[Abandoned] - The Trojan War

[benjikat]

Pretty sure he means for any "real" altar to be able to attack any "ethereal" altar and same for barracks.

What isn't clear to me is whether or not the ethereal barracks / altars can attack each other sideways??

But great looking map - fantastic - and one to tax the brain cells. The bonuses should be determined from playtesting, as this map is to complex for standard Foundry "formulas".

I second the idea of an "auto deadbeat" death for someone who no longer has mortal armies - if the XML / game engine will allow it.

A question as a relative newcomer - is there any recourse for revising a map once it's been quenched if it is found to have flaws in the bonus structure that overly benefits a favourable deployment?

[Spritzking]

well i pretty much like the hero/god system, thoug i do not understand how you can conquer them.

where do i find that gods/ heros on the map?

[gimil]

A question as a relative newcomer - is there any recourse for revising a map once it's been quenched if it is found to have flaws in the bonus structure that overly benefits a favourable deployment?

Im not sure. i think you just need the creators permission for a revamp.

[hulmey]

first look at it makes me cringe.......Looks very complicated indeed

[Hamster1800]

The top part of the map somewhat confused it. I'm assuming, since Zeus can attack all the gods, that it makes sense that they can attack down their path. The feel of the map suggest that it goes one way up. Also, which territories are actually the gods? Are they the top of their column, or are they a separate territory? Do you need the whole column for the god bonus (attacking) or just one territory? The whole column would be hard to do with XML.

What do you mean by "God power not defined?" And why is Ares worth +8?

You have a spelling error: alter (legend text)
I also see that you're using the modern spelling for the heroes. I'm not against that, but at least in the Iliad Achilles was spelled as Akhilleus. Here's a list of approximate spellings to the best of my memory if you want to switch them.
Aeneis, Patroklos, Paris, Menelaos, Priam, Odysseus, Agamemnon, Aias, Hektor, Akhilleus

[snufkin]

Yes.. please use the ancient Greek names and not the latin translations of more than a millenium later..

Hephaistos, Menelaos, Athene, Hektor, Patroklos, Priamos..etc

..unless this is based on the Hollywood movie rather than the historical myth most famous through Homeros aka Homer?

..and Aeneus should be Aineias or Aeneas or Ainos.
The latin Aeneus probably comes from a book written 700 years after the Iliad.

[mibi]

I look forward to seeing how it all hangs together - i.e. which altar's relate to each gods... and which barracks relate to each hero...

And also I note that there are more heroes than barracks?!

Also the conundrum of non-deployable territories and what happens when you have no territories to deploy too.

Perhaps - if you defeat an enemy that has no more deployable territories then all their armies go Neutral and they are killed?!

C.

Any mortal alter can attack any alter of the circular god alters, so if you want to make sure no one follows you up a god path you will want to have some muscle on the very first alter. Yes there are more hero's than barracks, but this is ok since any baracks cany attack the first pace of any hero (the square).

IF you have no armies to deploy and you are killed off from the mortal realm, well then i guess your done, if your playing teams you can still deploy on a team mate. but otherwise, yeah I think it would be good if your armies go neutral, otherwise you would be turned into a dead beat, which isn't such a great idea.

Pretty sure he means for any "real" altar to be able to attack any "ethereal" altar and same for barracks.

What isn't clear to me is whether or not the ethereal barracks / altars can attack each other sideways??

But great looking map - fantastic - and one to tax the brain cells. The bonuses should be determined from playtesting, as this map is to complex for standard Foundry "formulas".

I second the idea of an "auto deadbeat" death for someone who no longer has mortal armies - if the XML / game engine will allow it.

A question as a relative newcomer - is there any recourse for revising a map once it's been quenched if it is found to have flaws in the bonus structure that overly benefits a favourable deployment?

no you cannot attack sideways for the gods or heroes. and i believe that maps can be updated, i tihnk world 2.0 was updated to 2.1 but it is not common.

well i pretty much like the hero/god system, thoug i do not understand how you can conquer them.

where do i find that gods/ heros on the map?

you conquer a god by sending your armies through the alters in the terrestrial realm to the alter on the god you want to conquer, then you work your way up.

The top part of the map somewhat confused it. I'm assuming, since Zeus can attack all the gods, that it makes sense that they can attack down their path. The feel of the map suggest that it goes one way up. Also, which territories are actually the gods? Are they the top of their column, or are they a separate territory? Do you need the whole column for the god bonus (attacking) or just one territory? The whole column would be hard to do with XML.

