[Beginner] Straight Mafia - TOWN WINS

[DJPatrick]

I'm not calling you out on your role, I'm not 'just' hacking at townsfolk. You are not a confirmed townie because you claim doc. Here is 'just' my case on you, so you can answer it:

Streaker wrote:
-Softclaimed for no reason
-Made sure everyone saw his softclaim
-Wagoned without any kind of contribution
-Layed low saying absolutely nothing until end of day
-Survived the night as claimed doc

Looks to me like he has been given doc as a safe fake claim, I don't see any other reason to come out like that if you are truly town. In the event that a town doc would claim that, he would be up on the barricades leading town as a strong semi-confirmed townie. But he layed very low.


What exactly are you saying here NudieMan besides "let's lynch the doctor"?...No you are NOT calling me out because you cannot,,,
Don't know what "wagoned" means exactly, perhaps you would like to explain as the Mafia Expert "drafted in" to a Beginner game?
"layed low saying absolutely nothing till the end of the day"?...First game and you invited me here so you know it...I actually did post a couple of times, very late, sure...but hey I put my neck on the line much more than many other "beginners"...I didn't hold that against anyone who didn't post/didn't post much but neither did you ...YOU decided that someone who did post and was a maybe threat should be NEXT on the chopping block before other newbie townies go the hang of this...
I've been asked for thoughts on others? really can't say as No one has been rushing in to support the Nudieman but then Mafia wouldn't, would they...get rid of me in the next night and it's obvious that Streaker will go next so his Mafia buddies will be hanging off letting the mud stick...
Survived the night? So did the other townies and so, obviously. did Streaker and his Mafia cohorts...
@ Alladin...you say you now understand Streakers earlier absence but if he took the time to "say this" in a game he was modding why didn't he have the time to say the same here....go back and read his post...
I think I've answered the regurgitated Slander Streaker keeps throwing at me but heym got any questions send them my way...
Streaker...YOU are currently equal leader to get the rope...do YOU claim any role that we Townies should be aware of to spare you...can You???

[the white rose]

I think one problem we face here is that, because Soldier mounted such a poor defence, there were legitimate reasons to vote for him. And, obviously, scum also had a reason to vote for him. So votes for Soldier aren't a strong marker either way - both scum and Town had their reasons to vote Soldier.

Have to agree with this post.

Aladdin does seem to be picking up the game well.

Normally one can pick up clues from a first day lynch but because soldier put up such a poor defence, don't think you could blame anybody for lynching him, and it may well be that scum did not even need to vote for him.

So really no help here.

I must admit, i missed DJPatrick's soft claim, but streaker claiming that as a doc soft claim and then DJ repeating it later to make sure everyone saw it, does not make sense, if DJ wanted to soft claim that hard, he may as well just come out with it and claim doc. So before i can make up my mind i need to ask DJ, was this a soft claim? or has it been misinterpreted?

Its interesting that he was not nk's for that claim, but there are 2 possible reasons for that, one is he could be scum, the other is that scum, like me, missed it on day one. I am reluctant to vote him just now as i do not want to be doing scum's dirty work for them. Now the soft claim is so obvious, surely if he is not lynched he will be NK'd tonight. All I can say is that if i were doc i would certainly not want to claim on day 1, 2 or 3 for that matter, only time i would claim is if forced to or be lynched. Does that make him scum? well no, cos you open yourself up for a counterclaim and a certain lynch or questions are asked when you are not nk'd....therefore i come to the conclusion that either it was a mistake by a noob, or it was a harmless comment that has been misinterpreted.....perhaps dj would care to enlighten us?

Having said that i see streaker's attack on DJ to be legitimate scum hunting and see no reason to suggest it is being scummy.

Still catching up with everyone's posts so may well have more comments to make soon

[the white rose]

The one who really caught my attention is TWR. Voting Tim for not being able to read his posts is crazy and it's a clear signal that TWR is not scumhunting. I wouldn't think too much of it, if it would have been during the joke vote stage, but this was way later. Also this remark looks suspicious to me:

agree with ib, i would be happy to switch my vote to soldier, but will give him till tomorrow to reconsider his position

Echoing IB and saying he would be happy to switch his vote? Moreover, he has hardly contributed. So I also want to hear more from TWR.

I think voting for tim on D1 cos i do not understand his posts is legitimate, i find him no help whatsoever, he may as well be speaking in a foreign language, that does not make him scum, but it does make him a candidtate for a random D1 lynch.

