MC's Tenacious Tiddlywinks (CC Olympics) [josko.ri WINS]

[iAmCaffeine]

I haven't received any invites..

[mcshanester29]

I haven't received any invites..

You were 1 win from heading to the final mate only the top 2 from each group.

[iAmCaffeine]

I haven't received any invites..

You were 1 win from heading to the final mate only the top 2 from each group.

My bad, I always miss something when reading through these things.

[TheFlashPoint]

Did I miss my invites?

[josko.ri]

Did I miss my invites?

you and nicestash have missed invites. He seems to be absent now, I saw sitters are covering for him in other games.

I hope you will respect 12 hour courtesy rule

[TheFlashPoint]

I hope I can get another round of invites.

I do not recognize any unofficial rules, mostly because of the inconvenience.

[josko.ri]

I hope I can get another round of invites.

I do not recognize any unofficial rules, mostly because of the inconvenience.

There is no official rule to respect 12 hour courtesy.

However, because of the fact that you did not accept your invites within the allocated 24 hours, now you are privileged that every your game will be started with you having first look at the map.

If you do not respect 12 hour courtesy rule, then players who joined within the 24 hours time will be "punished" for their joining on time, while you who missed the invite will be privileged to have the first look at every map.

[iAmCaffeine]

I hope I can get another round of invites.

I do not recognize any unofficial rules, mostly because of the inconvenience.

There is no official rule to respect 12 hour courtesy.

However, because of the fact that you did not accept your invites within the allocated 24 hours, now you are privileged that every your game will be started with you having first look at the map.

If you do not respect 12 hour courtesy rule, then players who joined within the 24 hours time will be "punished" for their joining on time, while you who missed the invite will be privileged to have the first look at every map.

You're always online anyway.

[stealth99]

I hope I can get another round of invites.

I do not recognize any unofficial rules, mostly because of the inconvenience.

I am sorry but I am not buying what you are selling TheFlashPoint!! I took a pass on replying to you when you politely and respectfully made your position clear to me by pm a couple of days ago, while replying to one of my pm's. But dude, you have caused a lot of problems. You have chosen to exploit the lack of missed turn rule for the purpose of trying to gain an EXTRA advantage above and beyond the advantage one receives when taking the first turn.f It's an advantage above and beyond the advantage that we come to expect from playing in tourneys with no 12 hour rule.

It is not the 12 hour rule you are violating, it's your failure to accept your invites on time, making it clear along that way that you will not cooperate with reasonable efforts to have these games started and moving along, even when you know the only other outcome is for you to let your invites expire. After those invites expire, claims to me by pm and in the tourney thread, that you intend to continue the same practice despite the fact that you now know that your violation has come with a huge reward of no sanctions and a mega opportunity to nail all of your opponents in games where you go first.

Your claim is that this is really just a position of convenience? .......AND then you sweetly ask for more invites. Good Lord!!! Make me Puke!!! I notice your failure to mention that you were notified about these invites prior to them expiring through a pm by me and that you replied to said pm by saying you would not cooperate.... in so many words, meaning you had to let them expire.

I don't think your convenience comes from being a vulture in the 12 hour rule thing as you claim. I think it comes from the fact that you can ignore Game Invite Deadlines and simply go to bed and let them expire thru the night, while those of us following the rules will either accept them before we go to bed and take our chances (out of full respect for the 12 hour rule and the T.O.) OR we will stay up until the thing expires (out of full respect for the 12 hour rule and the T.O.) OR we will set an alarm to wake just prior to the invites expiring (again, out of full respect for the 12 hour rule and the fact that the T.O. has more to do than re-issue invites to players missing them for abusive reasons).

My general belief is that when I am willing to do all of those things (because I have to in order to to remain competitive in a tourney where the T.O. prefers to NOT go with the 12 hour rule), then I am offering my T.O. the utmost respect and I believe that it is then incumbent on that T.O. to reciprocate by ensuring he never sends an invite to a player who has missed an invite when that players opponent has already joined the game; without first taking some kind of appropriate action to protect the non-offending player.

I am not asking that forfeits to be imposed or anything remotely close to that, but there still has to be a missed turn resolution.. I'm not the one seeking advantage in this tourney, but I am asking that the inconvenience imposed on me of having to set my alarm clock yet again, in order for me to remain competitive in your tourney, to remain competitive in this tourney. It's getting to be a bit much. All I am asking is that the 6 players who accepted their invites prior to expiry, not be made sitting ducks for these players who missed invites. May I suggest simply that you offer the offending players an opportunity to continue playing in the tourney, providing they do not prevent their opponents from getting snaps. I"d even go with a 23 hour rule for one of these offenders but I'll settle for the standard 12.