What do you mean by "God power not defined?" And why is Ares worth +8?

You have a spelling error: alter (legend text)
I also see that you're using the modern spelling for the heroes. I'm not against that, but at least in the Iliad Achilles was spelled as Akhilleus. Here's a list of approximate spellings to the best of my memory if you want to switch them.
Aeneis, Patroklos, Paris, Menelaos, Priam, Odysseus, Agamemnon, Aias, Hektor, Akhilleus

The god worship paths are two way, but since you can deploy on them you will most likely be going up, however if someone tried to unseat you from a god you can attack them downwards. The need to hold all the column spaces to hold a god, same with the heroes. The mountain spaces are just a worship track.

God power not defined means I haven't thought of any god power for them, im taking suggestions. and Ares is +8 because he is the god of war, and has no other god power, I considered having him attack any barracks but decided against it.

And I will considered the original names.

[t.e.c]

mibi, it's "altar" not alter.

[hulmey]

This map is a real let down, im sorrry to say....Ok what happens if you start the with good postioning and luckey enough you ge to attack first as well!!!!

Its also very confusing....I thought DIM's was confusing but boy this has just won the Award in that catergory.

[DiM]

finally the whole map is unraveld so i can put in some feedback.

i like the gameply and the gimmick with altars and barracks. i don't think it is complicated at all and the map just got a lot better because of this.

a few suggestions:

*map height. i know the legend is not done but i just wanted to point this out. i have no problem with big maps but 1500+ is too much. if you manage to lower it to ~1200 it should be perfect.
*i don't like the fact that the columns are identical. make them Ionic and Doric.
*also about the columns. you have 2 styles. the one on the left where the ground rises and the one on the right where it is flat. while the flat one has the advantage you can put the exact number of marble pieces as the bonus, i like the sloped land. don't know if you thought of this or did it by accident but the rising ground can suggest Mt. Olimp.
*also it would be really really neat if on top of every colum there would be a statue for each of the gods and heroes.
*some rearranging of the gods is needed. hera near zeus, hades at the bottom, etc.
*ares has no power but it has +8??
*make the sea borders more clear, they are barely visible.


PS: this map has huge potential with some xml modifications.

[yeti_c]

This map is a real let down, im sorrry to say....Ok what happens if you start the with good postioning and luckey enough you ge to attack first as well!!!!

Its also very confusing....I thought DIM's was confusing but boy this has just won the Award in that catergory.

It's not even finished yet... I'm sure in his next update the gods and the barracks territories will be better explained and a lot more logical...

I agree it is complicated - but complicated is the way forward... what's the point in having easy stale gameplay...

C.

PS Mibi - I notice Lack is including Ranged attacks... this would be great for Poseidon for attacking the sea... he can strike down but cannot conquer - or can summon the kracken!?!
PPS I do think that one of the heroes should be able to attack the rearmost boat's of each continents though - so that you can actually conquer them... are any of the heroes reknowned swimmers? I do think that the boats should be deployable too.

[hulmey]

Im just really disappointed....Thought this was going to be a huge map only to be disppointed with another confusing legend by mibi (going for the gold medal) and also half the mapis columns!!!!

[DiM]

This map is a real let down, im sorrry to say....Ok what happens if you start the with good postioning and luckey enough you ge to attack first as well!!!!

Its also very confusing....I thought DIM's was confusing but boy this has just won the Award in that catergory.

come on hulmey what the heck is confusing? i don't understand you guys. i really don't did you at least try to understand it? try spending 2 minutes looking at the map and reading the legend. if after those 2 minutes you still say it is confusing then ....

i better not continue my line of thought but i'm sure neither this nor my map are so complicated that people can't understand them. i agree it takes more than 5 secs to get the idea but from this to saying it is too damn complicated to understand there's a really long path paved with.....

i better not continue this idea either

[mibi]

finally the whole map is unraveld so i can put in some feedback.

i like the gameply and the gimmick with altars and barracks. i don't think it is complicated at all and the map just got a lot better because of this.

a few suggestions:

