Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[safariguy5]

Ideally, if Droz could either prove or disprove any of the claimed night actions, that would be best. But given what's been revealed, I just think it's highly unlikely that strike would deliberately give himself away as scum when I was leading a completely wrong wagon. Now, if rishaed indeed is doc, then we have both strike and sound as scum. I agree that lynching a doc is risky, but there's a difference between lynching a claimed doc and lynching a proven doc. And a 2 for 1 trade is good for us even if we're giving up a doc.

[F1fth]

Sorry for my absence, but as others have noted this is a busy time of year. Looks like the ball is rolling fast today, so we should slow it down and think things through.

Clearly, at least one person must be scum between Safari, Strike, Soundman, and Rishaed. Of note is that every one of these players except Rishaed are on "The List," though I wouldn't easily doubt Safari given how powerful his claim is (both in name and role). And as Safari mentioned, Strike also has some credit for bringing forth his action unprovoked and because doing so would a risky play as scum. But Strike is a veteran player, so I would not advise overlooking the possibility that he's lying.

Therefore, I won't consider the possibility that Safari is scum (only in this analysis!) because if so, then all bets are off regarding the other roles:

My thoughts

Outcomes:
Lynch town Rishaed
-Strike: scum
-Soundman: scum
Comments: In this case, it's seems almost impossible that Strike and Soundman could be town because Safari's investigation had to hit scum somewhere, and thus Safari must have hit Soundman which could only happen if Strike were lying.

Lynch scum Rishaed
-Strike: likely town
-Soundman: ambiguous
Comments: In this case, Strike is most likely telling the truth about his busdrive because it makes little sense to lie to get a scum buddy lynched. Unless, of course, all three of Rishaed, Strike, and Soundman are scum and Soundman has a more valuable role. Even if Strike is town, Soundman could still easily be scum or town.

Lynch town Soundman
-Strike: town
-Rishaed: scum
Comments: In this case, Rishaed is almost assuredly scum since Safari's investigation had to hit either Rishaed or Soundman. Then it's seems highly unlikely that Strike as scum would interject to save a town member and to lead attention to a scum mate.

Lynch scum Soundman
-Strike: ambiguous
-Rishaed: ambiguous
Comments: In this case, it's possible that Strike was sticking his neck out for his scum buddy Soundman, but it's also possible that both Soundman and Rishaed are scum and Strike is honest town. These results are mutually exclusive.

So that's my analysis on the matter. I don't really have an opinion about which lynch is the better option to test this out at this point (and I definitely think it would be worth it to try to resolve this tonight). It seems like no matter the choice, we have about a 50-50 of hitting scum and also of getting more concrete information. And again, if Safari is lying all this gets blown out of the water.

If anyone disagrees with my thoughts, feel free to point out specifics. I'd like to hear from you guys, especially regarding whether you think our choice of lynch tonight should be solely between Soundman and Rishaed. I also think that it might be helpful to get a claim from Soundman before making a decision. We have a roleclaim from everyone else involved and with a claimed doc there's not much worry about outing one. We might even get a counterclaim.

[NoSurvivors]

I also think that it might be helpful to get a claim from Soundman before making a decision.

Seconded. I wanna hear it soundy.

[Rodion]

There is no rational reason to force Soundman into claiming after Strike's claim.

Strike, did Edoc already confirm your previous night actions?

[strike wolf]

Apparently my memory is far from perfect:

Night 1: Switched Hensow with Aage

Night 2: Mr. Squirrel with Victor

As far as F1fth's list, it seems accurate from a third party perspective (third party as in his involvement with the situation, not in his alignment). beyond that I can't say much regarding it without bias.

As far as Rishaed, by claiming doctor, I am now even more convinced he is scum. I do believe there is a doctor. I am just 95% certain I know the role name of the real doctor (through background information and limited available information in scenes). Beyond that, even if for some odd reason, my bus drive did not affect Safari's result (with two people claiming to be blocked role block seems unlikely and a redirector at the very least has not stepped forward to say that they interfered with my action), I have to assume that Rishaed is not THE doctor and with no deaths of any of those on the nights in question, it seems unlikely that he is insane or a CPR doc (which he should be aware of anyways if he was) and I believe Insane, paranoid and naive docs have come to be considered somewhat bastardish. I could believe multiple protective roles but we already have that (Safari-superJOAT could act as doc every night, unknown doc (not Rishaed), Hensow was a suicide reviver) and this game already appears to be investigative heavy even if you were to believe that Droz isn't town (SuperJOAT, tracker, flavor cop, vote counter)

