Foundation Mafia [6/12] Endgame: Second Foundation Wins.

[degaston]

I'm still trying to figure out what to do next.

For the moment, I'm going to say that Endgame is confirmed town for me. No one countered the double vote claim, and if he's scum, then the game might as well be over anyway.

That said, I don't think I can support his current vote on HotShot. I'm leaning town for him - I suppose that's because we were on the same side regarding Tim v. Dakky, and now he's voting for aage, but I'll take another look.

[Endgame422]

Fair enough deg.fwiw im reading you and dakky as town. I made my small case on HS cuz its my best guess right now but im far from certain about it.
Other reads.
Aage-totally unsure what to make of him right now,that kinda worries me as last time we were town together i knew it right away,just meta on him really.
Mitch-claimed doc without being countered so im guessing he is town. Also his jumpiness makes sense to me because most of town is lost right now so i imagine mitch is as well.
Daz-i was thinking he may be scum but his last couple posts seem legit,if i had to guess right now id say town.
Epi-Slight scum read on epi,his banter with mets day one about skimming/not really participating being followed by him not really participating D2 and avoiding the whole tim thing(despite me directly asking for his opinion on that while he was browsing)did not seem very towny to me.
Im obviously not set on HS,as he only has one of my votes but epi/Aage/dazza/HS are the only targets i want to consider.
Dakkys push on tim makes good sense to me and if deg were scum he wouldnt have fought the tim lynch as hard as he did.
I think we have 50/50 odds of hitting scum here 2 scum 4 probable targets.
A question to my 3 town reads(dakky,deg,mitch)
Who of those 4 is your number 1 scum choice?
Mitch is guessing dazza but for a reason i cant get behind,while im guessing HS for a reason deg does not care for.
If we can get it together and agree on one of them between us we have the votes to lynch regardless of what everyone else does.
Any of my 4 jump out at you here deg?
How about you dakky?

[degaston]

I can't do the kind of analysis I'd like on a phone, but here's my impressions right now:
aage - leaning scummy, but he was scum in my only other game with him, so that's all I've seen him as.
Mitch - I can't tell from his comments if he was actually claiming doc, or just some kind of protective role. Did we have a 1-shot JOAT doc and a regular doc to begin with?
Daz - slightly scummy - has not contributed much. His reasoning for voting for hotshot seems fuzzy.
Epi - slightly town - didn't contribute much on D2, but I don't think we can afford to go shooting in the dark at this point, and lynching him wouldn't tell us much either way. I'll give him a chance to respond/vote before I decide on him.

I can't quite let go of dakky, either. I've asked him a bunch of questions that he never responded to. I thought he pushed too hard on Tim. His reasoning seemed forced - like he wants us to believe something that he doesn't believe, and then tries to weasel out of it before he gets blamed.

Earlier he said:

If Tim flips town, mitch & aage are probably mafia and I did a wrong read on Tim.

Ignoring how he conveniently gives himself a pass for a bad read, but not aage or mitch, now he's voting for epi? When did aage and mitch suddenly become town?

He's made several contradictory statements, like:

...my vote stands on mitch and can only be changed to Epi right now...

then his next comment was:

...unvote, vote Wing

He's said that if wing flipped town, then I must be also, but then accused me of lying. He tried to get Tim to build a case against me in exchange for removing his vote on Tim, and said mitch was honest for no reason. I can't ignore all of this scummy behavior, so I'll leave my vote where it is for now, but I'll continue to consider other options.

[degaston]

Mitch is guessing dazza but for a reason i cant get behind,while im guessing HS for a reason deg does not care for.
If we can get it together and agree on one of them between us we have the votes to lynch regardless of what everyone else does.

In the interest of building a consensus, after reading through their comments, I'd find it easier to switch to dazza than HS. Even when dazza comments, which is not often, he doesn't seem to be saying much.

[dakky21]

It is funny though, that some folks voted some players.... So far:
player - votes to (including joke votes)
1. epitaph1 | wing endgame mets
2. streaker | Tim dazza
3. wing | Streaker mets
4. endgame | wing dazza Tim hotshot
5. Tim | Streaker madmitch degaston wing madmitch dakky
6. dakky | madmitch wing madmitch tim epi
7. aage | dakky wing Tim
8. mets | epitaph wing
9. hotshot | dakky wing dakky aage
10. dazza | epitaph madmitch hotshot
11. mitch | no vote degaston dazza wing tim dazza
12. degaston | wing dazza dazza madmitch dakky

Epi was on both wing & mets, and including you endgame
So that's my reasoning, and I will try to re read the game once again tomorrow.

[Endgame422]

I suppose its possible that dakky is scum and countered tims claim to get him lynched figuring that his role will be very hard for us to test but his logic and explanation of his case on tim seemed solid to me.
Dakky whos action will you consider directing tonight?

