[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[Rugbirn]

Like I said before, I'm a dead man either way. If I claim and tell the truth, town may/may not lynch me depending on if they believe me. If they do believe me, scum will NK me for who I am.

[betiko]

Like I said before, I'm a dead man either way. If I claim and tell the truth, town may/may not lynch me depending on if they believe me. If they do believe me, scum will NK me for who I am.

If you are town, mafia could waste their night action on you but you could as well be protected by the busdriver. If you have an important town role and no one counterclaims an important character there is no reason to worry.
If you are telling the truth, then tfo is lying and we will go after him and kill a mafia instead of the town you pretend to be. Then for the night phase there are a few roles that should protect you.

From my understanding, CD wasn t targetted, someone else was, and CD had been bussed with that person. So mafia isn t going for the obvious target.

[TheForgivenOne]

Like I said before, I'm a dead man either way. If I claim and tell the truth, town may/may not lynch me depending on if they believe me. If they do believe me, scum will NK me for who I am.

I'm Sorry, but you have pointed the finger at BOTH IAmCaffeine and I, claiming we were there to kill x-stor-x. You claimed IAC was there to kill him, and now you're claiming I was there to poison him. You seem really desperate to get the light off the fact that you were there.

[Rugbirn]

I said what I said (about being lynch by town) because no one is thinking this through except me. Everyone is just jumping the wagon on me (when there are clearly two possibilites) and if they are this determined to lynch me, it isn't going to matter what I say, they won't believe me anyway.

[gregwolf121]

rugbirn, yes we are sometimes placed in difficult situations, but your refusal to claim and share what information you have isn't helping the town at all. if you are town you would claim now and share your information so that the town as a whole could benefit from it. maybe claiming won't help you personally, but its foo late to wait and hope it will all go away. claiming will help the town, as a whole.
as others have said once you claim we then decide whether we believe you or not, but not claiming just makes me believe that you are scum and are trying to make up a good lie.
as for what you say regarding TFO, it is a possibility but he had no reason to say anything yesterday, also we have TFO's story if you want your case against him to be taken seriously then you need to claim so that we can evaluate both sides.

fastposted x3

[Rugbirn]

Well, TFO you are right. At the time I did believe you, and your "watcher" role. And after CD fingered IAC as mafia, I went off on him. But now that IAC has been verified as Mafia watcher, I know I didn't poison him, so that only leaves you. By the way, why do you think a mafia scum would vote for me, and not you?

[Rugbirn]

Gregwolf,
Fair enough I agree, just waiting on one bit of info before I claim.

[betiko]

I am done arguing with rugbirn. Whatever he is I m up to lynch him, if he s town (almost no chance) he s a lost cause anyway and won t be of any help, it s impossible to have a logical and reasoned discussion here. This is like threatening your kid to ground him, and you don t do anything when he keeps on testing you. Good way to lose all credibility if you don t act.

Fp x3

[Rugbirn]

TFO, just to remind everyone, I was the first (way before you) to verify that I visited XStor after IAC fingered both of us. However, I did not rush to explain why I was there, when nobody asked me. All I said was that XStor was alive D2. Now that we know he was poisoned, and assuming that the poisoning took effect N+1, that only leaves you and me as the poisoner.

[MoB Deadly]

Just curious Rugbirn..... What if we play by your rules and decide to totally flip it on TFO? Now there is a precedence that you dont have to claim at L-2. TFO will just "make a scene" like you are doing and refuse to claim.

[TheForgivenOne]

TFO, just to remind everyone, I was the first (way before you) to verify that I visited XStor after IAC fingered both of us. However, I did not rush to explain why I was there, when nobody asked me. All I said was that XStor was alive D2. Now that we know he was poisoned, and assuming that the poisoning took effect N+1, that only leaves you and me as the poisoner.

You also have to realize I had already mentioned prior that I had a random night action that had results, and I didn't have reason to post them (This was before IAC claimed). When I saw IAC was getting pressured, I was hoping to catch him in a lie. I simply posted my result to further prove his claim.

How about we switch the roles around for a moment. Say I was in your shoes, you're in mine. I'm refusing to claim even though everybody is pressuring me. Would you view that as scummy right now?

FP by MoB

[Rodion]

No need to lose your cool and say you'll lynch him regardless of whether you believe his role or not. Give him the day he asked to claim and consider that as an aggravating factor when determining whether he is speaking the truth or not. We have plenty of time anyway.

By the way, I feel unconfortable assuming we have a "poisoner" role that kills on the following night. From flavour, I think Gus' mafia killed CD (they were bitter over their recent loss and the Cartel didn't have a recent loss at that time), which means Stor was killed/poisoned by the Cartel. Why would one mafia get an instant kill and the other get a delayed one? Or do we believe that a mafia faction has a delayed kill on top of their regular one? Personally, I think Strike mentions poison just for flavour, but that is not indicative of a role. The reason I endorse the Rugbirn wagon is his softclaim of protective and consequent death of CD, which is indicative he lied about being a protective role (or refused to protect the claimed doc or spoke irrationally and had his words mistaken for a softclaim). It's basically the same reason I'd be pressuring MoB had he claimed to have been given a watcher role.

[Rugbirn]

O.K. everyone I got my info. So, before Betty has a hernia, here is my truthful claim - remember only the truth will set you free !

I am Saul the lawyer. I provide NK protection on anyone I chose. N1, I chooseto protect XStor, (which is why IAC saw me).

I hinted at it after N1 when on pg 34 I said: " I'm surprised that X-stor didn't get wacked N1 based on all his actions - so I think that there is also some 3rd party town protection. Thinking as mafia, I'd want X-stor eliminated ASAP so that the game wouldn't have a focal point, and be more in chaos."