[soundman]

Well I'm glad Strike came forward with his info. I would have been completely lost in defending myself against a wrong investigation. Needless to say I am town but I don't see a reason to give scum an advantage by claiming. FOS F1fth and NoS for wanting one. Like Rodion said, there's no rational reason for me to claim with Strike's claim. While I hesitate to lynch a claimed doc the facts are against Rishaed's claim. Unless Saf is lying which I don't think he is. So I will Vote Rishaed.

As a side note I've been suspicious of NoS for a while. All his posts are just mimics of what someone else has already said.

Fastposted.

[blakebowling]

Well I'm glad Strike came forward with his info. I would have been completely lost in defending myself against a wrong investigation. Needless to say I am town but I don't see a reason to give scum an advantage by claiming. FOS F1fth and NoS for wanting one. Like Rodion said, there's no rational reason for me to claim with Strike's claim. While I hesitate to lynch a claimed doc the facts are against Rishaed's claim. Unless Saf is lying which I don't think he is. So I will Vote Rishaed.

As a side note I've been suspicious of NoS for a while. All his posts are just mimics of what someone else has already said.

Fastposted.

There is also the possibility of a framer (i.e. the framer targeted you and skewed safari's result).

As far as the possibility of safari lying: Why would a scum out himself to get one lynch? Assuming that safari is scum and rishaed really is the doc: That either makes strike scum as well (2 scum for one doc is still in town's advantage). OR safari got really lucky and it just happened to turn out this way (really unlikely).
All in all, At the time being I believe safari's claim (it doesn't make sense for him to have claimed) and strike's (he gave up his information willingly). This is of course assuming there is only one scum among the four. (strike, safari, rishaed, and soundman)

F1fth's conclusions are also logical, I believe that lynching Rishaed (no matter which way he flips) is our best option. Either we kill 1 scum and loose nothing (More Llikely) OR we kill 2 scum and loose a doc (Less Likely).

[rishaed]

Well it seems that I'm going to get lynched no matter what here. Thanks for letting me play with you guys! Its been nice.

[pancakemix]

If it were anything else, I'd have reservations. However, busdriver isn't an easy role to fake and it'd be a huge gamble to try even try. #readitalready #mafiaproblems #hashtagsarefortwitter #unvote

As for rish, the above post pretty much sounds like a concession (or a confession? Both?). So I'll vote rish.

I dunno if the angels coming forward is such a good thing. They're likely the most powerful roles we've got, and the doc/watcher can't cover all of them.

[pancakemix]

If it were anything else, I'd have reservations. However, busdriver isn't an easy role to fake and it'd be a huge gamble to try even try. #readitalready #mafiaproblems #hashtagsarefortwitter #unvote

As for rish, the above post pretty much sounds like a concession (or a confession? Both?). So I'll vote rish.

I dunno if the angels coming forward is such a good thing. They're likely the most powerful roles we've got, and the doc/watcher can't cover all of them.

EBWOP

[NoSurvivors]

Well I'm glad Strike came forward with his info. I would have been completely lost in defending myself against a wrong investigation. Needless to say I am town but I don't see a reason to give scum an advantage by claiming. FOS F1fth and NoS for wanting one. Like Rodion said, there's no rational reason for me to claim with Strike's claim. While I hesitate to lynch a claimed doc the facts are against Rishaed's claim. Unless Saf is lying which I don't think he is. So I will Vote Rishaed.

As a side note I've been suspicious of NoS for a while. All his posts are just mimics of what someone else has already said.

Fastposted.

YOU.. are calling ME out on scummy play? Lol alright bud. Coming from a guy who hasn't posted since the top of page 67, I am not answering to you. But it was a good attempt, keep on truckin

NOTE: This post may contain scummy content, viewer discretion is advised.

[NoSurvivors]

sorry for the doublepost but also, you did seem to post rather quickly when it was convenient for you..

[DRoZ]

N1: Iliad
N2: Vodean
N3: Mr. squirrel
N4: Strike
That have been my night actions so far in this game N1&N2 were CMS5 and I was rushing to send in my action N3 b/c of flight back to states.
N4 Strike seemed to have a pretty good spotlight on him and since I figured Scum would go after someone close, but not directly in the limelight i doc'd him.

