Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[aage]

Well, in case things go sour for me, I did want to get out a little information I learned last night. I was hoping to hear more about any night activities from sam, but since it doesn't seem that he wishes to say anything, I will say this... I am a watcher, Augustine of Canterbury, last night I watched aage and he was targeted by samgrossy. Earlier today, sam spoke on Jak's vote on aage, perhaps the targeting was a means to set Jak up today, perhaps not. I feared releasing this, should it be that sam's role was a productive one, but lynchings can go quickly so I am putting that out there. Either way it is information. I would also like to point out a few things about myself, back long ago when I played mafia on here, I tended to be a bit post happy, I think this brought a lot of attention my way and I would wind up lynched or night killed early on, which led to quite a bit of frustration and as such, I now try to only make substantial posts, or short posts as a means of clarifying.

I will verify that I did visit Aage last night.

What I am confusesd about is that I never heard you ask about my night actions. If you did, it was only in the last day and you didn't give me enough time to respond... although I don't think you ever asked. So why out that I visited Aage, without first coming right out and asking me in the thread about my night action. While I don't think this is necessarily scummy, it just doesn't make any sense.

If you would have asked in thread "Sam, did you visit anyone last night" you just tell me that I did visit someone. This does two things. First, it gives you no info as to whether I tell the truth or not. Next, it gives scum a two targets tonight, a watcher and me. Both of us have non vanilla roles.

My guess is that he panicked. I'm not aware of any negative effects that your visit has caused, so it seems okay. I'm curious to what you did do, but I'm not expecting you to tell me.

[aage]

I was hoping to hear you discuss, not that I asked, I was just hoping you may have something to say from your night action without me drawing attention to it, as I said before, I did not want to out anything. The only reason I bring it up now is an attempt to ease some of the growing pressure on me. Had I not, then surely I would have remained an attractive lynch option, waiting until votes have built up would have just made my response seem desperate.

You were hoping to learn something without drawing attention to it... by drawing attention to it? How does that work?

[DRoZ]

I was responding to sams confusion about my not asking him about visiting you. I was hoping that he or you would reference whatever happened last night without my bringing it up. As there seems to be sentiment against me I decided to speak on what I knew. I used past tense to convey my mindset prior to the votes against me. I apologize for not being clear enough for you to follow.

To simplify... 1) I watched you last night and saw that sam targeted you. 2) At the start of the day I followed along hoping one of you would reveal what exchange happened between you last night.(This is the point that I had decided not to draw attention to the targeting) 3) A few people began to question my alignment, so I said what I knew, as I said before, waiting until further animosity built would have made it much more difficult to clear myself. (This is the point I decided to draw attention to the targeting) I am not sure how to make that any more clear.

[vodean]

I was responding to sams confusion about my not asking him about visiting you. I was hoping that he or you would reference whatever happened last night without my bringing it up. As there seems to be sentiment against me I decided to speak on what I knew. I used past tense to convey my mindset prior to the votes against me. I apologize for not being clear enough for you to follow.

To simplify... 1) I watched you last night and saw that sam targeted you. 2) At the start of the day I followed along hoping one of you would reveal what exchange happened between you last night.(This is the point that I had decided not to draw attention to the targeting) 3) A few people began to question my alignment, so I said what I knew, as I said before, waiting until further animosity built would have made it much more difficult to clear myself. (This is the point I decided to draw attention to the targeting) I am not sure how to make that any more clear.

or you are scum, with info about a fellow scum that you are using to try and make us forget about you before we BW you too much

[aage]

lmfao... Okay Vodean, your last three posts.

sounds like it should work out well.

there wasn't (nor isn't) even a plan yet, so I find it interesting that you already know that it will work out.

thats all well and good, but there were FOUR, not THREE anti-town on the BW. so even if you lynch all of us, and we ALL flip anti-town, you are still missing someone... and by then scum has an advantage anyway from the night, since we wont all flip anti-town, and even if we do, there will be some third parties.

Aside from the fact that f1fth said 'those people are most likely to be mafia' rather than 'these are all the scum in the group guys', this is a useless remark.

or you are scum, with info about a fellow scum that you are using to try and make us forget about you before we BW you too much

Yeah... who are you implying to be scum here, me or Sam? If Sam, that'd be very poor teamplay. If me, he could have never known who targeted me especially since I wasn't even aware of it.
FoS.

[jonty125]

I'm going to vote DroZ for his random claim. And also FOS jak, for removing Vio on his list based on how she worded her post, with an element of gut instinct.

