Batman : Arkham City [Day 4] And we're back

[betiko]

ok I was reading this and before seeing droz's post I really had decided to unvote vote spiesr. I really don't think it's normal the way he plays and just jumps so agressively on any small detail as if they all were major scumslips or whatever. It feels like he is really trying too hard. I've been on him on day one, and my suspicions haven't gone down.

[ghostly447]

unvote if needed. For once, I dont think spiesr is the one to be voted for, though on paper that did look very good. I am sort of interested in this case against gillipig. I find it strange that he keeps saying stuff about a mafia assassin. It was already established that mafia are batman and some sort of good group that help him, but could gillipig not be an SK? He is so very convincing me he is. Why? Because he keeps trying to say stuff about a mafia assassin and how the mafia must have gotten stopped from killing, when in all reality we all know mafia get 1 kill a night, and an SK would be the only one to get blocked, etc if that were the case. Vote Gillipig

[ghostly447]

unvote if needed. For once, I dont think spiesr is the one to be voted for, though on paper that did look very good. I am sort of interested in this case against gillipig. I find it strange that he keeps saying stuff about a mafia assassin. It was already established that mafia are batman and some sort of good group that help him, but could gillipig not be an SK? He is so very convincing me he is. Why? Because he keeps trying to say stuff about a mafia assassin and how the mafia must have gotten stopped from killing, when in all reality we all know mafia get 1 kill a night, and an SK would be the only one to get blocked, etc if that were the case. Vote Gillipig

[gregwolf121]

yeah internet is working again. so personally i don't see any real major leads yet, though DRoZ has an arguement that might turn something up, also gillipig where did you get your logical deductions from, you say that what you say is logical, i do agree that it is likely that there are more killers out there than the regular mafia night kill, but why bring it up, i do not see your reasoning behind this. but it does seem as if you have more knowledge than hey there might be one or you wouldn't have brought it up. so vote gillipig

[Mr. Squirrel]

I'd like to see a vote count before I post my opinions on gillipig or spiesr.

[betiko]

I can b wrong, but the thing with the gilipig case is that it's aparently his first mafia game; if it was anyone else i would see it as scummy, but in this case I just see a bad read from him... and because we were a few to call him out as he wasn't participating..

[jonty125]

I can b wrong, but the thing with the gilipig case is that it's aparently his first mafia game;

I think he's a returning veteran. Anyhow, I do see where people are coming from with Gillipig sounding like he knows something about what happened last night. I'll vote him after we get a VC

I'd like to see a vote count before I post my opinions on gillipig or spiesr.

Why are you withholding your opinion? Withholding your vote, while waiting for a VC is perfectly valid; but why your opinions?

[spiesr]

3) lashes out at vodean after voting against him, essentially doing the exact same thing as his own vote on betiko.

Let's analyze the events of this point a little more closely.
Here is my initial vote on Betiko.

Spoiler

my my, defensive aren't you?
You make it sound like an either/or senario, "shut up and talk about unrelated subjects!"
And yet, you completely gloss over my actual critique, I asked, how does it help to list potential town names?

This early on day 1 this is good enough for me. Vote betiko.

And here is vodean's vote on me.

Spoiler

my my, defensive aren't you?
You make it sound like an either/or senario, "shut up and talk about unrelated subjects!"
And yet, you completely gloss over my actual critique, I asked, how does it help to list potential town names?

This early on day 1 this is good enough for me. Vote betiko.

this post is stupid enough for me spiesr. unvote vote spiesr. You feel like pressuring me, I think you sound like a good client with all the mod ass licking and the quick stuborn bandwagoning.

