[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[betiko]

Yeah this has died pretty much. Looks like people are happy with just lynching a third party protective role rather than getting rid of mafia/cartel members.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm fine with pressuring Greg. I don't think there's a strong case against him, but I agree that he's been fairly noncommittal the whole game.

[jonty125]

Yeah this has died pretty much. Looks like people are happy with just lynching a third party protective role rather than getting rid of mafia/cartel members.

I had a similar thought on the bus this morning, well I asked myself the question we have a 3rd party claim on the table, do we remove it, now, or push gregwolf, and see what pops up, and in my opinion, I say we don't push greg today, but tomorrow, because, if we have him claim today, and he's a PR, we're pretty screwed without a doc & we also have no cop, so I wouldn't want to risk the life of another PR, but if the wagon gets stuck @ L-3, then I'm willing to vote to make L-2, because I have mentioned before, greg's play has been weak at best.

[betiko]

well maybe you have a better case. but I'm pretty convinced that rug is actually telling the truth and that he would cooperate with town, I see no reason he would not. Given that the town doc is dead; a cooperative third party doc is an asset for town; also if he tells the truth he cannot protect scums.
Flavourwise, his character has to be there, and it would make absolutely no sense if he was cartel/mafia.
There is probably still 2 cartel and 1 mafia out of this list:

1. Virus90: no claim
3. Rishaed: no claim
5. Betiko: no claim
6. Mob Deadly: town bus driver
8. Jonty125: no claim
11.Metsfanmax: no claim
12. Rodion: no claim
13. Theforgivenone: no claim
14. Rugbirn: saul, third party "lawyer"; protects town; frames investigations on scum and unknown results on other alignments
15. Gregwolf121: no claim
17. Iron Butterfly: no claim

please help me put the ball forward, this thread has died all of a sudden. I am convinced that we need at least 1 alternative. too many night kills each time.

[jonty125]

well maybe you have a better case. but I'm pretty convinced that rug is actually telling the truth

I'm convinced rug is truthing but I've already said why I can't see Rug been able to use his protect ability, turning him into a survivor, who should be lynched.

[Rugbirn]

Fellas, we are actiiong like we haven't learned anything since D1. We know that we have mafia, cartel, DEA, and 3rd Party at least. And like someone said based on 3 mafia, 3 cartel, and 3 of a mix (DEA, 3rd Party, & maybe Vig ??). That leaves 9 original town. Now these numbers are NOT fact, but I think we all feel at this point that they are close. Let's re-cap the last two days' action:

D1 - we lynch Anark (VT)
N1 - pPCM gets wacked playing Lydia (Mafia goon), ALSO, Neb gets wacked playing the town Doc (Skyler) - 2 hight kills

D2 - we lynch IAC playing (mafia watcher - watching XStor on N1)
N2 - Rug & MoB both try to protect CD playing Hank (cop) and it somewhat backfires. Rug protects Hank, MoB busses Hank with Super. Rugs protection does not extend to Super (cause he is cartel). Someone targets CD, Super gets wacked. Someone targets Super and CD get wacked. But in addition, we lose XStor playing Walt Jr. as town tracker. 3 night kills.

Now, we have 2 NKs on N1; and 3 NKs on N2 Initially many think there is a poisoner with N+1 action, i.e. he poisoned Xstor N1 and he died the next night. I'm not buying it for tow reason. I protected XStor N1, and I beleive that a mafia poisoner would upset the balance of the game and give mafia/cartel too much power. So my question to you is why wasn't there a thid kill N1. I maintain that I prevented XStor fro a N1 kill and that TFO was there to do it. Any holes in this theory?

[Rugbirn]

well maybe you have a better case. but I'm pretty convinced that rug is actually telling the truth

I'm convinced rug is truthing but I've already said why I can't see Rug been able to use his protect ability, turning him into a survivor, who should be lynched.

Jonty, not necessarily true. If MoB and I play the scickeroo, N3 and threaten to do it going forward, they may not target me every night, and I can protect somone else. Especially, if the switcheroo works and they kill themselves just one time. Remember to a hign degree of certainty, there are only 3 left. If they wack one of their own targeting me, they will not try it again.