[dakky21]

Dakky whos action will you consider directing tonight?

Probably yours or Epi's, onto you or Epi.
Or maybe mitch doc action onto myself, you never know
hotshot onto degaston also seems like a good action....

If I tell you what action I am going to redirect, that scum won't do the action and my role won't do anything.

[degaston]

Epi was on both wing & mets, and including you endgame
So that's my reasoning, and I will try to re read the game once again tomorrow.

I don't really see the reasoning part. You were in on Wing and Tim - what's your point?

Dakky whos action will you consider directing tonight?

He probably shouldn't answer that - helps scum more than town.
Fp'd by dakky - ok

[Endgame422]

If you dont believe my role(which directing epi to me or me to epi shows you do not) why not push on me then dakky?

[strike wolf]

A little under the weather right now. Day will continue all votes made in the interim will be counted. Will get around to a vote count by tonight

[Epitaph1]

I've been a bit busy lately and this game is moving way faster than Political Mafia. It's a lot easier to post there where there are a few posts a day whereas this game has been doing multiple pages a day.

I'm going to break up my thoughts into multiple posts throughout the next day or so because there is a lot to hit on.

First, Tim screamed town. Screamed it. I seriously do not get the heavy pressure on Tim at all. To reiterate, he claimed unpressured, didn't understand wtf his role was (JOAT isn't super complicated, but it's not the simplest role ever) and made a newbie mistake by killing on N1. And let's admit, of his options, using the kill was definitely the most exciting/tempting. The only person I can kind of understand pushing Tim is dakky (or maybe mitch, see below) because of the coincidence on both of them targeting Mets.

So, while I'm getting a town read on dakky, I'm still leaning scum on Aage. Mostly, this is based on dakky also claiming unpressured thinking that he had caught Tim in a lie. dakky's role will be huge going forward and he definitely should not be telegraphing his next action. I'm sure it will involve where to put mitch's protection, so have fun pondering that one, scumbags.

Aage, on the other hand, should have known better. And what exactly did you not believe about Wing's claim, Aage? Did you ever explain that? You mentioned that you didn't believe something about his claim, but you never explained what it was (unless I missed it).

---

The second person ticking my scumdar based on play is mitch, but my biggest reservation about him is the unpressured doc claim. He could have been leaning on Tim because of the conflicting protective role claims, idk. Given that we're most likely at lylo at this point (assuming 3 scum), I'm not inclined to make mitch the lynch today unless something else develops with him.

---

We've had a LOT of claims already town.

Endgame - Mayor
Mitch - Doctor
Dakky - alternator

If we pressure someone who is not in these three, that will be 4 claims--or half of the players. We might as well mass claim by that point. Which makes me wonder, should we just go to night? We'll still be at lylo tomorrow, but we'll have 1 more night to use our actions and maybe get some better intel. It's only D2, so we really haven't developed a ton of evidence at this point. That ship might have sailed, but it's something to think about.

---

Reads:

Leaning town: dakky, mitch, deg
Leaning scum: Aage
Not sure: Endgame (claim could go either way), daz, HS

I have to re-read more about End, daz, and HS.

[dakky21]

If you dont believe my role(which directing epi to me or me to epi shows you do not) why not push on me then dakky?

If I recall correctly, you didn't said your role yet so there is nothing to believe.
I do have a feeling you and deg are leaning town now, so I will not push you yet.

[dakky21]

Endgame: Re read, found that you claimed town mayor. If you are saying the truth then probably your only action is double vote, so you don't have a night action and redirecting you would do nothing. So someone else to someone else it will be.

[Endgame422]

Epi you are forgetting my double vote.
If i were scum and there were 3 scum it would be 4/4 in votes and already over.
With cop and JOAT dead i dont think no lynch is where we want to go,scum has the advantage at night im pretty sure so im definetly wanting a lynch.
Considering how BOSS streaker was(imagine if he recruited someone N1 that would be 2 anti-town factions with kill ability)im thinking scum is probably just a pair.
The few of you who are still hidden on roles may as well hold them until tomorrow,with multiple players having the same name(first foundationer)its pretty irrelevant what names are.