I had a specific, albeit not explicitly mentioned, goal in mind when I joined the bandwagon on you. That was to ensure to the the game quickly made the full transition to serious discussion and that we had something to talk about. As Shaggy just said, we only have four days left until the deadline. In order to achieve a "good" lynch today we need the discussion to start as soon as it can. (Especially if we want to option of pursuing someone other than the first candidate we find to remain viable.) As such I decided to move on the first halfway serious case anyone comes up with, either supporting and pushing it forward, or attacking it's maker. /'s thing on you came up first, I decided that hitting you looked more favorable than the reverse. It is of course a shit case, but you know Day 1, however it seems to be accomplishing my goal and things are starting to move forward. If you have a compelling argument for how this makes me scummy please present it as soon a possible so that we may have more things to work with. As it stands your weak OMGUSesc reaction isn't really helping you much in my view.

your earlier post stood out to me before, but now i think its enough for a vote. unvote vote spi

Now yes, on first glance these are basically equivalent acts. However, the key point here is that I did eventually give a proper explanation for my reasoning behind that vote, as you can see in the post Vodean quoted. (You could argue that my reason was essentially no reason, but I did explain it.)
Here is the post where you say that I "lash out" against vodean.

Spoiler

your earlier post stood out to me before, but now i think its enough for a vote. unvote vote spi

Do you want to elaborate and actually give a reason for why you think I deserve a vote, or are you to afraid that whatever you say will just be used against you later? Because so far you haven't said anything meaningful the whole game.

Note that what I am doing in this post is asking that Vodean elaborate and give us the explanation for his vote. (Just as I had done when betiko asked.) Now, I don't think this was an unreasonable thing for me to do, but of course you can make your own conclusions.

Anyhow I have to head to class here quick, so I am going to stop this post here, if anyone wants me to discuss some of the other points DRoZ is raising just let me know.

[strike wolf]

I can b wrong, but the thing with the gilipig case is that it's aparently his first mafia game;

I think he's a returning veteran. Anyhow, I do see where people are coming from with Gillipig sounding like he knows something about what happened last night. I'll vote him after we get a VC

I don't think he ever got to the point where he was a veteran but he did play a few games before this (I want to say he was in one of my mafias last year but either got killed or replaced early on). Agreement on the knowing something. He's been pushing Mafia assassin very thoroughly and while won't out right say we should force a claim pushing the fact that nag shouldn't be completely trusted when he gets the chance. There is the chance for alternative kill roles in this game but we cannot assume that they are there in this game unless we see actual evidence. It's also unsafe to assume that there are going to be an extra kill role for the mafia is set up. By that logic just about every town member could be a vig because they have goons carrying guns and weapons that can kill people.

I'd like to see a vote count before I post my opinions on gillipig or spiesr.

Why are you withholding your opinion? Withholding your vote, while waiting for a VC is perfectly valid; but why your opinions?

Again agreeing with this. I don't see the harm in posting an opinion on the matter. As far as Spiesr, I do think that the case against him has gotten better and I was a bit skeptical about him stating we should all confirm that we did not busdrive Betiko with anyone last night but I think that there is a difference between his vote where he said that he was basically following /'s logic (which was an ok starter case for day 1) and Vodean's vote who never stated any reasons for his vote whatsoever.

[Gillipig]

Just to clarify my mafia background:
A month ago I played my first mafia game on epicmafia.com. Since then I've played around a hundred speedy ones. I'm not a newbie but neither am I experienced. First time I'm playing a snail game though . Actually I did sign up for a game that I ended up not participating in on this site.
You may not understand my logic, and it may be that it's not appliable to this situation. I don't know how you usually structate mafia games on this site, but if I was playing a 21 player game were I normally play mafia games, I'd expect there to be a mafia assassin or killer. I was just trying to contribute to town really. At the very least you should realize that if I was a character like that myself, I wouldn't open my mouth on the matter. That's just common sense! The reason I started talking about it at all was that I fosed Nagerous and tried to find out what type of maf he could be. I don't want to force him to say his role, I just want to make my suspicion known.

[vodean]

as for gillipig, i think he is used to speed games which work a little differently. often they are smaller and have multiple SKs rather than an organized mafia. i dont think he is scummy, but rather is just new to our system.
spiesr, on the other hand, has been jumpy and defensive, with the aid of /, and has consistently attacked people and started BWs (as well as jumping on them). he is trying to lead town, but i think he is misleading us. i voted him yesterday for standing out as scum for a number of reasons on a number of occasions, and now im going to vote him again. unvote(if necessary) vote spiesr

[spiesr]

