jesus

[z19z4]

was three in 1 around before the birth of christ

[antjo]

christians say there is only one god
muslims say there is only one god
jews say there is only one god
.....
i suppose it must all be the same god

[Colossus]

acualy they borrowed it from us

How could they? Was Christianity around before the birth of Christ?

a marked improvement in your spelling as well z19z4 were you...

ROFLMFAO! that's awesome.

[Guilty_Biscuit]

In India we find the doctrine of the divine trinity called "Tri-murti" (Three-forms) consisting of Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva. It is an inseparable unity though three in form. Worshipers are told to worship them as one deity.

The Brahmas also have their trinity. In their trinity, Vajrapani, Manjusri, and Avalokitesvara form a divine union of three gods into one god called "Buddha." The citizens of China and Japan also worship Buddha, but they know him as "Fo." When they worship him they say "Fo, is one god but has three forms."

Sir William Jones says:

"Very respectable natives have assured me, that one or two missionaries have been absurd enough to in their zeal for the conversion of the Gentiles, to urge that the Hindoos were even now almost Christians; because their Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesa (Siva), were no other than the Christian Trinity."

The ancient Egyptians also worshipped a trinity. Their symbol of a wing, a globe, and a serpent is supposed to have stood for the different attributes of their god.

The Greeks also had their trinities. When making their sacrifices to their gods, they would sprinkle holy water on the altar three times, they would then sprinkle the people three times also. Frankincense was then taken with three fingers and strewed upon the alter three times. All of this was done because the oracle had proclaimed that all sacred things ought to be in threes. Remember that the philosophy of these people (The Greeks) is what was primarily responsible for defining the Christian "Trinitarian" nature of God. This was done through the writings of the Greek philosopher Plato regarding his "Logos" ("word"). Further, remember that the Gospels of the Bible were named the "Greek Gospels" for a reason: they were written in their language and based upon their philosophy.

No I didn't type all this myself. Some of it may well be tripe but yes there were trinities before Christianity

[z19z4]

read the book dont all religons lead to God

[Guilty_Biscuit]

christians say there is only one god
muslims say there is only one god
jews say there is only one god
.....
i suppose it must all be the same god

There are a lot of links between them and a lot of reasons to think that.

For a start Jews and Christians do worship the same God but Christians believe Jesus was the messiah - the Jews do not and in fact are still awaiting the messiah.

There are many, many links between Islam and Judaism/Christianity. In fact many Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet. The angel that visited Mohammed and told him to go spread the word of Allah was called... Gabriel (go figure!)... we could go on and on...

All in all, there are a lot of reasons to think that the Children of Abraham should all sit down and work out their differences.

[b.k. barunt]

There are many links between Islam and Judaeism because Islam is a cheap rip off of Judaeism, with a smattering of Christianity - even the syntax is the same as the Bible. Muhammed could see that in the chaotic state that the world was in at the time, the only unifying factor in the whole equation was the catholic church (still eastern and western at the time). In the arab world at the time, each tribe had its own god. Muhammed simply elevated his tribe's god to "the one God" status and created a hybrid religion that pleased the arabs with its poetry. Allah was the god of the Qurash tribe before Muhammed, and there was an idol erected to him in the Kaba designating him as the god of crops. The Canaanites worshipped him as Moloch, or Chemosh, and he is referred to as a devil in the Old Testament.

[Neutrino]

wats ur religon???

In the time it would take to explain just one facet of my religion, a trillion cosmoses would burst into existence and then sink into eternal night.

Someone is being a trifle melodramatic...

[Guilty_Biscuit]

There are many links between Islam and Judaeism because Islam is a cheap rip off of Judaeism, with a smattering of Christianity - even the syntax is the same as the Bible. Muhammed could see that in the chaotic state that the world was in at the time, the only unifying factor in the whole equation was the catholic church (still eastern and western at the time). In the arab world at the time, each tribe had its own god. Muhammed simply elevated his tribe's god to "the one God" status and created a hybrid religion that pleased the arabs with its poetry. Allah was the god of the Qurash tribe before Muhammed, and there was an idol erected to him in the Kaba designating him as the god of crops. The Canaanites worshipped him as Moloch, or Chemosh, and he is referred to as a devil in the Old Testament.

