Mafia tournament - Open Setups

[DoomYoshi]

Anyways, the reason I like JK9++ is because doctor becomes a viable fakeclaim. I hate how counterclaiming is seen as a gold standard for scumtell. Who says there can't be 2 trackers?

[safariguy5]

I'm partial to Pie E7 myself.

[DoomYoshi]

I'm partial to Pie E7 myself.

It's in the category: unbalanced open setups. Doesn't say why on the page, though. In general, I think non-randoms are pretty tough to balance.

I can only think of one: true love.

[ghostly447]

All of this got me thinking. I dont think a Tournament would exactly give glory to all those who earned it. There would be too much throwing under the bus trying to make it to the end just to win.

Does anyone know how to make a latter? That is something that could maybe be an entirely different thread off of this forum that would have a list of players and ordered ranking of personal mafia wins, town wins, 3rd party wins, etc, and overall wins and losses. Then as games are completed, the latter is updated by a mod specifically assigned to it (even if its just a volunteer mod that has time on their hands).

That way, our game play doesnt exactly change to throwing everyone under, its still a team effort, and records are just kept and maybe the top 3 could have awards. And there could be separate awards for things like: First to 3 mafia wins, First to 3 3rd party wins, and stuff of that sort. Even most MVP awards.

Just my thinking, but if we can work out all the kinks in this tournament, I still think it will be interesting .

[safariguy5]

All of this got me thinking. I dont think a Tournament would exactly give glory to all those who earned it. There would be too much throwing under the bus trying to make it to the end just to win.

Does anyone know how to make a latter? That is something that could maybe be an entirely different thread off of this forum that would have a list of players and ordered ranking of personal mafia wins, town wins, 3rd party wins, etc, and overall wins and losses. Then as games are completed, the latter is updated by a mod specifically assigned to it (even if its just a volunteer mod that has time on their hands).

That way, our game play doesnt exactly change to throwing everyone under, its still a team effort, and records are just kept and maybe the top 3 could have awards. And there could be separate awards for things like: First to 3 mafia wins, First to 3 3rd party wins, and stuff of that sort. Even most MVP awards.

Just my thinking, but if we can work out all the kinks in this tournament, I still think it will be interesting .

There's a thread in the CC Mafioso group and also an older one in the discussions where people informally keep their record of games.

I doubt we could do anything official, but it's nice to look at your track record.

[jonty125]

I would be interested to help play & run.

[pmchugh]

All of this got me thinking. I dont think a Tournament would exactly give glory to all those who earned it. There would be too much throwing under the bus trying to make it to the end just to win.

Does anyone know how to make a latter? That is something that could maybe be an entirely different thread off of this forum that would have a list of players and ordered ranking of personal mafia wins, town wins, 3rd party wins, etc, and overall wins and losses. Then as games are completed, the latter is updated by a mod specifically assigned to it (even if its just a volunteer mod that has time on their hands).

That way, our game play doesnt exactly change to throwing everyone under, its still a team effort, and records are just kept and maybe the top 3 could have awards. And there could be separate awards for things like: First to 3 mafia wins, First to 3 3rd party wins, and stuff of that sort. Even most MVP awards.

Just my thinking, but if we can work out all the kinks in this tournament, I still think it will be interesting .

There's a thread in the CC Mafioso group and also an older one in the discussions where people informally keep their record of games.

I doubt we could do anything official, but it's nice to look at your track record.

Yeah we were almost at the stage of having every game recorded but then people got lazy .It would be easier if you just had a ladder or league for a small set of games. Say we run two games at once of whatever open setups and you get points for each win relative to how difficult it was. MVP could also be given extra points.

[Rodion]

Open setups I'd be willing to use:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... our_Poison - 10-player game
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bad_Tweed - 12-player game
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Chosen_Mafia - 9-player game

To be continued...

[DoomYoshi]

Bad tweed is broken in favor of mafia.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, this has stalled somewhat. In general, I prefer more elaborate setups.