I switched my vote to soldier when it became obvious that he was going to be lynched. This was preferable to a nolynch, and it followed a great reluctance to claim, which reminded me of the dakky lynch in the adventure time game, he turned out to be a D1 scum lynch, so I was looking to repeat it here.

Its true that i have not contributed so much in this game so far. But that is cos I was in 3 games at once. Not something I care to repeat as I find it difficult to give each game enough enthusiasm. But this lack of enthusiasm has got me lynched in one of the 3 games, and i fully expect to be night killed in the other, leaving this as my only active game, further, I have been too busy in real life to give this game the attention it deserves, sure I could have posted one liners and just skim read, but thats not the way i play.

So you can expect much more from me from now on.

[Streaker]

@DJ, maybe you didn't notice, but not all townies survived the night. Yet you, a self-claimed doc, did survive it. Maybe mafia missed your claim, I suppose that is possible.
It does not, however, explain why you first soft-claimed, and then did nothing with it. You draw the noob card on this one. Ok.

Now in your most recent post, you just added the next item for which to lynch you: You are now rolefishing. Asking me if I have a power role is just not helping anyone right now. I could answer it, and 1 of 2 things would happen:

1)I claim something powerfull. I will get NK'd most likely, making my role completely useless.
2)I claim vanilla townie. Now scum will have it easier finding the power roles, because they know I'm not one of those.

Neither helps town, in fact, both help mafia.

---

Everyone, I'm open to listen to other player's cases here. Don't be shy, it's not because I have a very strong scum read on DJ that we only look at him today.

FP'd by rose

[DJPatrick]

"it's not because I have a very strong scum read on DJ"...Hell, NudieMan you've been saying nothing else since your last townie kill///IF you are really Town which you now refuse to claim why have you been going hammer and tong all day to get me killed...I don't know the "wall of silence" between Mafia and the site hosting this but in a Universe far far away I know how you play and I'm seeing it here..back to Mafia...my vote to lynch you stands coz your attacks have NO substance just a lot of bluster and balderdash!

[the white rose]

right, i am now totally caught up.

I have concerns about DJ, and his responses to streaker's allegations.

In particular, DJ, you absolutely must explain your reasons for soft claiming....was it a mistake? is it a misinterpretation? Attacking streaker for attacking you will not save you from the rope, you need to defend yourself, soldier did not and look what happened to him

f/p'd by dj, observe you are still attacking streaker and not giving any explanation as to your claim.

i see you are online, will give you time to consider your options, but right now you have become my number one suspect, not because of your soft claim, but because you continue to ignore requests for an explanation.....THIS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY GET YOU LYNCHED

[rizky_biznezz]

I dont have time to go thru everything right now but at the moment Im still undecided... Although streakers case on DJ is the strongest case we have had so I'm kind of inclined to go with it.. If DJ flips town well then it leaves streaker wide open for us to investigate if he flips scum then yay we got one and we can still consider streak a suspect..

Might change my mind once I have had chance to review all the new posts properly

Fpd by DJ

And now rose lol..

[DJPatrick]

@ whiterose and risky...fark ...this is getting really interesting....soft claiming? don't know what that means,,,am i stupid at thisa? prob....attackiing Streaker aka Nudieman because he keeps attacking me after I claimed? well, hey, check my first game on-line AND Streaker was the one who invited me here...sure if I was scum I'd be getting a lot of help from him but I'm not and the fact that He knows I know fark all bout this and attacks me after the sub-cop gets killed suggests to me he's just getting his shit in one pile...He's the subject matter expert...not trying to play and re-play the noob card here but everything he's "loosely" accusing me of could just be down to the fact I'm just trying to work out what's happenning while under attack from someone who's totally in control...

[Streaker]

"it's not because I have a very strong scum read on DJ"...Hell, NudieMan you've been saying nothing else since your last townie kill///IF you are really Town which you now refuse to claim why have you been going hammer and tong all day to get me killed...I don't know the "wall of silence" between Mafia and the site hosting this but in a Universe far far away I know how you play and I'm seeing it here..back to Mafia...my vote to lynch you stands coz your attacks have NO substance just a lot of bluster and balderdash!

There is plenty of substance in my attack on you, but you are misinterpreting what I am doing. I'm not 'trying to get you killed', I'm trying to have a discussion with you. I started it, and it continues with you explaining your actions. It's how mafia is played. If your responses are not what I want to hear, I will continue to try and get you lynched.

I refuse to claim i'm town according to you? Ok, I hereby claim I am town. Now please please please respond to my questions, so we can move on.

