men, women, social historians a question:

[Phatscotty]

not 100% (as Mrs. stated)

You sure about that?

In Sweden a couple gets a year of parental leave after their child is born. 3 months for each parent, and 6 months to use as they please.

In America, politicians declare that rape victims should be forced to have their children because 'God wants it'.

The differences could not be more stark.

That's what it looked like to me. See what Mets and Lootifer say though, they are the law around here when it comes to pointing out whenever I say something generalized like that, they make sure to get me to state that in issue xyz it's only 99% and not 100%.

To be clear, you might have said 'some politicians' or '1 out of 10 politicians', but then that would not work with your point. Your point only works if all or almost all politicians in America forced rape victims to carry the baby to birth, which is how we know what you meant. But since it's an issue Mets and Lootifer would like to push, they're giving you a pass and giving me shit.

The statement is quite literally true. mrswdk didn't say "all politicians." Just "politicians." Since there is more than one American politician who has said this, there is nothing wrong with the statement. And the point of the statement -- that this is considered an acceptable view for a mainstream politician to hold -- is valid even if it's a small percentage of politicians who openly state it.

Fell right into it eh? That's where this hypocricy gets ya. If the statement is true the way you say it is, then what Mrs. said could be said about ANY country, since they has 'politicians' somewhere who think rape victims should be forced to carry the baby to birth. So in your context, Mrs. statement is totally meaningless, and says nothing about America that isn't also true about every other country.

[Metsfanmax]

not 100% (as Mrs. stated)

You sure about that?

In Sweden a couple gets a year of parental leave after their child is born. 3 months for each parent, and 6 months to use as they please.

In America, politicians declare that rape victims should be forced to have their children because 'God wants it'.

The differences could not be more stark.

That's what it looked like to me. See what Mets and Lootifer say though, they are the law around here when it comes to pointing out whenever I say something generalized like that, they make sure to get me to state that in issue xyz it's only 99% and not 100%.

To be clear, you might have said 'some politicians' or '1 out of 10 politicians', but then that would not work with your point. Your point only works if all or almost all politicians in America forced rape victims to carry the baby to birth, which is how we know what you meant. But since it's an issue Mets and Lootifer would like to push, they're giving you a pass and giving me shit.

The statement is quite literally true. mrswdk didn't say "all politicians." Just "politicians." Since there is more than one American politician who has said this, there is nothing wrong with the statement. And the point of the statement -- that this is considered an acceptable view for a mainstream politician to hold -- is valid even if it's a small percentage of politicians who openly state it.

Fell right into it eh? That's where your hypocricy gets ya. If the statement is true the way you say it is, then what Mrs. said could be said about ANY country, since they have at least 1 politician somewhere who thinks rape victims should be forced to carry the baby to birth. So in your context, Mrs. statement is totally meaningless, and says nothing about America that isn't also true about every other country.

I don't care if the statement is meaningless, it's not my statement (although it's not meaningless; see the point you ignored about how the implication of the statement is something that's true about America and not other countries). I was just defending its validity.

[Phatscotty]

so, then...according to you, 'In America, politicians declare that rape victims should be forced to have their children' is true.

Doesn't that mean that the statement 'In America, politicians declare that rape victims should not be forced to have their children' is false?

[Metsfanmax]

so, then...according to you, 'In America, politicians declare that rape victims should be forced to have their children' is true.

Doesn't that mean that the statement 'In America, politicians declare that rape victims should not be forced to have their children' is false?

No. There are lots of politicians who claim both of those things, so they are both true. The only thing worth discussing is whether the former view is seen as mainstream and advocated by important politicians. This is true in America (see my earlier list) but not true in many other countries.

[Phatscotty]

This will be fun since I expect you will no longer correct me if I say something like "New Yorkers are Communists"

What you are saying is we can make any blanket statement we want about an entire people, so long as the statement is true for at least a few people in that group.

[Metsfanmax]

This will be fun since I expect you will no longer correct me if I say something like "New Yorkers are Communists"

Why would I? It's well known that we're pinko commies.

What you are saying is we can make any blanket statement we want about an entire people, so long as the statement is true for at least 2 people.

