CCup 4 format discussion (ver 5, p. 28)

[Genoke]

A sword, a motorcycle and a pet bear. Fancy anything?

is the pet bear a soft one?

[IcePack]

A sword, a motorcycle and a pet bear. Fancy anything?

What kinda sword? I'll probably fancy having that one.

[Chariot of Fire]

I am not trying to cause drama. I have legitimate questions and have asked for specific examples in response to CD statements. I haven't received that, which is why I keep posting.

We get it. You hate CDs. Let's move on. All you are doing is cluttering up the thread.

Also, the next time you double post, you will receive proper site discipline.

Bit lame mate considering the excellent content of Foxy's post and the time she'd invested in it.

Good post by Dako too. I think anyone should be given enough rope so he can hang himself. Give him carte blanche to run it. If there are any cock-ups he'd be the first to admit it and the first to stand down, he's that kind of guy.

Whatever happened to trust?

[jetsetwilly]

I will post the next draft of rules tomorrow. Stay tuned.

Thanks, here's a hold page for you

[Keefie]

When the vote on seedings and the draw is made can we please make sure that the options do not include phrases like:

Same as CC3

Like last time

etc etc etc

Some folks just go for the safe option without reading everything.

Also can one of the options please be:

A random bracket with a draw for each round.

[Dako]

A sword, a motorcycle and a pet bear. Fancy anything?

What kinda sword? I'll probably fancy having that one.

http://jpmaster.ru/products_pictures/dsc01350.jpg
Something close to that. I don't have it yet, smiths are still working on it, but I will have it in 2-3 months.

[Ace Rimmer]

A sword, a motorcycle and a pet bear. Fancy anything?

Can I have your sister?

[Dako]

As if I am her pimp… Ask her not me!

[IcePack]

As if I am her pimp… Ask her not me!

Your sister has a female pimp?

When the vote on seedings and the draw is made can we please make sure that the options do not include phrases like:

Same as CC3

Like last time

etc etc etc

Some folks just go for the safe option without reading everything.

Also can one of the options please be:

A random bracket with a draw for each round.

It's a bit "Cart before the horse"/premature to vote on seeding options before you find out if the majority even want it changed.

Do you want to change the seeding procedure?
Yes
No

Simple - and then if no wins we can debate / vote on an alternate method. But to vote on something before you know it's wanted is silly

[friendly1]

Hello everyone!

I plan to host the next CCup this year and I would like you to suggest any improvements to the current format. I will post my own ideas a bit later so you don't get swayed by them.


Proposed CCup4 schedule

• March 4th — discussions about format open
• March 18th — discussions end, sign-ups open (subject to review)
• April 8th — sign-ups close, final brackets posted (subject to review)
• April 15th — first round starts (subject to review)

Is this the new timeline that is being used?

Oh, and one more thing about these discussions. I think we will be able to finalize all the rules this week. After that I will post next draft which will include all the latest comments from you. I hope that #5 draft will be final and nothing major will be changed there. I will give one more week for final calls from you after which I will post final CCup4 rules.

After that, on April 1st, I will open sign-ups.
On April 15th they will be closed, with final brackets posted on the latest F400 later at that day.
On April 22nd first round will start and games for 1st batch will be sent.

How does this schedule sound to you?

PS - if there will be no major discussions about the rules this week we might speed up all the things and skip one week in schedule.

[Dako]

Draft of CCup4 rules, ver. 5


Following sections has been changed from version #4:

• Seeding and brackets
• Clan eligibility
• Timing out a turn
• Change of rules by mutual agreement
• CCup host goes MIA

Seeding and brackets

CCup will be a single-elimination tournament with seeding based completely on F400 rankings. I will arrange with IcePack for F400 to be updated once the sign-ups close. New clans that has yet to be ranked on F400 will be placed at the bottom of the table in alphabetical order.

After that clan will be seeded according to that list and paired #1 vs #32, #2 vs #31 and so on. If we will have more than 32 clans some top clans will get a bye in the first round.


Clan Eligibility

To sign-up for CCup your clan must meet the following criteria:

• Adhere to one competitive clan rule
• Have at least 15 members
• Have completed at least one war of 40+ games or participated in one of the leagues (either clan league or random league)

If your clan doesn't meet any or all of these points and you still want to enlist for CCup you should PM me with an explanation why you should be allowed in. After that your application will be reviewed.


Player Eligibility

If a player who have already participated in the current competition switches a clan in the middle of CCup that player can participate after he/she waits one full round of CCup.


Allowed Settings

• Initial Troops - only Automatic
• Play Order - only Sequential
• Spoils - any
• Reinforcements - any
• Special Gameplay - any, but Trench Warfare games cannot take more than 20% of home games of each clan
• Round Limit - only 30 Rounds
• Round Length - only 24 Hours

Fog of war courtesy rule will be applied by default to all games.


