Age of Merchants - [Quenched]

casper · Post by **casper** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:12 am

i haven't looked at this thread in a while. it's shaping up nicely. as johloh said the factory does not look like a factory. i thought it was some strange plant until i looked at the legend and realized that was smoke. and the market looks like a covered wagon to me.

the transporting a resource pair to a foreign market sounds tough and maybe warrants a +3? and are there no continent bonuses? apologies if these have been answered already but it's late and i'm too tired to look for the answer among 40+ pages.

nice job DiM.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:05 am

johloh wrote:I havent been checking up on this map lately...but i am happy to say that the legend text makes sense to me now...im glad you cleared up the wording.

i so relived. there was much work into making the legend clear. thanks to all that helped.

johloh wrote:i like the resource graphics, but im not a huge fan of the market and the factory graphics...i feel like they could look a little more factory or marketish...

since the time frame is somewhere 3-400 years ago, you certainly don't expect a market or a factory to look like today. regarding the market i think you're the first one to say you don't like it. sorry to hear that. at first i had a market that was in open space with various tables for products, etc but because the icons are so small you could not really tell what it is. so i
put that nifty little wooden store. i think it a good compromise.

the factory had several versions. this old factory, a modern one and one in between. after several people expressed their opinion the result was that this map stays. because while it's not like an easy to recognize modern factory, it is true to the time frame.

johloh wrote:also...the main issue i see is the making of the small map...do you have any plan for that? I think your big map is already too big (800X800) but thats not a huge deal...I dont see anyway to make the map small and have all that tons of text...you might want to play around and see if you can pull it off?

there's no way this map could be much smaller. because i have to write lots of explanations. probably in the future if this type of map catches the attention and it becomes popular, people will start to lean playing it with less instructions and future merchant maps won't need such extensive legends.

for example in the classic maps some don't even say mountains are impassable or that the dotted lines on the water are routes to attack, people already know it and don't need a legend.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:06 am

yeti_c wrote:
johloh wrote:I havent been checking up on this map lately...but i am happy to say that the legend text makes sense to me now...im glad you cleared up the wording.

i like the resource graphics, but im not a huge fan of the market and the factory graphics...i feel like they could look a little more factory or marketish...

also...the main issue i see is the making of the small map...do you have any plan for that? I think your big map is already too big (800X800) but thats not a huge deal...I dont see anyway to make the map small and have all that tons of text...you might want to play around and see if you can pull it off?
To be honest... I don't think this is an issue... I reckon the small text could have an icon based legend that says "For more details see Large map" or similar?

Is this a good idea Keyogi?

C.

could be. i don't see why not. i like the idea and it's easy to do if keyogi or andy think it's ok

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:09 am

I like the poll.
The map is good.
But the poll tops it.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:30 am

casper wrote:i haven't looked at this thread in a while. it's shaping up nicely. as johloh said the factory does not look like a factory. i thought it was some strange plant until i looked at the legend and realized that was smoke. and the market looks like a covered wagon to me.

the transporting a resource pair to a foreign market sounds tough and maybe warrants a +3? and are there no continent bonuses? apologies if these have been answered already but it's late and i'm too tired to look for the answer among 40+ pages. nice job DiM.

for the factory market icon issue look above this post where i answered johloh.

regarding the foreign market trade. i think +2 is adequate because on this map you have loads and loads of combinations to get bonuses.

what i wanted on this map was to design it in such a way that there are dozens of winning combinations. and that tactics prime over luck.

on some maps there are clear hotspots or bottlenecks on the map that allow only a few successful options. and initial deployment is very important.

for example the classic map. one winning combination is to take south america then north america (or vice versa) this seems like the most common tactic. if by any chance you end up with most your troops in europe and asia you're pretty much crapped cause your only option is to go for another guys continent or just stick around and wait.

well no matter how crappy your deployment is, on this map you'll always have something to grab in the vicinity. this sorts the deployment randomness. ofcourse in extreme cases (1 in a billion chance) people will get extremely lucky deployments even on this map.
i've seen outstanding lucks like staarting with australia and south america (both already taken) or like starting with a whole triangle on chinese checkers. but i repeat, that's one in a billion.

after the deployment is done and the game is on the way you'll see the fun in this system bonus. you'll see that you can really fo up to 8-10 reinfs per turn despite the small bonuses. and the most important thing is that you always have a back-up. on any of the other maps you lose one terit from the continent and you lose all the bonus. here it's not like that.

let's say you have 2 res a market a factory on a continent and another market on another continent plus 2 connecting ports and pirate cove. your bonus is +1 for locally trading resources. +1 for the factory. +2 for foreign market trading. +2 for pirate cove and ports. that's +6

let's say someone comes and takes one of your ports the one on the foreign market continent. your pirate cove bonus is +1instead of +2 and you lose the foreign market trade bonus. but you still remain with +3. that counts. and now the really good part. while on a classic style map your next action would be to try and take your continent back by attacking where it was breached, i find it really disturbing because this way it makes the game rather predictable. on the other hand this map offers you several options after you lose that port. let's see some.
*use your port to take other ports and increase your pirate cove bonus.
*use your port to take the other port in that continent and establish a foreign trade route again.
*take the 2 resources on the foreign market continent and transport them locally
*get another port and market on a different continent.
*etc.

so open play lots of movement options and lots of bonus options no certain win every time strategy.

while i agree some people will find this map really hard i think it will be so only because they lack the necessary skills to develop a proper tactic and adapt to the many changes and options this map offers.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:32 am

Skittles! wrote:I like the poll.
The map is good.
But the poll tops it.

lol. just doing my job delivering some fun to the world of cranky cartographers

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:20 pm

so what do you guys think, should i make the 3rd eye like the other 2 (with burned flesh around) or leave it like that?

