U.S. Government Shuts Down

[isaiah40]

Here's a short article about the Taliban mocking our shutdown:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics ... r-shutdown

[saxitoxin]

Democrats agree to repeal Obamacare's wheelchair tax -

In the Senate, a separate proposal under consideration would raise the debt ceiling and include a spending provision to reopen the government. It also includes a Republican priority also backed by many Democrats to end a tax on medical devices created by Obama's signature health care reforms, known as Obamacare.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1

[BigBallinStalin]

Taxes are unpopular! Deficit spending is king!

Hail! Hail! Hail!

[Phatscotty]

Democrats agree to repeal Obamacare's wheelchair tax -

In the Senate, a separate proposal under consideration would raise the debt ceiling and include a spending provision to reopen the government. It also includes a Republican priority also backed by many Democrats to end a tax on medical devices created by Obama's signature health care reforms, known as Obamacare.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1

We better get more than that! Repealing the medical device tax already had 30 Democrat Senators supporting it, even Al Franken!

Yes, toothbrushes are 'medical devices' I'm sure that's one of the taxes they were counting on jacking up a few times too. Nothing sneaky about Obamacare!

[isaiah40]

Funny how the government is supposedly shut down and can't spend money on necessary things, but they consider shutting down and placing guards at national monuments that aren't there normally to keep people out. Except to illegals I might add.

[saxitoxin]

South Dakota Taking Over Running Mount Rushmore --

Mount Rushmore will reopen Monday morning.

The national memorial, closed since the federal government shut down Oct. 1, will welcome visitors again as a result of a deal between Gov. Dennis Daugaard and the National Parks Service.

“I’m very pleased that we could find a way to get Mount Rushmore open,” Daugaard said late Friday afternoon. “It has been a tough week for a lot of people .... It’s nice to have some good news on which to end the week.”

South Dakota has agreed to pay the full daily cost of operating the facility, $15,200.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... ck_check=1

Now Nicholas Cage can resume looking for the treasure.

[_sabotage_]

How much was it costing them to keep it closed?

[BigBallinStalin]

South Dakota has agreed to pay the full daily cost of operating the facility, $15,200.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... ck_check=1

What a waste.

Now Nicholas Cage can resume looking for the treasure.

[Metsfanmax]

Apparently on September 30, the House Rules Committee made it impossible for anyone other than Eric Cantor to end the shutdown:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/1 ... 95129.html

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), presiding over the chamber, told Van Hollen that the rule he was asking to use had been "altered" and he did not have the privilege of bringing that vote to the floor. In the ensuing back and forth, Chaffetz said the recently passed House Resolution 368 trumped the standing rules. Where any member of the House previously could have brought the clean resolution to the floor under House Rule 22, House Resolution 368 -- passed on the eve of the shutdown -- gave that right exclusively to the House majority leader, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia.

"The Rules Committee, under the rules of the House, changed the standing rules of the House to take away the right of any member to move to vote to open the government, and gave that right exclusively to the Republican Leader," said Van Hollen. "Is that right?"

"The House adopted that resolution," replied Chaffetz.

...



"Mr. Speaker, why were the rules rigged to keep the government shut down?" Van Hollen asked.

"The gentleman will suspend," Chaffetz interjected.

"Democracy has been suspended, Mr. Speaker."

[thegreekdog]

Who is Van Hollen? Does he or she know that we don't live in a democracy?

[Metsfanmax]

That would be Rep. Chris Van Hollen from Maryland's 8th district.

[thegreekdog]

That would be Rep. Chris Van Hollen from Maryland's 8th district.

Representative you say? You would think Chris would know what kind of government we have given his title.

[Metsfanmax]

That would be Rep. Chris Van Hollen from Maryland's 8th district.

Representative you say? You would think Chris would know what kind of government we have given his title.

Please provide a definition of democracy that you think does not apply to the United States.

[DoomYoshi]

That would be Rep. Chris Van Hollen from Maryland's 8th district.

Representative you say? You would think Chris would know what kind of government we have given his title.

