THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

[BGtheBrain]

Wow. Typical thug mentality. Wouldn't expect any better.

Ill head back to the actual thread that matters now.

[Chariot of Fire]

Yeah, if you can't handle the heat.....

Good post Foxy, thank you.

[Leehar]

Lets keep it frosty folks.

Everyone is entitled to lending their own views to this discussion, and while BG may be presenting his own perspective with being in a clan that plays many wars simultaneously, it's not a completely uncommon viewpoint.
Obviously it's hard to keep track with so many discussions over the last few weeks, but we actually already treaded over similar territory (Of the Cup starting while the previous one was still ongoing) when Dako made his first schedule http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... t#p4083384

Heck, even Bruce has sometimes been vocal about Kort not needing much of a break after their previous Cup victories.

So yes, perhaps it's a bit of a stretch to have Cup finalists play in the 1st round simultaneously, specially if there's no seeding, but there's no need to shoot people over participating in this discourse



Also, it seems unlikely that Random will be a clear winner, but since Option 1 is currently in a firm 2nd-place, instead of having a run-off between those 2 options, which would just polarise positions, would anyone be interested in instead having the run-off between the compromise positions that differing people have offered (and what exactly are the mechanics of them?)

[Great-Ollie]

Ok , not that my opinion will matter but i thought i would post my thoughts anyhow. For a top ranked clan option 1 is, and will always be the best option for us. It allows us to play lower ranked clans and get farther into the tournament, without too much trouble. Then the excitement comes from basically the last 8 clans left. Now we need to look at option 1 from the lower ranked clans perspective as well. They get basically 1 war and blamm, the event is over for them before they get any momentum, or fun for the event itself. Ya it is easy to say that option 1 is fun when you are on the high ranked clans side of the fence. When you look at having the event be a success and appeal to all clans, I can honestly see where option 2 seems like a better idea. The same problem arises if Kort draws Tofu first round though as well. One of the best clans will not get to enjoy the event and be out first round. I believe there is not a sure winner that will appeal to every clan here. I think we all need to chill out and accept whatever option is decided upon in the voting process. We know that option 2 will probably come to light, so let's accept it and try to make the most of it. Of coarse all the top clans enjoyed the old format, and events, because they got to enjoy the process of advancing into the later rounds. The same cannot be said for a 32 ranked clan when they play Kort first war and get beat 45-15. This way may seem unfair to higher ranked clans, but to lower ranked clans it is the only fair way to allow them a chance to enjoy the event. In the end it should not matter if you play Kort, Tofu, TSM, AOC on your way to winning cup, it just means you truly earned it. Again this is just my opinion and not the opinion of my clan. I am in support of whatever will make this event fun for top level clan, as well as lower ranked clans. We have to face that we all cannot get our way here, so let's just agree to disagree and have some fun?

[IcePack]

Also, it seems unlikely that Random will be a clear winner, but since Option 1 is currently in a firm 2nd-place, instead of having a run-off between those 2 options, which would just polarise positions, would anyone be interested in instead having the run-off between the compromise positions that differing people have offered (and what exactly are the mechanics of them?)

Wait, it's been said since the beginning it would be a vote between the two top choices. That should not be changed now.

I proposed a ranking vote system, you would have known people's opinion on all options. Instead, you (CD's not you leehar) choose this one. If option 1 is choice #2 it should be the runoff. If you want to compromise and make everybody happy, then pick the option and go with it and save everybody the trouble of another 10 pages of debate and voting.

But changing the vote cuz it didn't go one way is just making things worse

[Qwert]

i still believe that option 3 are better option , who are make compromise between low and high clans, something what option 1 and 2 can not achieve.

well get ready for total random draw,, these will be interesting to watch.

[jetsetwilly]

i still believe that option 3 are better option , who are make compromise between low and high clans, something what option 1 and 2 can not achieve.

well get ready for total random draw,, these will be interesting to watch.

Sorry Qwert, for the record we voted for 3 but it's going to be eliminated ahead of the run off.

[jghost7]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

[Leehar]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

Does Option 2 deserve to have a 2B as well?
ie First Round Bye's/Seeds to the top 4/8, random everywhere else (FA Cup style?)

[jghost7]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

Does Option 2 deserve to have a 2B as well?
ie First Round Bye's/Seeds to the top 4/8, random everywhere else (FA Cup style?)

