THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

[IcePack]

I guess the CD's will decide. I'm not going to debate another 30 pages on things again. Since they want everything a vote, why not vote on the vote.

[josko.ri]

I guess the CD's will decide. I'm not going to debate another 30 pages on things again. Since they want everything a vote, why not vote on the vote.

If there will be vote on a vote then i would propose third option, similar like your but points do not go 4,3,2,1 but rather go exponential 8,4,2,1. First choice of anyone need to have more weight than 4 Points compared to 3 points which is almost no difference.

[IcePack]

I guess the CD's will decide. I'm not going to debate another 30 pages on things again. Since they want everything a vote, why not vote on the vote.

If there will be vote on a vote then i would propose third option, similar like your but points do not go 4,3,2,1 but rather go exponential 8,4,2,1. First choice of anyone need to have more weight than 4 Points compared to 3 points which is almost no difference.

thats fine with me. Did we just agree to something?

[Qwert]

Also, one question for qwert for proposal 4a, as I am not sure if I understand his idea in total: Which is time of making draw for each round in your idea? Is it the whole draw for the whole tournament made at the beginning of the tournament (draw is made just once during the tournament), or draw for every round will be done before start of the round according to current rank at the date of every draw (draw is made before every round = 5 times during the tournament)?

well, its could made draw in advance for each round, or could make draw when each round are finished. Its depend what people like, if they want to have supprise,then draw will be after each finished round,, if they dont want supprise, then draw could be in advance.

One addition, what its written in scheme,,its that for top 8 , bracket could be transfered in normal bracket, and these mean that, you could have fixed bracket, where competition continue like normal bracket:
example
Top 16> [winner 1 vs winner 2] vs [winner 3 vs winner 4]

or total random--8 winners in one pot>random paired

you have many variations, and could add many interesting ending with these kind of bracket competition. Its up to people to decide what sound most interesting for play.

[jetsetwilly]

I guess the CD's will decide. I'm not going to debate another 30 pages on things again. Since they want everything a vote, why not vote on the vote.

If there will be vote on a vote then i would propose third option, similar like your but points do not go 4,3,2,1 but rather go exponential 8,4,2,1. First choice of anyone need to have more weight than 4 Points compared to 3 points which is almost no difference.

thats fine with me. Did we just agree to something?

lol the universe is going to implode !

[Crazyirishman]

Maybe I'm just weird, but I think there's a bit of a difference between what people could hypothetically do, and what they would do in reality. I mean, I'm sure you could get a rogue who bands together with 5 other people to vote something they think 2nd best to be the worst but that doesn't seem very intuitive or natural.

But as long as we're riding along on the hypothetical voting train, if everybody did that the thing that was listed above, then ultimately the option least liked by all could be chosen as the most popular by total tally point and we'd all look like a bunch of retards for trying to be so clever by manipulating a voting system.

This is why I personally (just call me crazy) think that when people are presented with a vote, they will take the easy route and vote in accordance with how they actually fucking think, instead of constructing an intricate web of deception voting to propel their genius idea to the top.

[eddie2]

Maybe I'm just weird, but I think there's a bit of a difference between what people could hypothetically do, and what they would do in reality. I mean, I'm sure you could get a rogue who bands together with 5 other people to vote something they think 2nd best to be the worst but that doesn't seem very intuitive or natural.

But as long as we're riding along on the hypothetical voting train, if everybody did that the thing that was listed above, then ultimately the option least like by all could be chosen as the most popular by total tally point and we'd all look like a bunch of retards for trying to be so clever by manipulating a voting system.

This is why I personally (just call me crazy) think that when people are presented with a vote, they will take the easy route and vote in accordance with how they actually fucking think, instead of constructing an intricate web of deception voting to propel their genius idea to the top.

rofl plus 1.........

[freakns]

enough gibbering...
you lads posted 50 pages of talk without posting single picture of naked woman, and you expect us to read it?! no way jose...

put the vote into CDF, let us vote, and decide it. or let Dako run it to his own free will. either way, no more discussion.

[jetsetwilly]

enough gibbering...
you lads posted 50 pages of talk without posting single picture of naked woman, and you expect us to read it?! no way jose...

put the vote into CDF, let us vote, and decide it. or let Dako run it to his own free will. either way, no more discussion.