[rishaed]

Yeah this has died pretty much. Looks like people are happy with just lynching a third party protective role rather than getting rid of mafia/cartel members.

I had a similar thought on the bus this morning, well I asked myself the question we have a 3rd party claim on the table, do we remove it, now, or push gregwolf, and see what pops up, and in my opinion, I say we don't push greg today, but tomorrow, because, if we have him claim today, and he's a PR, we're pretty screwed without a doc & we also have no cop, so I wouldn't want to risk the life of another PR, but if the wagon gets stuck @ L-3, then I'm willing to vote to make L-2, because I have mentioned before, greg's play has been weak at best.

This however IMO is also beneficial to mafia? I know the Busdriver claimed, and is highly believable, b/c who would switch their GF with the town cop, but its essentially saying lynch the third party (which I am amiable to, but feel that there is better options this early in the day). I agree the case on greg is weak, but still its something to revive the day from the inactivity that is occurring right now. vote Gregwolf

[betiko]

IB hasn t posted in 2/3 days since I FOSed him questioning his strategy that sounds pretty scummy to me. He has posted in other mafia threads every day and is avoiding this one. Winning time so we end up lynching rug?

Also where is rodion? He has desapeared completely.

[MoB Deadly]

*disclaimer* I have been sick and have not been able to keep up with the thread.

More than once I have seen scummarining used to win games in mafia in this forum. Continue to pressure!
I dont have vote otherwise I would

[betiko]

*disclaimer* I have been sick and have not been able to keep up with the thread.

More than once I have seen scummarining used to win games in mafia in this forum. Continue to pressure!
I dont have vote otherwise I would

I have been sick all week and I still am, which made me go on this thread more often actually

So even if you can t vote mob, it doesn t mean you can t give your opinion.
What do you want to do with rug?

Who would you pressure in priority if you had the ability to vote?
You are pretty much a confirmed town mob. I expect more from you even if you can t vote today.

[Iron Butterfly]

IB hasn t posted in 2/3 days since I FOSed him questioning his strategy that sounds pretty scummy to me. He has posted in other mafia threads every day and is avoiding this one. Winning time so we end up lynching rug?

Also where is rodion? He has desapeared completely.

My strategy is scummy simply because I disagree with you. To me there a three focal points. Rugbirn, TFO and Gregwolf.

I find it interesting how Rugbirn has become more lucid as the game progresses. Again not to beat a dead horse but his play has been that, its obvious he does not know how roles fully work and game mechanics operate yet that has not stopped him from putting forth his ideas as fact.

I have however been open to hearing what he says now and some of it does make sense BUT I am again leery of the role. How can you frame someone that is already mafia unless it is THE Godfather, which is like hitting the lottery and moot at this point.
His claim evolved the more people questioned it until it arrived at what it is now. I may be wrong but the lawyer aspect of the role only became so AFTER it was suggested that that was what a lawyer does.

So forgive me if I am not welcoming him with open arms.

Unvote

I find him highly scummy and make no bones about it. However gregwold and TFO are good places as well.

[Metsfanmax]

Suppose we let Rugbirn live. How should he use his night action?

[virus90]

Suppose we let Rugbirn live. How should he use his night action?

sure lets discuss that, then a potential roleblocker would have a field day, and the maffia would know what to do.
Fos mets

[Metsfanmax]

Suppose we let Rugbirn live. How should he use his night action?

sure lets discuss that, then a potential roleblocker would have a field day, and the maffia would know what to do.
Fos mets

I don't think we have a choice. If I was Rugbirn, there'd be no reason to actually be loyal to the town at this point. We have no way to verify his results if we don't know what he's doing, So he can be protected by the bus driver while not actually doing anything helpful for us. And yes, we could tell him what to do and he could be roleblocked, but he could just lie and say he was roleblocked anyway if the person he protects ends up dying.

