Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[samgrossy]

EBWOP

CMS case is on page 13, presented by /

[Victor Sullivan]

Here's a test for you: vote vodean

I'm caught up, I think, but I don't have much to add. Only that I find vodean suspicious and feel jak and VioIet are likely town.

-Sully

[/]

Iliad has been rather silent, now we have victor claiming a stolen vote as well
I ask again
ILIAD, WHO IS THE SAINT ELISABETH YOU CLAIM AS YOUR ROLE?
I believe he was also asked
ILIAD, WAS YOUR NORMAL VOTE STOLEN OR YOUR DOUBLE?
Not trying to yell or anything btw, just caps so they stand out.

Also, the thing about edoc's games is that, from my experience, fake-claims ARE given, at least they were in Norse Pantheon, before the end of day one, supposedly they were claims that weren't very good (search in wiki didn't turn up major roles, mafia from earlier games can compare if this is on purpose, or an exception), however, they did come with fake ROLES which were quite informative (I don't remember the exact claims, but we received as many as there were members of the mafia, things like "Vili, town watcher", so we knew there was no watcher in the game). The fake I put out at the end "Tyr, vengeful townie" was not one of the fakes given, since the claims seemed weak, just something I saw fitting as Tyr kills and is killed by Garm in the myths.

So you should expect the mafia, at the very least, know the general flavor of roles in the game, thus claiming something utterly impossible is somewhat unlikely.

Edoc, could you please prod Iliad?
Also, could we have a votecount?

[safariguy5]

So there's 2 vote stealers? o.0
Are you sure your extra vote was stolen, Iliad? You could've been roleblocked, would make more sense.

I was under the impression that roleblocking wouldn't affect the ability of the doublevoter because the doublevote ability is intrinsic like a mason or a lover and not a night action.

Vote stealer maybe, but I don't think doublevoter would lose a vote due to roleblock.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

So there's 2 vote stealers? o.0
Are you sure your extra vote was stolen, Iliad? You could've been roleblocked, would make more sense.

I was under the impression that roleblocking wouldn't affect the ability of the doublevoter because the doublevote ability is intrinsic like a mason or a lover and not a night action.

Vote stealer maybe, but I don't think doublevoter would lose a vote due to roleblock.

I also have never heard of a roleblocker being able to stop a double voter.

[vodean]

could we have a voteblocker and a vote stealer? and VS, im deeply touched that you feel im worthy of an attempt at a vote

[aage]

So there's 2 vote stealers? o.0
Are you sure your extra vote was stolen, Iliad? You could've been roleblocked, would make more sense.

I was under the impression that roleblocking wouldn't affect the ability of the doublevoter because the doublevote ability is intrinsic like a mason or a lover and not a night action.

Vote stealer maybe, but I don't think doublevoter would lose a vote due to roleblock.

Since it's an ??? vote, I expect it to be an active ability (i.e. the doublevoter sends a pm to the mod to use it, which lovers don't do). Since I never played double voter I haven't a clue whether they usually can be blocked or not, I assumed they could be. If I'm wrong there, as you say, there should be two vote stealers or some kind of copycat role.

[F1fth]

So far if I've not missed anything, it seems we've had claims in some form or another from Iliad (Saint Elisabeth, human saint), Jak (William of York, angel? saint), Violet (human saint), vodean (human), and jgordon (not human?). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, which I very well may be since you people are so vague . I feel like we can all agree that angels could be called "town" in this game and humans may be aligned with either faction. After that, agreement stops and speculation begins.

It's curious the fact that we supposedly had two votes stolen last night. It's unusual though not unlikely in a game this large. It could be that there's one town and one scum vote stealer, or the roleblocker explanation doesn't sound altogether unreasonable either. Still, I don't think we should let Iliad off without testing his stolen vote since Victor was so kind as to oblige.

My suspicion mainly lies with the people who have not been so open about themselves, i.e. none of the people who've claimed so far (except for jgordan who unintentionally indicated his alignment). I'm willing to bet we're more likely to find scum in those engaging in fruitless metagaming WIFOM talk for the last two pages.

I will FOS aage, the main offender in continuing these discussions. I'm still waiting to hear from certain someones before I cast any vote.

[VioIet]

first off sorry for inactivity internet is nonexistant in my apartment, but terminology wise i believe saint means holy, thus good, and ill need time to catch up so i won't vote, and yeah

I agree with this.

And if Victor and Illiad are both referring to their ??? vote being stolen, there is no way that we can confirm this.

[Victor Sullivan]

Except I'm not a doublevoter.

-Sully

[samgrossy]

Oh snappers! I must apologize, I forgot about this; I was busy over the end of last week and the weekend. Not that it particularly matters, since my vote was stolen anyway

I'll try to catch up. Seems to me I was taking heat yesterday, so I'll try to be quick-like! Thursdays I'm booked, but I'll see if I can't post something meaningful by Friday.