The options are up, it's just a last chance to make sure they are all understood before we vote. You don't need to read all the rest!

[eddie2]

enough gibbering...
you lads posted 50 pages of talk without posting single picture of naked woman, and you expect us to read it?! no way jose...

put the vote into CDF, let us vote, and decide it. or let Dako run it to his own free will. either way, no more discussion.

The options are up, it's just a last chance to make sure they are all understood before we vote. You don't need to read all the rest!

-1 lol of course this giving the events back to the clans the mods have been talking about really means do what we say or want to happen or it won't.. they choose what issues get voted on or what rules they want in place. the clan mods (via the use of cdf) are making a joke of us all, they say cdf is not like cla well i got to agree there. only due to the fact cla really didn't have authority to say do what i say or it wont happen like what the clan mods are doing.. as long as you agree with what they want and want to do they will be ok with you as soon as you disagree they will use the card we are in charge of the section so really what we say goes....

[chapcrap]

Is there any reasonable kind of time frame for when this might start?

[jghost7]

If any random element were to be involved, then I would suggest that the top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

I think this will also address the anomalies of good clans starting at the bottom, like Atlantis, if they get to join, are obviously stronger than their rank would indicate.


Here is an example of what it looks like before the draw:


Once the drawing is held, then we would fill in the bracket and proceed like a normal bracket tournament.

It is simple and straightforward.

Thanks,

J

[IcePack]

If any random element were to be involved, then I would suggest that the top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

I think this will also address the anomalies of good clans starting at the bottom, like Atlantis, if they get to join, are obviously stronger than their rank would indicate.


Here is an example of what it looks like before the draw:


Once the drawing is held, then we would fill in the bracket and proceed like a normal bracket tournament.

It is simple and straightforward.

Thanks,

J

This is pretty close to what i had pm'd jet about as well, IF we were to go a random route. This is kinda where i would prefer it head.

[Qwert]

these above its same like classic bracket-- low ranked clans could just quit to play,,because hes chances to get medals are close to zero. I realy dont understand what you have against that in round 1 clans from 17 to 32 play betwene? Why dont give hem equal opponents in first round? Why do you want to play against low ranked right in first round?
I can bet that any high ranked clan, will try to avoide to play against 32 ranked clan(except fall, or im wrong). I realy dont see any benefit to play in first round with easy opponent, but maybe you can see?

[IcePack]

these above its same like classic bracket-- low ranked clans could just quit to play,,because hes chances to get medals are close to zero. I realy dont understand what you have against that in round 1 clans from 17 to 32 play betwene? Why dont give hem equal opponents in first round? Why do you want to play against low ranked right in first round?

It isn't the same, opponents are drawn at random for first round. I still prefer the classic bracket, not any random involved.
But, we debated this for 30 pages in the other thread. I'm not about to start again. The CD's will hold a vote, and everyone can move on. I certainly dont want to discuss the same things over and over as the other thread, for 30 pages. if you and josko want to add another 25 pages here, knock yourselves out.

IcePack

[jetsetwilly]

If any random element were to be involved, then I would suggest that the top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

I think this will also address the anomalies of good clans starting at the bottom, like Atlantis, if they get to join, are obviously stronger than their rank would indicate.


Here is an example of what it looks like before the draw:


Once the drawing is held, then we would fill in the bracket and proceed like a normal bracket tournament.

It is simple and straightforward.

Thanks,

J

Rather than put in a 5th option we can change option 3 to look like this. I don't think option 3 as it currently stands has had a huge deal of support and this option is probably more of a half way house between 1 and 2. Two of you have suggested it so I'm happy to make that final change. We would love to include every variation but the list can only be so long to be practical.

[jghost7]

...

1.Fixed bracket system

Top clans are kept apart for as long as possible using the F400 and you know who are likely to meet as the cup progresses.

Option 1 - CC3 Example

2. An entirely random draw for every round.

For round 1 the 32 teams are pulled from a hat at random
For round 2 the 16 remaining teams are pulled from a hat at random.
etc.

top clans could meet each other in an early round and we might see some big name casualties.

Option 2

3. Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1 then proceed with a bracket.

The top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

Option 3

4. Alternative system

Clans 1-8 get a bye in Rounds 1 and 2 and join from Round 3
Clans 9-16 get a bye in Round 2 and join in Round 2

There are 2 similar alternatives within option 4 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 4a uses a random method of pairing the clans. 4b uses a bracket system.

