PaulatPeace / The Draganator [Mas]

[Chariot of Fire]

Accused:

PaulatPeace
The Draganator


The accused are suspected of:

One player controlling the account of the other.


Game number(s):

Numerous. See http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?m ... nator&so=D


Comments:

This time last year PaulatPeace stated that The Draganator was his eight-year-old grandson. This (very) young lad played seven games solo, all with quite peculiar settings for a first-timer (e.g. unlimited forts, manual deployment, escalating spoils). Playing these settings, esp esc, on the Classic map was a particular favourite of PaulatPeace (almost 600 games on Classic).

Point #1. Please read the game chat in any of the seven games played solo by The Draganator and you will see how frequently PaulatPeace covered his turns.

Now, after losing the first 7 games and getting a really low rank and score, The Draganator all of a sudden starts partnering PaulatPeace in doubs games (exclusively so in fact - no 'fun' singles games). Given his extremely poor attendance in his opening few games (which were covered by Paul) why all of a sudden is he joining public doubs games?

Point #2. PaulatPeace benefits from the extremely low score of his partner which is why he plays doubs with him.

It is my belief that PaulatPeace is controlling the account of his eight-year-old (now 10 apparently) grandson - by accessing The Draganator's account and entering him in doubles games with himself and then playing the turns. The likelihood is that The Draganator seldom, if ever, revisits this site.

This is very similar, in my belief, to the Blitzaholic case wherein the better player controls the account of a low-ranker to boost his score (winning more points & losing less points).

Thank you.

[Chariot of Fire]

From PaulatPeace profile:

Last visited:Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:30 am

and has gone offline.


From The Draganator's profile:

Last visited:Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:31 am

One minute after PatP went offline The Draganator came online and played in Game 13846590 at 10.32 am

[PaulatPeace]

Greetings,

This is my first attempt at defending myself against an accusation by another player in this forum so kindly forgive any mistakes I may make regarding the appropriate information to provide.

If I understand correctly Chariot of Fire is accusing my grandson Christian and I of arranging for me to "control" his account. Apparently the reason for this is for me to somehow gain points. I will state at this time that this is absolutely false! I will also state that Honesty and Integrity are extremely important to me and also virtues which I wish to example as a grandfather.

Christian and I started playing RISK together when he was about 7. When he found out I played games on CC, he asked if he could play also. His dad helped him set up an account and he and I would discuss his moves either in person together or over the phone. Christian lives less than a mile from me. He would often forget to coordinate his turn with me or even to check his games and I would cover for him so he would not miss a turn. I have always stated who I was in a game whenever I needed to take a turn for him.

Christian lost interest in CC and didn't play any games for quite a while. When he asked if he could start playing again with me helping him, I suggested we play doubles games so I would always know when his turn was up and could better make suggestions regarding his moves. He very much liked the idea of playing with his grandfather on a team together.

We played several games together over the months following. He would take many turns himself and I would sometimes have to take them for him or he would miss a turn. Recently his interest has diminished again and as you can see, we are currently only playing 1 game together. He and I chose the game together but it will likely be our last for a while as he has joined the chess club at school and finds it a more interesting game.

It has always been my understanding that sitting in a game for a teammate or another player is not only permitted, but encouraged. I have seen instances where players would cover games for their teammates or friends for a month or two or for "indefinite" periods of time. If you look at the results of the games my grandson and I played together, I believe you will see I did not benefit much if at all from them except to experience the enjoyment of playing a game with him. If my intention was to "control" his account with the purpose of racking up a bunch of points, I believe you would see me having played a lot more games with him than I have, with slightly better outcomes. I do find it ironic though that COF would make this accusation against my grandson and myself when apparently he was guilty of serious abuse of the same infraction at a much more extensive level.

I am here to answer any and all questions moderators or those in charge of this process may wish to ask of me. I will not engage in discussion with COF as I find him insulting and mean spirited.

I will say in closing that if you look at games COF and I have been in together, and discussions I have had with others and even himself personally concerning his actions and verbal assaults, you will very quickly come to the realization that this is in reality a viscous attack on me personally because of differences of opinion, and not because of any real perceived cheating or abuse. One need only look at the chat in our most recent Feudal Epic game together to understand the true motivation for his actions against me.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to defend my grandson and myself against this ugliness. I am sorry you have to be subjected to it!