-Sully

I guess that ends that line of questioning. Sully never claimed double voter. He only claimed his vote was stolen. Guess that implies a vote stealer role? What the heck are the mechanics of that role?

[jonty125]

He only claimed his vote was stolen. Guess that implies a vote stealer role? What the heck are the mechanics of that role?

Well actually I think jak claimed he stole it.

[vodean]

He only claimed his vote was stolen. Guess that implies a vote stealer role? What the heck are the mechanics of that role?

Well actually I think jak claimed he stole it.

and isnt vote stealer a generally scummy role? hence furthering the case against jak?

[Victor Sullivan]

He only claimed his vote was stolen. Guess that implies a vote stealer role? What the heck are the mechanics of that role?

Well actually I think jak claimed he stole it.

and isnt vote stealer a generally scummy role? hence furthering the case against jak?

No. I'd say it's usually town. Easier to balance that way, as it's not a particularly strong role for town.

-Sully

[safariguy5]

He only claimed his vote was stolen. Guess that implies a vote stealer role? What the heck are the mechanics of that role?

Well actually I think jak claimed he stole it.

and isnt vote stealer a generally scummy role? hence furthering the case against jak?

In the hands of mafia, it's almost as powerful as doublevoter. In general, while it's possible for mafia to have vote manipulation roles, it does make it harder to balance as mafia can endgame prematurely especially if there are no hints as to the size of the mafia.

[aage]

He only claimed his vote was stolen. Guess that implies a vote stealer role? What the heck are the mechanics of that role?

Well actually I think jak claimed he stole it.

and isnt vote stealer a generally scummy role? hence furthering the case against jak?

In the hands of mafia, it's almost as powerful as doublevoter. In general, while it's possible for mafia to have vote manipulation roles, it does make it harder to balance as mafia can endgame prematurely especially if there are no hints as to the size of the mafia.

Actually it's stronger than a doublevoter since a) you gain a vote and b) town loses a vote. I'd say it's a town role. Doublevoter, votestealer and voteblocker in the same team seems off though, so i'd say at least one of them is non-town aligned.

[strike wolf]

I have to agree that one of the vote stealer roles is non-town. Whether that means 3rd party or scum I'm not completely sure. Honestly we don't really know much about how this game is set up yet.

[jak111]

My guess is that Mr. Squirrel is also a human who has investigative powers. I believe that Jak is human also. The reason he probably said angel, is because his role pm may say something like, "you win when all demon's have been eliminated." That is pure speculation- but to me, it seems that's the only reason why he would say angel.

This would be correct, William of York sounded like some Angel so I said Angel, plus it doesn't mention anything besides killing the demons. Though if I am human and I am town, it makes me question what the angels are. My original thought was I was an angel, humans were third party and demons were mafia, but as this progresses and I am human apparently I question whether the angels are town or if they are the ones who are third party.

Unvote

I will say that I think the idea of a cult is rather farfetched. Humans recruiting Angels/Demons/Both?

Perhaps I can shed some light on to how there may be cult in the game. This game is based around some form of christianity one form or another, so a "non believer" or another religion could be recruiting people to their side. Take me in real life for example, I don't believe in any religion and if people listen I'll tell them up front what I think about it, hence someone preaching to unfollow chrisitanity making a cult likely in this game not a far fetched idea as Safari may have you believe, in fact, it almost fits into it perfectly. What does the cult follow or not follow? I don't know, but a cult is definitely a possibility.

Religion and Cults go hand and hand. If one only has a few members in it it is known as a "cult" but if one has many members it is a "religion". Sorry for those it offends but if I do not bring this to light we may let a cult slip under our grasp just because someone wants to hold onto a belief in a game.

Ebwop: I'd suggest testing this. Starting with Victor's vote.

Hmm, I'm sure jak said this earlier but it must have got lost in this saint debate. I do agree the two vote stealers are probably not the same alignment.

I did mention it

Though I think I have some information from last night as to who is what... Victor, make a vote, Iiliad, use both your votes, you'll both retract them once they are tested but for now I want to see who is missing their vote. Iiliad said he is, but Victor is the one who should be missing his, so I want to see if there's someone lying or if there's another person who can affect votes.

Funny how it was skipped and people act like it's a new idea
I even mention to find out if there's a SECOND person who can effect votes, if anyone cares to read that.



From what I am gathering + the link I quoted a few pages back all point to this new theory.

Demons = mafia (obviously)
Humans = Town AND Cult (there may be a cult amongst us)
Angels = Town AND Mafia (The quote mentioned that some angels followed Satan and hence they were Demons)

Any counters? Any angel claims to have a comparison? Any demons who want to add to this?