Allowed maps

Any, excluding Beta maps


Clan wars

For all rounds:
- Each clan will pick the map and settings for exactly half of the games
- Each map can only be used twice per clan per clan war but can only be used once per game type (i.e. once for triples and once for quads)


Play-in round, Round of 32, Round of 16
- 41 total games
- 12 doubles, 14 triples, 14 quads with 41st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 12 games per clan war
- Each round will be played in two batches with exactly half of the games in each batch


Quarter-finals, semi-finals
- 61 total games
- 20 doubles, 20 triples, 20 quads with 61st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 16 games per clan war
- Each round will be played in three batches with exactly third of the games in each batch

Finals
- 81 total games
- 24 doubles, 28 triples, 28 quads with 81st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 22 games per clan war
- Finals will be played in four batches with exactly quarter of the games in each batch


Sending games

Detailed schedule will be posted before each round in advance.
Penalty for being late sending or joining games will be one home game forfeiture per day unless opposing clan will agree to play the game out.


Timing out a turn

Timing out turns to gain strategic advantage is forbidden. However there will be no penalties for timing out a turn from CCup standpoint. Clans can arrange timing-out rule between themselves as they wish so, read next section for details.


Change of rules by mutual agreement

Clans are not allowed to invent new rules. Clans can tweak some rules for their round upon mutual agreement and my own confirmation.

Clans can change:

• Allowed settings — trench games limit can be changed
• Allowed settings — round limit can be changed to other options
• Fog of war courtesy can be dropped
• Timing-out rule can be added
• Tie-breaker format, such as map/settings and number of games it takes to break a tie
• Games exchange date can be changed, but not for more than 1 week

Those cannot be changed:

• Allowed maps
• Allowed settings — initial troops, play order, spoils, reinforcements, round length
• Number of games per round and their dubs/trips/quads proportion
• Player limit for each round

Site bugs, player bans and other unpredictable circumstances

Any game that has been crippled by some outer intervention can be replayed only if both clans agree to replay the game.


CCup host goes MIA

If I, Dako, disappear, anybody who has decent understanding of clan world can pick up CCup and finish it instead of me. If there will be no volunteers unanimously approved by clan people CDs are free to finish the CCup with their own forces or appoint new CCup host as they see fit.


============


This is only a draft. Please discuss it.

Dako.

[Dako]

There are some major changes in this set of rules.

Firstly, I reverted seeding to the ones we had in previous cups. They worked like a charm and I think we should try to preserve this idea in CCup. It is all about climbing to the top and proving your worth!

Secondly, I dropped CDF membership as a requirement. We don't use CDF for anything here, and since we only need privileges and medals we will conform to their reqs. Right now for privileges and medals you need 10+ members, 41+ games and one-clan rule. Those are the new reqs for clan eligibility.

Thirdly, I removed timing out rule. It is very subjective and subjective rules should not be the part of default CCup structure. However I am leaving it up to both clans to negotiate about penalties for timing out if they want to implement this rule.

Lastly, I have added a section which explains what will happen if I suddenly disappear.



Seedings and brackets were the most heated topics so far and since I have changed them to what we have already used and what was proven working there should not be any issues with this.

Right now it looks like we are very very close to a final version of CCup rules. I believe we will finalize them this week and I will open sign-ups on Monday.

Enjoy the cup,
Dako.

[eddie2]

well i am more than happy with this and would like to thank dako for listening to peoples comments...

aka are in

first contact eddie2 (yes i am actually going to run a war for aka again)
2nd contact (2 be confirmed)

15 player list to be confirmed......

[Vid_FISO]

first contact eddie2 (yes i am actually going to run a war for aka again)

This begs the question regarding complying with schedules

[IcePack]

Looks good looking forward to it

[The Voice]

That looks great, Dako. I think you hit the mark with this version.

[Genoke]

Good work here Dako! The right man on the right job?..

[Qwert]

well these look like kick in the ass to people who post any suggestion who are different.
First was
>> hie guys ,these topic its open for discussion, please give suggestion for CC4<<
and after 417 post with proposed several brackets system he say
>> Im just joking, i don't want to discuses about anything with seeding and draws, and i forbidden any discussion in future<<
And to not have any problems, its best to kick Cd&F out of competition, exclude clan representative votings,and copy paste CC3, with new rules created only by Dako.
Now i really don't understand why you open discussion topic, when you actually don't want to discus at all?

[chapcrap]

I think that the timing out rule was a fine rule, but since each clan can put it in their own rules themselves, I don't really care that it got eliminated. Everything else looks great to me.

