Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[Streaker]

Ok, I am going to go through aage's posts from the beginning and quote/comment on anything that looks potentially town or scummy. Going to be really long I assume, so will put it in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

No Lynch

Why don't we wait for tomorrow's cop report, ffs... no point randlynching now

Yeah, this is weird. Tell us about your awesome night action that you're so eager to use.

Slight role fishing? Or could just be joking.

I was gonna post hours ago, but I got distracted and the editor tossed out all my post by logging out, and now Animainiacks has pretty much said everything I wanted to. So add town read on him.


I was gonna say Crasp's reads on Ultra were good, I agree that his post on no lynch is "too scummy" or at least so unbelievably stupid that I actually do not believe it, although I do think that right now he is our best final lynch target.
I was gonna say Nark doesn't seem to feel like talking since he avoids all requests for replies with evading replies about the uselessness of day 1, which is scummy.

I was also gonna explain in great detail why lynching D1 is a huge statistical advantage, and that AoG is relying on his intuition too much. Lynching day 1 provides town with an opportunity to lynch scum, an opportunity they don't get during the night. Tossing away any chance of killing scum is statistically disadvantageous. Secondly, the lynch is secondary on D1, the discussion is far more important and a good analyst will be able to use it to town's advantage. Thirdly, relying on power roles to win the game for town means you assume the game is rigged wit a large advantage for town. It's not.

I think that was it.

Makes town-sounding arguments for lynching day 1. Although it could just be saying the obvious, since a no-lynch was never going to happen anyway.

Long post, sorry.

I think it is a huge mistake to vote someone merely because they were online and read the thread... Maybe he was on a smartphone, which sucks to type on... Maybe he ran out of time. Admittedly, Virus is usually a more active player- i.e., in the past- but there are lots of times I have seen people keep up with the game and yet not post... Storr, what I see is you literally attacking each and every person you can and wait for what the response is... That makes you look scummy, because it makes it look like you are just trying to start bandwagon after bandwagon. If you were truly firm in the beliefs you held, you would not be so quick to give them up...

VOte: Storr

Strange pattern. Storr votes you, you're fine with it. Storr removes the vote, and only then you 'return fire'.
This is a stupid vote, lynching Storr right now would give us the least amount of information imo. Besides, this wagon-changing behaviour is actually pretty much what I expected from him on D1, and he has lived up to that the entire game, switching between suspicion and reads on nearly every player in the game. He doesn't even lead the bandwagons; his only previous vote was on you. And for that, you want to lynch him? Or is this vote just a statement?
Secondly, on bandwagons. The more the merrier. I'd be very happy to know who would be willing to wagon on any player. Lists of players who are down to pressure or lynch others early and/or late provides very useful alignment indicative information. It also doesn't matter if we steer away from any number of wagons before the day is over, because this game basically uses plurality lynch rules:

2. Voting, Lynching, and Ending the Day
a. All votes and unvotes must be in color and I would really prefer bold. If they are not, they will not be tallied.
b. You are not required to unvote before placing a new vote.
c. Lynching requires a majority of the town vote, once the majority has been reached any unvotes will not be counted. The majority is half the player's alive +1.
d. You may vote ‘no lynch’ to end the day without a death.
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

So that argument is bull. I will FoS.

For the record, and this doesn't apply to Nark alone, I really believe people are being a bit too liberal with their lynching vote. Applying pressure can be done easily without voting, as per Storr's entire activity log this day.

unvote forgot my vote was still on Nark. As far as Fake Claims, I tend to believe that town has the right to know if they are being used.

Call me crazy but what good does that do for us let alone scumhunt right now? Seen a couple other posts about this and Im not really getting the point of it.

Virus being AFK doesnt mean anything yet hopefully hell be replaced. Never seen him mis a game start before and hes usually an easy read so I hope he comes back.

Anyone around right now to talk about shit? I dont feel like reading through the massive texts of walls some of you are putting up like are you guys robots are something?

I agree with the sentiment on fake claims, it won't change day 1, all information is welcome but the mod refuses so end of story. Pushing the mod for it after he deliberately dodged the question is weird though, like you're trying to prove you're trying to help the town without running the risk of actually helping the town. So Strike and pcm, slightly scummy behaviour.


Virus post

well im there, dont you worry.
kind of disturbing that mtam thinks im an easy read, makes me doubt if im really that bad a player...
also i disagree with the logic of: "he is online --> so he has definatly read everything and is supposed to write a message" sometimes reading 3 pages and responding is not alligned with the time frame you have in mind at that moment for the game, but maybe thats just me. (also that is exactly the point why i removed that ability in whatsapp, cause people say your online so why dont you respond... so i might decide to do the same here soon, im pretty sure its a tactical adventage for mafia to disable that ability)
and besides i hate day 1, and im usually highly inactive day 1. last game proved why thats better for me (i got caught being scum that game while being active), so i generally dont comment to much day 1 since i am a bit to straight forward for some people and i always get some votes on me for speaking out what i think (or being enthousiastic )

anyway about this game,
Ultra is pointing on a no lynch for arguments i think are valid, although i dont agree. so basicly i dont want to vote ultra.
also i disagree with hotshot reasoning of the day 1 mislynch --> does it provide information about the mafia? in my opinion, it is not that hard for mafia to split votes among several people day 1, generally day 1 a town majority decides to lynch someone, even if they target a mafia player generaly some of the mafia are on that wagon aswell, just to gain town creds, and later be able to say that they lynched that person SO they are town. so in my opinion it is possible that day 1 voting patterns give information, but it is also easily rigged.

Being an easy read doesn't make you a bad player, it's actually very useful if you're town.
I suggest you do switch on ghost mode, I've had it on for as long as I can remember for this exact reason. Being online or not doesn't correlate to alignment imo, and I excuse the votes of Storr and Crasp because I believe they were cast to pressure you into posting.
Day 1 wagons are usually riddled with mafia, I recall a huge game quite some time ago in which Town had a one-shot role that could tell how many mafia were on a lynch. The player used it on the first day and caught 6 of the 8 mafia on the D1 wagon. Ever since that game, I firmly believe D1 lynches are important to town because mafia usually carelessly jump on them. The mafia coordinating a voting pattern on day 1 is rare.
If the D1 lynch is not a mislynch, it doesn't really matter who were on the wagon because you successfully lynched a mafia. Analysis from that wagon is just a bonus.


I don't know why we are still debating whether no lynch is better or worse than D1 lynch, a clear majority of the players seems in favour so Ultra and AoG might as well drop it, it does town no good to debate it further.

On Storr.
I currently have a town read on him due to his constant pursuit of discussion. However, apparently that's part of his general strategy, so I should cancel that out. All I know is that I am slightly less suspicious of the people going after him. If he is mafia, throwing him under the bus would be bad for his teammates because he seems capable of steering a lynch. If he is town, I don't think mafia would actively pick a fight with the most active towny only to have that backfire on them when he flips town. So I am less suspicious of most people going after Storr individually. (That means: people using original material to attack him, rather than people who endorse the pushes others make against him.)

Long post with a lot of info in it seemingly... although he contradicts himself some between the beginning and the end. Defends storr, but then says storr is neutral... FOS's nark for voting storr, but then at the end says he is less suspicious of people pushing storr since scum wouldn't be that dumb to push the most active player.
Mentions that scum like to bandwagon day 1, and it's possible to pressure without voting... I don't remember if aage voted day 1, or who he voted on, will find out as I re-read I guess. If he avoided all wagons, could be scum trying to avoid being pressured for bandwagonning.
He brought up the plurarity lynch here, the first person to do so. Could be town to remind people it's not just majority lynch, or scum trying to sound town by bringing up game mechanics.

In-post reply:

So, this really irks me... I bother to write a very good post, putting ideas out there and so forth. And the only thing I get in return is Mtam and Storr arguing the most rudimentary and ignorant rhetorical and semantic words, leaving all ofthe substance I placed in that post out so that they can bandy a few words and lead us down the path of nowhere... Great job, guys, way to totally miss the point.
You mean this post? It doesn't discuss the game at all, nor put forward relevant ideas. You talk about game mechanics, pro-town plays you don't really enjoy and flavour, which the mod forbids us to talk about.

Once Upon a Killer Mafia... Not Killers... Are we not jumping the gun just a bit to NOT surmise that only one killer exists, and the rest of us are trying to find him? A few cops, maybe a doc, a couple of Trackers, maybe... Just enough to really gum up the works when that ONE killer goes around and starts taking us down. We see that Player X was killed, but three different players saw Two or Three different players visit him...
More speculation that is irrelevant on D1. First off, if you're going to speculate on the roles, read the opening post: "I've tried to make this game as balanced as possible, but expect crazy things to go on." That defeats your entire speculation (also, second time I quoted the opening post to you, maybe you should read it). Secondly, there is no point discussing the actions for N1 before it has passed. Thirdly, you didn't mention any of this in your previous post so I don't see the point of saying "way to totally miss the point" when you never made the point.

See, Storr, you may claim I was "rolefishing," but that was the point of my last post... You know, the one you blatantly ignored so you could continue arguing semantics and looking immature. But, as no one will look past the obvious, here, I am forced to post a bit more bluntly... (But look how clever you are... )
Actually, I was the guy claiming you were rolefishing, skim much.

This is also why your attacking each and every player could very well end up as a waste of our time and effort... And your FORCING the No Lynch by trying to create some sort of stigma around it is also ridiculous...
Explain what you mean with forcing the no lynch. Storr hasn't advocated no lynch once.

Maybe we have TWO killers... Maybe a paranoid gun owner and a Serial Killer... But the point is we DO have a serial killer... And they don't have to work together.
/speculation, see above.

Brings up a lot of good points against nark. Never votes or presses the case further though... which is a little odd.

Those aren't cases he's pushing. He's franticly trying not to get lynched.

Exactly. I noticed that at one point, he said something like "hey, everyone voting for me isn't posting". I think the reason he's throwing around these OMGUS is because he feels he's still being pressured to the point of getting lynched, mainly by Zivel, but me and you (Streaker) also admitted preferring a lynch on Ultra today. Despite that, the lynching pressure on him has decreased. He's very passive-aggressive, especially the last few pages.

Explanation within 24 hours or lynch. I mean it.

(Threatening some inactive with a lynch)
Followed by:

As for why DD:
*reasons*

Also remember that I get lynched (and js we lose another if I get lynched... one with an important role...) if I have the most votes by deadline, since plurality seems to apply.

(Attempt to pull other people on his wagon, reminder that it's important that someone else has more votes than him or he is lynched)
Followed by:

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

(This is a blatant threat to town, 'i'm a power role so don't lynch me')

Now I take his soft claim seriously to some extent, and I don't like pressuring a power role into claiming... but he didn't need to claim at all. The pressure was decreasing.
Vote-wise, thinks look positive; Animainiacks unvoted between the second and the third post above - that is, the Ultra wagon went down a vote. Discussion-wise, nobody accused him significantly between those two posts: I made a remark concerning his case on Dd, but that was maybe 10% of my post. Animainiacks finished his contribution with "you still could be scum", but he did remove his vote from Ultra. Somehow that still made him softclaim.
Secondly, softclaiming a power role is not logical. Let's pull out that good old opening post again:

Hey all! Its been awhile and I'm hosting another Non-Vanilla Game.