4a:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are randomly paired with the clans ranked 25-32
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are randomly paired with the winners from R1
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are randomly paired with the winers from R2
QF: Remainng clans ranked 1-4 are randomly paired with those ranked 4-8
SF: Remaining clans ranked 1-2 are randomly paried with those ranked 3-4

4b:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are paired with the clans ranked 25-32 using the system 17v32; 18v31 ... 24v25
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are paired with the 8 winners from R1. 9v(24v25); 10v(23v26) ... 16v(17v32)
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are paired with the winners from R2. 1-8. 1v[16v(17v32)]; 2v[15v(18v31)] ... 8v[9v(24v25)]
QF: Remaining 8 clans - 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 (or winners of their previous matches)
SF: Remaining 4 clans - 1v4, 2v3 (or winners of their previous matches)

Option 4a

As with 4, can 1 and 3 be combined to 1a and 1b due to their similar structure. I am sure that they are similarly matched in content. I think the following will more accurately produce the results you desire:

1.Seeded bracket system


There are two similar options within option 1 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 1a uses a strict seeding method for the entire bracket to pair the clans.
Option 1b uses seeding for the top half of the bracket to pair the clans with a randomly drawn opponent.

Option 1a - Seed the entire bracket

Top clans are kept apart for as long as possible using the F400 and you know who are likely to meet as the cup progresses.

Option 1b - Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1

3. Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1 then proceed with a bracket.

The top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

2. An entirely random draw for every round.

For round 1 the 32 teams are pulled from a hat at random
For round 2 the 16 remaining teams are pulled from a hat at random.
etc.

top clans could meet each other in an early round and we might see some big name casualties.

Option 2

3. Alternative system

Clans 1-8 get a bye in Rounds 1 and 2 and join from Round 3
Clans 9-16 get a bye in Round 2 and join in Round 2

There are 2 similar alternatives within option 3 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 3a uses a random method of pairing the clans. 3b uses a bracket system.

3a:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are randomly paired with the clans ranked 25-32
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are randomly paired with the winners from R1
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are randomly paired with the winers from R2
QF: Remainng clans ranked 1-4 are randomly paired with those ranked 4-8
SF: Remaining clans ranked 1-2 are randomly paried with those ranked 3-4

3b:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are paired with the clans ranked 25-32 using the system 17v32; 18v31 ... 24v25
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are paired with the 8 winners from R1. 9v(24v25); 10v(23v26) ... 16v(17v32)
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are paired with the winners from R2. 1-8. 1v[16v(17v32)]; 2v[15v(18v31)] ... 8v[9v(24v25)]
QF: Remaining 8 clans - 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 (or winners of their previous matches)
SF: Remaining 4 clans - 1v4, 2v3 (or winners of their previous matches)

Option 3a

I truly think this would be the best way to present this.

Thanks,

J

[jetsetwilly]

I think this is a very sensible suggestion to simplify the voting. This is the final change we have time to make ahead of the vote tomorrow.

I will pm all the reps again to ensure they have seen the change. In the event that any clan has begun to run an internal vote already they can add the votes for the previous 1 and 3 together.

1.Seeded bracket system


There are two similar options within option 1 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 1a uses a strict seeding method for the entire bracket to pair the clans.
Option 1b uses seeding for the top half of the bracket to pair the clans with a randomly drawn opponent.

Option 1a - Seed the entire bracket

Top clans are kept apart for as long as possible using the F400 and you know who are likely to meet as the cup progresses.

Option 1b - Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1

3. Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1 then proceed with a bracket.

The top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

2. An entirely random draw for every round.

For round 1 the 32 teams are pulled from a hat at random
For round 2 the 16 remaining teams are pulled from a hat at random.
etc.

top clans could meet each other in an early round and we might see some big name casualties.

Option 2

3. Alternative system

Clans 1-8 get a bye in Rounds 1 and 2 and join from Round 3
Clans 9-16 get a bye in Round 2 and join in Round 2

There are 2 similar alternatives within option 3 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 3a uses a random method of pairing the clans. 3b uses a bracket system.