I also invite you to make a case on me (or anyone else that you find suspect) that is more then 'OMG HE VOTED ME WITHOUT GOOD REASON HE MUST BE SCUM' (which isn't even true).

---

Fastposted by DJ.

Ok. Softclaiming means that you 'give a clue or hint' about your role and/or power. It's considered bad play for town to do, because it gives little to no help to town and much help to mafia. You are new at this, and I have seen new players jump to claiming prematurely before.
Yes, I invited you to play this game, but that has nothing to do with me helping or attacking you. I attack what I find suspicious. If any other player had done all what you did, they would be getting the heat as well. Experience or not.

The worst you could do is simply ignoring what is being said (like you continuously did). Simply answering the matter at hand would have probably gotten you off the hook.

DJ, why did you want a claim from me? How would that help you (or anyone else) in finding scum?
And one more thing, if you ignore me and my push on you, who is your top suspect to be mafia in this game?

[Streaker]

On a side note, I am liking Alladinsane and rose (town read), bos got an extra town point with her summary post bringing her up to neutral slight town read.

Got a bad vibe from Tim and mitch for their lack of input around the discussion I am generating (and failing to come up with anything themselves). They seem to enjoy the way discussion is going without adding to it, reeks of scum.
Ragian same story only I think he really might be afk instead of scummarining.

[DJPatrick]

scummarining?
Really, Nudie man...Given your experience at this game...I find it hard to believe that you keep posting in a Beginners game with this sort of cliched in-talk except if it is to sway the so far little/non-posters into believing you are on top of this game...really, Mate...I know you are a good strategist so if you were really trying to get townies onside then you would be talking to us in easy to pick up language...if you really wanted the power why didn't you join from the start rather than have a proxy noob in then out for you? Sheesh...

[the white rose]

DJ, I am being more patient with you cos you are new to this game but you must answer this point

you said

dID two ppps already contact me to telll me what to put on my first post? Am I the best hope Townies have to stay alive during their nights?,,,just being a noob doesn't mean I'm dead on my feet before the first vote...I'm one more for Hyprocites than Hyberbolies (spl?)...other Hypocrites pls refrain!!!

Are you the best hope townies have to stay alive? if so why?.....explain please why did you say this. Do not skirt around the question, it contains no fancy mafia terms like soft claim, its a direct question and it needs a direct answer. Failure to answer will get you lynched, or at least i will join streaker and vote for you to be lynched, i am sure others will do the same. Now to save yourself please explain this comment.

[Streaker]

scummarining?
Really, Nudie man...Given your experience at this game...I find it hard to believe that you keep posting in a Beginners game with this sort of cliched in-talk except if it is to sway the so far little/non-posters into believing you are on top of this game...really, Mate...I know you are a good strategist so if you were really trying to get townies onside then you would be talking to us in easy to pick up language...if you really wanted the power why didn't you join from the start rather than have a proxy noob in then out for you? Sheesh...

You will learn the game a lot faster if I do this. You can always ask what something means, an answer will be given in 'newbie terms' to those who ask. I signed up as a reserve so the 'newer' players could play. I substituted for someone who couldn't continue the game. You are now using this as a case against me?

If a player is not posting for a long time, he is considered to be 'submerged' or 'submarining', aka laying low.
When it's not due to rl issues, it's considered scummy to do this. It's a bastard word coming from scum and submarining (anyone care to prove me wrong here, it's how I see it).

But once again you fail to adress the very simple questions I ask you... The first 5 times you can play the newb card, but I mean come on, how many times does one have to ask to answer a couple questions here...

FP'd by rose

[DJPatrick]

Read the game Chat Nudie Man...I have answered your "lynching" questions and even asked at the time if any one had any probs with my answers to them then post...YOU just keep going ROUND and ROUND and ROUND in your usual MAFIOSO way...give it a rest, you are just embarrassing yourself with your one eyes aggression...So...I ask YOU who do YOU think is Mafia besides your accusation against me...YOU, as the expert, please tell us who else you will call out in future?

[Streaker]

Read the game Chat Nudie Man...I have answered your "lynching" questions and even asked at the time if any one had any probs with my answers to them then post...YOU just keep going ROUND and ROUND and ROUND in your usual MAFIOSO way...give it a rest, you are just embarrassing yourself with your one eyes aggression...So...I ask YOU who do YOU think is Mafia besides your accusation against me...YOU, as the expert, please tell us who else you will call out in future?

Are you even reading what I am writing? Because clearly you are not...

This is a quote I wrote just a few posts ago...