I wonder if Droz would be able to prove or disprove any of this.

I can't really prove/disprove much of that, although I did watch CM5 on night one and can confirm nothing happened to him.

[Rodion]

Night 1: Sully- Innocent
Night 2: Com9- Innocent
Night 3: VioIet- Innocent
Night 4: Soundman- Guilty

No interference from Strike Nights 1 and 2 means Sully and Commander are cleared.

I don't think you've claimed your N3 actions, though, Strike? I'm guessing whatever it is you did had nothing to do with Violet? Can we clear her as well? I'll assume we can, but let me know.

gregwolf (12) ~ Saf, jonty, soundman, violet, aage, JG, Nag, DRoZ, jak, ??? (regardless of whether ??? was Jak or Victor), Strike, Vodean

Means we have 3 anti-town out of the following 6:

Saf, Jonty, Soundman, Aage, Droz, Strike

I'd suggest Aage, Jonty and Droz for the killing Rishaed wagon.

Rishaed, who would you suggest?

[Rodion]

I'd also like to recommend that Gregwolf forces everyone he masons with into fully claiming through PMs.

[rishaed]

Night 1: Sully- Innocent
Night 2: Com9- Innocent
Night 3: VioIet- Innocent
Night 4: Soundman- Guilty

No interference from Strike Nights 1 and 2 means Sully and Commander are cleared.

I don't think you've claimed your N3 actions, though, Strike? I'm guessing whatever it is you did had nothing to do with Violet? Can we clear her as well? I'll assume we can, but let me know.

gregwolf (12) ~ Saf, jonty, soundman, violet, aage, JG, Nag, DRoZ, jak, ??? (regardless of whether ??? was Jak or Victor), Strike, Vodean

Means we have 3 anti-town out of the following 6:

Saf, Jonty, Soundman, Aage, Droz, Strike

I'd suggest Aage, Jonty and Droz for the killing Rishaed wagon.

Rishaed, who would you suggest?

^ are you honestly asking me who i want to lynch me IMHO I don't want to be lynched ya know? I really don't care atm seeing as I'm being lynched, its up to you guys to decide

[Rodion]

I was worried that the character Strike thought to be the doctor was not in fact, since the "doc switch" was still alive and there was no reason to ever turn the switch "on". I was somewhat puzzled and even considered raising that point to partially defend Rishaed, but...

^ are you honestly asking me who i want to lynch me IMHO I don't want to be lynched ya know? I really don't care atm seeing as I'm being lynched, its up to you guys to decide

Yes, that was the last chance you had to prove you had town's best interest in mind when deciding who would be "investigated" by Chap. Playing town means you can win even if you die, so knowing your lynch is imminent should not stop you from trying to find scum until your very last breath. I'll take that lack of interest as your confession of being mafia.

[aage]

I was worried that the character Strike thought to be the doctor was not in fact, since the "doc switch" was still alive and there was no reason to ever turn the switch "on". I was somewhat puzzled and even considered raising that point to partially defend Rishaed, but...

^ are you honestly asking me who i want to lynch me IMHO I don't want to be lynched ya know? I really don't care atm seeing as I'm being lynched, its up to you guys to decide

Yes, that was the last chance you had to prove you had town's best interest in mind when deciding who would be "investigated" by Chap. Playing town means you can win even if you die, so knowing your lynch is imminent should not stop you from trying to find scum until your very last breath. I'll take that lack of interest as your confession of being mafia.

I still wonder what the doc switch did though. Two nights have been without kills so far, so apparently those nights had active doctors in them (or very lucky roleblockers). Does killing the 'doc switch' mean all doctor actions from now on fail?

Agreed with the last paragraph, I say lynch him. Far too non-caring to be town.

[aage]

I was worried that the character Strike thought to be the doctor was not in fact, since the "doc switch" was still alive and there was no reason to ever turn the switch "on". I was somewhat puzzled and even considered raising that point to partially defend Rishaed, but...

^ are you honestly asking me who i want to lynch me IMHO I don't want to be lynched ya know? I really don't care atm seeing as I'm being lynched, its up to you guys to decide

Yes, that was the last chance you had to prove you had town's best interest in mind when deciding who would be "investigated" by Chap. Playing town means you can win even if you die, so knowing your lynch is imminent should not stop you from trying to find scum until your very last breath. I'll take that lack of interest as your confession of being mafia.