Class, I'd heard that Allah already 'existed' as a God before Islam but didn't know that much detail. Does anyone know what Jadaeism was taken from? Or is that too far back to know?

[Reamus1205]

oooooooooook ur a just so jelous u dont have 1 to comite to

I don't think so. A lot of people have spiritual beliefs that are not represented by an institutional organization. Many people may not be able to fully articulate their beliefs, but everyone has some... even if it IS a complete belief that this physical world and body we have is all there is, and that it's all just a collection of mater and energy.
The fact of the mater is, that religious institutions all over the world are experiencing drops in converts, with the globalization of the world, people's religious and spiritual beliefs are just getting more and more integrated, and with the advances of modern science they are also getting more complex. How do things like the Big Bang, Evolution, and Quantum Theory all enter in to the religious equation?

For example, Imagine a table with jigsaw pieces spread around in what people might consider "a mess." Now imagine that this jigsaw table starts shaking and vibrating. As it does these pieces start to bounce around, and given enough time it is very plausible that some pieces will connect to each other, become one piece, and continue bouncing around until hooking up again. Eventualy it is possible that these pieces all come together to make one complete jigsaw image (say for example with an image of the Mona Lisa on it).
The question one might ask is, "was all of this random chance?" It is understandable to say yes, that this Mona Lisa image sitting on this table is the product of random collisions. However, it would be also understandable to state that no, every motion of those pieces was the direct and predictable result of the motion and force of the table moving.

A greater question then reveals itself... Is the existence of the Mona Lisa chance then, or was there some intelligence with a purpose to create the Mona Lisa?
In the case of the table, the Mona Lisa is in "actual" existence. Meaning it is actualy existing at that moment. However, when the pieces were not together and they were instead scattered all about the table, did the Mona Lisa exist then?
Some might be tempted to say no, but I would like to make a distinction here. I wil contend that the Mona Lisa existed "potentially" when the pieces were scattered about. and when they came together the Mona Lisa existed "actually." However, Da Vinci's Last Supper did not exist potentially. Unless someone changes some of the jigsaw pieces, or makes different color images on each one, there is no possibility of The Last Supper painting coming out the the pieces that made the Mona Lisa.
Does this point to a purpose, or some Intellegent order to the universe? Or not?

Though we can pursue this a heck of a lot further, the point of this examination is to reiterate my initial response... Though the analogy with the table deals with cosmic order and divine intellegence, It has little to do with things like the afterlife, the soul, and many other intagible concepts of metaphysics.
As I said, the initial point is that People's spiritual beliefs are rarely able to be summed up in a couple books of scripture and mythology, and are actually much more complex than any religious institution provides.
Religion and church are good for some people I will admit (it allows some people to focus things they may "feel" but can't articulate). But for many, religions just feel "unsatisfying" in one way or another and never able to help with all issues in that person's life.

Just because someone doesn't choose a religion doesn't mean they are "jealous" of your devotion to a particular one, or that they are naive, or blind. What it most likely means is that what they believe actually IS bigger, or at least not represented, by any particualr religion.

[genius6]

There are many links between Islam and Judaeism because Islam is a cheap rip off of Judaeism, with a smattering of Christianity - even the syntax is the same as the Bible. Muhammed could see that in the chaotic state that the world was in at the time, the only unifying factor in the whole equation was the catholic church (still eastern and western at the time). In the arab world at the time, each tribe had its own god. Muhammed simply elevated his tribe's god to "the one God" status and created a hybrid religion that pleased the arabs with its poetry. Allah was the god of the Qurash tribe before Muhammed, and there was an idol erected to him in the Kaba designating him as the god of crops. The Canaanites worshipped him as Moloch, or Chemosh, and he is referred to as a devil in the Old Testament.

Class, I'd heard that Allah already 'existed' as a God before Islam but didn't know that much detail. Does anyone know what Jadaeism was taken from? Or is that too far back to know?