Sincerely,

PaulatPeace

[universalchiro]

Sounds like a reasonable explanation of the event ChariotsofFire saw. Both players are nice players, maybe just looking through different ends of the telescope. Time to bury the hatchet and be friends.

[Dougal McTavish]

I second that. Paul has always struck me as having integrity.

Dougal.

[elfish_lad]

Heya Paul,

Cynical is the word that comes to mind as I read this thread. Or maybe jaded. It's so easy to just assume that every situation that seems different is a cheating situation. The fact of the matter is this thread exists for the simple reason that there a plethora of those who seem to either cheat or twist the situation in their favour by bending the rules while not actually breaking them or just out right cheat. Those kind of things make the site less fun and certainly not equitable.

I recently posted two names here and in the end regretted posting both of them. I don't have the energy or (apparently) the skill to weed out the thistles from the flowers. But in truth I am glad there are others who spend the time to track these things down, otherwise it's just a waste of time for all of us.

I would like to believe your story true. In fact I've chosen to believe your written words. I've never played you, never heard of you before, but I liked the story. As a man of similar age (I'm assuming) I had a great (and frustrating to be honest) time playing a few games with my son AppleJuiceKing when he was in the area and while he was in France. In fact CC was one of the easiest ways for us to communicate while he was away.

Nonetheless, there have been lots of stories in the past that turned out to be horse-pucks. Just the facts of CC I guess.

I'll keep an eye out now and join one of your poly-quads. In fact, send me an invite if you feel like it, it could be fun. I love to give my hard earned points away.

And, for the record he IS called Chariot... of... FIRE. But a very honourable bloke nonetheless in my estimation and one I consider friend and comrade in arms and life.

Cheers,

E.

[drpall]

I too have to support Paul.

I understand why CoF made the report, but I am convinced Paul did not break the rules here.

Indeed it should be allowed for a father / grandfather to play online risk with hid son / grandson. I find the whole story not only plausible but very likely and beutiful. As a father I know that kids change interest / focus all the time and I too would help my kid out if he/she was missing turns.. just like I do for my fellow clan mates.

I don't know Paul, but this whole thing does not strike me as being dishonest. Therefore I do not feel that any action should be done here. A warning at most. Paul tried a beutiful thing.. namely introducing a youngling to our wonderful site.It didn't work out as hoped but it seems as if he tried to make the best of it. That should not be punished.

I hope that you Paul and your grandson will keep playing the boardgame. It is a great game!

[Fruitcake]

Both of you guys are friends of mine here on cc, so on the one hand this is a difficult read. On the other, it is a simple read.

I am instinctively concerned this is not all it seems and maybe CoF has got it wrong. On the other hand, I do know him to be quite a straight bat person who carries out his investigations thoroughly, so this, once again, balances the whole situation.

The problem I do have is that whilst there may be occasions where these scenarios look like one thing, often, reviewing can show another story.

I do have to point out that this is not, in my opinion like the Blitz case. In that there is no fielding of partners into other teams (that I have seen) then the turns being taken by said miscreant. Paul has always teamed with his Grandson so this is not comparable to that obvious rogue.

To be honest I would have preferred this was conducted in a private manner as befits the people involved and am only saddened it involves two players I like and respect.

[TheMissionary]

Ah, yes. I am not going to waste my time with an extensive dialogue. I spent enough time reading that of others. I can however say, that I've played games with Paul, in the past. I believe that his defense is conducted in the same way he represents himself at all times.

I have just recently started to get to know CoF. I do know he is an intelligent, straight forward, and professional player.

I would just like to see this post closed so we can get on with happy days. These reports are not a way to resolve differences, or a sound way to settle disputes. Get out the gloves, go a few rounds in battle. Loser buys the beer, winner provides the laughs.

C'mon it's supposed to be enjoyable.

[Keefie]

I have known Paul for some time and I would doubt very much that he's guilty of the charges laid against him.

[MagnusGreeol]

I have known Paul for some time and I would doubt very much that he's guilty of the charges laid against him.

- I'm in Paul's corner on this as well, I know him on a more personal level and can say he is quite a str8 shooter. Put this to rest I say. Salut Paul ! ")

[Woltato]

I've played loads of games with Paul in the past and he's a good bloke and I certainly don't think he's a cheat.