If you're going to claim a power role, be specific. Everyone knows (or should know...) that all townies are special. Every role in this game entails more than a vote, soft claiming doesn't do anything. So why would Ultra soft claim a power role when the pressure on him has lessened while this is an NV game?


I think it's a big mistake to let him off the hook after this. When he initially voted for no lynch, I replied by saying "Tell us about your awesome night action that you're so eager to use." I'd still like him to tell us, more than ever, so I'll Vote Ultra.


Zivel, why didn't you catch this? And would you consider replacing your vote?

Made some good points about ultra. His first vote of the day, is the third vote on ultra at the time, putting him back in the lead. (I and other had already moved off of ultra by then) Now that we assume ultra is town, I guess this is all more neutral than town.

I think it makes sense. Scum could easily use the "he voted no lynch D1!!!one!!!" excuse to throw a vote on him (or me, since I did the same thing).

I don't know if I'd go further than a FOS, but the vote makes sense.

I'm criticising the reason, not the vote.

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

Not sure if softclaim just meaning non-vanilla or more specific to multiple votes.

As I said in my previous post, it's an NV game. I don't see the value of this comment, it just seems to be laying a foundation for Ultra to get off the block. Is your town read of him so strong?
This post adds up to the red flag I discussed earlier concerning Whatsausage and Ultra.

Double post

By the way, don't take my posts too personal, upon rereading I see I'm being a bit cold. I'm here to have fun with the game, and I don't want to ruin yours.

You are doing fine, no one calling you an asshole yet, so you know you haven't over stepped. i've been liking your recent posting. Interested to see who you push. While i can agree with a lot of what you are saying, i'm just not sure where you think mafia are.

I've been pushing people. Since you ask, I'm currently suspicious of Ultra, Whatsausage and Nark, and slightly suspicious of virus but not enough to warrant extra attention. Dd should probably just be MK'd or replaced as things look, if he does continue playing but keeps the same level of activity I wouldn't mind lynching him. I would have favoured a Nark lynch if Ultra hadn't softclaimed in the way he did and maybe I still do, depending on his full claim.
Unfortunately these are all 'easy' targets, so I'll discuss the list for you.

1.Hotshot53 - safe vote on virus, don't really know what to think. He is very unspecific in his posts ("some of the things [Nark] said in his posts definitely gave me a scum vibe, but other things he said sounded more towny" --> what things?) which I don't like.
2.Pancakemix - I get an irritated vibe off his remarks. His advocating the devil is town play to me - I have done so countless times in the past, it's a lawyer-y strategy of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It actually encourages discussion since it encourages more people to get involved, so that marks him more as town for me.
3.mtamburini - no clue, man. He posts in spikes of activity and sometimes I feel he doesn't share all his thoughts.
4.Streaker - used to be laying low, but I agree with his analysis on Ultra's behaviour so leaning town.
5.Virus90 - I just want him to post more (and make actual contributions in those posts)
7.Storrzerg - discussed earlier, I do not favour lynching him and I don't believe pressuring him now will move town forward, so neutral.
8.Ultrasplot - main suspect
9.Zivel - leaning town
10.Whatsausage - leaning scum, subtly buddying up to Ultra (the problem is, I don't think Ultra's flip would change that regardless of what he flips)
11.Army of God - I believe he believes his play is town.
12.Anamainiacks - liked his larger posts. Leaning town.
13.Crasp - town read as discussed earlier
14.dd515187 - I just want him to post more
15.Anarkistsdream - leaning scum
16.Strikewolf - neutral; I'm not trusting my read on him since he pinpointed me as his strong town read, which is bound to bias me.
17.Crazymilkshake5 - I just want him to post more

@UltrasPlot if i claimed VT would i be a decent lynch for today?

Yes. There are no VTs.

The first one to give a list of reads I think. Even less detailed than my list for the most part lol. Which is actually pretty funny, since he thought my list with more detail was scummy because it didn't have enough detail in it... caused a few extra people to vote me because of that. Pretty hypocritical actually. At the time he posted it, I pretty much agreed with most of his reads though.

Three lover pair madness has ensued. Great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kp-FjpdGA

First off, let me say that it would make abolutely no sense game-wise to make all lover pairs town, so this is definitely a big lead.

also FoS Virus, feel like he's trying to set me up for something =/

Ultra, please explain this post. He's supposed to be your lover, why are you making a random accusation?


So based off the info we got from Zivel, Dd and Virus, there is a clear difference between the lover connection Zivel and Dd claim to have (not with each other tho) and the lover connection Virus and Ultra claim to have. Since Zivel and Dd claim to be paired with yet more lovers, I'm inclined to go with the least amount of potential liars, i.e. Virus and Ultra.

It means Ultra is not only the most scummy candidate but also the safest lynch, since apparently Virus won't die if Ultra is lynched. We can always just lynch Virus tomorrow if he somehow survives when Ultra flips scum, which by now I'm quite sure he will.

Unless Virus and/or Zivel claims a 'primary' power in addition to being lover, they are the prime candidates for today's lynch. If they turn up town, Zivel AND Dd must be lying, but I doubt they are. Trading a lover pair for outing two mafia on day 1 is just silly.


FP by Ultra and Storr
Virus can save you from a lynch and you have no powers?
Fine, we'll lynch Virus. Not really interested in seeing a potential scum get unlynched if that proves nothing about your alignment. Because it doesn't.
Unvote, vote virus

Switched his vote to virus after the 3 lover pairs were revealed and virus outed himself. I disagreed with this play from a town perspective, as I'm sure you all know by now from my discussions with storr.

aage your vote is still on virus

Get a hold of the full picture here, mate.

Problem #1
You claim to have absolutely no powers other than being a lover. All other lovers so far have an additional power. You are talking to your lover during daytime. Dd can only talk at night. That makes you the most scummy lover of them all.

Problem #2
Being the most scummy lover, I would like to have you die to the lynch tonight, but you claim that won't happen. Lynching Virus will get you co-lynched.

Problem #3
Virus apparently bites a bullet for you if you ever die (in whatever fashion? Does he protect you from night actions too?), however Virus said

im pretty sure we dont both die if we (referrring to me OR ultra) gets killed.

which suggests it works both ways. Therefore you shouldn't have to be afraid, unless your lover is lying in which case I'd very much like to lynch him.

Problem #4

i kind of think the other lovers can confirm this

I kind of think it's a weird ass mechanic that I've never seen before. I've heard of Strong Lovers, but this works the other way around. If Zivel had a non-standard Lover role, I think he would have mentioned it. Dd firmly denies having this.

Problem #5
You're very willing to let your mod-confirmed townie die just so that you can prove yourself.

The only counter-problem is that we lose two scummy townies with no powers if you speak truthfully.

Sigh. I really believe you're both lying about your role... but I guess I'll go ahead and follow the pro-towny plan rather than the anti-mafia plan.
unvote
Not revoting to avoid quickhammer, seeing as Ultra voted himself....

After telling ultra he doesn't believe him at all, he then does the "pro-towny" plan and unvotes virus. I read this as a town move, because that's what I would have recommended doing. But could be a scum move also knowing that it would look bad to be on the bandwagon of a town lover, since at that point it looked like that ultra would be lynched instead of virus anyway.

I will sheep... vote DD5.

Several reasons.

A. When you think someone is scummy, that is the best time to listen to him/her. Having a bias based on a hunch is never going to find you scum, unless you have epic hunches (like a cop result, that would be a good time to not listen).
B. I also have a manga name, that makes three of us. I hope this stays within the rules about not discussing flavor.
C. He blindly sheeps Storrs opinion for some reason. I see no reason to assume why he is town. Blind sheeping is scummy, only mafia know who is town... unless Storr is your lover? But from his attitude I doubt that.


I also have a tin foil theory concerning the lovers but I'll share that on D2, I hate posting on my phone... placing tags is so painful.

Admits sheeping a vote, then says dd is scummy for sheeping storr? Kind of a weird hypocrisy, I took his sheeping comment as a joke since I don't think scum would say they are sheeping. This was the third vote on dd... joining another bandwagon, on another claimed lover?

Mostly posting as i read up. I will try to edit the post if information changes but if there are ideas that have been explained after I have posted here, you know why.

Also i'm still down to relynch AoG.

Also i'm still down to relynch AoG.

I share this sentiment, although it's a bit cruel to the player.


Regarding the tin foil hat theory I mentioned yesterday, I suspected at some point during the previous day that all lover couples were scum/town, which is why none of them were getting lynched.


Tamb, can you verify DD's role?

You two like the easy lynch here?

Umm maybe I misunderstood this post but Virus said that lovers should be of the same alignment. He's now been proven town. Wouldn't this kind of put a huge dent in your "Lover couplers were scum/town" theory?

I don't like the easy lynch, but Nark was a suspect yesterday. AoG replacing him hasn't changed that. No vote is out though. I also don't like Storr pointing out lynch candidates without giving real reasons, especially now that HotShot is apparently also an option. Far as I know, everyone is an option. This is not the kind of posts I expected from him.

The tin foil hat theory is tin foil hat because it involves proven townies lying to us due to their not actually being townies. If all of them are town/scum pairs, of course they would claim that they have mod confirmation about their lover's alignment, and of course none of them would argue with that. As I said though, tin foil hat. I doubt it's the case but I said I would share it yesterday.

Mtamb needs to stop whining.

Had a tin foil hat theory about lovers being town/scum pairs, even though all lovers said mod confirmed lovers were all the same orientation. Which would thrown doubt on ultra/the other pairs. A little fishy of a tin foil hat, although I guess anything is possible.

This right here is not helping. SK or mafia, who cares we have to kill them, and all it does is distract town from finding them. We are past the mechanics talk by a day and half. Also I see no reason for an SK to prefer to kill one town than two, and taken into consideration that Virus would have protection is a long shot as he was looking scummy as it was. My assumption is the kill had to be a town Vig, I could be wrong but trying to work out whether it is SK or vig is pointless until we learn more and all this does is give us more bs to read when we have enough as it is, god you love to fill up the pages dont you...

Hmm. It wouldn't make much sense for mafia to kill Ultra, I agree... They knew Virus was town (and I'm gonna assume "they knew Ultra was town") so Virus' shield role was legit as far as they knew. Shooting Ultra would have been the worst choice, better to shoot Virus and let them both die. Although it seems strange, killing ultra is ultimately a pro-town move so I would suspect a vig.

As to why this vig didn't shoot DD, I don't know.

Ultra claiming 2 vig shots is interesting, I believe it means he's town... having them for one night only sucks, especially since it's the second night, since this means you'll have to use them.
Ultra, could you describe how exactly you came about these vig shots? If Mtamb were to revive Virus and he were to save you again, would you gain 2 more? Just curious.

As far as Mtamb being DD's lover, it would make some degree of sense since Virus was also a reviver and lover.

Why the vig didn't shoot DD... probably because he wanted to test the ultra/virus claim, and not the DD claim.

