He's called a "traitor"

jonesthecurl · Post by **jonesthecurl** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:42 am

Facetious joke: the US has two right wings. That's why its politics goes round in circles.
I know it needs more work, but there the core of a real idea, and also a political joke there I think.

Woodruff · Post by **Woodruff** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:But as for the 2 people I respect most, one of them who taught me some extremely valuable skills for life and even taught me a lot about how to be a man is at odds with me, he keeps saying "name one person who's rights were violated"

Did you respond with "everyone's"? Because we do have a right to privacy.

Phatscotty wrote:In a perfect world, this could work, so long as we could trust the government to use government programs the right way and to do the right thing, and to me that includes getting a warrant amongst other things

That's the key for me. Issuing of warrants for specific individuals.

Phatscotty wrote:I still hold that we can keep the people safe and respect the rights of the American people.

I would rephrase it to say "we can keep the people as safe while respecting". Because we can't necessarily guarantee safety, but I don't think that we're particularly increasing our level of safety by doing these things, as the very amateur Boston Bombing showed quite clearly.

notyou2 · Post by **notyou2** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:34 pm

Make sure I understand this.

The US government tramples, no wait, tramples is too light a word, buries for all eternity the privacy rights of all it's citizens (not to mention the privacy rights of the rest of the worlds inhabitants) and some guy with a conscience that knows right from wrong spills the beans, and he has now become the traitor?

Wow, you got some fucked up sense of right and wrong in the US.

America, land of the free.

saxitoxin · Post by **saxitoxin** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:06 pm

notyou2 wrote:Make sure I understand this.

The US government tramples, no wait, tramples is too light a word, buries for all eternity the privacy rights of all it's citizens (not to mention the privacy rights of the rest of the worlds inhabitants) and some guy with a conscience that knows right from wrong spills the beans, and he has now become the traitor?

He might get off easy. After all, the last NSA whistleblower (who did first attempt to report the regime's "Trailblazer" citizen loyalty monitoring program to Congress and the Inspector-General) only had to settle for being stripped of all pension and retirement benefits (at the age of 58) by Obama and getting stuck working at an Apple store until he's 90.

Attorney General Eric Holder is known to love his Apple gadgets. But this past weekend, a trip to an Apple store to peruse the selection of iPhones ended abruptly after the attorney general found himself face to face with a man the Justice Department is prosecuting as an enemy of the state.

Mr. Drake was working his shift at the Apple store in Bethesda, Md., when he saw Mr. Holder, along with his Federal Bureau of Investigation security detail, in the store and approached him. Mr. Drake sent the following account of the encounter via email to Jesselyn Radack, an official with the whistleblowing group Government Accountability Project, which is assisting his defense.

“I’m Thomas Drake, the former National Security Agency official who’s been in the news,” Mr. Drake told Mr. Holder

“Do you know why they have come after me?” he asked the attorney general.

Mr. Holder replied: “Yes, I do.”

To which, Mr. Drake responded: “But do you know the rest of the story?”

Without a word, Mr. Holder turned and walked out of the store.

A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment, except to say that Mr. Holder is a “fan of Apple products.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/06/0 ... encounter/

patches70 · Post by **patches70** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:38 pm

Thomas Drake plea bargained for "improper use of documents" or something or other. They had tried to charge him with passing classified documents and had about 12 counts of such when it turned out that none of the documents he used to expose the government's wasted money were actually ever classified. So the government had to drop those charges.

ooge · Post by **ooge** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:42 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
patches70 wrote:Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?
And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

It's wrong. To me, it doesn't matter an iota which "party" is doing it. Then again, I am actually left wing. America doesn't have one.

Left wing? a party of one,Bernie Sanders.

BigBallinStalin · Post by **BigBallinStalin** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:19 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote: Yes, this traitor was aiding the enemy. The enemy being the rights of the American people, and he sold out the government.

What Snowden did is not responsible whistleblowing. Whistleblower laws, in this case, would protect executive branch employees for reporting this to Congress. Leaking a report to the press at large is not the same as whistleblowing, and it is a gross negligence of his duties.

Cute. Like he would be able to get through Congress with that.

Woodruff · Post by **Woodruff** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:22 pm

ooge wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
patches70 wrote:Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?
And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

It's wrong. To me, it doesn't matter an iota which "party" is doing it. Then again, I am actually left wing. America doesn't have one.
Left wing? a party of one,Bernie Sanders.

Eh...some of the Green Party candidates can be pretty left-wing.

