Age of Discoveries [24/10] [P5] [V9]

[isaiah40]

[MOVED] back!

[Armandolas]

[MOVED] back!

Thanks

[Nath77440]

So when do we test it?

Nath.

[Armandolas]

i wish we could test it soon, but it needs aprovals and community interest and participation

[koontz1973]

i wish we could test it soon, but it needs aprovals and community interest and participation

If you want to test the map out, all you need to do is to write a quick xml for it. Make sure the cords for the large and small map are the same. It can then get tested on the beta site.

[Armandolas]

i wish we could test it soon, but it needs aprovals and community interest and participation

If you want to test the map out, all you need to do is to write a quick xml for it. Make sure the cords for the large and small map are the same. It can then get tested on the beta site.

i wish i could code but im afraid im totally useless at that. I need to find someone who could help me with that.

Anyway, i would like to hear your opinion about the map as an experienced mapmaker.

[koontz1973]

i wish we could test it soon, but it needs aprovals and community interest and participation

If you want to test the map out, all you need to do is to write a quick xml for it. Make sure the cords for the large and small map are the same. It can then get tested on the beta site.

i wish i could code but im afraid im totally useless at that. I need to find someone who could help me with that.

Anyway, i would like to hear your opinion about the map as an experienced mapmaker.

Right now I have no real problem with it. some of the levels may need to be raised or lowered but that will come with testing.

From what I am reading on the map, I need to own two of a kind (resources) to get +1. But you do not have them listed on the map. You have the resources mixed in with the explorers and other things. Are they considered a resource pair?

The winning condition as it is now is worded very badly. I am under the impression that I need to hold both the Spanish and Portuguese sides of the tree (I imagine you only need one or the other). This has come from the economical way you have worded it and used the icons. A clearer way is going to be needed or you will get complaints later.

As for a coder, you are going to need to find someone. I wish I could help but I have no time for my own maps as of late.

[Doc_Brown]

Two things:
1) Would you be open to a refinement of the map name? When I see "World for Two" I immediately think it's a two-player map. What do you think about something like "Age of Discoveries: Dividing the World?"
2) I have zero experience writing XML, especially where CC maps are concerned. However, I program in multiple languages, and I've spent some time looking at the XML for existing maps, so I think I have a fairly good handle of how it works. If you don't already have someone else in mind and don't mind bearing with me as I come up the learning curve, I'd like to work with you on this. I've thought about map ideas in the past, and I can conceive of the strategy side and how to implement it, but I'm hopeless when it comes to the graphics!

[dolomite13]

OK so I took a good look at this and I have a few things that I would like to point out and a few questions.

1. label everything in a way that you know what it is by looking at it if possible. For instance the pope should be labeled in that top middle box and wont need to be also in the key.

2. The bottom left key should have the icon first and the text left justified. You should separate all symbols that grant the +1 bonus for pairs and put them in their own box. That way you only need to list the "Pair of resources +1" a single time.

3. you mention colony borders but don't explain what that is. I assume its the borders between the 4 or 5 territories in each colony (whatever that is). Are all territories in a colony adjacent? in the case of colonies with 4 are diagonals adjacent?

4. are territories connected by sea rout only connected to the next stop on the sea route or all stops on the route? If only the next stop does it increase if you control the next stop. For instance if you had 3 territories in a row A, B, C and A was adjacent to B bot not C but when you held A and B then A was also adjacent to C. Hope you get my meaning.

5. do the routes for each explorer mean anything? they are called out in the key then never mentioned again. Can I attack any port along an explorers route from any other port on that route?

6. you mention social classes in the upper right area but never define what a social class is anywhere on the map.

7. Are pairs of resources the only bonuses besides the +1 autodeploy on Portugal & Espana or so you also have the standard +1/3 minimum 3 in affect? If that is indeed the case I read the map to then have the following bonuses.

6 gold +3
5 Silver +4
16 Conquistadors +8
16 Priest +8 (maybe rename to Clergy)
2 Cattle +1
2 Cereals +1
15 Ports +7
4 Slaves +2
3 Spices +1
2 Timber +1
2 Sugar +1
2 Cotton +1
2 Silk +1

77 colony territories
9 territories in the key
86 total territories (+28 max bonus)

8. looks like the map has 47 territories available for random starting drop.