*map height. i know the legend is not done but i just wanted to point this out. i have no problem with big maps but 1500+ is too much. if you manage to lower it to ~1200 it should be perfect.
Yeah i will see what I can do. It's a bit difficult because all greek and roman fonts are all caps and expanded, which is why I had to make the dos and heros names veticle, but I agee it needs to come down, maybe to 1400
*i don't like the fact that the columns are identical. make them Ionic and Doric.
whats Ionic and Doric?
*also about the columns. you have 2 styles. the one on the left where the ground rises and the one on the right where it is flat. while the flat one has the advantage you can put the exact number of marble pieces as the bonus, i like the sloped land. don't know if you thought of this or did it by accident but the rising ground can suggest Mt. Olimp.
well yeah, the ground ont he right is mount olympus, even though hades shouldnt be there, but he is. are you saying the hero ground should be sloped too?
*also it would be really really neat if on top of every colum there would be a statue for each of the gods and heroes.
yeah i was thinking about adding some icons, like a lightning bolt for zeus, winged feet for hermes etc, this is what i oriniginally had in mind but had to change to try to fit the text in, i'll see what i can do.
*some rearranging of the gods is needed. hera near zeus, hades at the bottom, etc.
yeah hera can go near zeus, but hades is too powerful and needs to be at the top, he is also the brother of zeus, as is posiedon, and a very powerful god.
*ares has no power but it has +8??
yes ares is the god of war so a massive army bonus IS his god bonus, i think it fits.
*make the sea borders more clear, they are barely visible.
ok


PS: this map has huge potential with some xml modifications.

[mibi]

This map is a real let down, im sorrry to say....Ok what happens if you start the with good postioning and luckey enough you ge to attack first as well!!!!

Its also very confusing....I thought DIM's was confusing but boy this has just won the Award in that catergory.

It's not even finished yet... I'm sure in his next update the gods and the barracks territories will be better explained and a lot more logical...

I agree it is complicated - but complicated is the way forward... what's the point in having easy stale gameplay...

C.

PS Mibi - I notice Lack is including Ranged attacks... this would be great for Poseidon for attacking the sea... he can strike down but cannot conquer - or can summon the kracken!?!
PPS I do think that one of the heroes should be able to attack the rearmost boat's of each continents though - so that you can actually conquer them... are any of the heroes reknowned swimmers? I do think that the boats should be deployable too.

the boats are deployable. im not a fan of ranged attack idea. i like it that once you have the favor of posiedon you can conquer the sea and be a serious and destructive force on the map.

[hulmey]

WE all know you like confusion and you have some great complicated ideas.

But i will say this...I have played a number of games on the Siege map and people have complained how complicated it is. Let alone this huge map, with huge colums and huge complications.

Many people wont play it simply coz they dont want to keep scrolling down, let alone with all the complications that re going to come with.

I will like yeti says reserve judgement until the map has been completed.

[snufkin]

I think it has the potential to become the best map ever..

and he is clearly saying that the legend is not done.
I´m sure it will be less confusing when finished.

..and so what if you have to play it once or twice before you get used to it - progress is not about copying old formulas and striving for maximum simplicity.

[mibi]

WE all know you like confusion and you have some great complicated ideas.

But i will say this...I have played a number of games on the Siege map and people have complained how complicated it is. Let alone this huge map, with huge colums and huge complications.

Many people wont play it simply coz they dont want to keep scrolling down, let alone with all the complications that re going to come with.

I will like yeti says reserve judgement until the map has been completed.

This map is not for simpletons. It's an 180 territory map of the Trojan war with all the intricacies that should do such the epic battle justice. And really, its not that complicated. With the new xml changes, maps will be getting more complicated and game play more advanced. If such game play is outside someones comfort zone I suggest they stick to classic. And the scrolling will be annoying, but thats the way it is, this map will not lend it self to RT games, its an epic battle, not one for a lunch break.

and about Siege, there are over 1,000 active games right now, I think people are getting the hang of it.

[The Random One]

Hey, I was right! Wheeeee.

So, great map. So complicated. I loved it. I'll just repeat the things that have already been said, squeeze the legend a bit so it isn't so tall and mind the spelling of "altar".

Great job!