Agrees that it was probably a vig shooting ultra, which I agree with (I think I said it in the first place). Of course, scum would know if that was the case or not.
"Just curious" about if ultra would gain his shots again if virus was resurrected and ultra killed again... not sure why he'd ask that.

partial claim

I watched mtamburini last night. I did not see anything,

Did your result pm say something like "nobody visited your target" , or did you get something like "nothing" as result?

If the result pm said "you did not see anything" rather than "anyONE", you could have been blocked but we'll need confirmation from Streaker.

I don't have full knowledge of what the mod would do, but I would consider jailing to be a watchable / trackable action. Especially since HotShot claimed he protects his targets from "harm", rather than making them "immune to night actions" or something.

I really wished you waited with providing this information until AFTER Streaker and HotShot both had claimed who they targeted.

HotShot's heated response doesn't look good on him. Clearly, you're waiting for Streaker to post before you go all-in on "Storr is a liar", which needn't be the case. I doubt Storr would self-sac on HotShot if he were lying, especially with the 2 vig shots from Ultra being in play.
The coincidence of Storr happening to watch HotShot's target is also sketchy, although I'll buy that he would watch Mtamb if he were watcher.

Good diagnosis questions. Throws doubt on both storr and I, although he doesn't seem to actually doubt us.
At this point he didn't know storr would claim to see him also. Could be why he really wanted to know if storr was blocked, to know if he was safe from having been seen or not.

Well, that all took like 1 1/2 hours to put together, I hope people like the more detailed read. After doing this I think I had town-leaned aage mostly because of his early game mechanics posts... now that I've gone into more detail, I'd have to say I don't town read him anymore, I'd have to say he's now neutral, leaning slightly to the scummy side...
To summarize his voting record: 3rd vote on ultra when the pressure seemed to be decreasing... switched to virus after the lover claims... unvoted virus even though saying he didn't believe anything they said... 3rd vote on dd, another claimed lover.
Today's votes: None. Questioned my reads, but hasn't actually made any cases or significant reads.

His role claim can't be proven, can't be counterclaimed, could be easily faked. I would like to see a full claim with a name etc, so I will vote aage (I still would like storr's full claim, but I guess that's not happening, and his role claim I can believe and seems proven for now, can still be tested later if needed)

Slightly extended version of my post lol.

Forgot one thing in my post:

Vote Aage

Despite my semi-counterclaim I still don't have HotShot as scum read, and we need to utilise our last few days. A claim from Storr would be great indeed, but it's already too late. He is refusing, and that is enough. The reason he stated is crap.

[Zivel]

oh and unvote HOTSHOT, I believe his claim for now.

I think if he continues to JAIL ME it might be best cause I might start giving a shit now that there is some action going on. Up to you hotshot personally dont care.


Ill try and make a lynch list tomorrow.

You can get right fucked if you think you are coming back into this game without some serious shit. You have claimed reviver and if you don't do it tonight then you have a lot if reading to do and some solid reads to avoid a quick lynch. DON'T JAILKEEP HIM. Shit we should throw a protect on him so he has no excuses

[Zivel]

Actually nah. Don't protect him. Let him die.

[strike wolf]

a. Misrepresenting your Nark case as over a joke vote: Frankly, there were a lot of people who were on it because of the joke vote and I just don't see this.

Not sure how this has to do with hotshot. I mean i know why it has to deal with hotshot, yet your not talking about the situation of me vs hotshot regarding my anark push.

One of the points was hotshot was asked about this situation. by anamainiacks

Yep, heard of it, but the conversation has clearly moved past the joke vote phase. There has been proper conversation going on, and to continue pushing a joke vote at this point would just be pointless and distracting.

This is a 3rd party, backing up the anark push, in the sense that my push was not about a joke at this point. One of the points i bring up was hotshot not responding to this, or my comment.

This is the part I admit I misread the first time. Hotshot did kind of address it by saying that by the time he read it he probably didn't find it worth commenting on. This wasn't one of his stronger points but he wasn't exactly voted as scum for it so I don't know how much you really wanted him to reach back several pages to grasp at.

b. Who he was on in the Ultra wagon: This is bs. Scum who know Ultra is not aligned with them would not want him unlocking any abilities by shooting him either. In fact, they would be less willing to consider this a good option. Also generally scum do not like leaving loose ends. If they felt they could get a two for one, I would expect at least a few to take it. I would expect the scum votes to be split on Ultra and Virus but if they favored one side, I believe it would have been to lynch Virus. As far as "if you legitimately believed they were scum you would vote Virus". Yes and no. If you were about 85% sure that they were scum than a virus lynch is preferable. However it is definitely possible to believe that they are scum and not being willing to lynch two townies. Testing claims is part of the game. And really least information provided? We have a near confirmed townie out of the deal where the only way this is no longer true is if his alignment changed over night.

Your first point is not valid. It was a hunch he would unlock abilities.

A hunch that mafia can jump to just as easily as town. There's no reason for mafia to be any less paranoid about any such hunch.

2. hotshot had no idea if ultra would have the power to vig. IN any case if he DID know, then its even safer for him to push ultra over virus since ultra WANTS to be lynched over virus to prove a point.

What power mafia suspected Ultra would get or not is completely irrelevant. For mafia knowing that Ultra was town, it's a safe bet that whatever ability it would be would not be beneficial for mafia to see in the game.

The situation was a lover claiming to just be "confirmed town" upon being lynched with virus death. Thats a pretty nice thing for mafia, you have a townie that was being very distracting day 1, who is now going to be confirmed town, who doesn't have a large voice, who won't get shit done. This is a perfectly acceptable "loose" end for mafia to have, since it still deny's a lot of information.

Alright. You've said that voting Ultra for the one person lynch would deny information a couple of times now. What specific information would town get from lynching both that they wouldn't get from just one of them? Ultra's ability that he would have gotten had Virus taken the bullet for him? Useless once he's dead. Furthermore even one extra townie can potentially delay mafia's victory over time (especially if town gets a few good protects in along the way). So that one rambling townie you mention is a bigger loose end than you give him credit for.

Again, no offense to ultra, but ultra was a weak town day 1. He is still a weak confirmed town day 2. My point stands (this was also if lynched, at the cost of virus). This whole point is an argument of opinion of me vs you, this isn't about hotshot any more. Infact, the way you bring it up, it isn't about hotshot.

It's perfectly about Hotshot. You bring up why going after Ultra was a scummy move on Hotshot's part over Virus. I countered with why I disagreed. You admitting to it being an opinion that voting Ultra was scummier than voting Virus just admits that this portion of your case was Bullshit and as I called it. Weak.

c. The whole who led Virus issue: Honestly, this isn't so much of a weak point as you just made it sound ridiculous with the whole "Invisible vote" nonsense.

Nope, I 100% stand by my "invisible" vote on virus. Again, this isn't about hotshot, its about you attacking me. The points made "hotshot /confirmed he liked all my points to why virus was scum" and then said "i was the first to vote virus". Those are the facts, this can be deemd scummy, in regards to sheeping, and misrepresenting how influential he was on pushing virus. Since his claim to "i was first on virus" was a response to being called out for bandwagoning on virus.

As I said, it wasn't so much a weak point as it sounded ridiculous. The actual logic behind it. Not really a problem. The way you said it. Sounded ridiculous as hell and I don't blame people for not taking it seriously.

So yes, i believe i had valid points regarding hotshot virus, and your response is in regards to "invisible vote" and no talk about his push on virus, if it was a townie push, or a scummy push.

In context, you are right this is where I did not adequately express my thoughts and is entirely on me. Anyways, like I said, you do have a point on this. He voted Virus based on your reasons by itself, I'd say that's neutral but if there was a point that was just bad in his defense was trying to make it sound more like his original case.

[/quote="Storrzerg"]

d. Town reading: As others have pointed out it's not really a strong Hotshot attribute to point out all the people he believes are town day 1.

I never stated he points out all his townies. The point was he hadn't made any town reads day 1, and you counter with he doesn't "point out all the people he thinks are town day 1" This is more justification for him not having any town reads. Which is fine if you want to make that kind of a statement. My issue is it doesn't align with the argument at hand. You give him room on a play style that he does give town reads day 1, and they are often few. [/quote]

But that's the thing. He defended it. And then he defended it again until you were basically beating a dead horse while trying to point out how your townie reads were so good and proved you were town. It became a townie read argument.

Now admittedly reading back through it there were somethings that stood out more and made more sense but overall I still feel like your case got weaker as it went along. At least until your analysis of his reads post. So yes it did bother me that your case on Hotshot felt like it went from well-reasoned and strong to rambly and weak. It also bugs me that others managed to bring some of the strongest points in short posts to the table when your case really had become weaker and weaker as it went on.

I don't understand why you avoid the good points i brought up.

Limited time and all that stuff.

The whole arching point of these posts is "storr had bad attacks against hotshot" Yet the conclusion doesn't line up with the body of the post.

f*ck conclusions. If I make a 20 page post, I'll put in a conclusion reiterating my points of if I just have plenty of time to do so, maybe. I didn't really have a flowing conclusion to this post. So maybe you just missed what I was getting at. I stated my reasons. You addressed them. It's not like they weren't there.

He doesn't explain what was good about my push on hotshot. He doesn't explain Who these other people are that made "better points" on hotshot, nor does he explain "what these better points are". I'd even go to say, that most of these "stronger points" had been pulled in because of the pushing on hotshot i made, and hotshots responses. Does that mean anything? Its hard to tell since strike is being really vague about what he means.

To be fair, I did call out Aage who was actually the one who I still believe broke down Hotshot's reads list the best. I thought I had mentioned a point that TFO or Anamainiacks had mentioned but perhaps I am wrong...

Ok so what you don't like over 2 days so far, I pushed aog early which seemed like an easy lynch at start, but it got complicated since i pushed hotshot. I pushed anark and then he went afk (couldn't push him more)

I didn't like that your essential push was that you were down for an AoG relynch post one of day 2. The addendum being there that you defended it by saying that you had voted Nark the day before which I gave my reasoning that you had long since stopped pushing Nark even before he had gone inactive one of your comments on him as a potential scum candidate (out of several people) was "meh might come back to him well see" which doesn't strike me as you having a very convincing scum read against Nark. It was complicated because AoG backed your case against HotShot which wasn't conclusive but did speak at a possible different relationship between you.

I'll edit out a little bit of this because by itself it doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Whoo this is important. Where did hotshot read zivel town day 1? This was a large point i made against hotshot, that he had no town reads, and now you state he did have a town read day 1 and pushed it? Why would you not bring this up? in quotes, this seems fairly important. (i think this isn't true considering hotshot made this statement today regarding having a town read on zivel day 1, and choosing to not voice his opinion on the matter)

You quoted it yourself:

This is the main thing I can't understand, is why a scum DD would come out the way he did... as mtam says, by not coming out then ultra would probably be lynched, and then if he came up town (which a scum DD would know), then zivel would have pressure and might get lynched also. The only way I can see a scum zivel coming out is if ultra is also scum, and he was doing it to either A. protect ultra from an almost certain lynch or B. gain town cred if ultra did get lynched anyway. For that reason, I still think lynching ultra is a better move than zivel, because I can't imagine why a scum zivel would come out if ultra were town, but ultra could be scum with zivel being town.