[jgordon1111]

I'm going to vote DroZ for his random claim. And also FOS jak, for removing Vio on his list based on how she worded her post, with an element of gut instinct.

Your kidding right? Random claim? Can you clarify what you mean by a random claim? Are you playing tiddlywinks and we dont know it? Are you drunk?
OR ARE YOU SKIMMING and throwing random stupid crap into the mix? Please Explain in detail why you have made that ridiculous vote.

[jonty125]

I'm going to vote DroZ for his random claim. And also FOS jak, for removing Vio on his list based on how she worded her post, with an element of gut instinct.

Your kidding right? Random claim? Can you clarify what you mean by a random claim? Are you playing tiddlywinks and we dont know it? Are you drunk?
OR ARE YOU SKIMMING and throwing random stupid crap into the mix? Please Explain in detail why you have made that ridiculous vote.

Well, he was nowhere near L-2 and he also didn't give much in his defence.

[vodean]

lmfao... Okay Vodean, your last three posts.

sounds like it should work out well.

there wasn't (nor isn't) even a plan yet, so I find it interesting that you already know that it will work out.

thats all well and good, but there were FOUR, not THREE anti-town on the BW. so even if you lynch all of us, and we ALL flip anti-town, you are still missing someone... and by then scum has an advantage anyway from the night, since we wont all flip anti-town, and even if we do, there will be some third parties.

Aside from the fact that f1fth said 'those people are most likely to be mafia' rather than 'these are all the scum in the group guys', this is a useless remark.

or you are scum, with info about a fellow scum that you are using to try and make us forget about you before we BW you too much

Yeah... who are you implying to be scum here, me or Sam? If Sam, that'd be very poor teamplay. If me, he could have never known who targeted me especially since I wasn't even aware of it.
FoS.

you are clearly skimming really badly... that was obviously directed to Droz, and the first one was right after someone posted a plan. The second one was a useless rebuttal to a useless argument.

[jgordon1111]

I'm going to vote DroZ for his random claim. And also FOS jak, for removing Vio on his list based on how she worded her post, with an element of gut instinct.

Your kidding right? Random claim? Can you clarify what you mean by a random claim? Are you playing tiddlywinks and we dont know it? Are you drunk?
OR ARE YOU SKIMMING and throwing random stupid crap into the mix? Please Explain in detail why you have made that ridiculous vote.

Well, he was nowhere near L-2 and he also didn't give much in his defence.

How odd again are you reading what your writing? Unless he and A are scum buddies(likely not)possibly if they are dumb as hell or masterminds.

Have you really read What DroZ said and A basically confirmed? yes he was not saying much in the forum,but saw the possiblity of A BW and cut it off so we could have info and move on maybe to a different target. Probably not the best damn plan considering what his role is,but A has basically confirmed that he did indeed make that visit.

Now that I have hopefully helped you get into the game please read along and stay caught up for the future.

Vote Jonty for two of the weakest posts in this game so far,because he is not paying attention,or he is trying to pull some stupid shit and may be scum hoping no one else is reading and will jump on a BW with him.

HAWK

[jak111]

Sorry for bringing up this list again, but it's pretty much NEEDED just for the sake of keeping claims, etc organized.

Saf
jonty
soundman
violet
aage
JG
Nag
DRoZ ~ Pretty much confirmed Watcher, watched Aage, targeted by Sam and is now confirmed that Sam visited Aage.
jak ~ Confirmed Vote Stealer (Alignment is questioned by some of you, but as far as the role goes, it is 100% confirmed from D2)
Strike
Vodean

So far the pressuring system is working, and we are gettin VALUABLE information. For instance, we know Sam visits people, and we know DRoZ is a watcher which is a town role. (Edoc isn't crazy enough to make it third party or mafia )

Now we are left with 9 to pressure for claims, even if I'm wrong, Violet has the benefit of doubt from me unless proven otherwise from a pr. So the list is down to 8 from my pov. Of these 8, I really think the next two best targets (and lately very scummy after 4 are mentioned to be non town on the list and the list got smaller just from me posting).

In my opinion these two have no real reason to fear if they are town because there's 5 town of the 9 left. But the fact that they seem to be panicking as of late, FOS Vodean and Jonty

Unvote DRoZ, Vote Vodean

Time to start spicing things up and get the kettle boiling until we hit the gold at the bottom.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Vote Vodean since I maintain that he definitely isn't an angel and there is a good chance that he is scum based off of Jak's role revelation.

[blakebowling]

Sorry for bringing up this list again, but it's pretty much NEEDED just for the sake of keeping claims, etc organized.