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:51 pm

i'll be away for 4 days. i wonder if this thread will have any more feedback when i come back. i guess not

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Maybe while DiM is away, Andy might pop in and have a look at the map

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:23 pm

cairnswk wrote:Maybe while DiM is away, Andy might pop in and have a look at the map

i don't think he will. if he did not do it in the first 43 pages i don't think he will now

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:51 am

It's possible that Andy knows what the new XML system will entail...

And therefore is waiting for that to be brought in as it will help this map...

Andy? Care to verify?

C.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:42 am

guess you ate your plutonium crackers.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:43 pm

yeti_c wrote:It's possible that Andy knows what the new XML system will entail...

And therefore is waiting for that to be brought in as it will help this map...

Andy? Care to verify?

C.

i'd like to know as well.. i have a few maps in development that arn't possible and may not even be possible even with the new xml. so it would be nice to know what the upgrades will be even before they are upgraded.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:45 pm

hush hush children of the foundry...all will be revealed through the crystal ball lol

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 02, 2007 2:24 am

yeti_c wrote:It's possible that Andy knows what the new XML system will entail...

And therefore is waiting for that to be brought in as it will help this map...

Andy? Care to verify?

C.

this map is possible without any xml upgrades so i seriously doubt this is the reason

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 02, 2007 2:25 am

Enigma wrote:guess you ate your plutonium crackers.

yummy. the breakfast of champions

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:47 pm

i was thinking, what if i added realism to the map?

since we're going to get a brand new xml system, i was thinking of the following changes:

1. depleting resources. resources get depleted after a certain number of turns and they appear in another spot.
2. storm seasons. in storm seasons the connected docking points no longer connect.
3. pirate raids pirates could start raiding and set embargo on ports. let's say half of the ports are randomly chosen and they no longer function as a port. no trading no traveling.
4. market demands certain markets could ask for certain resources at certain times. for example coffee is really needed in Solitud. this coffee demand is active for 3 turns. the player that manages to take coffee to solitud gets an extra bonus.
5. market overflow at some point the local market may become overflowed by the current local resource and it will no longer give a bonus for it.
6. random treasures. on the map there are hidden treasures. if by chance you conquer that territory you receive an army bonus for that turn. only available if you already hold the pirate cove.

what do you think?

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:04 pm

Sounds really good. Will be hard to implement, but you could try wuth the new system

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:24 pm

DiM wrote:i was thinking, what if i added realism to the map?

since we're going to get a brand new xml system, i was thinking of the following changes:

1. depleting resources. resources get depleted after a certain number of turns and they appear in another spot.
2. storm seasons. in storm seasons the connected docking points no longer connect.
3. pirate raids pirates could start raiding and set embargo on ports. let's say half of the ports are randomly chosen and they no longer function as a port. no trading no traveling.
4. market demands certain markets could ask for certain resources at certain times. for example coffee is really needed in Solitud. this coffee demand is active for 3 turns. the player that manages to take coffee to solitud gets an extra bonus.
5. market overflow at some point the local market may become overflowed by the current local resource and it will no longer give a bonus for it.
6. random treasures. on the map there are hidden treasures. if by chance you conquer that territory you receive an army bonus for that turn. only available if you already hold the pirate cove.

what do you think?

maybe you should also wait until we get bigger maps so you can fit all that in the legend

.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:52 am

freezie wrote:Sounds really good. Will be hard to implement, but you could try wuth the new system

hopefully with the new system it won't be that hard.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:55 am

mibi wrote:
DiM wrote:i was thinking, what if i added realism to the map?

since we're going to get a brand new xml system, i was thinking of the following changes:

1. depleting resources. resources get depleted after a certain number of turns and they appear in another spot.
2. storm seasons. in storm seasons the connected docking points no longer connect.
3. pirate raids pirates could start raiding and set embargo on ports. let's say half of the ports are randomly chosen and they no longer function as a port. no trading no traveling.
4. market demands certain markets could ask for certain resources at certain times. for example coffee is really needed in Solitud. this coffee demand is active for 3 turns. the player that manages to take coffee to solitud gets an extra bonus.
5. market overflow at some point the local market may become overflowed by the current local resource and it will no longer give a bonus for it.
6. random treasures. on the map there are hidden treasures. if by chance you conquer that territory you receive an army bonus for that turn. only available if you already hold the pirate cove.

what do you think?
maybe you should also wait until we get bigger maps so you can fit all that in the legend .

actually i was thinking that when the new system is implemented they'll also add some explanations in the instructions. thus helping us make the legends smaller.

also if they include animated maps, legends could be rather small but animated and they scroll through the text automatically.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:45 am

bla bla spam bump

i wonder if andy is ever going to post in this thread

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:04 pm

this is the final week for this map. unless something gets going i will no longer work on it.

646 replyes and 11710 views apparently weren't enough to get the attention of andy.

the map has evolved a lot and all the issues that were brought up have been addressed. both gameplay issues and graphics issues have been debated and modified extensively hence the 74 updates i've made on this map.

i've seen andy post his opinion on lots of maps and frankly this is the only thread he hasn't posted in. don't know why and i don't really care.

since i've had no feedback on it and nobody has requested any changes i think this map is nearly finished. but because i've had no official feedback to make it final forge or at least share an opinion and ask for some modifications i have come to the conclusion it is of no use to work on it.

hopefully at least i'll get an explanation from andy why he never bothered to post in this thread.

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:08 pm

send him a pm? I personally think its a nice map and would hate to see it abandoned.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:25 pm

nagerous wrote:send him a pm? I personally think its a nice map and would hate to see it abandoned.

i don't want to send him a pm. this thread has been in the foundry for the last 2 months. he also removed some polls as i requested so he knows this thread exists. if he does not want to post here it's his option and i don't want to force him.