..
I don't think so. Others may disagree. The options were set prior to the vote. I don't think that changing the options mid-vote is a good idea. Besides, the 5 day time period has expired.

Doesn't that option fit similarly along the lines with what 3a is with slightly less structure?


Thanks,

J

[Qwert]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

Does Option 2 deserve to have a 2B as well?
ie First Round Bye's/Seeds to the top 4/8, random everywhere else (FA Cup style?)

People who vote for option 2,, want total random draw, no byes mention.

[crispybits]

Not true - I for one have suggested a way to make a totally random draw balanced, CoF has suggested a totally random draw with byes for the semifinalists of CCup3, others have suggested seeding the top 8 and drawing the rest randomly around them. All of those are much closer to option 2 than any other option.

[IcePack]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

Does Option 2 deserve to have a 2B as well?
ie First Round Bye's/Seeds to the top 4/8, random everywhere else (FA Cup style?)

Like jghost said, the votes already expired. What's w the late push to alter the vote structure / options? Seriously, if we weren't ready to vote and wanted to keep discussing why did CD's start vote and put a 5 day time limit?

[Bruceswar]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

Does Option 2 deserve to have a 2B as well?
ie First Round Bye's/Seeds to the top 4/8, random everywhere else (FA Cup style?)

Like jghost said, the votes already expired. What's w the late push to alter the vote structure / options? Seriously, if we weren't ready to vote and wanted to keep discussing why did CD's start vote and put a 5 day time limit?

Stop being so worried about the exact times. It is Easter. CD's have lives also. Relax a bit and go hunt some eggs.

[IcePack]

Just a reminder, option 1b does have a random element to it.

Thanks,

J

Does Option 2 deserve to have a 2B as well?
ie First Round Bye's/Seeds to the top 4/8, random everywhere else (FA Cup style?)

Like jghost said, the votes already expired. What's w the late push to alter the vote structure / options? Seriously, if we weren't ready to vote and wanted to keep discussing why did CD's start vote and put a 5 day time limit?

Stop being so worried about the exact times. It is Easter. CD's have lives also. Relax a bit and go hunt some eggs.

I'm not worried about times. I also have a life thanks bruce. What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

[crispybits]

There is no push, there is a suggestion. And as evidenced in this thread there have been other suggestions of varying shades of grey between options 1 and 2 made out of a desire to compromise and meet the wishes of all clans since the vote was opened. All I have done is asked if these will be considered, as I believe all of them have merit and the final decision should be the one that brings the most amount of agreement between the most number of clans.

[Chariot of Fire]

There is no push, there is a suggestion. And as evidenced in this thread there have been other suggestions of varying shades of grey between options 1 and 2 made out of a desire to compromise and meet the wishes of all clans since the vote was opened. All I have done is asked if these will be considered, as I believe all of them have merit and the final decision should be the one that brings the most amount of agreement between the most number of clans.

[Keefie]

I'm not worried about times. I also have a life thanks bruce. What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

Because options 1 and 2 are the most divisive options. If anything can be done to tweak either that will keep the vast majority happy then I'm sure the CD's will consider it.

Many of us are prepared to compromise, a word that appears not to be in your dictionary.

[IcePack]

I'm not worried about times. I also have a life thanks bruce. What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

Because options 1 and 2 are the most divisive options. If anything can be done to tweak either that will keep the vast majority happy then I'm sure the CD's will consider it.

Many of us are prepared to compromise, a word that appears not to be in your dictionary.

Funny, I've posted many times about compromises. Apparently you are a selective reader. But, if the CD's are running things and thought we were ready for an official vote, that took a lot of time out of peoples discussions within their clans etc. I think its absolutely insulting to go back now afterwards, and try to change it because the vote didn't go how some people wanted or the most compromising way.

The whole point of the CD's taking over was to hold votes on the majority opinion. They set up their system of vote. Its happening right now. Its created a bunch of divides, and heart aches. Now some dont like the results, so we try to change it after the vote? WTF.

If we're just going to go to a compromise, skip the fucking vote, save everyone the time and hassle of discussing with their clans, and they can pick what they obviously feel is the correct choice and make everyone accept or reject it.

[niMic]

There is no push, there is a suggestion. And as evidenced in this thread there have been other suggestions of varying shades of grey between options 1 and 2 made out of a desire to compromise and meet the wishes of all clans since the vote was opened. All I have done is asked if these will be considered, as I believe all of them have merit and the final decision should be the one that brings the most amount of agreement between the most number of clans.