Saf
jonty
soundman
violet
aage
JG
Nag
DRoZ ~ Pretty much confirmed Watcher, watched Aage, targeted by Sam and is now confirmed that Sam visited Aage.
jak ~ Confirmed Vote Stealer (Alignment is questioned by some of you, but as far as the role goes, it is 100% confirmed from D2)
Strike
Vodean

So far the pressuring system is working, and we are gettin VALUABLE information. For instance, we know Sam visits people, and we know DRoZ is a watcher which is a town role. (Edoc isn't crazy enough to make it third party or mafia )

Now we are left with 9 to pressure for claims, even if I'm wrong, Violet has the benefit of doubt from me unless proven otherwise from a pr. So the list is down to 8 from my pov. Of these 8, I really think the next two best targets (and lately very scummy after 4 are mentioned to be non town on the list and the list got smaller just from me posting).

In my opinion these two have no real reason to fear if they are town because there's 5 town of the 9 left. But the fact that they seem to be panicking as of late, FOS Vodean and Jonty

Unvote DRoZ, Vote Vodean

Time to start spicing things up and get the kettle boiling until we hit the gold at the bottom.

I don't know if it's the sleep deprivation or what, but I still don't understand how you're clearing Vio. Can you please explain that to me?

[nagerous]

Sorry for bringing up this list again, but it's pretty much NEEDED just for the sake of keeping claims, etc organized.

Saf
jonty
soundman
violet
aage
JG
Nag
DRoZ ~ Pretty much confirmed Watcher, watched Aage, targeted by Sam and is now confirmed that Sam visited Aage.
jak ~ Confirmed Vote Stealer (Alignment is questioned by some of you, but as far as the role goes, it is 100% confirmed from D2)
Strike
Vodean

So far the pressuring system is working, and we are gettin VALUABLE information. For instance, we know Sam visits people, and we know DRoZ is a watcher which is a town role. (Edoc isn't crazy enough to make it third party or mafia )

Now we are left with 9 to pressure for claims, even if I'm wrong, Violet has the benefit of doubt from me unless proven otherwise from a pr. So the list is down to 8 from my pov. Of these 8, I really think the next two best targets (and lately very scummy after 4 are mentioned to be non town on the list and the list got smaller just from me posting).

In my opinion these two have no real reason to fear if they are town because there's 5 town of the 9 left. But the fact that they seem to be panicking as of late, FOS Vodean and Jonty

Unvote DRoZ, Vote Vodean

Time to start spicing things up and get the kettle boiling until we hit the gold at the bottom.

In essence, slow advocation of a mass claim? Sure mass claims work, but they are also game ruiners in many a case - also never forget that scum gain just as much 'valuable' information as the town do on roles.

[nagerous]

Also, apologies for extended absence - I was away for a week sans internet, aside from a crappy connection on my phone at odd moments..

[vodean]

Sorry for bringing up this list again, but it's pretty much NEEDED just for the sake of keeping claims, etc organized.

Saf
jonty
soundman
violet
aage
JG
Nag
DRoZ ~ Pretty much confirmed Watcher, watched Aage, targeted by Sam and is now confirmed that Sam visited Aage.
jak ~ Confirmed Vote Stealer (Alignment is questioned by some of you, but as far as the role goes, it is 100% confirmed from D2)
Strike
Vodean

So far the pressuring system is working, and we are gettin VALUABLE information. For instance, we know Sam visits people, and we know DRoZ is a watcher which is a town role. (Edoc isn't crazy enough to make it third party or mafia )

Now we are left with 9 to pressure for claims, even if I'm wrong, Violet has the benefit of doubt from me unless proven otherwise from a pr. So the list is down to 8 from my pov. Of these 8, I really think the next two best targets (and lately very scummy after 4 are mentioned to be non town on the list and the list got smaller just from me posting).

In my opinion these two have no real reason to fear if they are town because there's 5 town of the 9 left. But the fact that they seem to be panicking as of late, FOS Vodean and Jonty

Unvote DRoZ, Vote Vodean

Time to start spicing things up and get the kettle boiling until we hit the gold at the bottom.

tell me how im panicking... please. how am i panicking... if you can show me that i am panicked in my posts, with real evidence, then i will vote myself for a 24 hour period.

