Version 11.6 FRANCE 2.1

[vintender]

i think the map is awesome!

[Armandolas]

i support some ideas about reducing or letting go the neuts around paris. Im playing a poly 4 no spoils and none of us felt the need to go there. Not sure about other settings

[Gilligan]

Yes, definitely lower Paris. Once there's an XML update I'll send it off.

Really liking this map for large-player games, and polymorphic 4.

[betiko]

Just had an idea... How about the neutrals around paris and paris itself go -1 each round? So you could start attacking the suburbs easily after 4 rounds only and paris after 9? Of course you could attack earlier.

But since this is a new map feature, it sounds like it would be perfect here.

[betiko]

I would probably not put any neutrals on the parisian petite couronne, just on paris itself.

the what?

Paris region is called the Ile de France (island of France).
Paris is in its center, and then you have like 2 layers of suburbs. They are commonly called the petite couronne (small crown) and the grande couronne (big crown).

[vintender]

maybe change the neutrals to 2's instead of 3's?...get them in play more perhaps

[Donelladan]

i support some ideas about reducing or letting go the neuts around paris. Im playing a poly 4 no spoils and none of us felt the need to go there. Not sure about other settings

I rarely see people going for objectif when there is only 2 teams facing each other, and that on any map, except if it is trench.
I just won a France 2.1, 3 teams, by taking the objectif in a fog games.

I am strongly against reducing the neutral on paris. I think objectif should be relatively difficult to take. Again, if we compare with other maps, most maps with objectif have an objectif quite difficult to take because of the neutrals on it.
Objectif should be accessible in the middle of the game, once you have already some bonus.



I am more concerned with the foreign claims. Because you can take them only if you have paris, I think nobody will take them except if they go for the objectif. Therefore Foreign claims will never be used, only be taken at the same time as the objectif.

[TheMissionary]

Should Charente-Maritime be capable of attacking Dordogne?

[Gilligan]

Should Charente-Maritime be capable of attacking Dordogne?

I do see a connection there. It's quite faint, though. Lance, maybe you could make that line a little darker?

[Mishalex]

OK, i've read all your comments but I need Lancelot point of view here...

Here are mine:
- for reducing Paris neutral, I think we could let Paris on 10 if we change the foreign claim way of attacking.
- for the dordogne-charente maritime connection, I do see a connection here but not in the XML, not sure it will help a lot in the game to make it real...

[iAmCaffeine]

Not played too many games on the map so far, although I really like it, but as of yet I haven't seen the objective come into play once. By the time you have the bonuses required it's already over anyway.

[Donelladan]

- for the dordogne-charente maritime connection, I do see a connection here but not in the XML, not sure it will help a lot in the game to make it real...

doesnt matter if it helps or not, they are connected on the map they should be too in the XML

- for reducing Paris neutral, I think we could let Paris on 10 if we change the foreign claim way of attacking.

how do you plan to change it ?
I need to know I am on a tournament on this map

[Lancelot du Lac]

Hi,

Thank you for your suggestions.

I will make a summary of what I think to do. Then I await your comments before starting work.

Tonight you can read my suggestions.

Thanks

[Lancelot du Lac]

First, thank you all for these discussions about the gameplay.

With my friend Mishalex, we decided to improve the following points. It's difficult to satisfy everybody. I hope we've forgetten nothing.


1) Foreign claims can be attacked from adjacent territory
example : Alpes-Maritimes can attack Monaco

2) Number of neutral's troops on Paris will be decfrease reduced to 7 troops
example : Paris starts with 7 troops neutral

3) In the suburbs, stop the rivers before. Create a connexion between Paris and suburbs 4.
example : Suburbs 4 can attack Paris, Paris can attack suburb 4. Suburb 4 can atack suburb 3, suburb 3 can attack suburb 4


4) Connexion between Charente-Maritime and Dordogne don't exist.

[celliottii]

I posted this in a Bug Report a couple of days ago, but since it's a Beta map, I figure I better post it here since it's still happening.

I'm in Game 13960108 (trips, no spoils, fog) and I'm Blue on Team 1.

We're in Round 4 and for the last 3 rounds, I've been unable to access any part of the Game Panel to play this map. I'm not running into this problem in any other game. Once I turn off the Game Panel, I'm able to play my turn and access the Game Chat and other features.

I'm not a programmer and I don't know if anyone else has reported this "bug" yet or not.

It's a good map...Thanks for making it!

[celliottii]

I posted this in a Bug Report a couple of days ago, but since it's a Beta map, I figure I better post it here since it's still happening.

I'm in Game 13960108 (trips, no spoils, fog) and I'm Blue on Team 1.

We're in Round 4 and for the last 3 rounds, I've been unable to access any part of the Game Panel to play this map. I'm not running into this problem in any other game. Once I turn off the Game Panel, I'm able to play my turn and access the Game Chat and other features.

I'm not a programmer and I don't know if anyone else has reported this "bug" yet or not.

It's a good map...Thanks for making it!

[Gilligan]

I posted this in a Bug Report a couple of days ago, but since it's a Beta map, I figure I better post it here since it's still happening.