As for the other player who may have missed his invites for a very good reason, certainly no judgements made about him on my part in this thread. I do believe that the same thing has to apply though, the players who accepted the invites originally cannot and must not be put in a position by the tourney T.O. where they are a sitting duck to be taken advantage of regarding the 12 hour rule because of a missed invite. Otherwise, you are aiding and abetting that player in strategically gaining an advantage through improper means. Improper = missing the invite accidentally or on purpose or with good reason.

FYI, as of this minute, there are 4 hours and 27 minutes left and neither of my opponents has accepted their invites yet. I will have to accept mine at the 4 hour mark and that won't cut it here.

[Ffraid]

Okay, well, now I have to apologize to my opponents.

I am not a frequent tournament player and, in fact, before these CC Olympics had never played fog before, but I did not know anything about a 12 hour courtesy rule.

I know that when I accepted my invites, if it was then my turn, I took it. I always try to take my turns as soon as I can in order to keep things moving along. I do remember that there were a couple of people who joined the games but didn't take their turns right away and I did not know why they wouldn't have. I guess I figured that they were just too busy and had too many games going on to take all of their turns at once and the newly joined games would have been at the bottom of their list.

Now I understand and am sorry if I was rude and pissed anybody off.

[TheFlashPoint]

Okay, well, now I have to apologize to my opponents.

I am not a frequent tournament player and, in fact, before these CC Olympics had never played fog before, but I did not know anything about a 12 hour courtesy rule.

I know that when I accepted my invites, if it was then my turn, I took it. I always try to take my turns as soon as I can in order to keep things moving along. I do remember that there were a couple of people who joined the games but didn't take their turns right away and I did not know why they wouldn't have. I guess I figured that they were just too busy and had too many games going on to take all of their turns at once and the newly joined games would have been at the bottom of their list.

Now I understand and am sorry if I was rude and pissed anybody off.

You are not being rude Ffraid. CC has the ability to implement delays (and does so for Freestyle games). They do not for games that are simply fogged.

I rarely have time to log on every 12 hours and I certainly dont have time to record and study the board after each and every round. Because of this I take my moves when I can so that I dont miss my chance.

From what I can gather, those who use add-on scripts and the like are used to gaining as great an advantage as possible through diligent study (and digital assistance). The information loss from not seeing and recording the board on move one might seem like a big deal to them. It is my opinion that it is not as great a disadvantage as moving second.

Furthermore, it is my opinion that stealth and those who advertise a 12 hour "rule" are acting presumptuously. CC has resources in place to seek rules changes. Seeking a gentlemen's agreement after the fact shows admirable initiative but betrays a lost argument.

FWIW, stealth's haranguing led me to add to my notation workload by notifying my opponents of my moves.

This is the last time I will spend my time on this topic as it relates to this tournament.

[stealth99]

Okay, well, now I have to apologize to my opponents.

I am not a frequent tournament player and, in fact, before these CC Olympics had never played fog before, but I did not know anything about a 12 hour courtesy rule.

I know that when I accepted my invites, if it was then my turn, I took it. I always try to take my turns as soon as I can in order to keep things moving along. I do remember that there were a couple of people who joined the games but didn't take their turns right away and I did not know why they wouldn't have. I guess I figured that they were just too busy and had too many games going on to take all of their turns at once and the newly joined games would have been at the bottom of their list.

Now I understand and am sorry if I was rude and pissed anybody off.

Ffraid, you owe no one an apology. Many are misinterpreting the issue before us as a debate over the 12 hour rule but nothing could be further from the truth. This is not about the 12 hour rule! The only rule that was broken here has to do with accepting your invites by the deadline when you join a tourney. My complaint is about having to do all my planning and make all of my effort to try and compete in these games, long before I even see the map. This tourney does not have a 12 hour rule so you did not owe anything to anyone.

Most competitive players are very much aware that new players are joining the frey all the time. Furthermore, if you are doing something wrong in your games, you will find out about it right in your game chat. Then when you discover this "courtesy" for the first time, you have to make a decision.

All of the crap above is due to the fact that a completely different rule was broken, for the purpose of taking advantage of the lack of a 12 hour rule. That is not to suggest that the lack of the 12 hour rule is the cause of the problem either. Player abuse is responsible for this fiasco. I believe it could have been prevented by having clearly defined penalties for missed invites stated in the tourney thread for all to see. I have no issue with that small omission though because there are/were still plenty of options available to the T.O. to fairly resolve this matter.

[stealth99]

From what I can gather, those who use add-on scripts and the like are used to gaining as great an advantage as possible through diligent study (and digital assistance).

I totally agree, but I'm not sure how this is relevant?

The information loss from not seeing and recording the board on move one might seem like a big deal to them. It is my opinion that it is not as great a disadvantage as moving second.

