Waterdale Mafia Over Mafia Wins

[kgb007]

wow very surprised we're already at D2, i'm not sure what we can really learn from such a short night though

maybe instead of two scum buddies, there's only 1? that would cut down on the discussion period since there's no one to consult with

[Fircoal]

wow very surprised we're already at D2, i'm not sure what we can really learn from such a short night though

maybe instead of two scum buddies, there's only 1? that would cut down on the discussion period since there's no one to consult with

That's what I was thinking as well.

Something important to note. For whatever reason the night only lasted 20 hours. That leads me to believe there was some quick communication going on.

I agree, but we've all been fairly communicative in the thread... Fairly.

Yes. something else to note is that communicating with each other over that time would be hard, so likely the two scummy scums were both on at the same time or one of them decided to send in the action themselves.

And hoping we have town power roles, they would have had to act extremely quickly, also.

This too. What I am wondering what if there is only one power role and one mafia member. Then assuming that there are only 4 townies would be a bad idea. ><

[Iron Butterfly]

wow very surprised we're already at D2, i'm not sure what we can really learn from such a short night though

maybe instead of two scum buddies, there's only 1? that would cut down on the discussion period since there's no one to consult with

Perhaps you should re-read the opening scene.


We had a short night? So what. Its a small game with some VT.

I would like Firecoal to explain why a short night is so important as it offers nothing to the game other then to make it sound like that info is important.

Weather the mafia action was sent in by one person or they both conferred with each other is irrelevant as they still got a night kill and you will never know the answer to your speculation.

[Iron Butterfly]

I also find it funny the both of you are trying to make it sound like there is just 1 mafia, which would only help mafia.

[kgb007]

ha you're right, i completely forgot about the opening scene, thanks for pointing that out

i was more just brainstorming why the night would be so short but i agree, i don't know what can be gleaned from such a short night period

[Anarkistsdream]

I also find it funny the both of you are trying to make it sound like there is just 1 mafia, which would only help mafia.

I have to agree with this one. If you just had ONE, it wouldn't be mafia, it would just be an SK... That aside, if we only have one power role, I pray it is a Cop...

[Fircoal]

wow very surprised we're already at D2, i'm not sure what we can really learn from such a short night though

maybe instead of two scum buddies, there's only 1? that would cut down on the discussion period since there's no one to consult with

Perhaps you should re-read the opening scene.


We had a short night? So what. Its a small game with some VT.

Wait WHAT... WHAT WHAT WHAT? This is coming from the person who said THIS:

OK, so let's break this down...

2 Prisoners
6 Townies (unless there is a third party, which I don't see Spiesr putting one in such a small game)

Out of those townies, what do you guys think? One cop, one doc? Maybe a JOAT, instead of two separate roles?

[color=#FF0000He said it was a basic game, so I wouldn't think the scum have any roles at all. ][/color]

This first day lynch is going to be critical, more so than most games because of the small number of players and the fact that there are only two enemies.

I also found this post interesting in that you really try to minimize the roles this game may have especially mafia.
As I stated earlier Spiesr said this is a newb friendly game not a basic game. That does not mean mafia can not have roles.

Unlike you I don't sit on the fence

vote Anarkistsdream

You were the one who put out the idea of there being more power roles on either side while other people were saying that it was likely 4 VT, a cop, a doc, and 2 vanilla mafias or something like that. And now you are claiming that it's just a small game with some VT. That hasn't been the tone you've been taking up this whole game.

I would like Firecoal to explain why a short night is so important as it offers nothing to the game other then to make it sound like that info is important.

Weather the mafia action was sent in by one person or they both conferred with each other is irrelevant as they still got a night kill and you will never know the answer to your speculation.