No, what I am saying is this:

The only thing worth discussing is whether the former view is seen as mainstream and advocated by important politicians. This is true in America (see my earlier list) but not true in many other countries.

[Phatscotty]

This will be fun since I expect you will no longer correct me if I say something like "New Yorkers are Communists"

Why would I? It's well known that we're pinko commies.

What you are saying is we can make any blanket statement we want about an entire people, so long as the statement is true for at least 2 people.

No, what I am saying is this:

The only thing worth discussing is whether the former view is seen as mainstream and advocated by important politicians. This is true in America (see my earlier list) but not true in many other countries.

What is worth discussing is which version is most true (mainstream) and which version is least true.

The most true version is mainstream. According to your number which I assume is the most supportive of your own point of view (80% think they can abort, 20% think they shouldn't abort). You are holding up the minority as mainstream.

The position of the 80% is mainstream.

[Phatscotty]

btw, how come you never let mrs. respond to questions addressed to mrs.? especially with me, you are always jumping in to speak for mrs.

inb4

Spoiler

"Mets said exactly what I would have said, so 'ditto Mets' I guess."

[Metsfanmax]

This will be fun since I expect you will no longer correct me if I say something like "New Yorkers are Communists"

Why would I? It's well known that we're pinko commies.

What you are saying is we can make any blanket statement we want about an entire people, so long as the statement is true for at least 2 people.

No, what I am saying is this:

The only thing worth discussing is whether the former view is seen as mainstream and advocated by important politicians. This is true in America (see my earlier list) but not true in many other countries.

What is worth discussing is which version is most true (mainstream) and which version is least true.

The most true version is mainstream. According to your number which I assume is the most supportive of your own point of view (80% think they can abort, 20% think they shouldn't abort). You are holding up the minority as mainstream.

The position of the 80% is mainstream.

That's not what I mean by mainstream. Minority views can be mainstream if they're thought of as legitimate positions to hold, and considered to be main perspectives on the issue. For example, regardless of which position is more popular at present, those who support and those who oppose gay marriage both hold mainstream points of view, even though one is in the minority. Similarly, when it comes to abortion, there are a few perspectives that are generally considered the main alternatives among politicians who debate it: abortion legal in all or most circumstances; abortion illegal except in cases of rape, incest or danger to the life of the mother; or abortion always illegal. I think people who accuse the latter of being a fringe perspective are unjustified; 20% acceptance of an ideal in the population requires serious consideration as a political fact, even if the idea itself is nonsense.

[mrswdk]

Kisses for not replying. I live in a different time zone to you, so generally when all of you guys are online with your claws out at the same time I'm tucked up in bed recharging this big brain of mine. And then I come back and see that Mets has already done such a fantastic job of representing that there's no point in getting involved.

But yeah, "what Mets said". My point was that mainstream politicians can express such views without losing their positions. I can't imagine politicians in many other countries getting away with saying that they believe rape victims ought to give birth to their rapist's child. And now we have the statistic that 20% of Americans agree with them. That's extreme to the maximum.

[khazalid]

same old bigmouths hogging every thread with US FUCKING POLITICS.

ZZZZZ.

give it a fucking rest willya? srsly

[mrswdk]

We would talk about Scottish politics if not for the fact that 90% of it just involves waving a Scotland flag around and blaming the English for everything.

[john9blue]

well excuse US for being the most important and influential country in the world. sorry that your country doesn't matter as much, but there can only be one #1.

[khazalid]

well excuse US for being the most important and influential country in the world. sorry that your country doesn't matter as much, but there can only be one #1.

yes, but this thread has absolutely f*ck all to do with the us of a, specifically. and there are a million other threads which do, and which you can spam to your hearts content.

[PLAYER57832]

at what point did feminism stop being about equality and start being about superiority?

was it ever thus?

Any time one group asks for equality or just more power, the folks in control claim that its not about equality, its about becoming superior.

The fact is that all men and women are not "equal" in any measurable sense. If you allow women to compete, some WILL be in control, WILL be your boss, etc, etc. To some men, that is a threat. They don't have confidence in their own abilities or think that their being a male automatically means they ought to be better.

On top of that, some people always do want to gain an advantage... men AND women. Some people will use anything.

[khazalid]

the 'folks in control' are proclaiming absolutely nothing of the sort!