[strike wolf]

Sorry for the absence. I had a busy weekend (new girlfriend, school work, etc.). Anyways, I spent most of my time on today reading up on the game and I was leaning towards voting Vodean (He's been on and off the radar for scummy behavior for a good portion of the game and his thoughts on angels don't really win trust as far as voting late in the wagon, not only would that be hypocritical for me to attack him for, I don't think necessarily think it was the wrong move anyways). until I saw those last two posts from Jonty:

I'm going to vote DroZ for his random claim. And also FOS jak, for removing Vio on his list based on how she worded her post, with an element of gut instinct.

Was it a bit premature? possibly but he was being voted and there wasn't much of a defense to make.

I'm going to vote DroZ for his random claim. And also FOS jak, for removing Vio on his list based on how she worded her post, with an element of gut instinct.

Your kidding right? Random claim? Can you clarify what you mean by a random claim? Are you playing tiddlywinks and we dont know it? Are you drunk?
OR ARE YOU SKIMMING and throwing random stupid crap into the mix? Please Explain in detail why you have made that ridiculous vote.

Well, he was nowhere near L-2 and he also didn't give much in his defence.

So please tell me what kind of defense do you expect him to make given the case that was against him? It seems to me that claiming was his attempt at a defense. I also like how you've gone after the seemingly confirmed watcher (granted, watcher does not guarantee allegiance).

I'll withhold my vote for for various reasons. I think the idea of controlling who votes has some merit but I'd like to hear a better plan about how it works out before we go through with it. My only problem would be that it does take away from patterns of analysis that do come from vote patterns.

[aage]

Now we are left with 9 to pressure for claims, even if I'm wrong, Violet has the benefit of doubt from me unless proven otherwise from a pr. So the list is down to 8 from my pov. Of these 8, I really think the next two best targets (and lately very scummy after 4 are mentioned to be non town on the list and the list got smaller just from me posting).

In my opinion these two have no real reason to fear if they are town because there's 5 town of the 9 left. But the fact that they seem to be panicking as of late, FOS Vodean and Jonty

Unvote DRoZ, Vote Vodean

Time to start spicing things up and get the kettle boiling until we hit the gold at the bottom.

In essence, slow advocation of a mass claim? Sure mass claims work, but they are also game ruiners in many a case - also never forget that scum gain just as much 'valuable' information as the town do on roles.

I would complain about the lack of length of your post if you weren't right. A mass claim on day 3 probably isn't going to yield anything either, btw... in a flavor high game like this I have no doubt scum is packed with false claims. We would just be providing scum with 5 town roles. Besides, it seems easy for Jak to say this since he already put all his cards on the table for reasons unknown very early; he has nothing to lose.

lmfao... Okay Vodean, your last three posts.

sounds like it should work out well.

there wasn't (nor isn't) even a plan yet, so I find it interesting that you already know that it will work out.

thats all well and good, but there were FOUR, not THREE anti-town on the BW. so even if you lynch all of us, and we ALL flip anti-town, you are still missing someone... and by then scum has an advantage anyway from the night, since we wont all flip anti-town, and even if we do, there will be some third parties.

Aside from the fact that f1fth said 'those people are most likely to be mafia' rather than 'these are all the scum in the group guys', this is a useless remark.

or you are scum, with info about a fellow scum that you are using to try and make us forget about you before we BW you too much

Yeah... who are you implying to be scum here, me or Sam? If Sam, that'd be very poor teamplay. If me, he could have never known who targeted me especially since I wasn't even aware of it.
FoS.

you are clearly skimming really badly... that was obviously directed to Droz, and the first one was right after someone posted a plan. The second one was a useless rebuttal to a useless argument.

It was directed a Droz alright, but the only way he could have gained that information is if either Sam (the watcher) or me (the watchee) were scum. Therefore I was wondering how you thought your conspiracy theory worked out, and found that it didn't. The plan you responded to was only /'s notion that we should have one. There isn't even one now. Your useless rebuttal indeed seems useless since you try to disprove a theory with irrelevant math. No skimming here.
As to you panicking, haven't seen that. The reply you gave which I responded to now seems fine. Nothing wrong with a wild skim accusation.


@Blake It appears that violet has made a reference to her win condition (probably here) which swayed Jak... although it seems kind of obvious that town will win if all demons are eliminated.

[jonty125]

So please tell me what kind of defense do you expect him to make given the case that was against him? It seems to me that claiming was his attempt at a defense. I also like how you've gone after the seemingly confirmed watcher (granted, watcher does not guarantee allegiance).

With the timing of his claim, I had a suspicion that he might have been fakeclaiming and I was prematuring a counter-claim. It hasn't happened so unvote. I expected more than one sentence referring to his inactivity and lack of contribution.

[samgrossy]

Vote Vodean since I maintain that he definitely isn't an angel and there is a good chance that he is scum based off of Jak's role revelation.