Um it is important. There is a reason why we speculate. Because think about who would be most likely to send in a kill after limited or no collaboration when they could have used that time to come to a better consensus. The already tells us something about our killers. For example, let's look at JamesKer. He is the type of person who would quickly go after something and not look back until later. A quick night would be something that you would expect from him. There are people who put in their actions right away, and there are people who tend to wait fiveever to do it even if they could earlier. (Even when active I tend to be someone who has a problem putting in their action on time)

Not to add it gets us a better idea of what we have in the town. Yes I forgot there were confirmed two mafia members but what if there were not? It'd be better for us to kick around the possibility. I find it funny how you are the one to remember that for sure there are 2 mafia, while both me and Kgb forget. Maybe there is a reason for that. ;3

[JamesKer1]

Vote nark. Greg was quieter but voted you. Easy way to make it look like you aren't going after someone if you are mafia, but his only substantial vote was against you I believe, maybe one on IB. With the "quick communication", it actually IS important- it suggests how one sided the conversation is. A person who was killed off and on your wagon could save you today.

Also you seem to be pushing to find town power roles... Is that not suspicious?

And on top of all this and the previous suspicion, I REALLY don't like how much your first D2 post pointed to me. I am the only new person here and I post quite a bit... And I am definitely not mafia.

Let's bring back the wagon from where we left off... And don't let nark plead his innocence this time and get it taken off

[Iron Butterfly]

You are mighty defensive in regards to answering a simple question Firecoal and your response is complete WIFOM based on supposed meta. Having a quick night offers NOTHING to who did what.

Second you completely twisted my statement in response Anarchy I said,
"I also found this post interesting in that you really try to minimize the roles this game may have especially mafia.
As I stated earlier Spiesr said this is a newb friendly game not a basic game. That does not mean mafia can not have roles."

It was suggested that scum would not have any roles at all. I strongly stand by my above statement.

Not to add it gets us a better idea of what we have in the town. Yes I forgot there were confirmed two mafia members but what if there were not? It'd be better for us to kick around the possibility. I find it funny how you are the one to remember that for sure there are 2 mafia, while both me and Kgb forget. Maybe there is a reason for that. ;3

Load of crap this statement. The reason I know is that when you suggested this "theory" I reread the opening scene again. Something you were either to to lazy to do before opining, not Once but twice or because you were hoping to plant that seed in peoples minds hoping no one would notice.

[Anarkistsdream]

Anybody with a brain who has ever played mafia knows better than to go after someone going after them... beyond that, your post is laughably ridiculous.. Why go after him with his one vote andZERO posts when people like IB are hardassing me?

Vote nark. Greg was quieter but voted you. Easy way to make it look like you aren't going after someone if you are mafia, but his only substantial vote was against you I believe, maybe one on IB. With the "quick communication", it actually IS important- it suggests how one sided the conversation is. A person who was killed off and on your wagon could save you today.

Also you seem to be pushing to find town power roles... Is that not suspicious?

And on top of all this and the previous suspicion, I REALLY don't like how much your first D2 post pointed to me. I am the only new person here and I post quite a bit... And I am definitely not mafia.

Let's bring back the wagon from where we left off... And don't let nark plead his innocence this time and get it taken off

[Fircoal]

You are mighty defensive in regards to answering a simple question Firecoal and your response is complete WIFOM based on supposed meta. Having a quick night offers NOTHING to who did what.

Second you completely twisted my statement in response Anarchy I said,
"I also found this post interesting in that you really try to minimize the roles this game may have especially mafia.
As I stated earlier Spiesr said this is a newb friendly game not a basic game. That does not mean mafia can not have roles."

It was suggested that scum would not have any roles at all. I strongly stand by my above statement.

Congrats, that's now at least the third time that you used WIFOM to try to shake something off yourself. How many times are you going to use that instead of actually putting up a defence yourself.

Also I'm really unsure where you are getting that I was defensive. Nothing in what I wrote even sounds like a defense. I wasn't trying to make a defense. Rather I was trying to point exactly why I brought up what I did and why it is important.

Not to add it gets us a better idea of what we have in the town. Yes I forgot there were confirmed two mafia members but what if there were not? It'd be better for us to kick around the possibility. I find it funny how you are the one to remember that for sure there are 2 mafia, while both me and Kgb forget. Maybe there is a reason for that. ;3

Load of crap this statement. The reason I know is that when you suggested this "theory" I reread the opening scene again. Something you were either to to lazy to do before opining, not Once but twice or because you were hoping to plant that seed in peoples minds hoping no one would notice.