So, I was there N1 protecting XStor from a NK, however, I guess my role does not prevent poisoning.

N2, I was protecting CD from the same (NK), and no, I didn't need Rodion to tell me to. So, obviously Rodion was right about my role (don't bow too low, as you may hurt your back Rodion). I'm now ready to answer any questions you may have.

[betiko]

No need to lose your cool and say you'll lynch him regardless of whether you believe his role or not. Give him the day he asked to claim and consider that as an aggravating factor when determining whether he is speaking the truth or not. We have plenty of time anyway.

By the way, I feel unconfortable assuming we have a "poisoner" role that kills on the following night. From flavour, I think Gus' mafia killed CD (they were bitter over their recent loss and the Cartel didn't have a recent loss at that time), which means Stor was killed/poisoned by the Cartel. Why would one mafia get an instant kill and the other get a delayed one? Or do we believe that a mafia faction has a delayed kill on top of their regular one? Personally, I think Strike mentions poison just for flavour, but that is not indicative of a role. The reason I endorse the Rugbirn wagon is his softclaim of protective and consequent death of CD, which is indicative he lied about being a protective role (or refused to protect the claimed doc or spoke irrationally and had his words mistaken for a softclaim). It's basically the same reason I'd be pressuring MoB had he claimed to have been given a watcher role.

i'd rather set a precedent on the cc mafia forum to show that players that refuse to claim no matter the pressure get lynched no matter what rather than the opposite.

regarding your read: as I said I don't think hank was targeted. he was bussed with player A and player A got night targetedand got killed as a result, that's how I read it.

Also, for me there is just Gus left in the red mafia faction. 4 red+ the maroon faction.... that sounds like too much to deal with

fp

[betiko]

O.K. everyone I got my info. So, before Betty has a hernia, here is my truthful claim - remember only the truth will set you free !

I am Saul the lawyer. I provide NK protection on anyone I chose. N1, I chooseto protect XStor, (which is why IAC saw me).

I hinted at it after N1 when on pg 34 I said: " I'm surprised that X-stor didn't get wacked N1 based on all his actions - so I think that there is also some 3rd party town protection. Thinking as mafia, I'd want X-stor eliminated ASAP so that the game wouldn't have a focal point, and be more in chaos."

So, I was there N1 protecting XStor from a NK, however, I guess my role does not prevent poisoning.

N2, I was protecting CD from the same (NK), and no, I didn't need Rodion to tell me to. So, obviously Rodion was right about my role (don't bow too low, as you may hurt your back Rodion). I'm now ready to answer any questions you may have.

ok thank you!!! what a nightmare to pull your teeth out..

so right now, if no one counterclaims saul I will fully believe you. I will also assume that rodion is right and we might have tried to read too far into flavour. I think that gus might have performed the xstor kill; and that strike used flavour from the show for the way he killed, but wasn't hinting a mafia game power directly...
and yeah, so basically the guy who bussed CD killed him. I think it is very possible that this was done by the cartel. if there is a cartel bus driver, they might have bussed hank+ targeted the guy they bussed him with to secure the kill.

[Rugbirn]

After all this, I claim and everyone is speachless ???

[Rugbirn]

Not so fast Betty. Why couldn't TFO be the poisoner?

[betiko]

Not so fast Betty. Why couldn't TFO be the poisoner?

because from what you said you protected xstor. both of you guys can't be liars in a same scenario me thinks, it's either one or none.

[Rugbirn]

I said that my power is to prevent night kills (not poisonings). If XStor was killed due to N+1 poisoning, my protection didn't do him any good. Correct?

[MoB Deadly]

Ummmm... f*ck... I am actually going to completely blatantly flip-flop here.

I believe Rugbirn. And I think TFO is town. I fucked up. And I read too much into the flavor.... I apologize Rugbirn

[Rugbirn]

@ MoB, No problem, I probably would have done the same (actually I did in Anark's case) in your shoes.

[Metsfanmax]

so right now, if no one counterclaims saul I will fully believe you. I will also assume that rodion is right and we might have tried to read too far into flavour. I think that gus might have performed the xstor kill; and that strike used flavour from the show for the way he killed, but wasn't hinting a mafia game power directly.

No, that's unjustified. He can be telling the truth about his character name and lying about his alignment and role. He can still be the poisoner (it fits with the flavor, roughly).

[betiko]

I said that my power is to prevent night kills (not poisonings). If XStor was killed due to N+1 poisoning, my protection didn't do him any good. Correct?

if your protection doesn't prevent from poisoning in a game with a poisoner, then your role is extremely lame. I might be wrong... but can you please ask strike? I guess that's what you already did, I think he would answer it privately but not publicly. you protect from kills if you are who you say you are, and a poisoning is a kill attempt... I don't know, would be interested to have other people's opinions on this.

fp 3 times 4

[betiko]

so right now, if no one counterclaims saul I will fully believe you. I will also assume that rodion is right and we might have tried to read too far into flavour. I think that gus might have performed the xstor kill; and that strike used flavour from the show for the way he killed, but wasn't hinting a mafia game power directly.

No, that's unjustified. He can be telling the truth about his character name and lying about his alignment and role. He can still be the poisoner (it fits with the flavor, roughly).

no way saul is of an evil alignment. you know the show right?

[MoB Deadly]

This is what happens when we play too quickly and make quick decisions without fully thinking. If we slowed down and let Rodion post earlier that we were overthinking things, we may not have generated suck a quick wagon on Rugbirn. I am going to hang this up for tonight and revisit the thread tomorrow.

As of right now I like Gregwolf

Does anyone know off the top of their head if Jonty said if there were any effects to him getting methed?
I find it "odd" that jonty has this PR but no other effects, where I was given meth and gained an action but lost my vote.
scumdar has me thinking, self-imposed PR possibly?

fastposted x2