[DiM]

finally the whole map is unraveld so i can put in some feedback.

i like the gameply and the gimmick with altars and barracks. i don't think it is complicated at all and the map just got a lot better because of this.

a few suggestions:

1.map height. i know the legend is not done but i just wanted to point this out. i have no problem with big maps but 1500+ is too much. if you manage to lower it to ~1200 it should be perfect.
Yeah i will see what I can do. It's a bit difficult because all greek and roman fonts are all caps and expanded, which is why I had to make the dos and heros names veticle, but I agee it needs to come down, maybe to 1400
2.i don't like the fact that the columns are identical. make them Ionic and Doric.
whats Ionic and Doric?
3.also about the columns. you have 2 styles. the one on the left where the ground rises and the one on the right where it is flat. while the flat one has the advantage you can put the exact number of marble pieces as the bonus, i like the sloped land. don't know if you thought of this or did it by accident but the rising ground can suggest Mt. Olimp.
well yeah, the ground ont he right is mount olympus, even though hades shouldnt be there, but he is. are you saying the hero ground should be sloped too?
4.also it would be really really neat if on top of every colum there would be a statue for each of the gods and heroes.
yeah i was thinking about adding some icons, like a lightning bolt for zeus, winged feet for hermes etc, this is what i oriniginally had in mind but had to change to try to fit the text in, i'll see what i can do.
5.some rearranging of the gods is needed. hera near zeus, hades at the bottom, etc.
yeah hera can go near zeus, but hades is too powerful and needs to be at the top, he is also the brother of zeus, as is posiedon, and a very powerful god.
6.ares has no power but it has +8??
yes ares is the god of war so a massive army bonus IS his god bonus, i think it fits.
7.make the sea borders more clear, they are barely visible.
ok


PS: this map has huge potential with some xml modifications.

2. here are the greek colums. these 3 are the most important. i personally prefer doric and ionic. Corinthian is too elaborate. also note that on doric the column gets narrower at the top while the others mantain the same.



3. i like it how it is now. i just wasn't sure if you intentionally made it look like Mt. Olimp. just add some more artwork into it to make sure it really represents Mt' Olimp. maybe some clouds some snow some golden gates

4. icons are good too. but i don't know what icons you can put for heroes. that's why i suggested statues.

[Guiscard]

Im just really disappointed....Thought this was going to be a huge map only to be disppointed with another confusing legend by mibi (going for the gold medal) and also half the mapis columns!!!!

I do actually agree. I love the bottom half, but the top seems confusing, lacking in detail (compared to what it could be).

I really think you could make much more of the 'heavenly' section without making it so complicated. People will be put off by the complicated nature of the map, especially newbies, who would otherwise be absolutely ecstatic about being able to play over a beautiful map of Troy.

[yeti_c]

Im just really disappointed....Thought this was going to be a huge map only to be disppointed with another confusing legend by mibi (going for the gold medal) and also half the mapis columns!!!!

I do actually agree. I love the bottom half, but the top seems confusing, lacking in detail (compared to what it could be).

I really think you could make much more of the 'heavenly' section without making it so complicated. People will be put off by the complicated nature of the map, especially newbies, who would otherwise be absolutely ecstatic about being able to play over a beautiful map of Troy.

You could have 2 maps in 1 here...

How's about "Troy"(Ground only) & "Tory - Battle of the Gods"(As is now)

That way Noobs & Hulmey can play on the simple one...

And People who want Complications and scrolling and headaches can play on the bigger one?

C.

[hulmey]

Who said i dont understand this one Yeti?

Im just saying its a great disappoint and graphically shocking...You have a beautiful map and then columns which (well look at it yourself)

[Guiscard]

Im just really disappointed....Thought this was going to be a huge map only to be disppointed with another confusing legend by mibi (going for the gold medal) and also half the mapis columns!!!!

I do actually agree. I love the bottom half, but the top seems confusing, lacking in detail (compared to what it could be).

I really think you could make much more of the 'heavenly' section without making it so complicated. People will be put off by the complicated nature of the map, especially newbies, who would otherwise be absolutely ecstatic about being able to play over a beautiful map of Troy.

You could have 2 maps in 1 here...

How's about "Troy"(Ground only) & "Tory - Battle of the Gods"(As is now)

That way Noobs & Hulmey can play on the simple one...

And People who want Complications and scrolling and headaches can play on the bigger one?

C.

I don't mind the size whatsoever, and I don't even mind it being reasonably complicated (as long as it can be understood by reading it through once), but I do think the 'theme' could be exploited more to make a better map. I love the idea of gods being able to attack certain sections and i love battling in the heavens, as this is a major part of Greek mythology, but just going between columns? Seems like a bit of a cop-out...

edit: I'd love to seem some well-drawn clouds or mountains and Gods in the style of the Greek pottery representations:

[mibi]

[

edit: I'd love to seem some well-drawn clouds or mountains and Gods in the style of the Greek pottery representations:

what are the purposes of these images, besides cluttering up an already cluttered area? The purpose of the column was to simplify the bonus structure. I will put some thought into other ways to do it tho.