simtom / passispaws [blocked]

Georgerx7di · Post by **Georgerx7di** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:33 am

Simtom has admitted that he deliberately tried to lower his score to zero. Then he admited that he actually tried to win team games with his friend. by artificially lowering his score, his friend passispaws earns 2 times the points when he wins, and looses 1/2 the amount when he looses. We would all like to have a partner with 1 point in doubles games, but to me that is cheating. He has argued this point with me in the forums, so I thought that I would put it to a vote.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:55 am

How is this any less fair than a General doing it with any old private, as does *cough* sometimes happen?

More power to them.

Georgerx7di · Post by **Georgerx7di** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:04 am

because the private is not purposely making his score lower on purpose.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:09 am

Yeah, but the General is purposely choosing to play with a Private. It's not against the rules. simtom is purposely deadbeating, and this is also not against the rules. If A is legal, and B is legal, then A + B isn't illegal. The system is being gamed. It's what happens with systems. I believe plans are already somewhat afoot to correct this.

What I want to know before this goes any further is, say for argument sake we all agree simtom is cheating. Since no rule currently exists to cover simtom, what rule gets written?

Georgerx7di · Post by **Georgerx7di** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:54 pm

right, but that privates skill level is proportional to his score, sintoms is not. He could be as good as a colonel, and you get him on your team, without paying the price of having a high score team mate.

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:25 pm

Georgerx7di wrote:right, but that privates skill level is proportional to his score, sintoms is not. He could be as good as a colonel, and you get him on your team, without paying the price of having a high score team mate.

Not necessarily, people who are good but play a lot of team games have far higher scores than people who are equally good but play a lot of free-for-alls; the score is a rough indicator of skill, but its also an indicator of time-invested and game type played. The fact is that it's often a poor indicator of skill level.

However, the point is not really about people's scores (artificially high/low or not) and who they choose to play with, it's an interesting line of argument, but it's not really the issue at hand. The fact of that matter is that anybody is free to aim for whatever score they wish, the fact that the norm is to aim for a high score is irrelevant. People may aim to win/lose as many games as they choose, and they may elect to partner whoever they choose in team games; for whatever reason.
Without a prior rule stating it is 'illegal', then the action is lawful; end of.

The real point surrounding the Simtom issue, is that it is your responsibility who you choose to play games against. If you don't want to play against random teams then there is a callouts forum, if you specifically do not wish to play against Simtom, then there is an ignore button. If your score obsesses you so much, then both facilities are open to you. You only have to play against people who you choose as opponents, it's that simple. Whinging about people partnering players with lower/higher scores is beside the point.

Remember: CC is just a game, and your score is just a number. Chill out about it.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:43 pm

ZawBanjito wrote:How is this any less fair than a General doing it with any old private, as does *cough* sometimes happen?

More power to them.

i'd say the issue here is, simtom is acting as a defacto multi account for his friends, and in fact a multi account w/ an incredibly low score, giving his friends an opportunity for insane points.

and the argument here i think could be resolved by george revising the wording of his poll/question. it's not technically cheating, but it's certainly an abuse of the system (against the spirit of the law and basic competition). we've seen punishments for other offenses that didn't actually violate rules 1 or 2. it's within reason to punish simtom for this, and i don't think it would open up a pandora's box of problems for players' rights (whatever those are).

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:14 pm

Nephilim wrote: i'd say the issue here is, simtom is acting as a defacto multi account for his friends, and in fact a multi account w/ an incredibly low score, giving his friends an opportunity for insane points.

and the argument here i think could be resolved by george revising the wording of his poll/question. it's not technically cheating, but it's certainly an abuse of the system (against the spirit of the law and basic competition). we've seen punishments for other offenses that didn't actually violate rules 1 or 2. it's within reason to punish simtom for this, and i don't think it would open up a pandora's box of problems for players' rights (whatever those are).

I certainly agree with this, although "multi" might be too strong a term. If simtom is doing this specifically for the purpose of doubling with pals, then I perhaps he should be banned from playing with those pals. Perhaps it could be argued that there is an a priori secret alliance of sorts at work?

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:07 pm

its definitely wrong...but technically deadbeating isnt stated as being against the rules, but Im sure a rule could limit the games joined if someone is joining and not playing any moves at all and not affect any real player of the game....he is a point terrorist, pure and simple....he delayed hundreds of games for people, and now is helping his friend win an disproportionate amount of points

I feel bad for the hundreds of people he's annoyed...but nothing you can do with someone with no moral character...except be confident that it will catch up to him eventually

hwhrhett · Post by **hwhrhett** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:37 pm

hes only stealing points from newbs anyway, anybody thats played a couple of games on here knows not to play someone that has 50 negatives. if u join a game with someone who has 50 negatives, then its your own fault if he pulls some shady shit and you lose alot of points.

Iliad · Post by **Iliad** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:25 am

Georgerx7di wrote:right, but that privates skill level is proportional to his score, sintoms is not. He could be as good as a colonel, and you get him on your team, without paying the price of having a high score team mate.