I totally agree. The fact that you say this confuses me quit a bit. I wonder if you are aware of what the actual issues are.

The only situation that is being referred to here, is the situation where I go 2nd...........AND...........I don't get the info!!!

Every single time that occurs in this final round (possibly in the entire tourney), YOU are the player going first!!!

Furthermore, it is my opinion that stealth and those who advertise a 12 hour "rule" are acting presumptuously. CC has resources in place to seek rules changes. Seeking a gentlemen's agreement after the fact shows admirable initiative but betrays a lost argument.

I have never advertised a 12 rule and I have no idea what you are talking about. Where would I advertise it too? I do not promote or challenge the 12 hour rule. I don't have a solid position on it, one way or the other. It has no bearing on my decision to join a tourney. It would be more helpful in resolving disputes if you stuck to the issues at hand and dealt with what is in front of us instead of creating stuff like that. While I admire your attempt at poetry, I have to admit I suck at it so please dummy down this stuff for me.

stealth's haranguing led me to add to my notation workload by notifying my opponents of my moves.

ditto, I need you to dummy it down for me. No idea what you are saying. What did you notify and what is a notation workload?

This is the last time I will spend my time on this topic as it relates to this tournament.

We're keeping you up late are we? That is nice, since again one of the issues here is that in order to compete with you, all of us have to use alarm clocks to wake in the middle of the night, twice!!

In case you still don't get it, that was the entire reason for the attempt at cooperation by so many, simple convenience and to avoid wasting time. It seems we at least share similar goals.

I rarely have time to log on every 12 hours and I certainly dont have time to record and study the board after each and every round. Because of this I take my moves when I can so that I dont miss my chance.

TFP I don't know what to say about that comment. If you are speaking sincerely then I am hearing you say you are very busy in your RL to the point that you have little option but to take an immediate turn. That would also mean you accept your invites immediately, wouldn't it? The second time that these games were sent, you accepted your invite with me after nearly 23 hours had elapsed. You have not spoken a single word about why you missed your invites.

When you first replied to my pm and when you spoke earlier in this thread, you came across to me as someone who was trying to convey that he does not respect the 12 hour courtesy and you are not going to offer it, even when offered to you and very proud of it. Now I am hearing you say that all of this occurred simply because of your very busy RL.

TFP being busy and having a restricted way to play this game is NOT a violation of any rule. This site and tourneys are all set up to accommodate that stuff. You just need to show up once a day and you can handle everything. Your practices regarding the 12 hour rule are fine too. But I have been saying that since forever. Perhaps at some time before this tourney is over, someone will notice what the actual issue is here. Quite simply put, if I miss my invite, the result should not be that I gain considerable advantage over my opponent; regardless of the reason for my miss. That's just wrong.

[iAmCaffeine]

I find it ridiculous that people think so highly and arrogantly of themselves that they will try and dictate how a tournament should be run, especially regarding a simple common courtesy, as much of a rule as saying good luck and good game.

[stealth99]

Mr. T.O. How long do we leave that useless game with no opponent?

Or should we expect silence on that matter too, since it appears you have all but abandoned this tourney.

[stealth99]

I find it ridiculous that people think so highly and arrogantly of themselves that they will try and dictate how a tournament should be run, especially regarding a simple common courtesy, as much of a rule as saying good luck and good game.

I find it ridiculous that some people just won't exit a tourney gracefully and continue to hang around long after they have been eliminated. Caff you aren't getting any more invites dude and you aren't getting back in this tourney so go away and hide in a corner somewhere. I realize you have a burning desire to make this about you (speaking of arrogance), but again, you are old history.

On a lighter note, try to be upfront with people when you are continuing personal feuds through back-handed forum comments. You are insulting your audience (joke) to suggest they actually buy into the fact that you are attempting legitimate dialogue. We all know we have to first consider the source, when your name is attacked to a forum comment. How many do you make a day, anyway?

[josko.ri]

As for TheFlashPoint wanting to get an unfair advantage from intentionally missing his invites, I had seen it is coming before he even started his games. I honestly hoped that he will not use advantage of bot letting opponents to see the map. It is shame that some players want to use unfair means (such as intentionally missing invite) to get an advantage.

Did I miss my invites?

you and nicestash have missed invites. He seems to be absent now, I saw sitters are covering for him in other games.

I hope you will respect 12 hour courtesy rule

[josko.ri]

Mr. T.O. How long do we leave that useless game with no opponent?

Or should we expect silence on that matter too, since it appears you have all but abandoned this tourney.

If you look at other games of nicestash, it seems like he left the site or have long vacation. His clan mates are covering for him for a while.

If he does not accept third invite, I suggest replace him in finals with whoever was 3rd placed in his round 1 group.