Genuine cheats should be rooted out but on the whole there's too many people who are overly paranoid on this site.

[The Draganator]

Hi,this is Christian,sometimes my grandpa plays for me because I am busy playing soccer,chess,doing homework and playing with my friends. I do take my turns a lot of the time and all the time when I am not busy.My grandpa and I would NEVER cheat!

[MagnusGreeol]

Hi,this is Christian,sometimes my grandpa plays for me because I am busy playing soccer,chess,doing homework and playing with my friends. I do take my turns a lot of the time and all the time when I am not busy.My grandpa and I would NEVER cheat!

- The End - ")

[Chariot of Fire]

Character references are one thing, but do you not think it's opening a Pandora's box if the site allows an experienced player to take many (if not all) of the turns of a low-ranker who he has brought on to his team?

I'm guessing IP checks can verify if The Draganator was joining these games himself and then taking a majority of his turns. If he wasn't then I'm sorry, but that's tantamount to controlling another account for personal gain.

Condoning it, or simply overlooking it (something I wasn't prepared to do once I had my suspicions) gives licence to everyone on this site to pop down to their local Starbucks, create a freemium account and claim "Yeah it's my neighbour, a good friend of mine but he travels a lot so I take most of his turns."

And if the logging out of one account and into the other is correct (my 2nd post in this thread) then it seems the notification in chat (X sitting for Y) has also become a casualty. Why not disclose it if there's nothing to hide?

[Swimmerdude99]

He's not a cheat. It is his Grandson, how does this effect you? Paul wouldn't cheat, and why wouldn't you address these questions to him first before publicly doing this? (I'm assuming you didn't, maybe you did). I'm pretty sure he could have explained as he did to you in pm, you could have shared your concerns etc.

[Chariot of Fire]

He's not a cheat

I didn't say he is.

It is his Grandson

I didn't say it isn't

how does this effect you

If affects every team in every game where they are playing together (low rank = more points)

and why wouldn't you address these questions to him first before publicly doing this?

Because I would be told it's his grandson who plays all turns made by The Draganator, yet I don't have the tools to verify this statement. Nor do you, so none of us can be sure. All we have is a hunch: me, that it's account abuse, and you that he's innocent. Only the mods can determine.

All I see is a pattern of PaulatPeace playing many turns on a freemium account once created by his grandson - and the extent of that turn-taking is beyond what anyone should consider fair or reasonable.

[malevolous]

You still should have confronted him in private. Some sort of resolution could have been reached, even if it was just to let him know another sitter should probably play if its needed more than 10% of the time, or something like that. I know you are highly opinionated, and you need everything to fall within your little ideal, but you don't need to blow everything out of proportion, and doing it in front of everyone is a dirty smear tactic just to make yourself look holy by dragging the suspected witch to the stake. Very unclassy, and possibly very damaging. You and I have had this discussion before. What is going on may be suspicious, but its clear, from everyone that knows him, that Paul seeks to do right, so a private conversation could have sufficed. If nothing changed, then you could go public.

[rh-headhunter]

i would like to offer my support for Paul's sterling integrity,i have played many games against him with lots of chat and i firmly believe this is an honest attempt to bring his grandson into a community that he enjoys and wants his family member to enjoy as well..his reputation here is much more important to Paul than grubbing out a few points..i have tried to bring my kids into games i have played in past years and they are fickle with short attention spans, kudos for trying... if you believe you have been cheated Chariot, im so sure of Pauls good intent i will make up what you feel you have lost,come play me and i will throw games till you are happy again.

[Chariot of Fire]

Sorry malevolous, but are you attacking me for filing a C&A report? It's what this forum is intended for. Despite Paul and I having played many games in the past we had recently reached a point where correspondence between us was no longer feasible. And trust me, it's never easy to file a report and there's no desire to "look holy" by doing so. Far easier to just ignore such things, right?

I've seen something I suspect to be foul play and reported it through the proper channel. It's not frivolous given the many occasions on which sitting has taken place. If I'm wrong I'll apologise and you can feel vindicated.

>headhunter. Nice post.

[HardAttack]

Is someone really going to bring up a remedy for the current/boring/1-2 months now lasting SITE LAG which is costing ur missing turns in speed games...Missing cards/turns ? I am losing games not because of my game play or not because of oppo is awesome player but SITE LAG kills me really...