Right, or you could have known you had a scum buddy and checked to make sure that it was stated before. Although really I think it's more likely that as town, me and kgb would forget something like that. I mean why would either of us bring that up or think about it if we're bombarded with the idea. I don't think mafia's first instinct with a quick night is to spin around and suggest there is only one mafia member. Espeically when the sense of the game to that point says there wasn't there. However if you want to call WIFOM to that, feel free to, because that line of logic is much more shakey and more foamy considering a player X. Although if you think about who me and Kgb are, you can get a better idea of how what chance of ours is more likely.

Also btw I will admit that I did not recheck the scene, I didn't feel like there would be any need to. I also admit that I probably didn't even check the scene the first time, being mired in a bunch of inaction as well as the slightly documented fact that I tend not to read that many scenes. I'm usually much more concerned with what other people are saying, not what the scene says. So no I probably didn't read it, so I would have no idea that it was stated.

[Iron Butterfly]

Everything you offer up has been pure speculation or based in half truth. I call your arguments WIFOM for a reason. (wine in front of me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

[Iron Butterfly]

my apologies but start at 1:26

[The Weird One]

First off, sorry for the delay. Exam in twelve hours. Last one for a couple of weeks, though...so at least there's that.
Now that that's out of the way, here comes the disjointed sleep-deprived ramblings. Enjoy!

Nark, you say that you have suspicions...would you care to share with the class?

Fircoal, you say that it's surprising to have had such a short night or that it speaks of some high level of inactivity. . . You do realize that all players and the mod are from the states, right? There's not that much of a time gap, so it would make sense that it would be resolved quickly. Twenty hours is a bit quick, but with everyone clustered so tightly [regarding time zones], it's not that out of place. It almost seems that you're trying to shift the attention toward the actives when you yourself have been less active [I know you have been inactive due to real life, but that doesn't stop it from appearing that you're trying to slide attention far away from you]
Post in question:

Yes. something else to note is that communicating with each other over that time would be hard, so likely the two scummy scums were both on at the same time or one of them decided to send in the action themselves.

Random question to Nark:

Of course, due to my thought processes, that immediately makes me think the scum is someone decently new to mafia... Of course, someone with experience doesn't kill off the people who post a lot because THOSE are the people who typically get into linguistic trouble...

Was there an ironic typo here? If not, please explain your reasoning...I'm baffled, honestly.

I find myself agreeing with the point IB brings up:

I also find it funny the both of you are trying to make it sound like there is just 1 mafia, which would only help mafia.

Not really related to anything, but screw it, this is my disjointed ramble, I can have as little cohesion as I damn well please! ...This line from you, nark, makes me laugh a bit...using this -admittedly sensible- line of reasoning, couldn't an experienced scum get away with killing people that were heading up their lynch mobs during night one and two using this logic as protection? Since they're experienced, nobody would assume it was them...anyway, back to some semblance of a topic...

Anybody with a brain who has ever played mafia knows better than to go after someone going after them... beyond that, your post is laughably ridiculous.. Why go after him with his one vote andZERO posts when people like IB are hardassing me?

And, for the love of the gods, can somebody please explain what the Hell WIFOM means aside from "whine in front of me"....I'm all kinds of confused...and humiliated by said confusion....

So, yes...those are my thoughts thus far...hope they make more sense to you than to me...and I hope I can post something moderately coherent, tomorrow, after the exam.

[JamesKer1]

Anybody with a brain who has ever played mafia knows better than to go after someone going after them... beyond that, your post is laughably ridiculous.. Why go after him with his one vote andZERO posts when people like IB are hardassing me?

Vote nark. Greg was quieter but voted you. Easy way to make it look like you aren't going after someone if you are mafia, but his only substantial vote was against you I believe, maybe one on IB. With the "quick communication", it actually IS important- it suggests how one sided the conversation is. A person who was killed off and on your wagon could save you today.

Also you seem to be pushing to find town power roles... Is that not suspicious?

