I missed weeks 2 and 3 on transition) for "Clan A". Week 5 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A"...

At what point would you intervene and forbid me from playing games/exercising my right to come and go?

I assumed that would be the answer. I'll go ahead and make the ruling that you can only play with a clan you are a part of and all of your games must be finished with one clan before starting with another.

Also, we set a trade deadline of week 12. So, if you switch clans, you must be with your new clan by week 12 in order to play in the league.

[niMic]

It wouldn't be beneficial to cater to one clans preference so they could run away this.

But you're doing that, just the other way around. You're limiting a setting that no one else limits, because some clans are better at it than others.

Luck also did factor into the decision as mentioned with turn order or drop, unlimited forts can turn the game quickly and also turn any map into a conquest style game.

Luck factors into literally every single setting, but some less than others. And it's patently true that there is less luck with unlimited. That is very easy to see, in that a team that is good with unlimited forts will absolutely destroy a team that is merely ok.

[josko.ri]

You can blame me for the rules as I was the one who basically concepted them. The idea was to keep this more challenging and reduce the amount of luck based games. You can argue for against the ways we tried to achieve this, but from my (our) perception, not allowing unlimited forts and nukes keeps the event more competitive between all clans on the whole.

So you first say that unlimited increases luck factor (obviously decreases skill factor), and then you said you wanted the event more competitive between all clans.

If the #1 clan plays an unlimited home game vs #32 clan, isnt that in favor of the #32 clan? because, if they play some othr (chained fort) game where luck factor is low and skill factor is high, then #1 clan has huge advantage over #32 clan.
if #1 clan choose unlimited fort game vs #32 clan (so they CHOOSE to play on settings that has 50-50% to give first turn-great luck to opponents), isn't that what would make event more competitive? #32 clan would then have better chance to win vs #1 clan and therefore the whole thing would become more competitive for all clans, true?

not allowing that settings is only my personal reason for not participating, it is not KORT's reason. I like/enjoy those settings the most of all available settings, so logically without them I would not enjoy this competition like I enjoy other competitions where I can play unlimited. in KORT forum I wrote my decision that I won't play, but I never asked anyone from KORT to not sign up themselves without me, if they think they have enough active players for ICL.

[IcePack]

I humbly request any discussion of ICL 2013 (aka unlimited or other settings) be moved to the ICL thread under "clans" and not ICL 2012.

Rodion - for the sake of simplicity we will say you can only move clans once in the ICL and it must be before Week 12 or you can't compete in 13-18 ad playoffs. I also don't think you be eligible for medals anyway

Chap - thanks for getting the schedule done. I apologize to everyone it was supposed to go out yesterday but I spent the night in the ER. I will look over it and post today.

The ICL is set to begin!

IcePack

[MNDuke]

I humbly request any discussion of ICL 2013 (aka unlimited or other settings) be moved to the ICL thread under "clans" and not ICL 2012.

Rodion - for the sake of simplicity we will say you can only move clans once in the ICL and it must be before Week 12 or you can't compete in 13-18 ad playoffs. I also don't think you be eligible for medals anyway

Chap - thanks for getting the schedule done. I apologize to everyone it was supposed to go out yesterday but I spent the night in the ER. I will look over it and post today.

The ICL is set to begin!

IcePack

Thanks IcePack and Chap

[IcePack]

Ladies & Gents,
After seeking additional feedback from participants, discussing with CD's, amongst ourselves and looking at the prospects for the ICL 2012, we have decided to cancel.

While It has always been our desire to run a unique top class event and contribute to CC clan area, and the overwhelming feedback received showed a desire to lessen the number of events & support qwert's efforts instead. This and many other reasons combined were considered before making this decision and it was not done lightly.

While possibly in the future something like the ICL could be considered in a slightly altered format we will not be running this event. I want to thank all our supporters and those whose efforts to make this a success did not go unnoticed.

And while this season ICL will not begin, I still plan to be around and contribute to the clan area in the future. CD's - this thread can now be moved to archived.