I am so close to report those whoever it is responsible of this lag for
CHEATING
INTENTIONALLY GAME THROWING
INTENTIONALLY LEADING SPEED GAMERS DEADBEATS
INTENTIONALLY LEADING SPEED GAMERS MISS TURNS
and more ...

Please, do not tell me to avoid/stop playing speed games, instead block it speed games to an infinite period of time till you think you have fixed the problem to the end of there is no more a site LAG to cause above problems...

It is never smart to play here to find quilty/innocent basing on players attitudes/playing patterns and whatever but meanwhile please make neccesary check what your duties are and see what we really do need to keep on playing on this site...

About paulat,
i know him in person and he is such an amazing person whom i never wud think to cheat for such a little game...
some ppl like paulat have real busy lives, lives full of a lot of coming and going then why they wud ever bother thinking trying to find ways to cheat and so ?

[malevolous]

Sorry malevolous, but are you attacking me for filing a C&A report? It's what this forum is intended for. Despite Paul and I having played many games in the past we had recently reached a point where correspondence between us was no longer feasible. And trust me, it's never easy to file a report and there's no desire to "look holy" by doing so. Far easier to just ignore such things, right?

I've seen something I suspect to be foul play and reported it through the proper channel. It's not frivolous given the many occasions on which sitting has taken place. If I'm wrong I'll apologise and you can feel vindicated.

>headhunter. Nice post.

Even if you're right, you're still going about it the wrong way. I don't know about where you work, but if an intern is stapling documents 1 cm too far to the right for SOP, do you immediately go and try to get them fired? I should hope not, you should make sure they are aware first. Your cosnsequentialist, pessimistic philosophy may work in your head, but it only functions if you don't assume the best in people. Without that assumption, society can't function properly, or at least, it doesn't function with civility. You assume the worst in people; don't assume they will change unless you get a big enough stick, and don't assume there is justification beyond your hastily drawn suspicion. I'm not calling you out for posting a C&A report, or saying it should be ignored, I'm calling you out for not doing what you could before dragging a man's upstanding reputation through the mud. A thing which I am willing to call out in public because 1) you chose this theater and 2) we HAVE discussed this in private, and its obvious the behavior ISN'T changing.

[malevolous]

Paul is a good guy, always concerned with doing right. I highly doubt he has been cheating, especially with knowledge of, and defiance for, the rules. Further, he is not so set in his ways that he won't correct an indiscretion if it is pointed out to him. I have seen that in the games we played, especially when he was just starting out. He internalizes any advice, looks for the reason behind it, and ultimately makes the best decision. If there is an issue with his sitting, I'm confident he will remedy the situation. Hes just that kind of guy. Humble, teachable, and respectful.

[Chariot of Fire]

1. Does the intern doing the stapling realise he/she is doing wrong? No. Poor analogy.

2. Why are you making this so personal? I file a report and you come on here being judgmental about my character which has no relevance to the possible culpability of a third party. Do you see the hypocrisy (of your statements and your actions)? Why didn't you write to me privately in this instance? And talking of being holy, let's not even dwell on your statement about having talked to me before and that "the behaviour isn't changing". Just who do you think you are?

[malevolous]

1. Does the intern doing the stapling realise he/she is doing wrong? No. Poor analogy.

2. Why are you making this so personal? I file a report and you come on here being judgmental about my character which has no relevance to the possible culpability of a third party. Do you see the hypocrisy (of your statements and your actions)? Why didn't you write to me privately in this instance? And talking of being holy, let's not even dwell on your statement about having talked to me before and that "the behaviour isn't changing". Just who do you think you are?

I like how you just answered your own question: Why didn't you write to me privately? ...having talked to me before...

The point of the analogy is: you didn't check with him to determine he knows its wrong, so its dishonest, or at least underhanded, to go rat him as though he is fully aware without discussing it privately first. Perfect analogy. No hypocrisy here, as I followed my own advice: talk in private, if nothing changes, then the public sphere becomes more viable. Your initial question? C&A reports are inherently personal, so you chose this theater. Don't dish if you can't take it. Who am I? A personal witness to your self-centered, close-minded moral philosophy, and lack of civility or respect for boundaries. Since you seem to think that being a witness doesn't justify commenting on a person's behavior: who do you think you are doing it here? Now want to talk hypocrisy?