And on top of all this and the previous suspicion, I REALLY don't like how much your first D2 post pointed to me. I am the only new person here and I post quite a bit... And I am definitely not mafia.

Let's bring back the wagon from where we left off... And don't let nark plead his innocence this time and get it taken off

Apparently I wasn't clear- your wagon didn't make it to lynch you. Four people can easily screw us up, and two of them are mafia.
So any one hopping off a wagon is a huge relief for the mafia if they had one on them.

This would be my reasoning in killing Greg if I was you nark, as a mafia member: Greg is one of the four votes on my wagon, but he's quieter and doesn't make a huge deal about it. Out of anyone on the wagon, he would slip away without revealing that he was offed due to his intention to try and kill me. But if I off someone not on my wagon, then I'm dead, because it requires only four votes tomorrow.

I know I'm not the most experienced, but this makes the most sense to me. You are going after him because of his one post and zero posts- people like IB and myself look scummy on our own, and mafia doesn't even have to help out with that. (I am just clarifying, nark brought up IB so that is why the reference is in there. I don't want anything used against me in later posts.) And, looking at some old games... Isn't this very reasoning used at least a little bit? Maybe I'm just confused, that seems to happen a lot, but its pretty valid IMO.

[Iron Butterfly]

First off, sorry for the delay. Exam in twelve hours. Last one for a couple of weeks, though...so at least there's that.
Now that that's out of the way, here comes the disjointed sleep-deprived ramblings. Enjoy!

Nark, you say that you have suspicions...would you care to share with the class?

Fircoal, you say that it's surprising to have had such a short night or that it speaks of some high level of inactivity. . . You do realize that all players and the mod are from the states, right? There's not that much of a time gap, so it would make sense that it would be resolved quickly. Twenty hours is a bit quick, but with everyone clustered so tightly [regarding time zones], it's not that out of place. It almost seems that you're trying to shift the attention toward the actives when you yourself have been less active [I know you have been inactive due to real life, but that doesn't stop it from appearing that you're trying to slide attention far away from you]
Post in question:

Yes. something else to note is that communicating with each other over that time would be hard, so likely the two scummy scums were both on at the same time or one of them decided to send in the action themselves.

Random question to Nark:

Of course, due to my thought processes, that immediately makes me think the scum is someone decently new to mafia... Of course, someone with experience doesn't kill off the people who post a lot because THOSE are the people who typically get into linguistic trouble...

Was there an ironic typo here? If not, please explain your reasoning...I'm baffled, honestly.

I find myself agreeing with the point IB brings up:

I also find it funny the both of you are trying to make it sound like there is just 1 mafia, which would only help mafia.

Not really related to anything, but screw it, this is my disjointed ramble, I can have as little cohesion as I damn well please! ...This line from you, nark, makes me laugh a bit...using this -admittedly sensible- line of reasoning, couldn't an experienced scum get away with killing people that were heading up their lynch mobs during night one and two using this logic as protection? Since they're experienced, nobody would assume it was them...anyway, back to some semblance of a topic...

Anybody with a brain who has ever played mafia knows better than to go after someone going after them... beyond that, your post is laughably ridiculous.. Why go after him with his one vote andZERO posts when people like IB are hardassing me?

And, for the love of the gods, can somebody please explain what the Hell WIFOM means aside from "whine in front of me"....I'm all kinds of confused...and humiliated by said confusion....

So, yes...those are my thoughts thus far...hope they make more sense to you than to me...and I hope I can post something moderately coherent, tomorrow, after the exam.

I left a link as the term refers to the wine scene in the movie " Princess Bride" Its a funny scene and sums up the meaning by example.

[The Weird One]

That h makes a difference. Thank you, ser.

[Fircoal]

Everything you offer up has been pure speculation or based in half truth. I call your arguments WIFOM for a reason. (wine in front of me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

Woah there. Let's get a couple of things cleared up here.

1) I know what WIFOM means.