Thanks,
Jason (aka, IcePack)

[Leehar]

Is qwert's idea still on the table?

[IcePack]

Is qwert's idea still on the table?

qwert is still running with his idea and entertaining discussions and suggestions for the league.
IcePack

[General Brock II]

Is qwert's idea still on the table?

qwert is still running with his idea and entertaining discussions and suggestions for the league.
IcePack

That's disappointing, IcePack. I know MNDuke had his heart in this idea... I hope that you all are okay. May your future endeavours be successful, and certainly don't misplace your ideas and progress, for I still find it to be an excellent idea (if, perhaps, unfortunate timing).

[MudPuppy]

That's a shame. Was really looking forward to the ICL.

[reptile]

is this for real? canceled? whats the reason if i may ask

[Rodion]

If I can't play, nobody will!



On a serious note, sorry to see this end. I know the feeling of investing yourself in an endeavor and seeing it not work for whatever reason. Good luck in the future!

[chemefreak]

Looks like it didn't go because the TO started his own clan and his clan isn't in the event...

[IcePack]

Looks like it didn't go because the TO started his own clan and his clan isn't in the event...

Seriously? My clan was in the event, KOA. The decision to leave KOA had nothing to do with the ICL. Like I said before, the ICL was run independently of KOA.
Why don't you pm me and ask something like this instead of spouting nonsense.
Thanks,
IcePack

[chemefreak]

Looks like it didn't go because the TO started his own clan and his clan isn't in the event...

Seriously? My clan was in the event, KOA. The decision to leave KOA had nothing to do with the ICL. Like I said before, the ICL was run independently of KOA.
Why don't you pm me and ask something like this instead of spouting nonsense.
Thanks,
IcePack

I'm sorry. I'm just wondering why you abandoned an event you (and others) put so much time into. I am a little pissed off. You obviously had clan support and could have sought other people to help but instead you just gave up on it. I'm just disappointed this didn't get off the ground and I think everyone should get an honest answer why it was given up on so easily.

[Keefie]

+1 Chemefreak

Bring back the ICL, Qwert's league is so far off happening.

[IcePack]

Looks like it didn't go because the TO started his own clan and his clan isn't in the event...

Seriously? My clan was in the event, KOA. The decision to leave KOA had nothing to do with the ICL. Like I said before, the ICL was run independently of KOA.
Why don't you pm me and ask something like this instead of spouting nonsense.
Thanks,
IcePack

I'm sorry. I'm just wondering why you abandoned an event you (and others) put so much time into. I am a little pissed off. You obviously had clan support and could have sought other people to help but instead you just gave up on it. I'm just disappointed this didn't get off the ground and I think everyone should get an honest answer why it was given up on so easily.

We did put a lot of work into this event, and wanted to be sure it would be a success.
I'm sorry you are upset, but to link the two issues is completely false and just going to piss me off making outlandish statements like that. If you wanted an honest answer, I have given it.
It was not a matter of not having help - we had that. Before any decision was made we not only sought feedback but also discussed the event with Bruce. I'm sorry you weren't in the loop for those discussions.
I think there are a few people that are disappointed. I am one of them. But I wasn't about to run an event that after reviewing all te information I had, didn't look like it would be a successful season. It would be irresponsible of me to push forward knowing that and NOT in the best interest of the CC clan community.
So contrary to your opinion, it wasn't given up on "so easily". Out of the feedback we received, TWO clan representatives gave support / wanted to continue. Out of 32.
Thanks,
IcePack

PS - I requested this get archived over a month ago, and unless there's some reason to debate the collective judgement of Bruce, the ICL team, and te replies we got from clan leaders then there's no further reason to discuss this.

[lynch5762]

+1 Chemefreak

Bring back the ICL, Qwert's league is so far off happening.

I respectfully disagree here.... I am not sure why the organizers decided to put this on the shelf but I am sure they had their reasons.