[mcshanester29]

Mr. T.O. How long do we leave that useless game with no opponent?

Or should we expect silence on that matter too, since it appears you have all but abandoned this tourney.

If you look at other games of nicestash, it seems like he left the site or have long vacation. His clan mates are covering for him for a while.

If he does not accept third invite, I suggest replace him in finals with whoever was 3rd placed in his round 1 group.

Yes stealth this tournament is abandoned.....anyways you are correct josko, TheQuietOne will be taking nicestash's place as he hasn't accepted his invites. Good luck all in the finals!!

[iAmCaffeine]

I find it ridiculous that people think so highly and arrogantly of themselves that they will try and dictate how a tournament should be run, especially regarding a simple common courtesy, as much of a rule as saying good luck and good game.

I find it ridiculous that some people just won't exit a tourney gracefully and continue to hang around long after they have been eliminated. Caff you aren't getting any more invites dude and you aren't getting back in this tourney so go away and hide in a corner somewhere. I realize you have a burning desire to make this about you (speaking of arrogance), but again, you are old history.

On a lighter note, try to be upfront with people when you are continuing personal feuds through back-handed forum comments. You are insulting your audience (joke) to suggest they actually buy into the fact that you are attempting legitimate dialogue. We all know we have to first consider the source, when your name is attacked to a forum comment. How many do you make a day, anyway?

Sorry, what?

I know I'm eliminated from this tournament, I don't have any issues with that and I have no idea why you think I do. Since I get the notifications of comments going on here, and it's an issue not specifically about this tournament, if I have something to add then I will do so. If anything an unbiased view might be useful here.

I also have no personal feuds. I have fallen out with you in the past and with josko, just like I have with many people on this game, but if I think I hold these little spats so dear to my heart then please re-think because I couldn't care less. I was simply giving my point of view. If you want to make it into a personal vendetta then be my guest.

[josko.ri]

Weird, TheQuietOne accepted only the invite versus me. I guess maybe some other his invites expired because for my invite he had used almost 24 hours to accept it.

[stealth99]

I find it ridiculous that people think so highly and arrogantly of themselves that they will try and dictate how a tournament should be run, especially regarding a simple common courtesy, as much of a rule as saying good luck and good game.

I was simply giving my point of view. If you want to make it into a personal vendetta then be my guest.

Yes, the quotes are correct. The same person wrote both.

I was expressing my opinion as well Caff, yet you felt the need to challenge it and make a personal attack with the back-handed shot above. You choose to attack the opinion I shared by twisting my words and by self-declaring it was something other than what I intended to say. You choose to rephrase my comments for the purpose of making a personal attack.

Now you want immunity from receiving negative comments because; you are "simply giving my point of view"? Really? That's what you are coming back with? If it weren't funny it would be sad.

Why is it that shit disturbers have such a different standard for what they are able to take versus what they constantly dish out? Incoming vs. outgoing are not able to be viewed on the same plane at all by you Caff, are they?

If I must explain, there was no merit in my comments to or about you and I was just taking a playful shot right back at ya because you make it personal every time you speak. It seems I made a bulls-eye.

As to the 2nd statement in the quote above, about making it personal, all I can say is that when I view earlier comments from you (see above), it seems to me that the ship you speak of, has already sailed. When you consistently choose to provoke, all over the site, you should expect people to bark back. Yet for some reason, you actually believe a personal attack is being initiated against you. There is probably a name for that problem of yours Caff. You should check it out.

Try and get out of your own way long enough so you can see a touch of reality my friend. If you continue attacking people with your many forum posts then you can expect to receive a few shots directed squarely back at you. You can also expect that people will soon give very little credence to what you have to say. Most people would expect those outcomes from your behavior, but you seem surprised?

If anything an unbiased view might be useful here.

but if I think I hold these little spats so dear to my heart then please re-think because I couldn't care less.

and

[iAmCaffeine]

If my comments were directly about you then I would have quoted what you said. It's about the entire argument in general, which has been ongoing for a long time, way before you ever voiced your opinion on the matter. Please get a clue before accusing me of making personal attacks.

[stealth99]

Shane I apologize for my earlier outburst. I was feeling quite frustrated. I am still a little frustrated and confused as to why this thing didn't and couldn't get resolved and why questions respectfully sent by pm are being ignored. If there was something I could have done differently to obtain a different result then please enlighten me. I have no desire to be finding myself in these situations.

[mcshanester29]

Shane I apologize for my earlier outburst. I was feeling quite frustrated. I am still a little frustrated and confused as to why this thing didn't and couldn't get resolved and why questions respectfully sent by pm are being ignored. If there was something I could have done differently to obtain a different result then please enlighten me. I have no desire to be finding myself in these situations.

Pm sent mate