On a side note, I am liking Alladinsane and rose (town read), bos got an extra town point with her summary post bringing her up to neutral slight town read.

Got a bad vibe from Tim and mitch for their lack of input around the discussion I am generating (and failing to come up with anything themselves). They seem to enjoy the way discussion is going without adding to it, reeks of scum.
Ragian same story only I think he really might be afk instead of scummarining.

[the white rose]

Read the game Chat Nudie Man...I have answered your "lynching" questions and even asked at the time if any one had any probs with my answers to them then post...YOU just keep going ROUND and ROUND and ROUND in your usual MAFIOSO way...give it a rest, you are just embarrassing yourself with your one eyes aggression...So...I ask YOU who do YOU think is Mafia besides your accusation against me...YOU, as the expert, please tell us who else you will call out in future?

OK DJ you have been given the opportunity to answer my direct question to you, you choose to ignore it and instead get abusive to streaker.

Please remember, we are all friends here playing a game we enjoy, its not real life, streaker is not trying to kill you or screw your wife, he is playing a game thats all. Therefore abuse is really not needed.

For your refusal to answer my direct question vote PJpatirck, i would consider unvoting should you answer my question from my previous post.....but only if you answer it.

[AladdinSane]

Okay, some current thoughts.

1. We got a backup cop (IB). That, and the fact this is a noob game, suggests that Epi didn't give us very difficult conditions. It therefore seems likely there are just 2 Mafiosi.

2. If I am understanding the game correctly, the Town Cop had a chance during N1 to investigate someone. We should expect to see a strong indication of the result of the investigation sometime during D2, probably earlier rather than later (assuming the Cop doesn't get NKed). A strong indication either that someone is scum or that they are Town. This might already have happened.

Bos - I'm getting a Town vibe, mainly because Bos's posts seem to be logically thought out and helpful.

DJP - Two possibilities, as I see it. Either DJP is Town but, like Soldier, not good at appearing Town OR he is scum. As I posted earlier, if he is scum, he might well be in league with Streaker. At any rate, he is not a Town frontrunner in terms of useful scum-hunting, so I'm leaning toward a DJP vote. More on that later in this post.

Mitch - Still neutral, although his obsession with Tim makes him look a little scummy to me, since I don't see a solid case against TIm yet.

RB - As with Bos, I'm leaning toward Town here because RBs analyzes seem fairly logical and helpful.

Streaker - Either Streaker is what he appears to be, solid Town leader - or he is scum playing a deep game. I've already posted my thoughts on that. No solid conclusion yet, but I def get a gut feeling that Streak is playing us.

Tim - The obscurity of some of Tim's posts has been the subject of discussion. Obscurity might be scummy - a way of looking like he is trying to help without actually helping. On the other hand, it might just be the way TIm writes. Not everybody writes with clarity. I'm a little bit suspicious, because sometimes TIm can be quite lucid, as when he explained the reasons for a D1 lynch. Neutral for now.

TWR - I was starting to become suspicious of TWR because he was being a little quiet for my liking. However, his recent posts have allayed my suspicions somewhat, so neutral for now.

Suggested strategy: Lynch DJP on D2, and urge the Cop to investigate Streaker during N2. If DJP flips Town and/or the Cop implicates Streaker, Streaker has to go on D3. Also, if the Cop is NK'ed on N2, Streaker has to go on D3.

I'll refrain from formally voting for DJP until others have had a chance to comment on the above.

[AladdinSane]

When reading the last part of the day, I thought that Alladin was on to something, but there is one part that bothers me...

I would also think that that there are 2 mafiosos in this game, 3 would be an overkill, unless Town has a huge amount of Power Roles, which is not completely unlikely with what we have seen so far, but I don't know a whole lot about game balance.

Assuming there are only 2 mafiosos, it would require A LOT from the surviving mafioso and I am quite sure that it would end in a win for Town. Since we know about the backup Cop, most likely another Cop and a Doc, I would expect mafia to be pretty careful and I don't think they would throw each other under the bus early.

Yes, I was thinking that was problematic for my theory too. But consider this: I agree with you that there are probably 2 Mafiosi. That means currently 6 Town and 2 scum. if we go along with the plot I outlined and lynch DJP (scum, according to the theory), that leaves 6 Town and 1 scum (Streaker, according to this theory). Then Streak can make a NK (assuming the Doc is not effective), leaving 5 Town and 1 scum. On D3, Streaker has strong cred because he was foremost in nailing DJP, who flipped scum. This might deter people from voting him on D3, so another Town might get lynched. That would leave 4 Town and 1 scum. That's 1/5 odds, same as the 2/10 odds we started with. So I don't agree that it would require as much from Streaker as you think, nor that it would make a Town win "quite sure".