2) This is a game of mafia. So much there is speculation. Without power roles claiming the wonderful things they find out we can't know anything for certainty. Rather we look at how people act and try to find who is being scummy. Obviously a lot of speculation is needed to do that. We can't really get far without people putting out their ideas and trying to get something off of it.

3) A lot of what I said isn't WIFOM. WIFOM is based off of someone acting a certain way because they expect others to act a certain way on it. Think about it. I highly doubt any mafia when they made their choose of night kill are actually thinking. "YEAH! LET'S DO THIS REALLY FAST SO EVERYONE THINKS ITS AN ACTIVE MAFIA TEAM!" No they're more concerned with getting in the kill than setting up something like that. Then when you add it the fact that the other power roles have to send in their actions as well it makes it for an impossible plan. Rather what AD brought up with that it must be an inactive who killed James is more with WIFOM, because a mafia team could easily decide to kill an inactiveish member because it would finger newer members rather than themselves. However you seemed to not display much of a problem with that.

And then my opinions on you have nothing to do with WIFOM. It's me finding what you doing as scummy. I admitted when I started to go into the WIFOM territory, (which had to do with me and Kgb pointing out the wrong idea of their being only one mafia member. Because THERE we don't know if as mafia we tried to bring it up because we're confused. Or because as town we didn't know it was two, because we're town and didn't know. )

[Fircoal]

Fircoal, you say that it's surprising to have had such a short night or that it speaks of some high level of inactivity. . . You do realize that all players and the mod are from the states, right? There's not that much of a time gap, so it would make sense that it would be resolved quickly. Twenty hours is a bit quick, but with everyone clustered so tightly [regarding time zones], it's not that out of place. It almost seems that you're trying to shift the attention toward the actives when you yourself have been less active [I know you have been inactive due to real life, but that doesn't stop it from appearing that you're trying to slide attention far away from you]
Post in question:

Yes. something else to note is that communicating with each other over that time would be hard, so likely the two scummy scums were both on at the same time or one of them decided to send in the action themselves.

I didn't know that everyone was from the states. Maybe it's because I'm speaking from my own experience of delaying my own actions and not communicating with my teammates well. (I have serious communication issues) I really didn't expect it and I still think something can be thought about it.
And btw I'm not trying to shift attention away from myself because if you have noticed the end of yesterday and the beginning of today I have been quite active. I would expect to be considered active for that time even though I haven't been for the full time.

[Fircoal]

I also find it funny the both of you are trying to make it sound like there is just 1 mafia, which would only help mafia.

btw, by extension of my argument prior, isn't this also WIFOM, Xir WIFOM Caller?

[kgb007]

now i finally get where the WIFOM reference comes from! never saw princess bride before...

now onto the arguments, it seems we have two skirmishes going on between IB and Fir and James and Nark

Sorry to see you go Greg. Definitely not someone I was expecting...

Nor I... As seldom as he was posting, I didn't understand the need to off him so quickly...

Of course, due to my thought processes, that immediately makes me think the scum is someone decently new to mafia... Of course, someone with experience doesn't kill off the people who post a lot because THOSE are the people who typically get into linguistic trouble...

did greg even post that much in D1 though?

Vote nark. Greg was quieter but voted you. Easy way to make it look like you aren't going after someone if you are mafia, but his only substantial vote was against you I believe, maybe one on IB. With the "quick communication", it actually IS important- it suggests how one sided the conversation is. A person who was killed off and on your wagon could save you today.

Also you seem to be pushing to find town power roles... Is that not suspicious?

And on top of all this and the previous suspicion, I REALLY don't like how much your first D2 post pointed to me. I am the only new person here and I post quite a bit... And I am definitely not mafia.

Let's bring back the wagon from where we left off... And don't let nark plead his innocence this time and get it taken off

nark - i'd like to hear more about your suspicions, as you explain the quick night phase as being within James' behavior, and it draws a quick OMGUS-ish vote from James

James' later post as to why Nark would target greg makes sense but isn't that just more WIFOM??

as for IB and Fir, I'm just all kinds of lost in the WIFOM arguments and what is and isn't suppose to WIFOM..

