End Game: Town Wins! (Island Mafia)

[zimmah]

maybe it was just poor grammar, like he meant to say: "I have no night actions, just like a VT has none".

however the poor wording made it sound like he had one.

I don't know how i feel about lynching him though, miss-lynching a back-up role doesn't seem that bad, especially not since we only lost 1 guy last night. so the worst case scenario isn't all that bad.

On the other hand though, since we already pretty much had a very similar discussion yesterday, it will not really lead to much new cases, which might hurt us in the long run.

I'm leaning more towards poor wording and poor play instead of really doubting his alignment at this point. Mostly because i can't really imagine why he would even try to get away with the things he said if he meant it in a harmful way. You'd have to make a pretty big WIFOM conspiracy theory on his motives, and i don't think that's very reasonable, the best solution is often much simpler.

[Djfireside]

well, it could have been worse.

also, since the scene said aage knew who was innocent (his target was sleeping, so probably someone without night actions, like a double voter maybe) if we can somehow find out who aage visited we would have some useful information.

when i have more time on my hands i'll also read back day 1 or at least my notes to see if knowing aage is innocent would shed some light on day 1 conversations.

fastposted 3 times. i am really confused about rishaed now.

Sorry I forgot to consider the fact that there could be others without night actions. I just have a pretty good idea that he probably tracked me, who went nowhere. That being said last night could have been worse, we could have lost two townies instead of one. The bad part is we just lost our tracker. However in a NV game I'm not sure just how much that will affect us.

You forgot there are others without night actions?!?

What does that mean? All we got out of the scene was that Aage investigated someone who was innocent. As much as you would like to think they visited you, I would bet he didnt simply from their own accord since they believed you.

The question is now since he drew attention from two different points there has to be something to it. The information I know thus far is they apparently laid off Rish, left their vote on Doom, and im search for anything that would cause the hit espiecally since aage has history and turns out to be a common target sometimes.

As others would say this confirms the SK I would assume unless there is a overachieving JOAT in the mix.

[sheepofdumb]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

[Iron Butterfly]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

Explain what the motive would be other then that Zimmah is mafia and Aaage was town.

[zimmah]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

you really think i'd be that stupid?

you'll probably call OMGUS on this, but you're being very suspicious now.

[sheepofdumb]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

Explain what the motive would be other then that Zimmah is mafia and Aaage was town.

Zimmah seemed pretty stressed out by aage. To the point where he hinted that he'd leave the game if the pressure on him kept up. I could see Zimmah getting back at aage for the stress caused.

[sheepofdumb]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

you really think i'd be that stupid?

you'll probably call OMGUS on this, but you're being very suspicious now.

Sorry for the double post.

Stupid, no, and your response is exactly why. Framing people is a typical scum tactic. Early game it's pretty easy to shrug off pressure by claiming someone framed you. So by framing yourself you can keep people off of you. After all, do they really think you'd be that stupid?

[rishaed]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

Explain what the motive would be other then that Zimmah is mafia and Aaage was town.

Zimmah seemed pretty stressed out by aage. To the point where he hinted that he'd leave the game if the pressure on him kept up. I could see Zimmah getting back at aage for the stress caused.

I could only count this as likely if and only if Zimmah was Mafia and not SK. Even then I would wager a less than 10% chance on the fact that Zimmah is Mafia/SK atm. Without knowing he was a tracker, the chances are that the Mafia/SK picked a very known player that was good as a first target and that they could set a easy lynch up the next day for supposing all went smoothly. So FoS Sheep.

[safariguy5]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

Explain what the motive would be other then that Zimmah is mafia and Aaage was town.

Zimmah seemed pretty stressed out by aage. To the point where he hinted that he'd leave the game if the pressure on him kept up. I could see Zimmah getting back at aage for the stress caused.

I could only count this as likely if and only if Zimmah was Mafia and not SK. Even then I would wager a less than 10% chance on the fact that Zimmah is Mafia/SK atm. Without knowing he was a tracker, the chances are that the Mafia/SK picked a very known player that was good as a first target and that they could set a easy lynch up the next day for supposing all went smoothly. So FoS Sheep.

I know that sheep's argument is based heavily on WIFOM and Meta, but I don't see how you can swing completely the other way and say that you don't think zimmah is mafia based more or less on the same principles of WIFOM and Meta. To say that zimmah is being framed by the anti town roles for an easy lynched based on killing aage is purely WIFOM as well. So your FOS is misguided.