[strike wolf]

Official Vote Count

Rishaed
Gregwolf121 (1)-Betiko
Theforgivenone (2)-Rugbirn, Rishaed
mob deadly
betiko
metsfanmax
rodion
virus90
iron butterfly
Rugbirn (1)-Rodion
Jonty125

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline will be next Friday, around this time.

Rodion has been prodded.

[betiko]

Official Vote Count

Rishaed
Gregwolf121 (1)-Betiko
Theforgivenone (2)-Rugbirn, Rishaed
mob deadly
betiko
metsfanmax
rodion
virus90
iron butterfly
Rugbirn (1)-Rodion
Jonty125

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline will be next Friday, around this time.

Rodion has been prodded.

Isn t rishaed on gregwolf?


@ mets: if rug is who he says he is, why would he not collaborate with town? He wants to survive and can t protect himself. I see no problem with him protecting mob each night and mob busing rug with?? (Wifom)

[Rugbirn]

Mets, what do you mean you won't know what I'M doing? I've told you everything I have done in this game and will continue to do so -what do I have to lose. Question is what have you been doing ??? As far as I know, no one has claimed to have had his night action blocked. So, until we know that role-blocking is in play, we move forward. There is plenty we DON'T know, but we must move forward on what we DO know.

[Metsfanmax]

Official Vote Count

Rishaed
Gregwolf121 (1)-Betiko
Theforgivenone (2)-Rugbirn, Rishaed
mob deadly
betiko
metsfanmax
rodion
virus90
iron butterfly
Rugbirn (1)-Rodion
Jonty125

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline will be next Friday, around this time.

Rodion has been prodded.

Isn t rishaed on gregwolf?


@ mets: if rug is who he says he is, why would he not collaborate with town? He wants to survive and can t protect himself. I see no problem with him protecting mob each night and mob busing rug with?? (Wifom)

My point is that he would certainly say he was going to collaborate with town, to avoid getting lynched; but we have no guarantee that he'll actually do what we want. To play out the WIFOM, no one will attack rug or MoB in this scenario, so we don't know whether either of them are telling the truth (or whether they're both buddies).

[Metsfanmax]

I don't have a clear idea formed yet, I'm just still really suspicious of Rugbirn. Up before his full claim, he was playing like a total noob. Then, in the post where he claimed, it's like a light switched turned on, and he made some pretty insightful remarks. Almost like he's getting help...

[TheForgivenOne]

Fellas, we are actiiong like we haven't learned anything since D1. We know that we have mafia, cartel, DEA, and 3rd Party at least. And like someone said based on 3 mafia, 3 cartel, and 3 of a mix (DEA, 3rd Party, & maybe Vig ??). That leaves 9 original town. Now these numbers are NOT fact, but I think we all feel at this point that they are close. Let's re-cap the last two days' action:

D1 - we lynch Anark (VT)
N1 - pPCM gets wacked playing Lydia (Mafia goon), ALSO, Neb gets wacked playing the town Doc (Skyler) - 2 hight kills

D2 - we lynch IAC playing (mafia watcher - watching XStor on N1)
N2 - Rug & MoB both try to protect CD playing Hank (cop) and it somewhat backfires. Rug protects Hank, MoB busses Hank with Super. Rugs protection does not extend to Super (cause he is cartel). Someone targets CD, Super gets wacked. Someone targets Super and CD get wacked. But in addition, we lose XStor playing Walt Jr. as town tracker. 3 night kills.

Now, we have 2 NKs on N1; and 3 NKs on N2 Initially many think there is a poisoner with N+1 action, i.e. he poisoned Xstor N1 and he died the next night. I'm not buying it for tow reason. I protected XStor N1, and I beleive that a mafia poisoner would upset the balance of the game and give mafia/cartel too much power. So my question to you is why wasn't there a thid kill N1. I maintain that I prevented XStor fro a N1 kill and that TFO was there to do it. Any holes in this theory?

Have you also considered that wherever this third kill came from, on n1, may have targeted a player that was already targeted by a night kill? You are so sure that someone tried to kill x-stor-x n1. You basically said you were 100% sure that IAC tried to kill him n1, now you're saying you're 100% that I killed him n2.