- 12 player game (47/12) each player starts with 3 with 11 set to neutral.
- 11 player game (47/11) each player starts with 4 with 3 set to neutral.
- 10 player game (47/10) each player starts with 4 with 7 set to neutral.
- 9 player game (47/9) each player starts with 5 with 2 set to neutral.
- 8 player game (47/8) each player starts with 5 with 7 set to neutral.
- 7 player game (47/7) each player starts with 6 with 5 set to neutral.
- 6 player game (47/6) each player starts with 7 with 5 set to neutral.
- 5 player game (47/5) each player starts with 9 with 2 set to neutral.
- 4 player game (47/4) each player starts with 11 with 3 set to neutral.
- 3 player game (47/3) each player starts with 15 with 2 set to neutral.
- 2 player game (47/3*) each player starts with 15 with 2 set to neutral.

9. I am quite concerned about players initial drop. Their is a possibility of dropping a +8 bonus in a 2 or 3 player game if you had all ports or all conquistadors or even half of each. Perhapse you should choose 3 territories for each of the 12 players and limit the start to one position (3 territories) that way you can limit the starting bonuses.

10. is their any extra bonus for holding an entire colony? And if not... why not?

11. the space between Africa and Australia is a big area of wasted space that could house either theme info or map info.

12. and yes the title is deceiving I too thought it was a map for 2 players.

That's all I have for now

=D13=

[Armandolas]

Right now I have no real problem with it. some of the levels may need to be raised or lowered but that will come with testing.

From what I am reading on the map, I need to own two of a kind (resources) to get +1. But you do not have them listed on the map. You have the resources mixed in with the explorers and other things. Are they considered a resource pair?

The winning condition as it is now is worded very badly. I am under the impression that I need to hold both the Spanish and Portuguese sides of the tree (I imagine you only need one or the other). This has come from the economical way you have worded it and used the icons. A clearer way is going to be needed or you will get complaints later.

As for a coder, you are going to need to find someone. I wish I could help but I have no time for my own maps as of late.

Hi
Explorers, Priests, and countries are not resources as u know. I did struggle with space, but maybe i will need to separate those so it gets easy to understand what are resources and what are social classes. I hoped it was obvious.Guess it isnt.

The whining condition is exactly how you read it, not like u imagine . Glad you had that impression
You must hold portugal and spain and both social classes

Thanks for your comments, they were helpfull

[Armandolas]

Two things:
1) Would you be open to a refinement of the map name? When I see "World for Two" I immediately think it's a two-player map. What do you think about something like "Age of Discoveries: Dividing the World?"
2) I have zero experience writing XML, especially where CC maps are concerned. However, I program in multiple languages, and I've spent some time looking at the XML for existing maps, so I think I have a fairly good handle of how it works. If you don't already have someone else in mind and don't mind bearing with me as I come up the learning curve, I'd like to work with you on this. I've thought about map ideas in the past, and I can conceive of the strategy side and how to implement it, but I'm hopeless when it comes to the graphics!

1-Definitly open for a name change. I guess just age of discoveries is good enough for me. Your suggestion is also good
2-I would definitly be very happy to partner with you. Allways a pleasure and you know that

Thanks for your help Doc.Ill get back to you very soon

[Armandolas]

Click image to enlarge.

[Armandolas]

OK so I took a good look at this and I have a few things that I would like to point out and a few questions.

1. label everything in a way that you know what it is by looking at it if possible. For instance the pope should be labeled in that top middle box and wont need to be also in the key.
Agree. Made a few changes

2. The bottom left key should have the icon first and the text left justified. You should separate all symbols that grant the +1 bonus for pairs and put them in their own box. That way you only need to list the "Pair of resources +1" a single time.
Fixed..tell me thats what u had in mind

3. you mention colony borders but don't explain what that is. I assume its the borders between the 4 or 5 territories in each colony (whatever that is). Are all territories in a colony adjacent? in the case of colonies with 4 are diagonals adjacent?
Yes, colony borders are normal borders, like in most maps.
Every region inside a colony can attack each other