This is too much bad play for me to give you the benefit of the doubt rishaed.

vote rishaed

[Nebuchadnezer]

There is a whole lot of WIFOM flying around here. Both Sheep and Rishaed are taking big leaps here. For Rishaed, it's just another misstep in the long list of problems for him this game. A WIFOM on Sheep's WIFOM?...nice.
My shortlist has both Zimmah and Rishaed on it, so I can't fault Sheep based on Zimmah's D1 play. However, Sheep's WIFOM isn't the reason I would vote Zimmah. So, I could agree with Sheep's vote, but not his WIFOM reason...if nothing else, Sheep's vote at least brought out another OMGUS statement from Zimmah...

I'm still leaning Rishaed here. Ah, heck, I'll make it official. VOTE Rishaed No point in beating around the bush. He's made too many errors for me, and it doesn't look like anything useful is coming up from last night.

[rishaed]

Yesterday I thought Zimmah was just playing poor. But with aage dead I think Zimmah might be one of the killers. aage pissed Zimmah off yesterday and now he's dead. It's very easy to say that someone set you up in these games. Zimmah had scum tells and now we have a motive. Vote Zimmah

Explain what the motive would be other then that Zimmah is mafia and Aaage was town.

Zimmah seemed pretty stressed out by aage. To the point where he hinted that he'd leave the game if the pressure on him kept up. I could see Zimmah getting back at aage for the stress caused.

I could only count this as likely if and only if Zimmah was Mafia and not SK. Even then I would wager a less than 10% chance on the fact that Zimmah is Mafia/SK atm. Without knowing he was a tracker, the chances are that the Mafia/SK picked a very known player that was good as a first target and that they could set a easy lynch up the next day for supposing all went smoothly. So FoS Sheep.

I know that sheep's argument is based heavily on WIFOM and Meta, but I don't see how you can swing completely the other way and say that you don't think zimmah is mafia based more or less on the same principles of WIFOM and Meta. To say that zimmah is being framed by the anti town roles for an easy lynched based on killing aage is purely WIFOM as well. So your FOS is misguided.

This is too much bad play for me to give you the benefit of the doubt rishaed.

vote rishaed

If you notice I said it was unlikely, not that it wasn't a possibility. It wasn't bad play on my part either. I actually will defend my last statement. It was an analysis of what I would do as Scum if I were scum, thus "roleplaying". What you and Neb are doing is #2 Scum route I would choose if it arose. Why? Because Town Lynches me, you achieve no other information other than what is already said, and Scum and SK go into the night with town still being clueless other than possible night actions. I FoS people to show suspicion of recent moves, not because I completely believe that they are scum. If that was true I would be voting as, sheep,you, and Neb are. This drawing out, and from what I've seen yesterday, would make me vote you except Neb has BW'd you both times with your cases. Which I do admit have some merit in them. However voting me for a lynch at the start of the day isn't really making me think that you are town.
And what else do you want me to use. WIFOM, for the most part is all I have right now. I will go back and dig up a more solid case however. I might find something apart from the personal pissing contest aage, zimmah, and Doom had yesterday.

[rishaed]

I forgot Vote Neb

[jonty125]

FoS Sheep, I agree zimmah has played poorly and was at loggerheads with aage, but just because aage died, doesn't mean there is a direct link between zimmah and aage's death.

You would wager zimmah been non-town, at about 10%!! For any random player it is roughly 25%, and zimmah has not claimed, so how do you think he is town? It can only be based on posts alone, which I feel can only make you look like scum not town (because scum will try and disguise themselves as town so those who look town cannot be trusted). I'm sorry, rishaed but this is not the first error in a growing stream, and there is no smoke without fire. vote rishaed

Because Town Lynches me, you achieve no other information other than what is already said, and Scum and SK go into the night with town still being clueless other than possible night actions.

Not all the time, it would be better to lynch scum, than to no lynch and expose the cop.

[DoomYoshi]

I refuse to contribute to either of these cases.

[jonty125]

I refuse to contribute to either of these cases.

Why?

[zimmah]

I refuse to contribute to either of these cases.

Why?

Too much wifom involved I guess.

You can hardly take anything of today serious.

[DoomYoshi]

Any of rishaed's offenses by themself would not be lynchworthy. Adding them up is what allows people to think he is the correct lynch. I won't add them up, based primarily on his claim.

The zimmah case is better, but based 100% on WIFOM. Also, if you recall from yesterday, sheep is one of my higher ranked scum candidates. The fact that he is pushing the case, and basing it on a faulty argument (aage wasn't out to get zimmah and never voted for him) just makes it worse.

If you want to talk about lynching sheep, I would be down.