Fastposted by StrikeWolf

Why are we assuming there's two vote stealers atm? We haven't even tested to see if Illiad/VS is missing a/their vote. Do you got insider information we should know about about what's happening to Illiad's claim of missing a vote?

[strike wolf]

I admit it slipped my mind that victors had not been confirmed yet. as for illiad, he proved his role yesterday so innocent until proven guilty on that end.

[aage]

Why are we assuming there's two vote stealers atm? We haven't even tested to see if Illiad/VS is missing a/their vote. Do you got insider information we should know about about what's happening to Illiad's claim of missing a vote?

We're not. There's you, who claims to block votes, so that would be a vote blocker. Iliad stated that his vote was "stolen", so I assume that someone did steal his vote. Whether his vote was not stolen but blocked would just be a poor phrasing on Iliad's part, but still renders the point I made valid. Two voteblockers in one team plus a doublevoter is too much.

[safariguy5]

I suppose we cannot discount the possibility of a cult, but given the dichotomy of heaven and hell, I would figure that any recruiting would be done by either the angel or demon (or both) faction with regards to recruiting humans to their side. Something like the coming of the Rapture or something.

I mean, I suppose there could be some atheistic cult faction or something, but I find it unlikely that we have another religion recruiting.

As for the idea of angels being mafia, I would think they would be classified as fallen angels.

[jak111]

Why are we assuming there's two vote stealers atm? We haven't even tested to see if Illiad/VS is missing a/their vote. Do you got insider information we should know about about what's happening to Illiad's claim of missing a vote?

We're not. There's you, who claims to block votes, so that would be a vote blocker. Iliad stated that his vote was "stolen", so I assume that someone did steal his vote. Whether his vote was not stolen but blocked would just be a poor phrasing on Iliad's part, but still renders the point I made valid. Two voteblockers in one team plus a doublevoter is too much.

~Never claimed to block votes~ re-read.

As for the idea of angels being mafia, I would think they would be classified as fallen angels.

Still, can't rule out any possibilities until we see a dead 3rd party and a dead mafia to better grasp who's who.

[edocsil]

Vote Count

Jak (5) ~ shaggy, pcm, aage, cm5, vodean
Vodean (3) ~ lsu, jonty, saf

25 alive 13 to lynch

Chap and Nag have not posted yet this week, they have been prodded and will be replaced in 24 hours as I mentioned in the last scene. Due to the likely replacements I am going to push back the deadline a touch. Deadline will be 10 days from now.

[chapcrap]

Ok, I just caught up on 10 pages. Sorry for the inactivity.

I admit it slipped my mind that victors had not been confirmed yet. as for illiad, he proved his role yesterday so innocent until proven guilty on that end.

I just want to say that this is not confirmed. I thought that immediately and now it's an actual issue. All that was confirmed was that there was a secret vote put on Victor. It wasn't confirmed that it was Iliad. It also wasn't confirmed that he even has double votes. At the time of the ??? vote, Iliad was not voting anyone else, so there was no way to know if he's telling the truth or not.

Next, if you do believe Iliad, people said that he probably was town because it would make mafia too strong. Well, now that there is a at least one vote stealer/blocker, I think we can not assume that Iliad is town at all. He can be any faction.

As far as mechanics of the game, I don't really care at this point. It's all just speculation and conjecture for no reason. We have nothing to go on. It's not going to help us catch scum today. So, I won't be participating in that discussion.

The one other thing that I wanted to comment on was when Mr. S outed his investigation of Vio, someone immediately asked him to full role claim. I thought that was pretty scummy. I'll go back and look who.... It was jonty.

Also, jak, you're in luck, Jesus accepts anyone!

[chapcrap]

Ok, I just caught up on 10 pages. Sorry for the inactivity.

I admit it slipped my mind that victors had not been confirmed yet. as for illiad, he proved his role yesterday so innocent until proven guilty on that end.

I just want to say that this is not confirmed. I thought that immediately and now it's an actual issue. All that was confirmed was that there was a secret vote put on Victor. It wasn't confirmed that it was Iliad. It also wasn't confirmed that he even has double votes. At the time of the ??? vote, Iliad was not voting anyone else, so there was no way to know if he's telling the truth or not.

Next, if you do believe Iliad, people said that he probably was town because it would make mafia too strong. Well, now that there is a at least one vote stealer/blocker, I think we can not assume that Iliad is town at all. He can be any faction.

As far as mechanics of the game, I don't really care at this point. It's all just speculation and conjecture for no reason. We have nothing to go on. It's not going to help us catch scum today. So, I won't be participating in that discussion.

The one other thing that I wanted to comment on was when Mr. S outed his investigation of Vio, someone immediately asked him to full role claim. I thought that was pretty scummy. I'll go back and look who.... It was jonty.

Also, jak, you're in luck, Jesus accepts anyone!

EBWOP: FASTPOSTED by the man! I don't need replaced!!