You do realise a colonel would have such a low score if even he deadbeated as much as simtom. Simtom is not that good. Now if simtom plays with a general and doesn't deadbeat.

banana_hammocks · Post by **banana_hammocks** » Thu May 03, 2007 2:18 pm

simtom is not trying to cheat anyone out of points. If anything he is dolling out points for free at the moment.

His stated aim as has been said before by him is to try and get a negative score. He is currently at 1 point, which according to the mods is the lowest possible.

Your score over the long run should be about your level, hence why you gain more if you are lower ranked and less if you are higher ranked. So at the moment simtom is much lower than his real ranking should be. Once he decides that he cant get negative and starts playing for real again he will quickly regain his points up to reasonable levels taking extra points off people for a while (much as people took extra points of him. Remember for every point he has lost to get down to 1 someone else has gained), then the whole problem will be over. Many new players are ranked lower than their ability, while simtom is an extreme it is not the only problem, remember all the generals were once privates.

He started playing doubles with Passispaws to speed this up as playing single player he was losing 0 points, (so in a way abusing the point system the opposite way, teaming with a high ranked player to lose points). In terms of secret alliances that is for single player or even multiple team games, not 2v2 doubles. The mods have already been asked for a multi check on him which came out negative, they were completely different people. So stop calling him a multi. If you check their results most of them have been losses especially in public games.

Perhaps doubles scores should be made more proportional but that is discussion for another time.

simtom is not doing anything against the rules of the game. The only bad thing that he has done is deadbeat, he is not a cheat.

As dancing mustard said: CC is just a game, and your score is just a number. Chill out about it.

Daws2 · Post by **Daws2** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:43 pm

CC only has two rules - no multiple accounts and no secret alliances (or at least thats all i was told when i signed up) so he's not breaking any rules.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:02 pm

It's only true that simtom is not strictly breaking any rules. However, the moderators have shown a willingness to stretch the rules to cover new situations seen as detrimental to the community and which nobody could have/wanted to predict (see: dugcarr.)

I think an argument COULD be made that simtom is in violation of the "No Secret Alliances" rule, if it can be shown - as has been claimed - that he is losing points as a delibrate act to help his friend in doubles matches by gaming the points system. If this were true, it seems like cheating unwary players out of points they legitimately deserve JUST AS IF simtom and his partner had a real secret alliance.

simtom · Post by **simtom** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:49 pm

We're so good at cheating that we're almost Sergeant's! =p

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:51 pm

ZawBanjito wrote:It's only true that simtom is not strictly breaking any rules. However, the moderators have shown a willingness to stretch the rules to cover new situations seen as detrimental to the community and which nobody could have/wanted to predict (see: dugcarr.)

I think an argument COULD be made that simtom is in violation of the "No Secret Alliances" rule, if it can be shown - as has been claimed - that he is losing points as a delibrate act to help his friend in doubles matches by gaming the points system. If this were true, it seems like cheating unwary players out of points they legitimately deserve JUST AS IF simtom and his partner had a real secret alliance.

and this is what i meant by the multi thing i said. i'm not accusing simtom of having multi's, i'm saying he is acting as a de facto multi for his friends. usually a multi user will have a fairly high score, and his other accounts will be low scores. thus he can team w/ them in doubles games against colonels and such, and gain massive points for wins.

so simtom has lowered his score to 1 and is now playing w/ buddies; de facto multi account for them

simtom · Post by **simtom** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:09 pm

Ya it's really worked too! Look how high Pass's score has gone! :O

Daws2 · Post by **Daws2** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:53 pm

if hes playing doubles its hardly a secret alliance! this is legit.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Tue May 08, 2007 8:37 am

Considering that simtom is admitting to this, will there be action? I don't care personally, having never played them, but it's a pretty interesting debate. If he starts annoying another whole bunch of people to get his score down again for the express purpose of again aiding his pals in doubles points, well...

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:16 pm

These two have been blocked from playing with each other on CC. They may continue to play with each other anywhere besides CC.

simtom · Post by **simtom** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:21 pm

Why have we been blocked from playing with each other?

We're doubles partners! what's wrong with that?

We don't join any singles games together! So we're not using secret alliance, and we're not multis coz you can check our IPs! his is somewhere in america mine will be from england.

Also look at this screeny I took just now:

http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... assnm3.jpg

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:24 pm

Pass admitted to throwing games for you.

simtom · Post by **simtom** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:39 pm

where?

and what game numbers?

He's never thrown a game for me....

Find me one game that we've played together in singles that i've won!

PassIsPaws · Post by **PassIsPaws** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:50 pm

lol i honestly cant believe this is going so far as to separate me and him from playing together...you dont separate the colonels from playing together and noob bashing but you separate "multis" from playing with friends.

cant you just check our IP addresses and know? i thought admins coudl do that. if they cant then i say we host a MSN chat with an admin so they can tell we are 2 separate people :O

hecter · Post by **hecter** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:10 pm

You aren't banned, just blocked from playing each other

simtom / passispaws [blocked]

Is it cheating if a player looses singles games on purpose; then joins doubles games and plays for real to help his friend get twice the points.

simtom / passispaws [blocked]

simtom