I'll repeat myself (again). Before any of the details went down with IAC, I had explained I had received a night action, but the info I had received wasn't useful. Why wasn't it? I saw 2 people visit someone that was alive. I kept said info to myself, hoping later on in the game either you or IAC would have to claim and would end up lying. Do you think I would simply bring forward this information, that I had received an action during the night, if I was mafia? Don't you think it would be an easier case for me to simply claim I had lost my vote?

When IAC claimed to be Watcher on stor, I had simply brought forward the Watcher report I received during the night, because it was simply useless information now. Everyone knew who had visited Stor, so I was simply using my information at the time to prove IAC's claim (since I had a hard time believing at the time that a Watcher could be mafia, as I never seen one before).

Also notice, I never once put my vote on you today (d2), even though we basically had to beat your claim out of you. Don't you think a mafia would WANT a protection role out of the game? When MoB had put out the fact that you basically hadn't given us all the information on your Lawyer role, THEN did I consider voting you.

I have been 100% truthful on what I have said.

FP, Also, regarding the Roleblocker scenario, Rugbirn, why would someone willingly out they had been Roleblocked? Suddenly the roleblocker knows they have a night action (that is probably useful), and continue to be on them. With both watchers out of the game, we'd have no way of knowing who's actually blocking said person. (Unless we have a 3rd watcher, which I highly doubt, or someone earns a watch from the meth giver, which isn't always the effect).

[Rugbirn]

@ Mets - And who would I be getting help from Mets ??? I can only talk here, and if I was mafia, from what you all are saying, I would only be able to talk to them on N3. The case on me followed N2 after Hank got killed (i.e. D3). So here we are...do you want to be productive and comment on other cases?

@TFO - All good points, and from your posts I do want to believe you. I just have a problem with you coming out last to verify IAC's watch results, and announcing why you used your action on XStor , even though nobody asked you. Also, because there has been two people that have had their votes revoked (in return for night action), I'm think that a one time action would have as good a chance as anyones action to be role-blocked, and maybe we would hear about it. Reporting this really wouldn't be revealing anything.

[Rodion]

Prod received.

Has anyone ever played any Ace Attorney (Phoenix Wright) games. Rugbirn's claim seemed just like you trying to correct a testimony's flaw only so the judge would allow them a chance to adapt their testimony (and this happens roughly 2-4 times per witness).

I'm a firm believer that when pressured you only have one chance to claim and Rugbirn kept changing his claim. He explained Keener's death by saying he didn't protect mafia and innocented them instead, which was after I mentioned how a lawyer works. The SK win condition that changed to survivor is also troublesome (why would anyone confuse "stay alive until the end of the game" with "be the last man standing"?)

I personally think Rugbirn didn't think things through when he accused Caffeine. Then, when he had to claim, he decided he couldn't go with anything other than protective (because I said he had already softclaimed protective) and said he protected CD. Then MoB revealed the swap and said Keener should be dead. It was only then that he suddenly "couldn't protect mafia" and innocented them instead. Occam's Razor suggests that he is making stuff up as he goes instead of being an extremely unlucky survivor that had his initial omission be interpreted as a lie.

I don't buy Rugbirn's claim for a second and my vote will stay there.

If the majority wishes to check someone else, though, I suppose Greg is not a bad choice.

[Rodion]

Has anyone ever played any Ace Attorney (Phoenix Wright) games?

EBWOP

[Metsfanmax]

@ Mets - And who would I be getting help from Mets ??? I can only talk here, and if I was mafia, from what you all are saying, I would only be able to talk to them on N3. The case on me followed N2 after Hank got killed (i.e. D3). So here we are...do you want to be productive and comment on other cases?

I don't know. Maybe you are a mason with someone like Huell. There's lots of possibilities, and I could speculate all you want, but the point is that I don't believe you're telling the truth (or at least the whole truth). So unless someone gets a compelling case going (against greg, say) then I'm going to place my vote back onto you before the end of the day.