[zimmah]

me too, however if i start a case on him they'll probably just ignore it as OMGUS, even though yesterday i already made a statement that sheep is one of the scummy persons.

almost on the bottom of page 11 to be precise.

so i'd vote sheep, but only if the vote actually has value.

[Djfireside]

THis whole thing is going to a nice spiral. Rish, as much as I have been watching and think you more than likely are who you say you are, I am at the point where I want to lynch you so you stop clouding up everything. Neb and Saf pulled a quick turn on rish based on what we know but I cant condemn them for it.

Sheep at least had somewhat of an idea so I dont want to blindly hit them either, I thought similar but based on circumstances I dont believe the connection.

Feels like about to start peeing into the wind.

[new guy1]

Official Vote Count:

Zimmah: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
Rishaed: Safariguy, nebuchadnezer, Jonty (L-4)
Nebuchadnezer: Rishaed (L-6)


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is June 7th at around 5:00 PM Server time. Deadline extensions may be requested.

[Iron Butterfly]

Any of rishaed's offenses by themself would not be lynchworthy. Adding them up is what allows people to think he is the correct lynch. I won't add them up, based primarily on his claim.

The zimmah case is better, but based 100% on WIFOM. Also, if you recall from yesterday, sheep is one of my higher ranked scum candidates. The fact that he is pushing the case, and basing it on a faulty argument (aage wasn't out to get zimmah and never voted for him) just makes it worse.

If you want to talk about lynching sheep, I would be down.

Very rarely do I agree with you Doom in this case I do.

We got lucky last night in that the sk and mafia targeted the same person. Coincidence? Probably but it also make enables the strategy of keeping pressure on Zimmah if someone wanted to go the route of blaming him because of their interaction. Its a rather silly strategy and argument as this is just a game not real life, which is how Sheep tried to frame it (no pun intended) Sheep pounced rather quickly on that option.

Vote Sheep

If we lynch rishaed we have basically given mafia a free night kill after getting so lucky last night. I believe that mafia has intentionally kept the focus on Zimmah and Rish, which in essence makes it a continuation of day one with a free night kill.

I find it interesting how safari has deflected attention off of Sheep when a case could just as easily have been made on him. Saf uses a Wine case to create a wine case...geez.

[DoomYoshi]

vote sheep

[Nebuchadnezer]

Any of rishaed's offenses by themself would not be lynchworthy. Adding them up is what allows people to think he is the correct lynch. I won't add them up, based primarily on his claim.

The zimmah case is better, but based 100% on WIFOM. Also, if you recall from yesterday, sheep is one of my higher ranked scum candidates. The fact that he is pushing the case, and basing it on a faulty argument (aage wasn't out to get zimmah and never voted for him) just makes it worse.

If you want to talk about lynching sheep, I would be down.

Very rarely do I agree with you Doom in this case I do.

We got lucky last night in that the sk and mafia targeted the same person. Coincidence? Probably but it also make enables the strategy of keeping pressure on Zimmah if someone wanted to go the route of blaming him because of their interaction. Its a rather silly strategy and argument as this is just a game not real life, which is how Sheep tried to frame it (no pun intended) Sheep pounced rather quickly on that option.

Vote Sheep

If we lynch rishaed we have basically given mafia a free night kill after getting so lucky last night. I believe that mafia has intentionally kept the focus on Zimmah and Rish, which in essence makes it a continuation of day one with a free night kill.

I find it interesting how safari has deflected attention off of Sheep when a case could just as easily have been made on him. Saf uses a Wine case to create a wine case...geez.

My only question with this is: Do you really think Sheep is going to out himself on a WIFOM case if he were mafia? I don't know about that...of course, that is more WIFOM, and well, now I'm doing it...

[zimmah]

vote sheep

[Iron Butterfly]

said neb:

"My only question with this is: Do you really think Sheep is going to out himself on a WIFOM case if he were mafia? I don't know about that...of course, that is more WIFOM, and well, now I'm doing it..."

Your question is not a question then.

All we have to go on is what is in the written record. We take what is given and pass judgement on it.

When a player "outs" themselves you can guarantee they are not doing so on purpose. Sheep has been on my radar since he made the long post about why Zimmah is scummy and then did not vote for him. from my experience mafia will do that at times to create doubt, a case or create a red herring in the hopes that others will pick up the ball. When i called him on it he back tracked.

Sheep voted Zimmah today because Agee argued with zimmah yesterday and aagee flipped Town. His logic was that Zimmah was simply getting even for the insults and headache. What better smoke screen could mafia have. A smart player would not do such a thing so why not do it because it would be to stupid to do. That seems to be the nature of the logic.

Pure crap.