Please provide a definition of democracy that you think does not apply to the United States.

This is a trap question. Most dictionaries since Independence define democracy as American government. They then describe what they see and so all definitions apply to the united states.

To get to the real question, you need to focus not on dictionary, but rather etymological definitions. In short democracy means `people in power`. In the United States, are the people in power?

And yes, the root of the question is define people, define power, yada yada yada.

[patches70]

Something people should take a moment to understand about the USG shutdown. The world didn't end.

Imagine a place like China where every school, every agency be it national or local, banking and internet closely watched by a party minder, what would happen to them in a government shutdown? To find that everyone who had a commie party leader of some type looking over their shoulder suddenly wasn't there to look over their shoulder? What would happen?

The great thing about the US is that even when our government "shuts down", American society goes on just fine without the government. It means we can get by without a government if push came to shove. In places like China that's not such a given.

Which brings to mind why the Obama administration wants to cause as much pain as possible. To try and convince everyone of the importance of government. Specifically a central government. Pfff, makes no difference to most people with the government shut down. Only those who find themselves relying on government truly feel any pain.

haha, the government shuts down and no one notices or cares, that would be the death blow to this fantasy of "we have to have a central government". So the pain must be maximized so that everyone can be convinced that we need the central government above everything else. Which isn't really true. The USG is jut not that important. At least to people who are as self sufficient as possible.

So we should see this government shut down as a positive, our society is plenty strong enough that just because the USG shuts down we don't go all Mad Max in society (at least no more worse than we do as it stands with the government not shut down). There are plenty of other societies on the planet that couldn't last a few days without mass anarchy and splintering happening if the central power for some reason shut down. In the US life goes on pretty much as it always does and we get a societal "Meh" in response.

And that last thing is something very strange to many others around the world, how the central government can "shut down" and the US doesn't degenerate into a feeding frenzy. Such a thing is unthinkable in lots of nations across the world. That's one of the things that has made the US so different from the rest of the world. IMO.

[Metsfanmax]

If you are choosing your definition of democracy to support your contention that the US is not a democracy then all you have done is state a tautology.

[BigBallinStalin]

If you are choosing your definition of democracy to support your contention that the US is a democracy then all you have done is state a tautology.

[_sabotage_]

Imagine a place like China, where a shut down wouldn't happen. Where they have a single party to take all blame and responsibility. Where everyone knows exactly who's at fault and demand clear, unambiguous action, such as fix it now in a multi-million person internet voice. Where the government has an excess of cash and most people don't pay tax, yet get health care and cheap education.

Thank the lord that world didn't end with the shutdown.

[Night Strike]

Why are people suddenly outraged over the House changing their rules? Harry Reid has been using his position to block any bill or amendment he doesn't want allowed on the floor ever since he became Senate Majority Leader, including during this same slim down debate.

[Phatscotty]

Mets, that's how things have been for the last 4-5 years.

[Metsfanmax]

Perhaps, but nearly a million government employees have been furloughed only for the last two weeks, so I'd say that this is why the outrage is occurring now and not four years ago.

[thegreekdog]

Mets, the good representative is bitching. He is bitching because the REPUBLIC of which he is a part of the government permits these kind of things to happen. A DEMOCRACY probably wouldn't allow these kinds of things to happen. Eric Cantor wouldn't be the guy to be able to end the shut down if we lived in a democracy.* Instead we live in a Republic where Cantor was elected by a bunch of jamokes and Cantor, who, because of the rules of our republican government, can do these sorts of things. Nevermind that the representative is probably going to support his own speaker when this happens again in 2018.

* If we lived in a democracy, I suspect our government would be shut down for a while.

[Metsfanmax]

What do you even mean when you say "democracy?" Do you even know what you mean?

[thegreekdog]

What do you even mean when you say "democracy?" Do you even know what you mean?

Do you understand the difference between a federal republic and a democracy?
Do you understand grandstanding?
Do you understand hypocrisy?

[Phatscotty]

and to the Republic for which it stands.....

oh wait, I forgot the schools changez that.

Can't change this though