Read between the lines. He is saying a. He thinks it is unlikely that a scum Zivel would counter claim Ultra (you made a similar point I believe). b. Promotes Ultra over Zivel. Is it a strong town read? No but it's there if you just take the time to actually read between the lines.

So what do you think he was accomplishing with the attack on my case of nark (which had evolved past the joke at that point) to which a 3rd party responded, pointing out it wasn't about the joke at that point to which he didn't respond.

The case had barely evolved. I had a similar reaction to it as Hotshot as have others. I believe I've already stated this a couple of times. I do not find it scummy.

I explained why i was ignoring your case on me. 1 i didn't consider it serious, you didn't have a vote on me. 2, it was nearing end of the day and the focus was on ultra/virus/dd5/aog. Narrowing down what to do at that time was more important. 3. I had judged at the time, that i might be wrong about pcm, so stopping the conversation would be beneficial, since it was turning into more of a slugging competition of staggering posts. The matter imo, could be resolved day 2, or would resolve in the night.

1. Because I would spend the majority of the time on a four hour post talking about a case I didn't take seriously. You know perfectly well that a case can be serious without a vote so I am counting this excuse as another example of your bullshit.

2/3. And being that I knew it wasn't going to get anywhere because I exhausted most of my energy I had for that on the big post and everyone other than Pancake and Zivel had ignored it, I was willing to let it wait until tomorrow. Then you made the comment about pressuring you then and there. It struck me as a redirect to make the case seem weaker. Another example of you being manipulative. Surely you can at least see how this looks scummy to observers?

The delay of reads, has often been to cause attention, and get people thinking about what i'm talking about. Hotshot in particular, i made sure people became aware of him, to read up on him and make sure they would be ready to judge with what i presented. Its a lot easier to convince someone about something if they have limited knowledge about someone. If i was full of shit about hotshot, and my case, it would be a lot easier to judge and cut down quickly since people would be aware of his play, and the case at hand. And since my reads have been always backed up, there hasn't been an opportunity of people to claim, i sheeped someone, or that my points are not my own. Its only scummy if i had claimed to do something, then failed to do it, or sheeped someone elses read with out giving insight to my own. So Your whole point seems to be an issue with playstyle and not for something thats actually scummy.

I am mostly satisfied with this answer. The problem is that it can be a scummy tactic and as was pointed out can be used to garner opinions about a case before making it. Now what you would do with that information would determine more if it was scummy or not. That said, the generic stating of town reads bugged me worse than this.

[quote="Strike wolf] and I did not like how when someone actually pressed you on something that you said without explaining, you went off on them.
I would need context on this.

So what do you want me to do lol?

I have a town read on him

You could explain that town read

Storr's reaction:

So what do you want me to do lol?

I have a town read on him

You could explain that town read

You give a read! I'll get to crasp when I'm off my phone.

I don't like you posting your town read on Zivel as some grand town gesture when honestly, I consider it an easy read.

I made the same jester, on crasp, no comment on him? So what if its an easy town read, i made points and stated my opinion. Even if its an easy read, you can still judge zivel off the content i presented. You can still judge if what i came up makes sense, if it aligns with what you thought. Considering at the time, there was pressure on lynching one of the lover claims, and i made it clear that i thought zivel was not the option.

See this is what I find really great about how manipulative this case is. The fact that you take things out of context to make it sound like you have a point when you dont. This isn't a pancake situation. I know you had read this post before posting this so saying that you are reading as you are catching up isn't going to cut it. I stated that I felt your read on crasp was more town indicative than your Zivel read.

I mean I am pretty sure the major critics of Zivel were Mtam who stated that he believed all three lover pairs were town, AoG who no one was listening to and Virus/Ultra who had some bias in the matter. Beyond them, I believe the harshest critique of Zivel after the lover counterclaim was that we couldn't fully rule him out as a scum possibility. There was simply no legitimate risk of Zivel being lynched Day 1.

I don't think its fair for you to make that statement. Its hard to tell what would have happened, if people hadn't spoken up about their town read on zivel. Maybe tambo pushes zivel hard end of day over aog, and zivel is lynched because people don't speak up. Virus also didn't like zivel, and i'm sure a few others would have been happy to lynch him. SO considering how many people didn't speak up, we know at least 4-5 people spoke up as a possibility of lynching zivel.

Considering that Mtam had stated that he felt all three pairs of lovers were town before you made your case. I doubt he'd make a push. Well let's start with the people who started posting that they believed Zivel was town before you made your big Zivel is town case shall we? DD on Page 15, Virus initially pushed that Zivel had town cred as well on Page 15 (Actually I will admit I was wrong here Virus never really pushed Zivel as scum on day 1.), Me on Page 15, Aage Page 16, Mtam made it clear by the end of page 17 that he felt all three pairs were town, Anamainiacks reads Zivel as the most townie lover pair page 18, and TFO Page 18. Let's see that's 1...2...3...7 people not including you or Zivel nor people who obviously believed him over Virus/Ultra and we can't even guarantee that Zivel's lover even pushed him as a town read up to this point and the only one to really push him as scum was AoG. So yeah at this point, it's fair to say that Zivel is not really at risk of being lynched. After this there was one semi-accusation and WhatSausage who said we shouldn't take the case as a guarantee. There was never any sense that Zivel was going to be lynched after counter claiming lover day 1 and like it or not, that had very little to do with you. It was the players in the game who collectively decided he looked to be town.

Of course at this point, Hotshot comes in with his list of reads and yeah...I want to hear more about this but right now, I have to agree mostly with Aage's assessment of it.

fantastic you want to hear more, do you follow up really? (not really)

The next time I really had gotten on after HotShot had posted, he had made his claim. I feel this claim can be tested and proven. So no, I did not find it necessary to dissect his reply to Aage's analysis when I had reason to believe he would be proven town and you pushing me to be shot and being non-specific about when you would actually form a case against me as to why I should be shot which is still easily one of the scummiest things in this game and the reason that I am still not ready to unvote you.

So after considering long and deliberately on this...Vote Hotshot. I think Aage actually made the best post on this with his break down of Hotshot's read and honestly, I was leaning more towards voting Storr before that.

This seems oddly confusing. 1. the amount of effort spent into explaining why i had a bad case against hotshot. 2. The lack of evidence of the good points i made. 3. Supporting hotshot lynch because others convinced you (more than 1, so in addition to aage). Not knowing who the other people are. 4. Not really explaining why you find hotshot scummy, all we have is other people who did a good job explaining how he was scummy. 5. thinking he was scummy day 1, but not really doing anything about it.

I was trying to use that post to explain why I had made an earlier post and I was running out of time at the end to explain it fully. So I made it quick. Could I have added to the case? Probably if I really searched through it but I had stated some of my reasons during the course of the day (The Null reads, the increased activity when put under pressure etc.).

See this is scummy from strike. Earlier he wanted to see the follow up from hotshot about aage. Which he did follow up, and strike has no comment to make. + There is the continued pressure that strike make a more detailed read besides a 1 liner, which strike hasn't commented on. I would assume the lack of comment would be because he wants to know more, yet his actions indicate he wants to shut down hotshot discussion by avoiding it, and pressing myself. HIs explanation for the unvote, is entirely mechanical. There is no response from him regarding what he believes of hotshots alignment as of this moment, specially when he isn't following up on the hotshot lead he said he was interested in.

Like I said above. I believed the claim can be proven. Furthermore, you were giving me plenty of reason to doubt that Hotshot was indeed scummier than you were at that point and don't say I am being vague about this because I have brought it up more than a couple times at this point.

What you did was suggest that I should be shot:

These 2 posts are at very different times and don't really have a relationship. So its strange that he pairs them up, as if to say, no storr didn't look for clarity, he just wanted to lynch me. Which is false. He doesn't address anything i say in the comment either.

You asked Pancake what he was finding scummy about you suggesting I should be shot. I was backing that up. As for why they were paired up, maybe because I was making my post about why I felt you had become scummier than Hotshot with that remark.

But haven't given a read on me and won't until you've "decided" on Hotshot. Sorry but as far as I am concerned, this just sounds like you are trying to limit any time I have to make a defense against your statement which is particularly important since you know I have been busy the last couple of weeks. If this isn't incredibly scummy, it's incredibly stupid. Either way I think it's time you woke up from whatever fantasy land you like to frolic in.

Pretty weak reasoning considering we still have 3 days left at this point.

Nope. You were being unspecific. At the very least you were limiting whatever time I would have to respond to the defense.

And the comment was made with 4 days left. Plenty of substantial time, i'd give you that point if it was less than 48 hours. As it should be clear, i don't really care or pay attention to peoples RL concerns in this mafia game. I play at my own pace, and as the rules indicate, i assume everyone is able to post at least 1x every 24 hours. *(which is what the mod suggests). I'm sure this post will point out the clear issues i have with you this game, since i believe you are not playing like a town strike, your actions are more pro scum.

I really do hope you find a legitimate job some day Storr where you have to work 40+ hours a week to get by and can't spend all day on the computer criticizing others for not having the kind of time you think that they should. That said, bullshit. You know I've been busy. You have seen that there were plenty of gaps where I wasn't posting how I wanted to be posting. Could I post within the 4 day limited? Sure. Could I guarantee I could make a full defense in that time? No. If my schedule hadn't cleared up a little since last week, I probably wouldn't have found time to respond to this post.

End points. No strong stance end of Day 1.

Bullshit. I had a strong stance on AoG. I haven't exactly forgotten about DD, I am in the process of reevaluating him and frankly with all that's gone on with the HotShot case and trying to keep up with limited time, I haven't completely done that. I still feel his claim stinks. I am still open to lynching him but his overall posts today seemed townie. He expressed ideas that seemed more like his own than I felt he was yesterday.

Got claims from several people, each time he backed off the claims, with out actually looking at the person, judging to see if that persons alignment was town or scum.

Double bullshit.

Strong issue with how he is handling the hotshot/storr situation. Specially how he votes hotshot to get the claim, leaves out information regarding who influenced his decision, fails to point out the good points i made, hammers several points i made against hotshot as bad points.
Isn't following up with issues he has about hotshot.
Several points against me seem almost ludicrous (me not posting about hotshots failure to post when he was online)

[/quote]

Most of this I explained above. Some of the other stuff I apologize, it slipped through the cracks because yeah. I didn't have the time I really wanted to have for most of today.

As for your other response. Honestly, I haven't even read any of what's in the spoilers yet. I don't know when I am going to get around to it. Probably not any time in the next twenty four hours.

[Streaker]

Just my thoughts on everyone, in case I dont make the morning.

1.Hotshot53 This could really go either way, I read town in posting, but my counterclaim says otherwise...
2.Pancakemix neutral
3.mtamburini neutral
4.Streaker me town
5.Virus90 Yuuki Asuna Lover/Shield
6.aage mafia
7.Storrzerg mafia
8.Ultrasplot town (though currently mvp for mafia)
9.Zivel town
10.Whatsausage neutral
11.Army of GodKatsuragi Mayuko Town Redirector mafia
12.Anamainiacks neutral, leaning town
13.Crasp leaning town
14.dd515187 leaning mafia
15.Anarkistsdreamreplaced by AoG 2.0 mafia (still not posting anything of value)
16.Strikewolf town
17.Crazymilkshake5 replaced by TFO town, though not fully convinced

[aage]

Interesting how Aage is playing. Several times already he's taking heat away from Storr, protecting him. The past times could be credited to a town read, but his blatant protection clame is too much.
What were you hoping to achieve with that claim, Aage?