Woodruff · Post by **Woodruff** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:14 pm

Here's an interesting article on the issue:

http://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics ... it/cahpx38

ooge · Post by **ooge** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:17 am

Woodruff wrote:
ooge wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
patches70 wrote:Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?
And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

It's wrong. To me, it doesn't matter an iota which "party" is doing it. Then again, I am actually left wing. America doesn't have one.
Left wing? a party of one,Bernie Sanders.
Eh...some of the Green Party candidates can be pretty left-wing.

and when they get in the congress I will add them to the list.

ooge · Post by **ooge** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:19 am

The rumor is Snowden may defect to China,if he does I will then change my vote to traitor.

BigBallinStalin · Post by **BigBallinStalin** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:36 am

ooge wrote:The rumor is Snowden may defect to China,if he does I will then change my vote to traitor.

Do you know what Hong Kong is?

saxitoxin · Post by **saxitoxin** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:58 am

The U.S. has ordered Great Britain to ban Snowden:

BANGKOK (AP) — The British government has issued an alert to airlines around the world, urging them not to allow former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden to board flights to the United Kingdom.

The Associated Press saw a photograph of the document taken Friday at a Thai airport. A British diplomat confirmed that the document was genuine and was sent out to airlines around the world. A Thai airline also confirmed the alert had been issued.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... k/2422385/

AslanTheKing · Post by **AslanTheKing** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:55 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:The rumor is Snowden may defect to China,if he does I will then change my vote to traitor.

Do you know what Hong Kong is?[/quote

hong king, is china
ever been there?

Phatscotty · Post by **Phatscotty** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:15 pm

"He's a traitor!" "No, HE'S the traitor!

Phatscotty · Post by **Phatscotty** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:one of them who taught me some extremely valuable skills for life and even taught me a lot about how to be a man
this guy?

noooo-ah!

This is more like it

ooge · Post by **ooge** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:53 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:The rumor is Snowden may defect to China,if he does I will then change my vote to traitor.
Do you know what Hong Kong is?[/quote

hong king, is china
ever been there?

going to Hong Kong is not the same as actually defecting to mainland China,The rumor was renouncing US citizen and defecting to China.

BigBallinStalin · Post by **BigBallinStalin** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:30 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:The rumor is Snowden may defect to China,if he does I will then change my vote to traitor.
Do you know what Hong Kong is?[/quote

hong king, is china
ever been there?

Hong King is an excellent Chinese dish, complete with bamboo shoots and peanuts.

Woodruff · Post by **Woodruff** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:04 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote: Yes, this traitor was aiding the enemy. The enemy being the rights of the American people, and he sold out the government.

What Snowden did is not responsible whistleblowing. Whistleblower laws, in this case, would protect executive branch employees for reporting this to Congress. Leaking a report to the press at large is not the same as whistleblowing, and it is a gross negligence of his duties.

These three are the reason why we know that reporting this to Congress is useless (they tried it):

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... e/2428809/

Phatscotty · Post by **Phatscotty** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:09 pm

The task falls on us to pass on Freedom. If the youth grow up in a big brother police state mired in civil rights violations by our government, that means we failed.

Rejoice O young man in thy youth...

notyou2 · Post by **notyou2** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:28 pm

Phatscotty wrote:The task falls on us to pass on Freedom. If the youth grow up in a big brother police state mired in civil rights violations by our government, that means we failed.

Rejoice O young man in thy youth...

Phatscotty finally admitting that he is all for taking a "pass on Freedom." Glad that you finally admitted you are all for the government trumping the rights of the people.

Phatscotty · Post by **Phatscotty** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:09 pm

pass the torch B

Woodruff · Post by **Woodruff** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:07 pm

notyou2 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The task falls on us to pass on Freedom. If the youth grow up in a big brother police state mired in civil rights violations by our government, that means we failed.
Phatscotty finally admitting that he is all for taking a "pass on Freedom." Glad that you finally admitted you are all for the government trumping the rights of the people.

All this time, I thought Phatscotty was taking a piss on freedom.

Woodruff · Post by **Woodruff** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:46 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html

So they're charging a spy...with spying.

I wonder if it feels ironic?

BigBallinStalin · Post by **BigBallinStalin** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:03 am

Woodruff wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html

So they're charging a spy...with spying.

I wonder if it feels ironic?

Well, if you don't play the game, then you get the fire. The cultures of bureaucracies can be amazingly childish, counter-productive, and petty. "Groupthink FTW" should be the motto for all of them.

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