I still wonder what the doc switch did though. Two nights have been without kills so far, so apparently those nights had active doctors in them (or very lucky roleblockers). Does killing the 'doc switch' mean all doctor actions from now on fail?

Agreed with the last paragraph, I say lynch him. Far too non-caring to be town.

Offtopic, why is the thread so slow to load? :s

[aage]

Sorry about that double post, my browser was loading the page for over three minutes and my reply didn't show up for some reason.

[DoomYoshi]

unvote

I would argue that I am not 100% cleared though. The mafia may have a busdrive, and I could be a godfather. However, that list of three makes sense to me, so I don't need to be on the wagon.

[jonty125]

vote rishaed seems like scum in his last few posts, and for wagon analytics.

[Rodion]

The one thing I managed to research about the doc switch was that he could "flip" the switch at nights. However, the setup had both a mafia doc switch and a SK doc switch, meaning that if both decided to turn the doctor off, the doctor would be on (2 negatives = positive). This game, however, seems pretty maniqueist to have a SK. My assumption is that mafia could turn the doctor off and nulify him as long as Vodean lived.

I obviously don't know much about doc switchs as I had never seen one. If anyone has any knowledge on this role, feel free to elucidate us.

[gregwolf121]

Night 1: Sully- Innocent
Night 2: Com9- Innocent
Night 3: VioIet- Innocent
Night 4: Soundman- Guilty

No interference from Strike Nights 1 and 2 means Sully and Commander are cleared.

I don't think you've claimed your N3 actions, though, Strike? I'm guessing whatever it is you did had nothing to do with Violet? Can we clear her as well? I'll assume we can, but let me know.

gregwolf (12) ~ Saf, jonty, soundman, violet, aage, JG, Nag, DRoZ, jak, ??? (regardless of whether ??? was Jak or Victor), Strike, Vodean

Means we have 3 anti-town out of the following 6:

Saf, Jonty, Soundman, Aage, Droz, Strike

I'd suggest Aage, Jonty and Droz for the killing Rishaed wagon.

Rishaed, who would you suggest?

Just for the Record i would exclude Saf from the list, i agree that it is still possible that he is scum, but it is highly unlikely, and it narrows down the anti-town to 3 of 5

[VioIet]

N1: Iliad
N2: Vodean
N3: Mr. squirrel
N4: Strike
That have been my night actions so far in this game N1&N2 were CM5 and I was rushing to send in my action N3 b/c of flight back to states.
N4 Strike seemed to have a pretty good spotlight on him and since I figured Scum would go after someone close, but not directly in the limelight i doc'd him.

I wonder if Droz would be able to prove or disprove any of this.

I can't really prove/disprove much of that, although I did watch CM5 on night one and can confirm nothing happened to him.

If you watched CMS, who I assume is crazymilkshake, on Night 1 then you should have seen rishaed visit him. That is what I'm asking!!!! I don't know how you didn't understand that, or why you still seem to refuse to give us the information we need. I was on your side, but now I'm starting to get suspicious of you as well.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I you watch someone- doesn't that mean that the mod gives you the name of whoever visited that player? Whenever I've been watcher in a game, I was always given the name of whoever visited my target, if anyone did. If no one visited, the mod said, "No one visited X."

I don't understand why Droz would give such a lax response, such as, "I can't really prove/disprove much of that." Either you watched some of those targets- so you can prove/disprove, or you didn't watch anyone of them, so you can't prove/disprove. You give an answer down the middle, which can't work.

If I was a watcher, and I had watched CMS, I could say whether someone had visited him or didn't visit him.

Also, rishaed says that he healed Illiad on Night 1 and Vodean on Night 2 (awful choice). But then why did he say he visited CMS on Nights 1 and 2? That doesn't make sense!

I don't think you've claimed your N3 actions, though, Strike? I'm guessing whatever it is you did had nothing to do with Violet? Can we clear her as well? I'll assume we can, but let me know.

I claimed my role on Day 2. I am pretty sure that is why safari investigated me by Night 3. But I I would be pretty interested in hearing what strike has to say about Night 3. I think me being officially cleared once and for all would show the validity of the human-saint type roles. They are on the same side of the angels.