Especially the 'I'm sure i'm not a healer, I think' was weird at least.

The fact that Storr is first gathering information about whom did what, and THEN starting to claim in bits and parts about what his power is, is just super scummy.

I was trying to achieve two things.
First of all I was trying to find out whether Storr had any information concerning what my role does. The mod has now finally yielded more info to me, but when I sent in the action, I didn't even know if it would go off, and could have been a killing action for all I knew.
Second of all I was trying to see if I could catch Storr in a lie, probably the same thing he was trying to do with me. He deliberately withheld the information of the second visitor, which led me to believe he found someone who had posted after he claimed he watched Mtamb. When he initially said that he saw "nothing", I asked about the phrasing because (a) I didn't know if he could see me visit, and (b) I didn't know if he'd been blocked. When he said he saw two people, it would either have to be me, or a member of the mafia, or he had to be lying. Hence why I asked for confirmation the way I did.

Mod responded to my pm, so I will fullclaim and give the information to avoid suspicion. As far as I'm aware, Storr's role is confirmed and HotShot definitely visited Mtam last night.
My name is Takanashi Kozue, my role is Town Drunk. I send in a name, a number and have 33% chance that "it" will succeed. This is the information I've had since the beginning of the game.
Since today, I know more. A similar role was used in a previous game by Rishaed, look at this post, Little Witt's role (the top spoiler). My version is a little different since the original role had Doc, Roleblock, Mason two random people, Cupid (make lovers), or busdrive. I can't mason or cupid people (thank god), although I can doc, roleblock or busdrive (don't know how the last one works, just pm'd rish about it). My actions "may or may not work". I show up on a watcher report. Depressed Dave was 3rd party, I'm town aligned.

As for me protecting Storr "omg theyre both mafia"; why would he claim that he saw 2 people visit, and why would I respond to that? Much easier to just say "only hotshot visited" and leave it at that. No need for me to say anything, or get out of my everyone-reads-me-town hidey-hole.


@Streaker above me: tbh I'd rather lynch a roleblocker than a jailkeeper, seeing as they're more likely to be mafia, but we'll get to that.

[Streaker]

I was trying to achieve two things.
First of all I was trying to find out whether Storr had any information concerning what my role does. The mod has now finally yielded more info to me, but when I sent in the action, I didn't even know if it would go off, and could have been a killing action for all I knew.
Second of all I was trying to see if I could catch Storr in a lie, probably the same thing he was trying to do with me. He deliberately withheld the information of the second visitor, which led me to believe he found someone who had posted after he claimed he watched Mtamb. When he initially said that he saw "nothing", I asked about the phrasing because (a) I didn't know if he could see me visit, and (b) I didn't know if he'd been blocked. When he said he saw two people, it would either have to be me, or a member of the mafia, or he had to be lying. Hence why I asked for confirmation the way I did.

Mod responded to my pm, so I will fullclaim and give the information to avoid suspicion. As far as I'm aware, Storr's role is confirmed and HotShot definitely visited Mtam last night.
My name is Takanashi Kozue, my role is Town Drunk. I send in a name, a number and have 33% chance that "it" will succeed. This is the information I've had since the beginning of the game.
Since today, I know more. A similar role was used in a previous game by Rishaed, look at this post, Little Witt's role (the top spoiler). My version is a little different since the original role had Doc, Roleblock, Mason two random people, Cupid (make lovers), or busdrive. I can't mason or cupid people (thank god), although I can doc, roleblock or busdrive (don't know how the last one works, just pm'd rish about it). My actions "may or may not work". I show up on a watcher report. Depressed Dave was 3rd party, I'm town aligned.

As for me protecting Storr "omg theyre both mafia"; why would he claim that he saw 2 people visit, and why would I respond to that? Much easier to just say "only hotshot visited" and leave it at that. No need for me to say anything, or get out of my everyone-reads-me-town hidey-hole.


@Streaker above me: tbh I'd rather lynch a roleblocker than a jailkeeper, seeing as they're more likely to be mafia, but we'll get to that.

Information from Storr? After you should have been fully aware he's 'just' a tracker? If you needed information, or a trap, you would have just stated you visited.

Your claim may be a little premature... Do you HAVE to send in an action? Seems strange role for town. But then again, I've never seen roleblocker AND jailer in town either. Furthermore it's odd that you now, all of a sudden, have so much information about your role, when first you had absolutely 0 info. That's a big switch.

Storr claimed maybe to protect his claim, and his scumbuddy assisted. Since he was in a short list of 2 people to lynch today, he felt the need for a 'drastic' measure.

[aage]

Spoiler

No Lynch

Why don't we wait for tomorrow's cop report, ffs... no point randlynching now

Yeah, this is weird. Tell us about your awesome night action that you're so eager to use.

Slight role fishing? Or could just be joking.

Slight joke, but with a serious note. Ultra seemed to want to get into the night phase ASAP, hence night is interesting to him. Either he has an awesome night action or he's mafia. (or, third option, he's a towny that wants to No Lynch because f*ck knows why)

I was gonna post hours ago, but I got distracted and the editor tossed out all my post by logging out, and now Animainiacks has pretty much said everything I wanted to. So add town read on him.


I was gonna say Crasp's reads on Ultra were good, I agree that his post on no lynch is "too scummy" or at least so unbelievably stupid that I actually do not believe it, although I do think that right now he is our best final lynch target.
I was gonna say Nark doesn't seem to feel like talking since he avoids all requests for replies with evading replies about the uselessness of day 1, which is scummy.

I was also gonna explain in great detail why lynching D1 is a huge statistical advantage, and that AoG is relying on his intuition too much. Lynching day 1 provides town with an opportunity to lynch scum, an opportunity they don't get during the night. Tossing away any chance of killing scum is statistically disadvantageous. Secondly, the lynch is secondary on D1, the discussion is far more important and a good analyst will be able to use it to town's advantage. Thirdly, relying on power roles to win the game for town means you assume the game is rigged wit a large advantage for town. It's not.

I think that was it.

Makes town-sounding arguments for lynching day 1. Although it could just be saying the obvious, since a no-lynch was never going to happen anyway.

There are no valid town-sounding arguments for not lynching day 1, so yeah, I guess those are town-sounding arguments.

Long post, sorry.

I think it is a huge mistake to vote someone merely because they were online and read the thread... Maybe he was on a smartphone, which sucks to type on... Maybe he ran out of time. Admittedly, Virus is usually a more active player- i.e., in the past- but there are lots of times I have seen people keep up with the game and yet not post... Storr, what I see is you literally attacking each and every person you can and wait for what the response is... That makes you look scummy, because it makes it look like you are just trying to start bandwagon after bandwagon. If you were truly firm in the beliefs you held, you would not be so quick to give them up...

VOte: Storr

Strange pattern. Storr votes you, you're fine with it. Storr removes the vote, and only then you 'return fire'.
This is a stupid vote, lynching Storr right now would give us the least amount of information imo. Besides, this wagon-changing behaviour is actually pretty much what I expected from him on D1, and he has lived up to that the entire game, switching between suspicion and reads on nearly every player in the game. He doesn't even lead the bandwagons; his only previous vote was on you. And for that, you want to lynch him? Or is this vote just a statement?
Secondly, on bandwagons. The more the merrier. I'd be very happy to know who would be willing to wagon on any player. Lists of players who are down to pressure or lynch others early and/or late provides very useful alignment indicative information. It also doesn't matter if we steer away from any number of wagons before the day is over, because this game basically uses plurality lynch rules:

2. Voting, Lynching, and Ending the Day
a. All votes and unvotes must be in color and I would really prefer bold. If they are not, they will not be tallied.
b. You are not required to unvote before placing a new vote.
c. Lynching requires a majority of the town vote, once the majority has been reached any unvotes will not be counted. The majority is half the player's alive +1.
d. You may vote ‘no lynch’ to end the day without a death.
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

So that argument is bull. I will FoS.

For the record, and this doesn't apply to Nark alone, I really believe people are being a bit too liberal with their lynching vote. Applying pressure can be done easily without voting, as per Storr's entire activity log this day.

unvote forgot my vote was still on Nark. As far as Fake Claims, I tend to believe that town has the right to know if they are being used.

Call me crazy but what good does that do for us let alone scumhunt right now? Seen a couple other posts about this and Im not really getting the point of it.

Virus being AFK doesnt mean anything yet hopefully hell be replaced. Never seen him mis a game start before and hes usually an easy read so I hope he comes back.

Anyone around right now to talk about shit? I dont feel like reading through the massive texts of walls some of you are putting up like are you guys robots are something?

I agree with the sentiment on fake claims, it won't change day 1, all information is welcome but the mod refuses so end of story. Pushing the mod for it after he deliberately dodged the question is weird though, like you're trying to prove you're trying to help the town without running the risk of actually helping the town. So Strike and pcm, slightly scummy behaviour.


Virus post

well im there, dont you worry.
kind of disturbing that mtam thinks im an easy read, makes me doubt if im really that bad a player...
also i disagree with the logic of: "he is online --> so he has definatly read everything and is supposed to write a message" sometimes reading 3 pages and responding is not alligned with the time frame you have in mind at that moment for the game, but maybe thats just me. (also that is exactly the point why i removed that ability in whatsapp, cause people say your online so why dont you respond... so i might decide to do the same here soon, im pretty sure its a tactical adventage for mafia to disable that ability)
and besides i hate day 1, and im usually highly inactive day 1. last game proved why thats better for me (i got caught being scum that game while being active), so i generally dont comment to much day 1 since i am a bit to straight forward for some people and i always get some votes on me for speaking out what i think (or being enthousiastic )

anyway about this game,
Ultra is pointing on a no lynch for arguments i think are valid, although i dont agree. so basicly i dont want to vote ultra.
also i disagree with hotshot reasoning of the day 1 mislynch --> does it provide information about the mafia? in my opinion, it is not that hard for mafia to split votes among several people day 1, generally day 1 a town majority decides to lynch someone, even if they target a mafia player generaly some of the mafia are on that wagon aswell, just to gain town creds, and later be able to say that they lynched that person SO they are town. so in my opinion it is possible that day 1 voting patterns give information, but it is also easily rigged.

Being an easy read doesn't make you a bad player, it's actually very useful if you're town.
I suggest you do switch on ghost mode, I've had it on for as long as I can remember for this exact reason. Being online or not doesn't correlate to alignment imo, and I excuse the votes of Storr and Crasp because I believe they were cast to pressure you into posting.
Day 1 wagons are usually riddled with mafia, I recall a huge game quite some time ago in which Town had a one-shot role that could tell how many mafia were on a lynch. The player used it on the first day and caught 6 of the 8 mafia on the D1 wagon. Ever since that game, I firmly believe D1 lynches are important to town because mafia usually carelessly jump on them. The mafia coordinating a voting pattern on day 1 is rare.
If the D1 lynch is not a mislynch, it doesn't really matter who were on the wagon because you successfully lynched a mafia. Analysis from that wagon is just a bonus.