4. are territories connected by sea rout only connected to the next stop on the sea route or all stops on the route? If only the next stop does it increase if you control the next stop. For instance if you had 3 territories in a row A, B, C and A was adjacent to B bot not C but when you held A and B then A was also adjacent to C. Hope you get my meaning.
Ports can only attack adjacent ports connected by sea route(ex:venezuela port cannost attack brazil port)

5. do the routes for each explorer mean anything? they are called out in the key then never mentioned again. Can I attack any port along an explorers route from any other port on that route?
No,u cannot attack only adjecent ports can attack eachother. I removed that legenmd from the map. I wanted to be historical accurate, but i guess u are right. They were only occupying space

6. you mention social classes in the upper right area but never define what a social class is anywhere on the map.
Fixed

7. Are pairs of resources the only bonuses besides the +1 autodeploy on Portugal & Espana or so you also have the standard +1/3 minimum 3 in affect? If that is indeed the case I read the map to then have the following bonuses.
Conquistadores,Priest and ports are not resources. (ive also excluded them from the legend since that info was not necessary)
Ive added another 1 for hoding all social classes inside a reign.
But if u hold 2 pairs of gold you will get +2(you have it right in your legend-total 6 gold =possibily of +3)


6 gold +3
5 Silver +4
16 Conquistadors +8
16 Priest +8 (maybe rename to Clergy)
2 Cattle +1
2 Cereals +1
15 Ports +7
4 Slaves +2
3 Spices +1
2 Timber +1
2 Sugar +1
2 Cotton +1
2 Silk +1

77 colony territories
9 territories in the key
86 total territories (+28 max bonus)

8. looks like the map has 47 territories available for random starting drop.

- 12 player game (47/12) each player starts with 3 with 11 set to neutral.
- 11 player game (47/11) each player starts with 4 with 3 set to neutral.
- 10 player game (47/10) each player starts with 4 with 7 set to neutral.
- 9 player game (47/9) each player starts with 5 with 2 set to neutral.
- 8 player game (47/8) each player starts with 5 with 7 set to neutral.
- 7 player game (47/7) each player starts with 6 with 5 set to neutral.
- 6 player game (47/6) each player starts with 7 with 5 set to neutral.
- 5 player game (47/5) each player starts with 9 with 2 set to neutral.
- 4 player game (47/4) each player starts with 11 with 3 set to neutral.
- 3 player game (47/3) each player starts with 15 with 2 set to neutral.
- 2 player game (47/3*) each player starts with 15 with 2 set to neutral.

9. I am quite concerned about players initial drop. Their is a possibility of dropping a +8 bonus in a 2 or 3 player game if you had all ports or all conquistadors or even half of each. Perhapse you should choose 3 territories for each of the 12 players and limit the start to one position (3 territories) that way you can limit the starting bonuses.
Im totally open for those kind of discussions and 120% to hear those /thougts/suggestions from you, but please remember that only resources count for bonus

10. is their any extra bonus for holding an entire colony? And if not... why not?
No bonus.Open to discussion

11. the space between Africa and Australia is a big area of wasted space that could house either theme info or map info.
I dont want to fill the map too much, but im saving that for something that i might need in the future

12. and yes the title is deceiving I too thought it was a map for 2 players.
Im thinking in make it simple. "Age of Discoveries" only

That's all I have for now

=D13=

[Kabanellas]

Hi Armandolas!! Looking good

Just feeling that those 15 neutral on the Pope, might be a bit too much. For a more dynamic and fluid game I'd reduce them.

Also, the port in Peru, shouldn't it connect to Chile and the Philippines?
And about sea lines/routes, I know (and understand) your intention of giving a context to all sea routes by connecting them, on map, to Portugal and Spain. I just wish that all those connections (to Europe) had some real use in terms of game-play... (but it's just a personal feeling)

Graphically, I'm not that fond of that bevel on regions... that shininess between Brazil and Rio de la Plata doesn't quite make it for me and doesn't fit the map in terms of style. I think you can do better

[Armandolas]

Hi Armandolas!! Looking good

Just feeling that those 15 neutral on the Pope, might be a bit too much. For a more dynamic and fluid game I'd reduce them.