[AladdinSane]

Ragian same story only I think he really might be afk instead of scummarining.

What's this about? Didn't you replace Rag, Streaker?

[Streaker]

Or, we move on from DJ to another case and see what happens there. Deadline is a good number of days away, and we can get much more information before lynching anyone. If the next case doesn't turn up something good, we have a good lynch on DJ. I'm fine with having a cop check me out.

This is why I asked DJ to come up with a case of his own. It would prove vital information if we were to lynch him.

fp'd by Ala

woops, yes that is right. I went through all posts made on D2, and scratched out names that posted. Ragian is still in the player list in the opening post and didn't stop to think about that.

Thanks for pointing that out, now you can count on Mitch and Tim being my 2 alternatives/scumpartners to DJ in my list. There is no contribution or hardly any opinion on what is being said. They seem happy letting us go ahead...

[AladdinSane]

Incidentally, one recent development that is making me even more suspicious of Streaker is that he has gone on record as saying it would be no good for Town were he to claim, as DJP has demanded, since it would either identify him as having a Power Role, or it would narrow the field for scum to find the Power Roles.

YET, on D1 he was pressing Soldier to claim. Surely the same logic applied on D1 as on D2?

[Streaker]

Incidentally, one recent development that is making me even more suspicious of Streaker is that he has gone on record as saying it would be no good for Town were he to claim, as DJP has demanded, since it would either identify him as having a Power Role, or it would narrow the field for scum to find the Power Roles.

YET, on D1 he was pressing Soldier to claim. Surely the same logic applied on D1 as on D2?

There is a difference between claiming when you are on the verge of being lynched, or claiming without pressure on you.
If I do what DJ suggested, we should all just claim at the start of D1 and be done with it. A claim is something like a last resort, and quite often a scum will be caught fake claiming under pressure.

Actually, under some conditions it's actually beneficial for a mass claim to happen (where everyone claims at the same time). Not here and now though.

[Streaker]

unvote mitch
vote soldier some prolly gonna say oh well this is jsut because mitch asked blah blah blah some might say this is me wanting to fast lynched but hell i almost got fast lynched while i slept....... hes L-1 im L-2 now ill go ahead and claim im VT

You vote soldier, as a return favour because YOU almost got fast lynched? Did you see anything else on him that was scummy?

This was bos on D1, already suspicious of DJ:

You are being very defensive DJ. Looks to me as if people are only giving you some friendly advice. The fact that you are a noob in itself doesn't make you a target. If you keep using the 'I am a noob card' without actually playing and trying to catch the bad guys that will make you suspicious, at least to me.

[AladdinSane]

There is a difference between claiming when you are on the verge of being lynched, or claiming without pressure on you.
If I do what DJ suggested, we should all just claim at the start of D1 and be done with it. A claim is something like a last resort, and quite often a scum will be caught fake claiming under pressure.

Okay, this actually checks out. At the time you called on Soldier to claim, he had 5 votes against him, so he was def under pressure. You, on the other hand, only have DJ's vote against you, and that could well be merely a tit-for-tat vote.

So, okay, you have explained this point satisfactorily, imo.

[Streaker]

It's also why I consider DJ's claim of doc so scummy. When you are pressured, and you are the doc, you can claim doc when at L-2 for example, and save yourself from being mislynched. You do this AFTER you have depleted anything you might say to stop the lynch on you, as it gives mafia the opportunity to then nightkill a townie with a power role. And make no mistake, doctor is in the 'top 2' roles to kill as mafia (together with cop).

It IS entirely possible that he triggered his claim too soon as a 'newbie' townie, granted. But I would have expected mafia to nightkill him for it. A kill on the doc is better then a guess-lynch on a random townie who might be the cop. It's still a role that is capable of blocking mafia kill, setting them back an entire phase.
It IS also possible that mafia missed that claim, though I consider that unlikely. This is why I consider it scummy as well that he survived the night.
That is why I dug deeper, and added several points to my case on DJ, like his inactivity after his vote, and his lack of contribution while voting.

Am I sure DJ is scum? No. It is however the best I could come up with when I reread the entire game, and when I made my case I was not 'dead set' on lynching him. I wanted to get a discussion going, and from what I have read (or, not read) is that Tim and Mitch seem awfully content on letting us bicker and fight over it while staying low (scummarining).