I don't know why we are still debating whether no lynch is better or worse than D1 lynch, a clear majority of the players seems in favour so Ultra and AoG might as well drop it, it does town no good to debate it further.

On Storr.
I currently have a town read on him due to his constant pursuit of discussion. However, apparently that's part of his general strategy, so I should cancel that out. All I know is that I am slightly less suspicious of the people going after him. If he is mafia, throwing him under the bus would be bad for his teammates because he seems capable of steering a lynch. If he is town, I don't think mafia would actively pick a fight with the most active towny only to have that backfire on them when he flips town. So I am less suspicious of most people going after Storr individually. (That means: people using original material to attack him, rather than people who endorse the pushes others make against him.)

Long post with a lot of info in it seemingly... although he contradicts himself some between the beginning and the end. Defends storr, but then says storr is neutral... FOS's nark for voting storr, but then at the end says he is less suspicious of people pushing storr since scum wouldn't be that dumb to push the most active player.
Mentions that scum like to bandwagon day 1, and it's possible to pressure without voting... I don't remember if aage voted day 1, or who he voted on, will find out as I re-read I guess. If he avoided all wagons, could be scum trying to avoid being pressured for bandwagonning.
He brought up the plurarity lynch here, the first person to do so. Could be town to remind people it's not just majority lynch, or scum trying to sound town by bringing up game mechanics.

I brought it up because it was relevant to Nark's argument. He said Storr started "bandwagon after bandwagon" like that was a bad thing, which it's not.

In-post reply:

So, this really irks me... I bother to write a very good post, putting ideas out there and so forth. And the only thing I get in return is Mtam and Storr arguing the most rudimentary and ignorant rhetorical and semantic words, leaving all ofthe substance I placed in that post out so that they can bandy a few words and lead us down the path of nowhere... Great job, guys, way to totally miss the point.
You mean this post? It doesn't discuss the game at all, nor put forward relevant ideas. You talk about game mechanics, pro-town plays you don't really enjoy and flavour, which the mod forbids us to talk about.

Once Upon a Killer Mafia... Not Killers... Are we not jumping the gun just a bit to NOT surmise that only one killer exists, and the rest of us are trying to find him? A few cops, maybe a doc, a couple of Trackers, maybe... Just enough to really gum up the works when that ONE killer goes around and starts taking us down. We see that Player X was killed, but three different players saw Two or Three different players visit him...
More speculation that is irrelevant on D1. First off, if you're going to speculate on the roles, read the opening post: "I've tried to make this game as balanced as possible, but expect crazy things to go on." That defeats your entire speculation (also, second time I quoted the opening post to you, maybe you should read it). Secondly, there is no point discussing the actions for N1 before it has passed. Thirdly, you didn't mention any of this in your previous post so I don't see the point of saying "way to totally miss the point" when you never made the point.

See, Storr, you may claim I was "rolefishing," but that was the point of my last post... You know, the one you blatantly ignored so you could continue arguing semantics and looking immature. But, as no one will look past the obvious, here, I am forced to post a bit more bluntly... (But look how clever you are... )
Actually, I was the guy claiming you were rolefishing, skim much.

This is also why your attacking each and every player could very well end up as a waste of our time and effort... And your FORCING the No Lynch by trying to create some sort of stigma around it is also ridiculous...
Explain what you mean with forcing the no lynch. Storr hasn't advocated no lynch once.

Maybe we have TWO killers... Maybe a paranoid gun owner and a Serial Killer... But the point is we DO have a serial killer... And they don't have to work together.
/speculation, see above.

Brings up a lot of good points against nark. Never votes or presses the case further though... which is a little odd.

Already explained earlier why I don't throw my vote around on every whim. If it was odd, you should have said so when I did.

Those aren't cases he's pushing. He's franticly trying not to get lynched.

Exactly. I noticed that at one point, he said something like "hey, everyone voting for me isn't posting". I think the reason he's throwing around these OMGUS is because he feels he's still being pressured to the point of getting lynched, mainly by Zivel, but me and you (Streaker) also admitted preferring a lynch on Ultra today. Despite that, the lynching pressure on him has decreased. He's very passive-aggressive, especially the last few pages.

Explanation within 24 hours or lynch. I mean it.

(Threatening some inactive with a lynch)
Followed by:

As for why DD:
*reasons*

Also remember that I get lynched (and js we lose another if I get lynched... one with an important role...) if I have the most votes by deadline, since plurality seems to apply.

(Attempt to pull other people on his wagon, reminder that it's important that someone else has more votes than him or he is lynched)
Followed by:

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

(This is a blatant threat to town, 'i'm a power role so don't lynch me')

Now I take his soft claim seriously to some extent, and I don't like pressuring a power role into claiming... but he didn't need to claim at all. The pressure was decreasing.
Vote-wise, thinks look positive; Animainiacks unvoted between the second and the third post above - that is, the Ultra wagon went down a vote. Discussion-wise, nobody accused him significantly between those two posts: I made a remark concerning his case on Dd, but that was maybe 10% of my post. Animainiacks finished his contribution with "you still could be scum", but he did remove his vote from Ultra. Somehow that still made him softclaim.
Secondly, softclaiming a power role is not logical. Let's pull out that good old opening post again:

Hey all! Its been awhile and I'm hosting another Non-Vanilla Game.

If you're going to claim a power role, be specific. Everyone knows (or should know...) that all townies are special. Every role in this game entails more than a vote, soft claiming doesn't do anything. So why would Ultra soft claim a power role when the pressure on him has lessened while this is an NV game?


I think it's a big mistake to let him off the hook after this. When he initially voted for no lynch, I replied by saying "Tell us about your awesome night action that you're so eager to use." I'd still like him to tell us, more than ever, so I'll Vote Ultra.


Zivel, why didn't you catch this? And would you consider replacing your vote?

Made some good points about ultra. His first vote of the day, is the third vote on ultra at the time, putting him back in the lead. (I and other had already moved off of ultra by then) Now that we assume ultra is town, I guess this is all more neutral than town.

"Met de kennis van nu..." (Virus might get this)
^means "with today's knowledge...". Obviously, we wouldn't vote Ultra today because we have a dead townie to prove his alignment. Yesterday was a very different story, even you admit that I made good points. Streaker was even still voting him still by the end of the day, but I don't think that's a reason to name him scum. If you'll recall, I still didn't believe Ultra at the end of the day, and was swayed by the lack of support and Mtam's remark that one of them would probably die in the night.

I think it makes sense. Scum could easily use the "he voted no lynch D1!!!one!!!" excuse to throw a vote on him (or me, since I did the same thing).

I don't know if I'd go further than a FOS, but the vote makes sense.

I'm criticising the reason, not the vote.

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

Not sure if softclaim just meaning non-vanilla or more specific to multiple votes.

As I said in my previous post, it's an NV game. I don't see the value of this comment, it just seems to be laying a foundation for Ultra to get off the block. Is your town read of him so strong?
This post adds up to the red flag I discussed earlier concerning Whatsausage and Ultra.

Double post

By the way, don't take my posts too personal, upon rereading I see I'm being a bit cold. I'm here to have fun with the game, and I don't want to ruin yours.

You are doing fine, no one calling you an asshole yet, so you know you haven't over stepped. i've been liking your recent posting. Interested to see who you push. While i can agree with a lot of what you are saying, i'm just not sure where you think mafia are.

I've been pushing people. Since you ask, I'm currently suspicious of Ultra, Whatsausage and Nark, and slightly suspicious of virus but not enough to warrant extra attention. Dd should probably just be MK'd or replaced as things look, if he does continue playing but keeps the same level of activity I wouldn't mind lynching him. I would have favoured a Nark lynch if Ultra hadn't softclaimed in the way he did and maybe I still do, depending on his full claim.
Unfortunately these are all 'easy' targets, so I'll discuss the list for you.

1.Hotshot53 - safe vote on virus, don't really know what to think. He is very unspecific in his posts ("some of the things [Nark] said in his posts definitely gave me a scum vibe, but other things he said sounded more towny" --> what things?) which I don't like.
2.Pancakemix - I get an irritated vibe off his remarks. His advocating the devil is town play to me - I have done so countless times in the past, it's a lawyer-y strategy of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It actually encourages discussion since it encourages more people to get involved, so that marks him more as town for me.
3.mtamburini - no clue, man. He posts in spikes of activity and sometimes I feel he doesn't share all his thoughts.
4.Streaker - used to be laying low, but I agree with his analysis on Ultra's behaviour so leaning town.
5.Virus90 - I just want him to post more (and make actual contributions in those posts)
7.Storrzerg - discussed earlier, I do not favour lynching him and I don't believe pressuring him now will move town forward, so neutral.
8.Ultrasplot - main suspect
9.Zivel - leaning town
10.Whatsausage - leaning scum, subtly buddying up to Ultra (the problem is, I don't think Ultra's flip would change that regardless of what he flips)
11.Army of God - I believe he believes his play is town.
12.Anamainiacks - liked his larger posts. Leaning town.
13.Crasp - town read as discussed earlier
14.dd515187 - I just want him to post more
15.Anarkistsdream - leaning scum
16.Strikewolf - neutral; I'm not trusting my read on him since he pinpointed me as his strong town read, which is bound to bias me.
17.Crazymilkshake5 - I just want him to post more

@UltrasPlot if i claimed VT would i be a decent lynch for today?

Yes. There are no VTs.

The first one to give a list of reads I think. Even less detailed than my list for the most part lol. Which is actually pretty funny, since he thought my list with more detail was scummy because it didn't have enough detail in it... caused a few extra people to vote me because of that. Pretty hypocritical actually. At the time he posted it, I pretty much agreed with most of his reads though.

Apples/oranges. The list you quote was on page f*cking twelve. Not surprised it was the first list of reads. I only provided it because, as I said in that post, Storr asked me who I was pushing, and I figured I might as well discuss everyone.

Three lover pair madness has ensued. Great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kp-FjpdGA

First off, let me say that it would make abolutely no sense game-wise to make all lover pairs town, so this is definitely a big lead.

also FoS Virus, feel like he's trying to set me up for something =/

Ultra, please explain this post. He's supposed to be your lover, why are you making a random accusation?


So based off the info we got from Zivel, Dd and Virus, there is a clear difference between the lover connection Zivel and Dd claim to have (not with each other tho) and the lover connection Virus and Ultra claim to have. Since Zivel and Dd claim to be paired with yet more lovers, I'm inclined to go with the least amount of potential liars, i.e. Virus and Ultra.

It means Ultra is not only the most scummy candidate but also the safest lynch, since apparently Virus won't die if Ultra is lynched. We can always just lynch Virus tomorrow if he somehow survives when Ultra flips scum, which by now I'm quite sure he will.

Unless Virus and/or Zivel claims a 'primary' power in addition to being lover, they are the prime candidates for today's lynch. If they turn up town, Zivel AND Dd must be lying, but I doubt they are. Trading a lover pair for outing two mafia on day 1 is just silly.