Pick your poison (actually a 13-player setup)
Advantages: a variety of interesting possibilities; opens up scum to many fakeclaiming possibilities
Disadvantages: I don't see many. Jailkeeper will probably always be selected; tracker will probably never be selected; having town roles in player hands is a mixed bag i think - i like the novelty of it, but I don't like the non-randomness of it (might skew more heavily towards experienced players)

Chosen Mafia (9-player setup)
Advantages: a quick mafia game; very simple to understand, nights will go fast; a proven setup
Disadvantages: Has a highly specific strategy set not found in regular mafia games (for the mafia, not the town); vanilla games are boring, may not keep players around (lends itself towards the tournament being won by attrition)

C9++/JK9++ (13-player setup)
Advantages: many possible setups, abundant in power roles, scalable strength of both teams
Disadvantages: possibility of serial killer (needs some serious revision); with so many potential power roles, there are always mod problems AND player problems (mods don't select randomly, and will select for more high-powered setups - if you don't believe me check the stats on C9 games)(players might feel ripped off if everyone else has a power role and they are stuck as a vanilla)

True Love (8-player setup)
Advantages: the only mafia setup on mafiascum (open or closed) with a proven 50% chance of winning for both factions
Disadvantages: a very specific strategy not found in regular games (just like chosen, except this time it is for both mafia and town)

Here is a link about relative town % chance winning:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... EV_Project

Also, to factor out broken setups:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... pen_Setups

Now, there is a crossroads in decision. Playing on CC is very different from playing on MS. We favor closed setups and elaborate setups. The tournament being proposed would be testing CC players on MS rules. I think we should lean towards the tournament being played on CC rules. Not closed games obviously, but with a leaning towards more complex role setups. We could have some experienced mods handcraft open setups for each round based on number of players.

Also, I propose a series of 4 rounds to the tournament: each round has it's own signups so that eliminations are controlled automatically. A win will be weighted based on how difficult it is.

[jak111]

Well, I wouldn't miss the first tourny I've seen in here for the world. Definitely in

[skillfusniper33]

If you guys are struggling to get players why don't you do something like the TPA, and have a variety of mods, and by the looks of it you have people who would be willing to run it. This would also make it on more of a personal level for games, and allow us to keep what we do here, and elaborate, and get interesting games going. But you might want to set it to a range of players, something like 7-15 players or something similar. Most of those games would take around a month, maybe 2 to finish up.

Then you can keep track of how everyone finished, and keep a point total somewhere. Winning, surviving until the end, hosting, and MVP could all be worth certain amount of points, then after so long, or so many games you can declare a winner. I would probably say so many games. But also limit it to hosting only 1 game.

But depending on when it is I would be willing to participate/mod if needed. But their are some more experienced mods that would probably be better to start with.

[jonty125]

If you guys are struggling to get players why don't you do something like the TPA, and have a variety of mods, and by the looks of it you have people who would be willing to run it. This would also make it on more of a personal level for games, and allow us to keep what we do here, and elaborate, and get interesting games going. But you might want to set it to a range of players, something like 7-15 players or something similar. Most of those games would take around a month, maybe 2 to finish up.

Then you can keep track of how everyone finished, and keep a point total somewhere. Winning, surviving until the end, hosting, and MVP could all be worth certain amount of points, then after so long, or so many games you can declare a winner. I would probably say so many games. But also limit it to hosting only 1 game.

But depending on when it is I would be willing to participate/mod if needed. But their are some more experienced mods that would probably be better to start with.

I like this, maybe there could be a standard set of rules for MPAs regarding deadlines and such. Also, a new game every month.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, let's get this topic moving again. Tentative start date: September 4th?

[aage]

I've been reading this topic, and I wonder why you wouldn't just add something like win stats instead of elimination. Depending on the odds of victory, players would receive 'points' for certain achievements (e.g. Town win 1 point < Scum win 2 points < < Lover win 3 points < SK win 4 points, again depending on the odds of winning).

I agree that C9++ and Pick Your Poison are the best setups to use. I would suggest Hard Boiled and Tit for Tat (with a slight adjustment in favour of town in the second one).