[HotShot53]

My quick overall reads of those still alive:

1. Degaston - has seemed town to me, and I like his reads, so I'm leaning town
4. Dazza - Has been the least active I believe, and his posts haven't really said much. Didn't like his reason for voting me, but that might be a bit of OMGUS too. But out of the remaining people, he'd be my second scum suspect.
5. Endgame - claimed the secret vote, and hasn't been counterclaimed. While possible this is a scum role, less likely for a scum to claim it, so I'll lean town.
6. Dakky - Claimed redirector, which is why he thought streaker killed mets instead of tim. Makes some sense from his perspective, but he should have realized both could be true. Neutral feeling, but probably town and I just don't like how he played.
8. Hotshot - me, so of course town
10. Aage - I don't like how he piled on the tim case, and hasn't really done much else. Also encouraged someone to hammer wing day 1, which mitch complied by doing the next post. My top scum suspect.
11. Madmitch - claimed a protective role of some kind, maybe doc. Normal craziness and hammered wing earlier than he should have day 1, but seems to be trying mostly. Probably town
12. Epitaph - Hasn't been the most active, but I like his recent reads, so I'll lean town for now.

If there is a scum team of 2, my guess is Aage and dazza... not sure who I'd add if there was a third, if we get that far or one of aage and dazza isn't scum, I'll figure it out then.

FP by end

[dakky21]

6. Dakky - Claimed redirector, which is why he thought streaker killed mets instead of tim. Makes some sense from his perspective, but he should have realized both could be true. Neutral feeling, but probably town and I just don't like how he played.

You can consider this an OMGUS post and I really sucked if it was, but I am going to vote you anyway. Not based on the quote above, but for the reasoning of end & dazza. I want this day to end, because no one is talking anything. Your thoughts are appreciated, but from that info we can't make a case.. and it looks like you are aware of that.

unvote, vote hotshot

That is L-2, and with endgame secret vote you will get to L-1 if I counted correctly. If you flip town, it was (almost) a good game.

[HotShot53]

6. Dakky - Claimed redirector, which is why he thought streaker killed mets instead of tim. Makes some sense from his perspective, but he should have realized both could be true. Neutral feeling, but probably town and I just don't like how he played.

You can consider this an OMGUS post and I really sucked if it was, but I am going to vote you anyway. Not based on the quote above, but for the reasoning of end & dazza. I want this day to end, because no one is talking anything. Your thoughts are appreciated, but from that info we can't make a case.. and it looks like you are aware of that.

unvote, vote hotshot

That is L-2, and with endgame secret vote you will get to L-1 if I counted correctly. If you flip town, it was (almost) a good game.

Umm... I'm not trying to make a case on you... I said you're probably town... I think aage and dazza are most likely scum. I (and others) have made a case on aage... what do you think about that case?

[dakky21]

Umm... I'm not trying to make a case on you... I said you're probably town... I think aage and dazza are most likely scum. I (and others) have made a case on aage... what do you think about that case?

I can't have a read on dazza since he posted like 5 posts in 15 pages of this thread.
Aage accepted my reasoning on Tim and I was sure Tim was mafia, so I marked Aage as town. I could be wrong about him, just like I was wrong with Tim.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Madmitch: Fury Toad
BeDazzaed (1)-Madmitch
Dakky Duck (1)-Degaston
Aage against the machine (1) Hotshot
Epiduraltaph
Hotshot to Trot (3)-Dazza, Endgame, Dakky (L-2)

With 8 alive it takes 5 to reach majority. Deadline Saturday at 1215

[Epitaph1]

Epi you are forgetting my double vote.
If i were scum and there were 3 scum it would be 4/4 in votes and already over.
With cop and JOAT dead i dont think no lynch is where we want to go,scum has the advantage at night im pretty sure so im definetly wanting a lynch.
Considering how BOSS streaker was(imagine if he recruited someone N1 that would be 2 anti-town factions with kill ability)im thinking scum is probably just a pair.
The few of you who are still hidden on roles may as well hold them until tomorrow,with multiple players having the same name(first foundationer)its pretty irrelevant what names are.

That's true. Ok. I'm leaning town on Endgame.

Oh snap. I didn't realize the deadline is tomorrow around noon. We have to make a decision quick, people.

---

HS isn't my strongest scum read but he's at L-2. Let's hear it, HS.

[HotShot53]

Ok, I am Han Pritcher-Vanilla Townie. I have no abilities.

[HotShot53]

For as many people as posted suspicions of aage, why isn't anyone else voting for him?

[aage]

I call bullshit. The only VT we've had is a First Foundationer, and my role is also First Foundationer - VT.

The reason people aren't voting me is perhaps because I'm not mafia? Your case against me has no merit, you're just portraying me as the bogeyman and blaming me for Wing's and Tim's death. Well guess what, I was second to vote on both. I'm not solely responsible for their demise.

Since the deadline is apparently today, I will vote Hotshot as well. Even though it's omgus-y, his current crappy case against me + his odd named VT claim make him most likely scum.

[aage]

Just checked, deadline isn't today, my bad. We have another 24 hours.


Deg, I see you online, care to comment on why you're avoiding Hotshot and prefer to lynch Dazza? There is even less of a case against Dazza.

[degaston]

I'm trying to look into what's gone on here. I'll post more in a little bit.