FP by Ultra and Storr
Virus can save you from a lynch and you have no powers?
Fine, we'll lynch Virus. Not really interested in seeing a potential scum get unlynched if that proves nothing about your alignment. Because it doesn't.
Unvote, vote virus

Switched his vote to virus after the 3 lover pairs were revealed and virus outed himself. I disagreed with this play from a town perspective, as I'm sure you all know by now from my discussions with storr.

I switched the vote because I thought Ultra was scum. He claimed that he would not die if we lynched him, but that he would die if we lynched Virus. Obviously, I switched to Virus; I wanted Ultra to die to that lynch. I get that you would disagree, but you're too focussed on preserving town rather than eliminating mafia.

aage your vote is still on virus

Get a hold of the full picture here, mate.

Problem #1
You claim to have absolutely no powers other than being a lover. All other lovers so far have an additional power. You are talking to your lover during daytime. Dd can only talk at night. That makes you the most scummy lover of them all.

Problem #2
Being the most scummy lover, I would like to have you die to the lynch tonight, but you claim that won't happen. Lynching Virus will get you co-lynched.

Problem #3
Virus apparently bites a bullet for you if you ever die (in whatever fashion? Does he protect you from night actions too?), however Virus said

im pretty sure we dont both die if we (referrring to me OR ultra) gets killed.

which suggests it works both ways. Therefore you shouldn't have to be afraid, unless your lover is lying in which case I'd very much like to lynch him.

Problem #4

i kind of think the other lovers can confirm this

I kind of think it's a weird ass mechanic that I've never seen before. I've heard of Strong Lovers, but this works the other way around. If Zivel had a non-standard Lover role, I think he would have mentioned it. Dd firmly denies having this.

Problem #5
You're very willing to let your mod-confirmed townie die just so that you can prove yourself.

The only counter-problem is that we lose two scummy townies with no powers if you speak truthfully.

Sigh. I really believe you're both lying about your role... but I guess I'll go ahead and follow the pro-towny plan rather than the anti-mafia plan.
unvote
Not revoting to avoid quickhammer, seeing as Ultra voted himself....

After telling ultra he doesn't believe him at all, he then does the "pro-towny" plan and unvotes virus. I read this as a town move, because that's what I would have recommended doing. But could be a scum move also knowing that it would look bad to be on the bandwagon of a town lover, since at that point it looked like that ultra would be lynched instead of virus anyway.

Already discussed the "pro-towny" phrasing several times, I'll lay it out for you again...
Pro-towny = reduce the number of casualties to a minimum, get some confirmed town players, resume circle jerk.
Anti-mafia = actually trying to lynch the mafia, and don't cry in a corner if you mislynch.
I believe the second strategy is better. Lynching Ultra would have been no better than a No Lynch, if you believed his claim.

I will sheep... vote DD5.

Several reasons.

A. When you think someone is scummy, that is the best time to listen to him/her. Having a bias based on a hunch is never going to find you scum, unless you have epic hunches (like a cop result, that would be a good time to not listen).
B. I also have a manga name, that makes three of us. I hope this stays within the rules about not discussing flavor.
C. He blindly sheeps Storrs opinion for some reason. I see no reason to assume why he is town. Blind sheeping is scummy, only mafia know who is town... unless Storr is your lover? But from his attitude I doubt that.


I also have a tin foil theory concerning the lovers but I'll share that on D2, I hate posting on my phone... placing tags is so painful.

Admits sheeping a vote, then says dd is scummy for sheeping storr? Kind of a weird hypocrisy, I took his sheeping comment as a joke since I don't think scum would say they are sheeping. This was the third vote on dd... joining another bandwagon, on another claimed lover?

Yes. I said earlier during the day that I believed there was scum between the lover pairs - no way they're all town. I said "sheeping" because I'd lie if I said it wasn't. I cast the vote because I was going out of town and didn't know whether I would have access to the forums before the day ended. A townie that doesn't cast a vote by the end of the day is just stupid.

Mostly posting as i read up. I will try to edit the post if information changes but if there are ideas that have been explained after I have posted here, you know why.

Also i'm still down to relynch AoG.

Also i'm still down to relynch AoG.

I share this sentiment, although it's a bit cruel to the player.


Regarding the tin foil hat theory I mentioned yesterday, I suspected at some point during the previous day that all lover couples were scum/town, which is why none of them were getting lynched.


Tamb, can you verify DD's role?

You two like the easy lynch here?

Umm maybe I misunderstood this post but Virus said that lovers should be of the same alignment. He's now been proven town. Wouldn't this kind of put a huge dent in your "Lover couplers were scum/town" theory?

I don't like the easy lynch, but Nark was a suspect yesterday. AoG replacing him hasn't changed that. No vote is out though. I also don't like Storr pointing out lynch candidates without giving real reasons, especially now that HotShot is apparently also an option. Far as I know, everyone is an option. This is not the kind of posts I expected from him.

The tin foil hat theory is tin foil hat because it involves proven townies lying to us due to their not actually being townies. If all of them are town/scum pairs, of course they would claim that they have mod confirmation about their lover's alignment, and of course none of them would argue with that. As I said though, tin foil hat. I doubt it's the case but I said I would share it yesterday.

Mtamb needs to stop whining.

Had a tin foil hat theory about lovers being town/scum pairs, even though all lovers said mod confirmed lovers were all the same orientation. Which would thrown doubt on ultra/the other pairs. A little fishy of a tin foil hat, although I guess anything is possible.

Yes it would throw doubt, but I discarded the theory. You've accused me earlier of being scummy for voting DD and Ultra/Virus, now you think I'm scummy for suggesting the lover pairs could be lying. Do you believe all lover pairs to be town/town, HotShot? If so, that would explain your stance on my votes and accusations.

This right here is not helping. SK or mafia, who cares we have to kill them, and all it does is distract town from finding them. We are past the mechanics talk by a day and half. Also I see no reason for an SK to prefer to kill one town than two, and taken into consideration that Virus would have protection is a long shot as he was looking scummy as it was. My assumption is the kill had to be a town Vig, I could be wrong but trying to work out whether it is SK or vig is pointless until we learn more and all this does is give us more bs to read when we have enough as it is, god you love to fill up the pages dont you...

Hmm. It wouldn't make much sense for mafia to kill Ultra, I agree... They knew Virus was town (and I'm gonna assume "they knew Ultra was town") so Virus' shield role was legit as far as they knew. Shooting Ultra would have been the worst choice, better to shoot Virus and let them both die. Although it seems strange, killing ultra is ultimately a pro-town move so I would suspect a vig.

As to why this vig didn't shoot DD, I don't know.

Ultra claiming 2 vig shots is interesting, I believe it means he's town... having them for one night only sucks, especially since it's the second night, since this means you'll have to use them.
Ultra, could you describe how exactly you came about these vig shots? If Mtamb were to revive Virus and he were to save you again, would you gain 2 more? Just curious.

As far as Mtamb being DD's lover, it would make some degree of sense since Virus was also a reviver and lover.

Why the vig didn't shoot DD... probably because he wanted to test the ultra/virus claim, and not the DD claim.

Agrees that it was probably a vig shooting ultra, which I agree with (I think I said it in the first place). Of course, scum would know if that was the case or not.
"Just curious" about if ultra would gain his shots again if virus was resurrected and ultra killed again... not sure why he'd ask that.

Gunning for DD would have killed nobody, gunning for Ultra would have guaranteed someone to die. I don't think Ultra would be a better choice for a vig.
While we're talking about hypocricy... Pretty sketchy that you say "scum would know it's a vig" after saying you were the guy that said it first.

partial claim

I watched mtamburini last night. I did not see anything,

Did your result pm say something like "nobody visited your target" , or did you get something like "nothing" as result?

If the result pm said "you did not see anything" rather than "anyONE", you could have been blocked but we'll need confirmation from Streaker.

I don't have full knowledge of what the mod would do, but I would consider jailing to be a watchable / trackable action. Especially since HotShot claimed he protects his targets from "harm", rather than making them "immune to night actions" or something.

I really wished you waited with providing this information until AFTER Streaker and HotShot both had claimed who they targeted.

HotShot's heated response doesn't look good on him. Clearly, you're waiting for Streaker to post before you go all-in on "Storr is a liar", which needn't be the case. I doubt Storr would self-sac on HotShot if he were lying, especially with the 2 vig shots from Ultra being in play.
The coincidence of Storr happening to watch HotShot's target is also sketchy, although I'll buy that he would watch Mtamb if he were watcher.

Good diagnosis questions. Throws doubt on both storr and I, although he doesn't seem to actually doubt us.
At this point he didn't know storr would claim to see him also. Could be why he really wanted to know if storr was blocked, to know if he was safe from having been seen or not.

I didn't have reason to doubt you, I did have reason to doubt Storr, per my own night action. Better to make him feel safe before I deliver a damning blow by claiming my own action. He did eventually say he saw me before I claimed though, so his gambit paid off to some extent.

HotShot response in spoiler

@Streaker
No, I don't have to send in an action. That's one of the things I also asked the mod today, because it's unreliable as f*ck and there isn't really a way to guarantee that my action will help town. I'm considering never using it at all.

[Army of GOD]

11.Army of GodKatsuragi Mayuko Town Redirector mafia

yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.


also, the argument against aage is really weak. Like, Hotshot voted aage despite saying "well, this could be town..." several times. Also, a FOS Streaker for going along with Hotshot and for what I quoted above (him thinking AoG1.0 was scum...). I'm going to keep my vote on Hotshot because while I think his claim is somewhat believable, I haven't liked his play otherwise.

[StorrZerg]

Also,as per Storr's case on strike...just no. Ive liked strike's posts from a town POV so far and honestly while I liked Storr's aggression on Hotshot originally now he's kind of looking like he's just trying to attack everyone. I had him slightly town before but now I'm pegging him down to neutral. I'm not sure what to make of everything he's been trying to do.

Not satisfied... "aog is a pink donkey cause of his posting"
see how silly that sounds? thats how silly your town read is. Note, i'm fine if you are reading him town, I'm not fine with you not defending any point i made, or backing up your claim with something he did, that made you read him as town.


(responded to the accusations of attacking everyone below)

Have to agree with AoG here. I think Storr is pinning scum on whoever disagrees with him...we should keep an eye on this. I'm tired right now, but I'll look into it tomorrow and see if I can come up with any leads...

(Not unlynching yet...)

This is an incorrect statement. "attacking everyone" This can't be true, since i'm town reading many people... and produced my town reads which i don't think you ever commented on.
and attacking people is a way i use to get reads, creates pressure, people react, people give opinions on the situation, evaluation.
Hotshot was not calling me scum... I made a case on him, he then countered with calling me scum.
whatsausage has been very inactive... pressure on him is warranted.
You got me on strike wolf.

[StorrZerg]

@aage. would you know if your action had made it to tambo???

You just claimed the possibility of being a doc on tambo n1....

[StorrZerg]

Interesting how Aage is playing. Several times already he's taking heat away from Storr, protecting him. The past times could be credited to a town read, but his blatant protection clame is too much.
What were you hoping to achieve with that claim, Aage?