Judaism is the oldest of the big three monotheistic religions, which means both of the later two "borrowed" heavily from it. Howver I'm sure Judaism in turn borrowed from older religions. I hazard a guess that it is based on an amalgamation of ancient pagan religions, mixed around and stirred up to form yet another "one and only true religion." This has been the case basically forever. Humans needed something to explain what they didn't understand, so they created God. Through the ages, God took on many forms, with monotheistic God(s) naturally being more demanding and controlling (e.g., I am the only true God, don't cross me or I'll throw your ass in hell). Judaism is pretty much the beta model of Christianity and Islam. I could go on about religion for pages, but I'd rather not waste our time. I'm probably not going to convince anyone of anything. Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

[jay_a2j]

Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

Yeah, and we all know atheists are soooo open-minded.

[genius6]

Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

Yeah, and we all know atheists are soooo open-minded.

No I'm not open-minded to religious propaganda.

[unriggable]

Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

Yeah, and we all know atheists are soooo open-minded.

When was the last time any atheist ever attacked somebody because of their lack of religion?

[z19z4]

prove that Judaism was the first. i can prove that christanity was around first becaus it has been sienceman kind was made {not monkes were made}

[Skittles!]

prove that Judaism was the first. i can prove that christanity was around first becaus it has been sienceman kind was made {not monkes were made}

Prove that Judaism was first?

Uhh.. Jesus was partially a Jew. There are stories all through the Old Testament about Jew's.

You need to read your Holy Book, if you don't believe that Judaism was first.

Also, I tell you to look in Genesis, Exodus and the other first few books of the OT.
Moses was BEFORE Jesus, and he saved the Israelites from the Egyptians, right? Israelites are Jews, right?
Yeah.

[unriggable]

prove that Judaism was the first. i can prove that christanity was around first becaus it has been sienceman kind was made {not monkes were made}

Christianity, I don't know if you know this, is named after a 'kindof' important figure who didn't appear until the year 1. I'll let you guess who it was. Besides:

"Christianity began in the 1st century AD as a Jewish sect but quickly spread throughout the Greco-Roman world. Although it was originally persecuted under the Roman empire, it would ultimately become the state religion. In the Middle Ages it spread beyond the old borders of the Empire into Northern Europe and Russia. During the Age of Exploration, Christianity expanded throughout the world; it is the world's largest religion.[1]"

-Wikipedia.org

[z19z4]

ahh yes Judaism may have been 1 of the first 1s but "christanity" was the first one.

[Skittles!]

ahh yes Judaism may have been 1 of the first 1s but "christanity" was the first one.

How so? Where's your proof?

[Guilty_Biscuit]

ahh yes Judaism may have been 1 of the first 1s but "christanity" was the first one.

Hold on z19z4 - what type of Christian are you? Jesus was a Jew, Christians are followers of Jesus. Therefore there were no Christians before Jesus but there were Jews.

[Colossus]

I took a class on the history of world religions in college, and we learned that the general consensus among religious scholars seems to be that Yahweh (the Jewish god) was originally a local tribal god of a nomadic Mesopotamian tribe that migrated to the land of Canaan sometime between 2000 and 1500 B.C.E. Yahweh was probably originally part of a polytheistic tribal religion and was one of a handful of principal gods (including Ba'al). There are arguments for Yahweh having been a sun-god, a mountain-god, or a god-conquerer (sort of a god of war), but these seem to be sketchy from what I've read. Exactly why Yahweh gained dominance as the 'One God' is not well known, but the Bible records enemy nations of Israel as worshiping Baal as well as Moses specifically outlawing the worship of Baal (in the Book of Numbers, the Book of Kings, and Deuteronomy). Baal was apparently a statue-god for whom there is good historical evidence in several ancient (~2000 B.C.E.) nations, so even the Bible supports the idea that Yahweh and Baal were competing deities in early Judaism.