All I know is this... When this was getting under way, we (The Pack) were preparing for CL4 and decided that this would be too much for us to handle at the same time. Qwert's concept for a league was also starting to gain momentum. We have had discussions about this amongst ourselves and I think that we will most likely decide to participate in one clan league event per year. I know that there was a lot of participation in this and there may be many clans that are willing to play in multiple leagues, but I think that just creates a "watered down" situation. It takes a lot of effort to seriously compete in one season by itself. I don't speak for everyone in the pack but I am pretty sure that if multiple leagues are created, We will be discussing which one is the most important for us to participate in.

It would be nice if all those that are putting so much time into this and other leagues could get together and create the best league. It would probably take many compromises from all but i think it could happen. Just my thoughts...

[chapcrap]

Looks like it didn't go because the TO started his own clan and his clan isn't in the event...

Seriously? My clan was in the event, KOA. The decision to leave KOA had nothing to do with the ICL. Like I said before, the ICL was run independently of KOA.
Why don't you pm me and ask something like this instead of spouting nonsense.
Thanks,
IcePack

I'm sorry. I'm just wondering why you abandoned an event you (and others) put so much time into. I am a little pissed off. You obviously had clan support and could have sought other people to help but instead you just gave up on it. I'm just disappointed this didn't get off the ground and I think everyone should get an honest answer why it was given up on so easily.

Being pissed gives you permission to bait someone in a forum that you're supposed to moderate? Grow up.

Out of all of the contacts that I asked about preferences between the ICL setup and qwert's setup, there were 3 that replied they wanted ICL. You, MNDuke (surprise), and one other. Everyone was in favor of a different setup. IcePack even talked with Bruce about it before we messaged any clans. It might have been easier to continue with it if you hadn't thrown a fit when you received my message and removed everyone's privs along with moving the thread from active back to here. Just saying.

[benga]

I didn't get any pm, not sure if other clans did.

[angola]

I didn't get any pm, not sure if other clans did.

I did. And I voted yes to continue (though I'm OK with it getting canceled. The organizers had their reasons and they work for me).

[lokisgal]

Perhaps now that this isnt going to run MNDuke would kindly unfoe all the clan leaders who told him they could not at this time participate in this event

[MudPuppy]

So, was it two:

Out of the feedback we received, TWO clan representatives gave support / wanted to continue. Out of 32

.... or three:

Out of all of the contacts that I asked about preferences between the ICL setup and qwert's setup, there were 3 that replied they wanted ICL. You, MNDuke (surprise), and one other.

.... or four who wanted to continue???
I was one "one other" and apparently angola was another "one other" who wanted ICL. Or was it many more than that??? Am I to believe that out of 32 clans who committed to the ICL that 28+ went back on that commitment? Based on what new information that wasn't already stated months ago? I'm not usually much of a conspiracy theorist but something just ain't right about all of this. Perhaps 85%+ of those 32 clans really are that flaky... but I'm a bit skeptical and wouldn't be surprised if there's more to the story than that.

Why even propose this either/or scenario between the ICL and qwert's idea... without involving qwert?!?!?

And i dont have any involvment in cancel of ICL, so again i dont know what you connect this two . You have Organisers of ICL, and you can ask hem if you interesting .

... especially when it seems that qwert's fine proposal seems more suited to become CL5 (replacing CL4) rather than derail the ICL... whose regular season was scheduled to end before qwert's league is slated to begin.

The decision to cancel was made "after seeking additional feedback from participants, discussing with CD's, amongst ourselves and looking at the prospects for the ICL 2012." You had 32 clans commit to the league (a very strong showing for what was to be its inaugural year); at least one CD (chemefreak) wanted to see the ICL continue. IcePack had not too long ago restated his commitment to seeing the ICL through and even in its last hours continued to express hope that it would move forward. MNDuke, apparently still wanted the ICL to continue... so where did this anti-ICL sentiment come from?!?! How did the prospects of the league suddenly diminish beyond the point of no return. I understand and accept there is no saving it now... but it looked like everything was all set to go until someone pulled the rug out from underneath at the last minute.