Especially the 'I'm sure i'm not a healer, I think' was weird at least.

The fact that Storr is first gathering information about whom did what, and THEN starting to claim in bits and parts about what his power is, is just super scummy.

The biggest issue right now is Storr refusing to claim. It's a stretch to think an assassin-like role in the game, at this point it would do you (and especially town) more good then bad to claim.


What I don't like is the manner of Ultra's pushing him to claim. I'd lynch Ultra right here and now all over again for his power rush. Seriously dude, you are basicly the only confirmed town, ACT LIKE ONE.

1. aage didn't have a choice. Sure he could have not claimed, but he had to come forth and claim he was visiting hotshot.
2. the healer comment isn't that strange. Since, if he thought he could have healed tambo, that would put doubt on hotshots claim. since 2 protective roles on the same person same night, with a death that was done likely from 3rd party or vig, would heavily indicate one would be a liar.

3. I had the information to start. I picked hotshot since i didn't have a town read on him. aage, i was town reading at the time which is why i didn't pressure him. Again the whole ordeal was to set up a trap. If hotshot claimed to not visit tambo, i could out both hotshot and aage. aage would confirm he did visit tambo, thus making my claim look very strong.
If both hotshot, and aage claimed protective roles on tambo, then i would know its likely one of them lied. Since its extremely unlikely 2 protective roles would be on mtamburini since he lead the incorrect lynch on AoG
After Hotshot claimed, there was still the potential for a trap. Some games the jailer removes the target, and all actions on the target fail, since they cannot reach the target.
In some cases only kills fail.

Pending how he answered i could catch him in a lie, since i stated i hadn't seen anyone. Reason being, i knew 2 people had visited, i could claim after proving my real claim. If hotshot tried to answer the claim in a manner to please the situation, "well since i jailed tamb you couldn't have watched him thats why it failed" i could have caught him in the lie.

once he had fully claimed his ability (hotshot that is) There was still room for aage. He could have been cop at that point, with a check on tambo, to disprove hotshots claim. (since that would have contradicted what hotshot said).

With all said and done. I had information on night actions. I wanted to share this since i thought it was odd 2 people visited tambo. (3 including me)

while writing this i noticed aage's full claim indicates he COULD have saved... (inquiring more about this..)(as posted above)

4. it honestly isn't an issue that i'm with holding my flavor. Maybe its very easily to verify cause its a popular anime, maybe its something really obscure based on some old literature reference that has an anime. Either way, i don't want my alignment to be judged based on flavor. (look at dd5, look how much confusion his claim brought, that was misguided) sure we still dont' know his alignment, but look how many attacks started because "it wasn't a manga" .


Either way, it isn't a major issue. Its been pointed out, i'm not doing this to stall for time, i would have clearly of had something if i was faking this whole escapade.

[StorrZerg]

@those pushing me. why are none of you inquiring with pcm right now. He is one of the larger supporters of my lynch, and has been on radio silence for quite some time..

[Streaker]

11.Army of GodKatsuragi Mayuko Town Redirector mafia

yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.


also, the argument against aage is really weak. Like, Hotshot voted aage despite saying "well, this could be town..." several times. Also, a FOS Streaker for going along with Hotshot and for what I quoted above (him thinking AoG1.0 was scum...). I'm going to keep my vote on Hotshot because while I think his claim is somewhat believable, I haven't liked his play otherwise.

0,00 sense this makes. yes I marked AoG1.0 as scum, as that was my read at that time. Now, if you will notice the similar smiley behind the other death, it means I actually noticed it.
i'll fire back at you, have YOU been paying attention?

Do you even understand the argument?

I'm tagging along with HotShot? What the actual F. I made the first post on him (and forgot to vote). I also counterclaimed him, and I didn't do that to make him look town, lol.
Yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.

Another great post from you. i'll just switch my read on you to town now.

[StorrZerg]

@streaker, last game strike hosted basically had roleblocker (mtambo) and a more complicated jailer (jonty)

Secondly, If its to be believed no kill shot was sent at tambo, and hotshot did not protect a shot. Wouldn't you think who ever you role blocked might have sent a kill shot and failed???

[Army of GOD]

11.Army of GodKatsuragi Mayuko Town Redirector mafia

yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.


also, the argument against aage is really weak. Like, Hotshot voted aage despite saying "well, this could be town..." several times. Also, a FOS Streaker for going along with Hotshot and for what I quoted above (him thinking AoG1.0 was scum...). I'm going to keep my vote on Hotshot because while I think his claim is somewhat believable, I haven't liked his play otherwise.

0,00 sense this makes. yes I marked AoG1.0 as scum, as that was my read at that time. Now, if you will notice the similar smiley behind the other death, it means I actually noticed it.
i'll fire back at you, have YOU been paying attention?

but you do know he was confirmed town right? I don't understand why you would put mafia next to him when he's not...it doesn't make any sense.

Do you even understand the argument?

I'm tagging along with HotShot? What the actual F. I made the first post on him (and forgot to vote). I also counterclaimed him, and I didn't do that to make him look town, lol.
Yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.

Another great post from you. i'll just switch my read on you to town now.

this was your post before you voted aage.

Interesting how Aage is playing. Several times already he's taking heat away from Storr, protecting him. The past times could be credited to a town read, but his blatant protection clame is too much.
What were you hoping to achieve with that claim, Aage?

Especially the 'I'm sure i'm not a healer, I think' was weird at least.

The fact that Storr is first gathering information about whom did what, and THEN starting to claim in bits and parts about what his power is, is just super scummy.

The biggest issue right now is Storr refusing to claim. It's a stretch to think an assassin-like role in the game, at this point it would do you (and especially town) more good then bad to claim.


What I don't like is the manner of Ultra's pushing him to claim. I'd lynch Ultra right here and now all over again for his power rush. Seriously dude, you are basicly the only confirmed town, ACT LIKE ONE.

you make a very soft accusation of aage and then go on to say "the biggest issue right now is Storr". So if Storr is the biggest issue, why are you not putting a vote on him and not aage?

[aage]

11.Army of GodKatsuragi Mayuko Town Redirector mafia

yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.


also, the argument against aage is really weak. Like, Hotshot voted aage despite saying "well, this could be town..." several times. Also, a FOS Streaker for going along with Hotshot and for what I quoted above (him thinking AoG1.0 was scum...). I'm going to keep my vote on Hotshot because while I think his claim is somewhat believable, I haven't liked his play otherwise.

0,00 sense this makes. yes I marked AoG1.0 as scum, as that was my read at that time. Now, if you will notice the similar smiley behind the other death, it means I actually noticed it.
i'll fire back at you, have YOU been paying attention?

Do you even understand the argument?

I'm tagging along with HotShot? What the actual F. I made the first post on him (and forgot to vote). I also counterclaimed him, and I didn't do that to make him look town, lol.
Yeah, so you haven't been paying attention at all.

Another great post from you. i'll just switch my read on you to town now.

From your lack of further attacking me, storr or hotshot, I understand that you targeted none of us with your block?

@Storr
I asked the mod, no way to tell for sure whether my action was successful // which action I ended up doing. But HotShot seems cleared for now, imo, and I'd rather push others (or defend myself, if need be), so I'll be looking into that Strike Wolf case at long last.
The least you can gather from your result is that, at the least, one of us cannot be mafia. (Only the two of us visited, Mtamb lives; if we were both mafia, he'd be dead.)

[StorrZerg]

@aage, you should see if the bus driver would happen before a jail....

If thats the case, then you only had 2 possibilities on mtamb. block or medic...

[mtamburini]

oh and unvote HOTSHOT, I believe his claim for now.

I think if he continues to JAIL ME it might be best cause I might start giving a shit now that there is some action going on. Up to you hotshot personally dont care.


Ill try and make a lynch list tomorrow.

You can get right fucked if you think you are coming back into this game without some serious shit. You have claimed reviver and if you don't do it tonight then you have a lot if reading to do and some solid reads to avoid a quick lynch. DON'T JAILKEEP HIM. Shit we should throw a protect on him so he has no excuses

Actually nah. Don't protect him. Let him die.

AND THE HATERS GONNA HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

IM JUST GONNA SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE

SHAKE IT OFF SHAKE IT OFF

[Streaker]

its not rocket science to know who i blocked

[mtamburini]

1.Hotshot53 TOWN
2.Pancakemix MEH
3.mtamburini TOWN AS f*ck
4.Streaker WOULDNT CARE IF HE DIED
6.aage WOULDNT LYNCH OR VIGI SHOOT
7.Storrzerg TOWN
8.Ultrasplot TOWN I GUESS
9.Zivel LOVER CLAIM COULD BE BS, BEEN ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR HIS LOVER
10.Whatsausage SCUM, MIGHT BE MODKILLED SO IF HE IS YOU CAN SHOOT SOMEONE ELSE
12.Anamainiacks MAKES LONG AS POSTS
13.Crasp SHOOT IF WE DONT LYNCH HIM
14.dd515187 TOWN IN EVERY SCENARIO POSSIBLE
15.Anarkistsdreamreplaced by AoG 2.0 MEH PROB TOWN
16.Strikewolf WOULD LYNCH SO THAT IF IM WRONG ID REVIVE
17.Crazymilkshake5 replaced by TFO SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT BANG BANG BANG

[mtamburini]

its not rocket science to know who i blocked

so then just say it

[pancakemix]

@those pushing me. why are none of you inquiring with pcm right now. He is one of the larger supporters of my lynch, and has been on radio silence for quite some time..

Suck my cock. Seriously. How many fucking times do I have to say I'm limited right now in how much I can post? You didn't even respond to my last post, so you have no right to even harp on me.

Also, fucking fullclaim.

Why are people voting aage? He might maybe have a weird role that might maybe be something or other? How is that scummy? Aage has handled himself pretty well there, but HotShot's stock is crashing and Streaker warrants a very close look now (but I'd have probably said that before too).

[StorrZerg]

Shit I call you out and you respond damn.

I'm not being lynched because of my partial claim is confirmed.

And i will be expected to provide further information tomorrow regardless.

So you can yell at me all you want. I'm not claiming my flavor.

Besides that, I agree on the aage points.

I think streaker blocked dd5... I hope I'm wrong since that makes streaker loom super scummy.

It might be crasp though.

[Whatsausage]

Alright so I have spent a lot of yesterday and this morning finally catching up and should be able to get a post out in ~2 hours from now.
Sorry for the absence, it was a bad week and I figured this would take a lot of time to catch up on after I got a bit behind (it did) and really wasn't in the mood to do it with how the week was going and all. This shouldn't happen again.

One point before my later post, what is the point of these "its obvious, so I'm not going to say it" statements? It doesn't benefit town at all, just delays. It isn't hiding anything from scum if it really is as obvious as you say. So either it isn't obvious and you are wasting everyone's time trying to look for an obvious answer, or it is obvious and there is no reason not to say it and you are wasting everyone's time by making someone else say it or demand it from you. (I don't think he had said it, but I did just do a lot of catching up and COULD have missed it)
So that said, I agree that streaker should state who he blocked, as that would give us a lead. I don't think it is likely that there is only one killing role in this game (even including ultras).

Fp'd by storr