3a:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are randomly paired with the clans ranked 25-32
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are randomly paired with the winners from R1
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are randomly paired with the winers from R2
QF: Remainng clans ranked 1-4 are randomly paired with those ranked 4-8
SF: Remaining clans ranked 1-2 are randomly paried with those ranked 3-4

3b:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are paired with the clans ranked 25-32 using the system 17v32; 18v31 ... 24v25
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are paired with the 8 winners from R1. 9v(24v25); 10v(23v26) ... 16v(17v32)
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are paired with the winners from R2. 1-8. 1v[16v(17v32)]; 2v[15v(18v31)] ... 8v[9v(24v25)]
QF: Remaining 8 clans - 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 (or winners of their previous matches)
SF: Remaining 4 clans - 1v4, 2v3 (or winners of their previous matches)

Option 3a

[BGtheBrain]

TNC votes #2

[Keefie]

Keep your powder dry BG, this isn't the vote thread

[BGtheBrain]

Hmmmm
unvote

[HardAttack]

Deliberately timing out in Escalating and Nuclear games to avoid taking a spoil will not be tolerated by any players.

This is ABSOLUTELY weird.
Once i turn it, how dare you speak/call it what i am gonna do, what i am gonna like to do ?
Maybe, you may like to show me/say it where to attack then it s all fine and stay inside rules, and where not to attack ?

Before i go more spesific, do you hear what you say here ? Someone please put down some logic to proove you are any correct in this.
You are simply pushing a player's strategy here...Well that and this annoys me big time.
I dont know who made your CDs and stuff, but you are not there to tell me if i am gonna run out time, miss my card, deliberately or unconciously...
How dare you put your nose in way i play my game ?

[HardAttack]

Deliberately timing out in Escalating and Nuclear games to avoid taking a spoil will not be tolerated by any players.

This is ABSOLUTELY weird.
Once i turn it, how dare you speak/call it what i am gonna do, what i am gonna like to do ?
Maybe, you may like to show me/say it where to attack then it s all fine and stay inside rules, and where not to attack ?

Before i go more spesific, do you hear what you say here ? Someone please put down some logic to proove you are any correct in this.
You are simply pushing a player's strategy here...Well that and this annoys me big time.
I dont know who made your CDs and stuff, but you are not there to tell me if i am gonna run out time, miss my card, deliberately or unconciously...
How dare you put your nose in way i play my game ?

To add one more, here one comes from me,

what bout LETS UNWELLCOME team mate killing for recash in escalating games ?

[ahunda]

HA, stop attacking the CDs for this. You obviously don´t know the history & background of this rule.

This goes back to a long debate right here in the public Clans forum, where a great majority, lots of players from different clans, almost unanimously deemed this practice unacceptable & wanted to ban it from clan games.

If you don´t like it, then feel free to argue & maybe ask for a new vote on the issue, but don´t blame the CDs for it. It was not their personal idea or initiative.

What we are talking about are situations like this: Team 1 has nailed Team 2 to the wall, forced them into a situation, where they either need to break a bonus of Team 1, thus getting a card & setting themselves up for a kill with midturn-cash (which will likely mean the win for Team 1) or leave the bonus alone (which will likely mean the win for Team 1 as well). Now Team 2 goes ahead, breaks the bonus, but then times out & doesn´t get the card.

That´s cheap play, abuse of a loophole, as close to cheating as you can get. And I for one don´t want to see this kind of thing happening. So the rule has my full support.

[Ace Rimmer]

That´s cheap play, abuse of a loophole, as close to cheating as you can get. And I for one don´t want to see this kind of thing happening. So the rule has my full support.

Conquer Club was created in January 2006 with the option to time out your turn and not get a card. It is now March 2013. This part of the game mechanism has been in place for over 7 years. This is not a loophole, this is how the site and game mechanics were designed. You can disagree with it (personally I think that you should get a card as long as you conquer/bombard a terit to zero regardless of whether or not you click End Turn) but I would not call it a loophole. It is working as designed.

Compare this to the way that team games finished when they hit a round limit. It was originally set up for the PLAYER with the most troops to get the win for his team (instead of the TEAM with the most troops). This was changed after public opposition. If there is an issue with the game mechanics allowing conquering without cards, then the game mechanics should be changed, there should not be a subjective rule in place to address this issue.

Conquering and timing out is a strategic option (the same as teammate killing, or trimming a stack without conquering, or starting a turn, dropping on a teammate, and not attacking).

Ace