For reference, the latest known existence of Neandertals was approx 10,000 B.C.E., around the same time of the first evidence of agricultural societies developing. The first year of the Jewish calendar is 3760 B.C.E., which is supposedly the year Adam and Eve were created. Sumerian (4000 B.C.E.) and Egyptian (5000 B.C.E.) cultures clearly pre-date this. According to the Jewish calendar, Abraham was born around 1800 B.C.E., Moses around 1400 B.C.E. Historical records put Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt around 1300 B.C.E. Decent timeline agreement between the bible and other historical records seems to only go back about as far as the age of kings (~1000 B.C.E.). So, regardless of the disagreement between historical record and the biblical record, Judaism pre-dates Christianity by at least a thousand years, probably more like 3 or 4 thousand years. To simplify that for z19z4, Judaism is at least twice as old as Christianity, probably 3 times as old.

[Guilty_Biscuit]

Thanks bk, genius and colossus I think I've found out what I'm going to be reading for the next few months. I'm sure there is a lot of educated guess work involved in tracking back the origins of specific religions but I guess I'd like to know more.

[vtmarik]

I took a class on the history of world religions in college, and we learned that the general consensus among religious scholars seems to be that Yahweh (the Jewish god) was originally a local tribal god of a nomadic Mesopotamian tribe that migrated to the land of Canaan sometime between 2000 and 1500 B.C.E. Yahweh was probably originally part of a polytheistic tribal religion and was one of a handful of principal gods (including Ba'al). There are arguments for Yahweh having been a sun-god, a mountain-god, or a god-conquerer (sort of a god of war), but these seem to be sketchy from what I've read. Exactly why Yahweh gained dominance as the 'One God' is not well known, but the Bible records enemy nations of Israel as worshiping Baal as well as Moses specifically outlawing the worship of Baal (in the Book of Numbers, the Book of Kings, and Deuteronomy). Baal was apparently a statue-god for whom there is good historical evidence in several ancient (~2000 B.C.E.) nations, so even the Bible supports the idea that Yahweh and Baal were competing deities in early Judaism.

For reference, the latest known existence of Neandertals was approx 10,000 B.C.E., around the same time of the first evidence of agricultural societies developing. The first year of the Jewish calendar is 3760 B.C.E., which is supposedly the year Adam and Eve were created. Sumerian (4000 B.C.E.) and Egyptian (5000 B.C.E.) cultures clearly pre-date this. According to the Jewish calendar, Abraham was born around 1800 B.C.E., Moses around 1400 B.C.E. Historical records put Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt around 1300 B.C.E. Decent timeline agreement between the bible and other historical records seems to only go back about as far as the age of kings (~1000 B.C.E.). So, regardless of the disagreement between historical record and the biblical record, Judaism pre-dates Christianity by at least a thousand years, probably more like 3 or 4 thousand years. To simplify that for z19z4, Judaism is at least twice as old as Christianity, probably 3 times as old.

Interesting side note: Baal later became one of the demon princes in Hell. How's that for convenient?

[jay_a2j]

Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

Yeah, and we all know atheists are soooo open-minded.

When was the last time any atheist ever attacked somebody because of their lack of religion?

No, no, no. Atheists attack the religious for their faith.



And to the issue of which came first Judaism or Christianity.... They are in reality the same faith.(minus the Jesus factor) Christianity is the Jewish faith in its completeness. Oh and Jesus was around BEFORE 1 AD. (hint... He has always existed)

[vtmarik]

Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

Yeah, and we all know atheists are soooo open-minded.

When was the last time any atheist ever attacked somebody because of their lack of religion?

No, no, no. Atheists attack the religious for their faith.



And to the issue of which came first Judaism or Christianity.... They are in reality the same faith.(minus the Jesus factor) Christianity is the Jewish faith in its completeness. Oh and Jesus was around BEFORE 1 AD. (hint... He has always existed)

Jesus isn't God. The attribution "Son of God" is similar to the attribution of "Mahatma" (which means saint or great soul) to Ghandi. It is based on the perception of his life and teachings. Jesus never healed a single person, he always gave credit to those he healed saying "Your faith has healed you."

Yet people assume that he meant 'faith in me' or 'faith in God.'

Remember, when you make assumptions, you make an ass out of you and umption. [All credit to Samuel L. Jackson, for stealing his line.]


Oh, on a side note, regardless of his spiritual existence, he didn't corporeally exist. The schism between the already complete Judaism and the "Judaism, Now with Extra Jesus" that we now know as Christianity occurred around 70AD.