LSU has the most convincing argument here. While I am really anxious to get Sully, as I think he is acted super strange, I can see that the case I constructed received little to no response. I am not going to beat a dead horse with him. And, I said that I would drop my case on Jak unless we couldn't get something going.

It's pretty clear from Vodean's D1 post that he is most likely not an angel, and he is on the list of people who voted to lynch Greg.

UNVOTE VOTE VODEAN

[blakebowling]

@Blake It appears that violet has made a reference to her win condition (probably here) which swayed Jak... although it seems kind of obvious that town will win if all demons are eliminated.

I saw that, although it doesn't confirm anything to me. I'm fine with believing droz, assuming no counterclaims. Vodean seems to be the next source of information, as he has already revealed he isn't an angel.

Vote vodean Although I'm still FoS jak, for various reasons.

[vodean]

im a human... my role is potentially useful, but more so if i remain unclaimed.

[safariguy5]

Sorry for being a bit absent recently. Midterms and whatnot.

I was just about to vote jonty for his very poor logic for voting DRoz after the claim. When you get put on a short list like that, there's not much you can say in your defense IMHO besides claiming.

FOS Jonty

That said, vodean claiming human doesn't say much. If DRoZ does a full claim, it doesn't hurt for vodean to say a little more. Name? Are you a saint? I don't necessarily expect you to roleclaim, but something a little more substantial would be nice.

vote vodean

And I don't think Sully's vote would be counted in the lynch votes. So if he is under consideration for being possible scum, I don't think that would be the case. I would like him to be more active however.

[vodean]

yes. i am a saint. is that better? i dont feel there is enough pressure to warrant more than that

[/]

Alright, after some thought, I have devised a proper system to use.
For the purposes of this working, we either need to confirm the exact effects of jaks role, have him and other multi voters NOT USE THEIR ROLES unless instructed, or lynch them.

We are currently divided between
list A
Scum ratio 3-4 out of 11-12

Spoiler

Jak
Jonty
Safari
Soundman
VioIet
Aage
JGordon
nagerous
DRoZ
strike wolf
vodean
LSU's vote controlled by Jak

And list B
No known ratio, 12 players

Spoiler

Pancakemix
Mr. S
Com9
Shaggy
samgrossy
djfireside
/
victor
F1fth
Crazymilkshake
Hensow
Chapcrap <must not be scum for this to work

if we wish to be clear on how many scum there are total, we might have everyone on list B partake in the lynch alone today.
otherwise, to move on to the plan. With 23 alive it takes 12 to lynch
we will have everyone on list A on the bandwagon, not counting the stolen vote, we will subtract one extra from list A, and add two from list B for a total of 12,

so, for example,

Spoiler

Final vote count, / has been lynched
/ (12 votes)
Jak
Jonty
Safari
Soundman
VioIet
Aage
JGordon
nagerous
DRoZ
strike wolf
Pancakemix
Mr. S

in the above example, vodean was removed from list A, pancake and squirrel were added from list B
if chap confirms the amount of scum on the lynch has dropped, it means one of the following, that can be narrowed down through subsequent lynches and list reshuffles
1.vodean is scum, and was removed form the list
2.jak is scum, and his vote counts twice
3.LSU is scum, and his vote counts even if it isn't by choice.
4.Pancake and squirrel cannot be scum. <PROVEN

if the ratio stays the same, it means one of the following
1.Vodean, mr.s and pancake are town
2.Vodean was scum, but was replaced by pancake or mr.s who are also scum.
3.LSU is scum that was replaced by another scum
4. Jak is scum, whose extra vote was also replaced by scum.

if the ratio rises to 5 scum, it means one of the following
1.Vodean is town, pancake or Mr S is scum
2.vodean is scum, pancake and mr s are scum
3.jak's second vote is scum, pancake and mr.s are scum
4.jak's second vote is town, pancake or squirrel are scum.

if the ratio rises by two
1.it can only mean Mr S and pancake are scum, vodean is cleared, four of those remaining are scum too

once this ratio is established, the new group of band-wagoners becomes list A, and should subsequently have someone removed that needs to be cleared, and list B unknowns added to be tested depending on the total number of alive players remaining.

and since it has the most mystery around it, I would personally subtract jak's role from today's side A equation final vote count, but that's up to you all.
by this method, taking into account lynches, possible vig kills (I recommend that town kills be prioritized to list A, as it narrows down the ratio without doubt), mafia kills, etc, we could plausibly have everyone cleared in less than 5 game days.