[JamesKer1]

Why does everything have to be WIFOM? WIFOM here, WIFOM there, WIFOM Everywhere(116? Remember that from somewhere...)

Can't an argument JUST MAKE SENSE?

And why does everyone attribute the quick night to me? I would try to be quick as a town PR and think about my target in advance, but as a mafia I would talk over stuff with my scumbuddy- and I definitely don't have time to talk with someone consistently, my time I can spend on here is random and erratic.

[Fircoal]

Why does everything have to be WIFOM? WIFOM here, WIFOM there, WIFOM Everywhere(116? Remember that from somewhere...)

Can't an argument JUST MAKE SENSE?

I agree with James so hard right here.

And why does everyone attribute the quick night to me? I would try to be quick as a town PR and think about my target in advance, but as a mafia I would talk over stuff with my scumbuddy- and I definitely don't have time to talk with someone consistently, my time I can spend on here is random and erratic.

I was bringing up your mainly as an example. Really you seem like more of an erratic player.

[JamesKer1]

did greg even post that much in D1 though?

NO. I said this in the quote below, which you already quoted. Not a bad thing, I respect his playing style- just a statement of fact.

Greg was quieter but voted you. Easy way to make it look like you aren't going after someone if you are mafia, but his only substantial vote was against you I believe, maybe one on IB.

[quote"KBG007"]nark - i'd like to hear more about your suspicions, as you explain the quick night phase as being within James' behavior, and it draws a quick OMGUS-ish vote from James
[/quote]

What? No, just no. Did you miss all of day 1? Towards the end, I was trying to get more people on the Nark wagon- that vote is not random! I am not no lynching day two since its a waste and a free kill for mafia (all we got from last night is that the post was 20 hours apparently). That was not an OMGUS vote- it was furthering my suspicions.

Now, if I can run with a small scene detail for a little bit, forgot to bring this up...

Fear began to grip the citizens of Waterdale. They knew the escaped convicts had infiltrated their midsts and soon no one knew who to trust. They tried hunt for the hidden danger but everywhere they searched they only found that which seemed to belong. As the sun hung low in the sky the search was called off. No one wanted to be caught out at night with those men on the loose. The citizens retired to their homes looking back at what they are feared may be their last sunset.

Is it just me, or does this wording imply that someone who has claimed isn't telling us the truth, but they SEEM to belong? So KGB or Nark? Maybe not, thought I would bring this up to see if it was valid at all.

JamesKer1, in the future please use the word "Vote" when voting.

Must have been a typo, sorry Just saw this line.

[JamesKer1]

did greg even post that much in D1 though?

NO. I said this in the quote below, which you already quoted. Not a bad thing, I respect his playing style- just a statement of fact.

Greg was quieter but voted you. Easy way to make it look like you aren't going after someone if you are mafia, but his only substantial vote was against you I believe, maybe one on IB.

[quote"kgb007"]nark - i'd like to hear more about your suspicions, as you explain the quick night phase as being within James' behavior, and it draws a quick OMGUS-ish vote from James

What? No, just no. Did you miss all of day 1? Towards the end, I was trying to get more people on the Nark wagon- that vote is not random! I am not no lynching day two since its a waste and a free kill for mafia (all we got from last night is that the post was 20 hours apparently). That was not an OMGUS vote- it was furthering my suspicions.

Now, if I can run with a small scene detail for a little bit, forgot to bring this up...

Fear began to grip the citizens of Waterdale. They knew the escaped convicts had infiltrated their midsts and soon no one knew who to trust. They tried hunt for the hidden danger but everywhere they searched they only found that which seemed to belong. As the sun hung low in the sky the search was called off. No one wanted to be caught out at night with those men on the loose. The citizens retired to their homes looking back at what they are feared may be their last sunset.

Is it just me, or does this wording imply that someone who has claimed isn't telling us the truth, but they SEEM to belong? So KGB or Nark? Maybe not, thought I would bring this up to see if it was valid at all.

JamesKer1, in the future please use the word "Vote" when voting.

Must have been a typo, sorry Just saw this line.[/quote]


EBWOP for clarity in formatting...