Considering how spiesr does not seem to lead the charge on anyone, only justifying bandwagon jumps as well as retaliatory votes and accusations, combined with what could be a slight alliance with /, I feel somewhat justified with VOTE spiesr, considering everyone seems content with nag's refusal, I do not see anyone else to go with at the moment.

as for gillipig, i think he is used to speed games which work a little differently. often they are smaller and have multiple SKs rather than an organized mafia. i dont think he is scummy, but rather is just new to our system.
spiesr, on the other hand, has been jumpy and defensive, with the aid of /, and has consistently attacked people and started BWs (as well as jumping on them). he is trying to lead town, but i think he is misleading us. i voted him yesterday for standing out as scum for a number of reasons on a number of occasions, and now im going to vote him again. unvote(if necessary) vote spiesr

Come on now, you guys can't have it both ways. (Can you?)
Anyhow, here is my best guess at the current vote count for those who want that.

betiko (2)- edocsil, jak111
new guy1 (1)- jonty125
spiesr (3)- DRoZ, betiko, Vodean
gillipig (5)- Nendreel, LSU Josh, spiesr, ghostly447, gregwolf121

Not Voting (9)- Nagerous, cm5, strike wolf, gillipig, new guy1, Mr. Squirrel, ShaggyDan, Illiad, /

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is currently not set.

[DRoZ]

Come on now, you guys can't have it both ways. (Can you?)

Come on now, two different opinions from two different players....

[/]

as for gillipig, i think he is used to speed games which work a little differently. often they are smaller and have multiple SKs rather than an organized mafia. i dont think he is scummy, but rather is just new to our system.
spiesr, on the other hand, has been jumpy and defensive, with the aid of /, and has consistently attacked people and started BWs (as well as jumping on them). he is trying to lead town, but i think he is misleading us. i voted him yesterday for standing out as scum for a number of reasons on a number of occasions, and now im going to vote him again. unvote(if necessary) vote spiesr

hm, I suppose what you and droz say about spiesr backing me could be true, buddying, or "great minds think alike"? I wouldn't know, but I will note it.
The part bolded seems to be a lie though, I'm afraid you aren't making sense, I have looked back, and including this one, you have made six game related posts so far, previously two of them being about spiesr,
this

your earlier post stood out to me before, but now i think its enough for a vote. unvote vote spi

and this follow up to explain it

I dont remember exactly what i saw, and in truth, i dont fully see it any more. but it was to do with jumping on whatever BW that came along, and you also do what you are accusing me of, voting without reason -- except worse. you quote another person, jump on their BW, and give no reason.

I suspect that edoc and betiko are actually talking about a currently active game and are just trying to cover their asses. I was in matrix mafia as a VT, not 3rd party. but you all seemed rather aggressive. betiko does not ALWAYS play aggressively, however, as he seems to want us to think, just in games where he is anti-town and two currently active ones. here i'd say they are both scum or town (or 3rd party) and are trying to get on the same page. they might be masoned. FOS betiko, but i think my vote stays on spiesr

you keep pointing back to earlier non specific incidences, but have so far not backed them up with actual evidence, I feel that you are for some reason distancing yourself from spiesr, but are completely unable to come up with a logical way to do so.
FOS Vodean until he can fully explain his reasons for voting, and preferably quote an actual relevant post while doing so.

For the spiesr case itself, I personally thought his actions and reasons have been logical enough so far, but they are quite similar to my own thoughts (not accusing of plagiarism, even a few conclusions I have not specifically voiced are shared), so I'm probably biased, I think he's a smart enough player that there wouldn't be much of a tell even if he is scum, so the few points of interest (bandwagoning, connection) might be something to cast a gaze on.

As for the Gillipig case, I would ask how often you check on the game to have had 5 or 6 page of content to read each time?
I've been gone for three days and it's only been about three pages of new content to go through, I suppose I can't speak for previous days though, I can't quite remember the exact rate of posting.

[jonty125]

i voted him yesterday for standing out as scum for a number of reasons on a number of occasions, and now im going to vote him again. unvote(if necessary) vote spiesr

Basically, what / said, why would you vote him twice. You made your stance clear with the first vote, and voting him again is not going to make any difference.