I'm in Game 13960108 (trips, no spoils, fog) and I'm Blue on Team 1.

We're in Round 4 and for the last 3 rounds, I've been unable to access any part of the Game Panel to play this map. I'm not running into this problem in any other game. Once I turn off the Game Panel, I'm able to play my turn and access the Game Chat and other features.

I'm not a programmer and I don't know if anyone else has reported this "bug" yet or not.

It's a good map...Thanks for making it!

I use panels and I have no issues with that game

[celliottii]

I posted this in a Bug Report a couple of days ago, but since it's a Beta map, I figure I better post it here since it's still happening.

I'm in Game 13960108 (trips, no spoils, fog) and I'm Blue on Team 1.

We're in Round 4 and for the last 3 rounds, I've been unable to access any part of the Game Panel to play this map. I'm not running into this problem in any other game. Once I turn off the Game Panel, I'm able to play my turn and access the Game Chat and other features.

I'm not a programmer and I don't know if anyone else has reported this "bug" yet or not.

It's a good map...Thanks for making it!

I use panels and I have no issues with that game

It's weird...I play the map in other games, but in this one game, I've got issues. It's a trips game, so I don't know if that's what is causing it or not...

[Gilligan]

I posted this in a Bug Report a couple of days ago, but since it's a Beta map, I figure I better post it here since it's still happening.

I'm in Game 13960108 (trips, no spoils, fog) and I'm Blue on Team 1.

We're in Round 4 and for the last 3 rounds, I've been unable to access any part of the Game Panel to play this map. I'm not running into this problem in any other game. Once I turn off the Game Panel, I'm able to play my turn and access the Game Chat and other features.

I'm not a programmer and I don't know if anyone else has reported this "bug" yet or not.

It's a good map...Thanks for making it!

I use panels and I have no issues with that game

It's weird...I play the map in other games, but in this one game, I've got issues. It's a trips game, so I don't know if that's what is causing it or not...

i'm not sure. you could go to bug reports.

[Gilligan]

First, thank you all for these discussions about the gameplay.

With my friend Mishalex, we decided to improve the following points. It's difficult to satisfy everybody. I hope we've forgetten nothing.


1) Foreign claims can be attacked from adjacent territory
example : Alpes-Maritimes can attack Monaco

2) Number of neutral's troops on Paris will be decfrease reduced to 7 troops
example : Paris starts with 7 troops neutral

3) In the suburbs, stop the rivers before. Create a connexion between Paris and suburbs 4.
example : Suburbs 4 can attack Paris, Paris can attack suburb 4. Suburb 4 can atack suburb 3, suburb 3 can attack suburb 4


4) Connexion between Charente-Maritime and Dordogne don't exist.

are there files to go with this so it can be updated?

[The Bison King]

Looks like you guys are addressing some of the small concerns I had. I'm playing a game right now and the whole Paris inset is pretty well being completely ignored. Though I'm not a big one on victory conditions any way.

Over all I just want to say I LOVE this map! I LOOOOOVE big maps. This one is fantastic, so many bonuses, very well spaced out and divided. A good amount and placement of impassables, allowing most all bonuses to be useable. All corners of the map are balanced. In a trench game I could even see where you could build from certain parts of the middle. Very well done, very balanced. A+++

I'd love to see more maps like this! It even makes me want to get back into making maps myself.

[Momo33]

I love this map, nice job misha and lancelot. But like I already told you, all Paris and Foreign Claims don't come to play. The only way I see them coming into play is in a trench game. Too much neutrals on Paris for my part.

But I really like the realism of the map and the way you made every details important!

[smegal69]

played this a few times now and are starting to really like this map........ but

i have never seen the Objective come into play, are the neutrals to big and that is why people don't go for it?

love all the little bonuses you can pick up, great playing trench on it

[koontz1973]

1) Foreign claims can be attacked from adjacent territory
example : Alpes-Maritimes can attack Monaco

I would leave this as it is. It works in all the games I have played with the map and honestly, this part needs no tweaking.

2) Number of neutral's troops on Paris will be decfrease reduced to 7 troops
example : Paris starts with 7 troops neutral

Agreed.

3) In the suburbs, stop the rivers before. Create a connexion between Paris and suburbs 4.
example : Suburbs 4 can attack Paris, Paris can attack suburb 4. Suburb 4 can atack suburb 3, suburb 3 can attack suburb 4

Again, I would leave this as it is. This little point can be used in great effect for defence.

IMO, just number 2 is needed for this map now.

are there files to go with this so it can be updated?

Does not seem to be any yet.

[MoB Deadly]

As per the March Challenge here are my feelings,

Thing you like about the map.
This is one of my favorite maps in Beta right now.
Standard map, large map, Easy to read, and bonuses are not overpowering!



Thing you dislike about the map.
I think maybe the Paris mechanic should be a little more accessible. Maybe lower the amount of neutrals you have to go through. I have only played a couple times but if you need to use paris, you are already behind so the neutrals really hurt.

Maybe make the water a little different to add a more artificial border. If you make it obviously not the same style as regions it may look better, but that is being very nitpicky. I really enjoy the map as it is.