To be completely frank, people had a lot of time to bring forward alternatives. The options that are being voted on now were the ones with considerable backing that were put forward. It would make a farce of the process to ignore that entire sequence of events and create completely new middle ground compromises. If anything of the sort was to happen, then we need a new deadline for suggestions and a completely new vote.

We should proceed with planned second vote between the top two choices, and let the chips fall where they will.

[jetsetwilly]

I will post below the draft for vote 2 that the CD's spent much time discussing yesterday.

We were keen to both maintain the democratic process we set out but also to try to get this a little closer to the middle if we could. We also need a swift resolution, we can't have votes going on forever.

We believe this is the closest we could get to achieving that goal.




Run off vote:

We have noted all the feedback on the cup format and as we proceed with the run off vote we have made a small change that we hope will take us closer to a middle ground on what is clearly a divisive issue.

You have 48 hours to make your choice. Please vote 1 or 2, you should not distinguish between a and b


If either option takes more than 75% of the total vote then it is declared the outright winner.

If Option 1 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 1 b which does introduce a significant random element purely to round 1.

If Option 2 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 2 b which introduces a significant seeded element purely to round 1.



In all cases we are assuming a play in round to get us down to 32 clans. All seeding will be taken from the F400 at the agreed start point.

If more than 32 clans do enter, then we can review the chosen option to see if a play in round was the most appropriate or if the system can be modified to cope with a different number.


1.Seeded bracket system


Option 1a uses a strict seeding method for the entire bracket to pair the clans.
Option 1b uses seeding for the top half of the bracket to pair the clans with a randomly drawn opponent.

Option 1a - Seed the entire bracket

Top clans are kept apart for as long as possible using the F400 and you know who are likely to meet as the cup progresses.

Option 1b - Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1

3. Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1 then proceed with a bracket.

The top 16 clans according to the F400 be seeded accordingly, and then you can randomly draw their opponents. Play from there would be from the bracket.

2. An entirely random draw for every round.

Option 2a - Full random for every round
Option 2b - The top 8 seeded clans are kept apart in round 1. The other x clans are paired randomly. All remaining rounds will see the clans paired randomly.

[eddie2]

huhhh is there much difference between any of these.... i would personally like to see a total random draw for round 1 with a bracket running to the end..(not that it counts much because i will not be taking part)

so that if the draw order is..

kort
aka
the pack
tofu

kort will play aka the pack tofu then 2nd round will be the winner of these 2 games facing each other... or we could go with what i said before where....
top 25 play one side of the bracket bottom 25 other side with a random draw first round.... this will make it that a bottom half clan will have a chance to progress to the final gaining experiance as it goes along.

[IcePack]

I posted my thoughts on the new vote in CDF...

[josko.ri]

I posted my thoughts on the new vote in CDF...

You change your thoughts on daily basis, according to how are chances going for your solution.

What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

And just a day before that post, you were the one who suggested changing terms and items in the ongoing vote.

Posted in CDF as well, but:

What about option 1 where instead of 1 v 32, 2 v 31, 3 v 30...18 v 19
It's 1 v 19, 2 v 20, 3 v 21... 18 v 32

Each clan has an equally lower opponent then the next

It seems like You cannot be consistent even with your own opinion.

[IcePack]

I posted my thoughts on the new vote in CDF...

You change your thoughts on daily basis, according to how are chances going for your solution.

What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

And just a day before that post, you were the one who suggested changing terms and items in the ongoing vote.

Posted in CDF as well, but:

What about option 1 where instead of 1 v 32, 2 v 31, 3 v 30...18 v 19
It's 1 v 19, 2 v 20, 3 v 21... 18 v 32

Each clan has an equally lower opponent then the next

It seems like You cannot be consistent even with your own opinion.

Hi josko,
I haven't changed my stance. Where did I suggest it get added to the vote? That second post was an idea I had for possible future consideration.
I don't have a problem with discussing options for future cups or how to avoid this disaster next year, but it's stupid to change te vote now.
You continue to seem to have selective reading and difficulty understanding some basic posts I've made or changing them to fit whatever your viewpoint is. Which is why, I said I won't debate you anymore on this topic. So I will clarify my posts so you can understand, but not going to debate all day again about it.
Thanks,
IcePack