[lord voldemort]

Vote Count 2.2

betiko (2)- edocsil, jak111
new guy1 (1)- jonty125
spiesr (3)- , DRoZ, betiko, Vodean
Gillipig (4)- Nendreel, LSU Josh, spiesr, ghostly447
jonty125 (1)- gregwolf121


Not Voting (10)- Nagerous, cm5, strike wolf, gillipig, Mr. Squirrel, ShaggyDan, Illiad, new guy1, /



Prods going out tonight as well. I think Illiad especially...anyone else specifically??
With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is currently not set

[crazymilkshake5]

might want to think about NG1 for a prod

[gregwolf121]

Vote Count 2.2

betiko (2)- edocsil, jak111
new guy1 (1)- jonty125
spiesr (3)- , DRoZ, betiko, Vodean
Gillipig (4)- Nendreel, LSU Josh, spiesr, ghostly447
jonty125 (1)- gregwolf121


Not Voting (10)- Nagerous, cm5, strike wolf, gillipig, Mr. Squirrel, ShaggyDan, Illiad, new guy1, /

yeah internet is working again. so personally i don't see any real major leads yet, though DRoZ has an arguement that might turn something up, also gillipig where did you get your logical deductions from, you say that what you say is logical, i do agree that it is likely that there are more killers out there than the regular mafia night kill, but why bring it up, i do not see your reasoning behind this. but it does seem as if you have more knowledge than hey there might be one or you wouldn't have brought it up. so vote gillipig

my vote was on gillipig

[new guy1]

Sorry I dropped off of the face of the Earth. I dont need a prod, just havent had much to say about any recent events.

[lord voldemort]

Vote Count 2.2

betiko (2)- edocsil, jak111
new guy1 (1)- jonty125
spiesr (3)- , DRoZ, betiko, Vodean
Gillipig (4)- Nendreel, LSU Josh, spiesr, ghostly447
jonty125 (1)- gregwolf121


Not Voting (10)- Nagerous, cm5, strike wolf, gillipig, Mr. Squirrel, ShaggyDan, Illiad, new guy1, /

yeah internet is working again. so personally i don't see any real major leads yet, though DRoZ has an arguement that might turn something up, also gillipig where did you get your logical deductions from, you say that what you say is logical, i do agree that it is likely that there are more killers out there than the regular mafia night kill, but why bring it up, i do not see your reasoning behind this. but it does seem as if you have more knowledge than hey there might be one or you wouldn't have brought it up. so vote gillipig

my vote was on gillipig

sure if you voted properly it might be

[spiesr]

Come on now, you guys can't have it both ways. (Can you?)

Come on now, two different opinions from two different players....

Well yes, but my point was that the seeming contradiction between the two opinions raises questions about whether they can both be valid at the same time.

[gregwolf121]

Vote Count 2.2

betiko (2)- edocsil, jak111
new guy1 (1)- jonty125
spiesr (3)- , DRoZ, betiko, Vodean
Gillipig (4)- Nendreel, LSU Josh, spiesr, ghostly447
jonty125 (1)- gregwolf121


Not Voting (10)- Nagerous, cm5, strike wolf, gillipig, Mr. Squirrel, ShaggyDan, Illiad, new guy1, /

yeah internet is working again. so personally i don't see any real major leads yet, though DRoZ has an arguement that might turn something up, also gillipig where did you get your logical deductions from, you say that what you say is logical, i do agree that it is likely that there are more killers out there than the regular mafia night kill, but why bring it up, i do not see your reasoning behind this. but it does seem as if you have more knowledge than hey there might be one or you wouldn't have brought it up. so vote gillipig

my vote was on gillipig

sure if you voted properly it might be

how did i vote wrong

[edocsil]

needs to be bold too.

[betiko]

i hope lovo was kidding... anyway he's at l-6 then. if votes are going to continue piling up on gillipig I don't mind adding mine cause this is stalling...

[spiesr]

how did i vote wrong

Apparently Lovo was serious about bold & blue, as well as unvotes being required.

5. All ‘votes’ and ‘unvotes’ must be in Bold and Blue. If they are not, they will not be tallied. (I.E. Vote: Nagerous). You must first unvote and then vote to change your vote from someone.