Also, the port in Peru, shouldn't it connect to Chile and the Philippines?
And about sea lines/routes, I know (and understand) your intention of giving a context to all sea routes by connecting them, on map, to Portugal and Spain. I just wish that all those connections (to Europe) had some real use in terms of game-play... (but it's just a personal feeling)

Graphically, I'm not that fond of that bevel on regions... that shininess between Brazil and Rio de la Plata doesn't quite make it for me and doesn't fit the map in terms of style. I think you can do better

-Do u think 10 neuts in the pope would suits better?
-The port in peru connects to chile and filipinas through the brown route(i should adjust the rout slihgtly to the right to make sure its clear it connects to chile port)
-You think cabo verde and cuba ports should be able to attack portugal and spain, is that it?My opinion is that way those two ports would have too much importance in the game creating big walls there and negleting other parts of the map.
-I personally prefer the bevelive tested before but ill run a couple more testings to see if my opinion stands or not.

Thanks for your comments. As my favourite mapmaker ,i allways find them very usefull and inspirating

[Kabanellas]

Thank you!!!

-Do u think 10 neuts in the pope would suits better?
I believe so.
-The port in peru connects to chile and filipinas through the brown route(i should adjust the rout slihgtly to the right to make sure its clear it connects to chile port)
Yup, that will solve it
-You think cabo verde and cuba ports should be able to attack portugal and spain, is that it?My opinion is that way those two ports would have too much importance in the game creating big walls there and negleting other parts of the map.
No, it's just a formal thing. I know that there's no space for it in terms of game-play
-I personally prefer the bevelive tested before but ill run a couple more testings to see if my opinion stands or not.
Yes, please

[dolomite13]

Who is doing the XML on this?

=D13=

[Armandolas]

Who is doing the XML on this?

=D13=

Im still not sure if Doc will try to have a go on it..so at this point. No one is hadling the XML

[Doc_Brown]

I'm planning to do it. I've been reading up on how it works, and I'll take a first stab at it sometime in the next week.

[Armandolas]

I'm planning to do it. I've been reading up on how it works, and I'll take a first stab at it sometime in the next week.

Sounds good

[sannemanrobinson]

Legend now says:
monarchs attack pope
monarches attacked by social classes

More readible would be:
monarchs attack pope
social classes attack monarches

[Armandolas]

Legend now says:
monarchs attack pope
monarches attacked by social classes

More readible would be:
monarchs attack pope
social classes attack monarches

Fixed

[Armandolas]

A few fixes:
-adjusted sea routes to clearly connect ports
-changed pope neutral value from 15 to 5(no pointing on having such a big killer neutral)
-Slight legend changes
-added a version without bevel

Click image to enlarge.

No Bevel:

Click image to enlarge.

[Kabanellas]

I prefer the 'no bevel' version

..and definitely a better option to reduce those pope killer neutrals

[Doc_Brown]

A couple comments and questions:
1) I don't see names listed anywhere for the territories that attack clergy, nobility, and bourgeoisie. I suggest something like Priests, Conquistadors, and Merchants/Ports/Ships.
2) Is it true that, for example, Priests in red territories attack Spanish clergy but not Portugal Clergy?
3) Does a given ship attack all other ships within the same colored sea route, or just the adjacent ones?
4) From the legend, it appears that someone controlling the 4 Portugal territories only can never attack anything except the pope. Do you intend for the home countries to attack out to either adjacent or all ports along the sea routes?
5) The pope seems very weak to me. Would it be too powerful to allow the pope to attack all priests on the map? That would make it more worthwhile to get to the pope and be able to get to anywhere on the map. It would better represent the Pope's authority to actually divide up the world. Making all those connections would probably require the Pope to reset to 10+ neutrals again though.
6) What are the intended connections for the Spain and Portugal Sovereigns? They're attacked by the social classes, and they can attack the Pope. But that appears to be it. If the Pope can only attack the two sovereigns (plus bombard a few other territories), the Sovereigns are basically dead ends, and the +1 auto isn't worth much.
7) It looks like your intention is to have all resources, social classes, sovereigns, and the Pope start as neutrals, correct? The only starting territories are Priests, Conquistadors, and Ships (using the terms I proposed - let me know what to call them)?
Some of the territory names are tough to read (especially Guinc Bissau and Filipinas).

That's probably enough for now!