[IcePack]

well these look like kick in the ass to people who post any suggestion who are different.
First was
>> hie guys ,these topic its open for discussion, please give suggestion for CC4<<
and after 417 post with proposed several brackets system he say
>> Im just joking, i don't want to discuses about anything with seeding and draws, and i forbidden any discussion in future<<
And to not have any problems, its best to kick Cd&F out of competition, exclude clan representative votings,and copy paste CC3, with new rules created only by Dako.
Now i really don't understand why you open discussion topic, when you actually don't want to discus at all?

I'm pretty sure if someone asks for discussion it doesn't mean every suggestion is going to be implemented. Clearly as you pointed out there was a lot of discussion on both sides of the topic. He opted after reading discussion to not change the seeding format.

Can you only open discussion on something if you gaurentee to change things? I know at work we discuss a lot of things and opt (after much discussion) to use the original plan .

Maybe you had unreasonable expectations

[Qwert]

well these look like kick in the ass to people who post any suggestion who are different.
First was
>> hie guys ,these topic its open for discussion, please give suggestion for CC4<<
and after 417 post with proposed several brackets system he say
>> Im just joking, i don't want to discuses about anything with seeding and draws, and i forbidden any discussion in future<<
And to not have any problems, its best to kick Cd&F out of competition, exclude clan representative votings,and copy paste CC3, with new rules created only by Dako.
Now i really don't understand why you open discussion topic, when you actually don't want to discus at all?

I'm pretty sure if someone asks for discussion it doesn't mean every suggestion is going to be implemented. Clearly as you pointed out there was a lot of discussion on both sides of the topic. He opted after reading discussion to not change the seeding format.

Can you only open discussion on something if you gaurentee to change things? I know at work we discuss a lot of things and opt (after much discussion) to use the original plan .

Maybe you had unreasonable expectations

Its not have nothing with your work,we are not employee of CC4, so that we all need to work by previous CC rules. This discussion are open, so that we can discuss to change something or to stay same, and each competitive clan have right to present hes ideas and suggestion, and then everybody have right to give opinion about that, and if necessary to vote.
Dako on hes own, decide that need to stay like in previous Cup,and make fool of all who suggest changes.

[Doc_Brown]

well these look like kick in the ass to people who post any suggestion who are different.
First was
>> hie guys ,these topic its open for discussion, please give suggestion for CC4<<
and after 417 post with proposed several brackets system he say
>> Im just joking, i don't want to discuses about anything with seeding and draws, and i forbidden any discussion in future<<
And to not have any problems, its best to kick Cd&F out of competition, exclude clan representative votings,and copy paste CC3, with new rules created only by Dako.
Now i really don't understand why you open discussion topic, when you actually don't want to discus at all?

I'm pretty sure if someone asks for discussion it doesn't mean every suggestion is going to be implemented. Clearly as you pointed out there was a lot of discussion on both sides of the topic. He opted after reading discussion to not change the seeding format.

Can you only open discussion on something if you gaurentee to change things? I know at work we discuss a lot of things and opt (after much discussion) to use the original plan .

Maybe you had unreasonable expectations

Its not have nothing with your work,we are not employee of CC4, so that we all need to work by previous CC rules. This discussion are open, so that we can discuss to change something or to stay same, and each competitive clan have right to present hes ideas and suggestion, and then everybody have right to give opinion about that, and if necessary to vote.
Dako on hes own, decide that need to stay like in previous Cup,and make fool of all who suggest changes.

Not at all qwert. There were quite a few comments from people that preferred sticking with the simple brackets that had been used in the past. Dako attempted to incorporate a couple of the presented concepts into V4 (and was promptly blasted for doing so), so he's clearly not ignoring the various proposals. We had a long discussion about possible changes to the format, and Dako ultimately had to make a decision which approach to take. I think it was the right one, and based on the feedback since he released V5, it looks like most of the other people agree.

[Keefie]

Sorry but I back Qwert on this one.

There has been an underlying implication running all of the way through this thread that there would be a vote in CD&F regarding seeding and the draw. I'm pretty shocked that this will not happen now.

[IcePack]

Sorry but I back Qwert on this one.

There has been an underlying implication running all of the way through this thread that there would be a vote in CD&F regarding seeding and the draw. I'm pretty shocked that this will not happen now.

I'm pretty sure several people (you, qwert, josko, perhaps CD's) mentioned it but I dont believe Dako ever said (nor implied) he was going to hold a vote regarding seeding.

[chemefreak]

Sorry but I back Qwert on this one.

There has been an underlying implication running all of the way through this thread that there would be a vote in CD&F regarding seeding and the draw. I'm pretty shocked that this will not happen now.

+1