[INTERMEDIATE]Enemy of My Enemy - Archive please

[madmitch]

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all even you Dakky ,be safe guys and have a good holiday

[Ragian]

Aye. Merry Yule, people.

[dakky21]

Voting a confirmed scum today will lead to 2 town kills tonight... tomorrow another 2 town kills because scum will agree on who to kill even if it is two factions.

How is this not true if we don't lynch the confirmed scum? How will we somehow, magically, get both in one lynch? I understand that it would be preferable to eliminate one faction ASAP, but our chances don't increase by guessing today. they increase by having another set of investigations.

I don't understand why you don't understand what we are trying to accomplish here.
The idea is to lynch one scum today and another tomorrow, but from the SAME faction, so N3 there is only one pair of scum.

A) Since we know Epi is mafia and LSU is werewolf, correctly guessing scum today, makes it a lot easier tomorrow to write off one whole faction.

B) We don't know if Epi or LSU are Seer or Oracle, they could be goons as well and someone else could be doing investigations.

C) They can lie about investigation as I said before so what is the purpose of it? Investigate town and give results to your mafia partner. Your partner says he got results but lies about them, says someone is mafia while it's not, and town gets lynched because mafia said so.

Lynching confirmed scum today means we will have to guess his partner tomorrow if we mean to kill whole faction.

[Ragian]

How can they lie about the investigation, though? They don't receive the result. Someone else does. If they do it wrongly, we kill them diminishing their chances of winning.

And let me reiterate: I understand perfectly well what you're saying although I wasn't entirely on board to begin with, I just think you're wrong in saying that it's our best shot. I think Wing's suggestion gives us a greater chance of winning.

[dakky21]

How can they lie about the investigation, though? They don't receive the result. Someone else does. If they do it wrongly, we kill them diminishing their chances of winning.

And let me reiterate: I understand perfectly well what you're saying although I wasn't entirely on board to begin with, I just think you're wrong in saying that it's our best shot. I think Wing's suggestion gives us a greater chance of winning.

-The Mafia Seer and Werewolf Oracle can target one player to investigate, and a different character to receive the results. They may not target themselves, but may target their partner to either be investigated or to receive the results.

Oracle/Seer investigates town and gives results to their partner which in turn lies about the results, saying that town is scum. The investigated town will try to defend, but eventually get lynched, only to find out that town killed itself. After 2 town kills tonight, D3 town lynch will mean end for town.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Oracle/Seer investigates town and gives results to their partner which in turn lies about the results, saying that town is scum. The investigated town will try to defend, but eventually get lynched, only to find out that town killed itself. After 2 town kills tonight, D3 town lynch will mean end for town.

The faction that lies about the result for a mislynch ensures that they lose, they would be handing the game to the other non town faction.

Its not 6 vs 4, its 6 vs 2 vs 2.

[dakky21]

Oracle/Seer investigates town and gives results to their partner which in turn lies about the results, saying that town is scum. The investigated town will try to defend, but eventually get lynched, only to find out that town killed itself. After 2 town kills tonight, D3 town lynch will mean end for town.

The faction that lies about the result for a mislynch ensures that they lose, they would be handing the game to the other non town faction.

Its not 6 vs 4, its 6 vs 2 vs 2.

Wing, yes it is 6 vs 2 vs 2 and that means town must kill one faction ASAP in order to win.

Say tonight there are two town kills and we lynch confirmed mafia.
Tomorrow it is 4 vs 1 vs 2
The remaining scum lies about investigation.
Town lynches town.

Now there are few options:
1. one town kill and one scum kill
2. two town kills
3. scum hits scum and vice versa

One town night kill and one scum kill
D4 it is 2 vs 1 vs 2 (or 2vs2 or 2vs1vs1)
lynch the lying bastard
it's 2 vs 1 vs 1 or 2vs1, in either case it is a good game for town as scum will do his NK and end the game in 1v1

Two town kills - town already dead

Scum hits scum, what's the chance of that happening?

[Marashu]

DAILY VOTE COUNT:
LSU: TimWoodbury, madmitch (L-4)
Epitaph1: LSU (L-5)
madmitch: dakky (L-5)
Not Voting: Epitaph1, Ragian, HotShot, mtam, MrBelly, Wing

Deadline is Tuesday, December 29, 1600CCT. With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch. mtamburini has not responded to the prod, so I am looking for someone to replace him

I hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday season, however/whether you choose to celebrate.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Dakky, in both your scenarios the first scum faction, lets call them mafia lied about an investigation result and IMMEDIATELY lose all chance of winning. Now why would they do a thing like that?

[dakky21]

Dakky, in both your scenarios the first scum faction, lets call them mafia lied about an investigation result and IMMEDIATELY lose all chance of winning. Now why would they do a thing like that?

Since we do not know if Epi or Lsu are Seer or Oracle, they can claim they got a result tomorrow, whoever of them survives.
Town will believe because they want each other to kill.
Say you are the Seer. We lynch LSU today.
You inspect town and give results to Epi.
Epi says I am werewolf.
Towns want one faction dead and lynches me, good game town as you lynched another town.
Epi is dead anyway as he is already confirmed scum.
Town still doesn't know who is the Seer and loses the game while mafia can still fight with werewolves.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Why do we trust anything Epi says?

[dakky21]

Why do we trust anything Epi says?

You said yourself, mafia can't win while werewolves are alive, if Epi says he knows who the other WW is... why don't we trust him if no one else reports they got investigation results?
Same for LSU, if we lynch Epi and LSU says he knows who is the other mafia... we don't trust him? Or we do? They want to kill each other, but they can lie as much as they wish.

That's why I said that investigations are not of use for town anymore, as they can be fake and presented by already known scum.
I wouldn't wonder that scum gives results to each other as well - mafia to LSU, werewolves to EPI or whoever is still alive at the moment.

That said, we're back to my case where I say we must lynch non-confirmed scum today and their confirmed partner tomorrow.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Dakky, my first choice of non confirmed anti town lynch is you. And quite a few people share the sentiments.

Still like your plan?

[dakky21]

Dakky, my first choice of non confirmed anti town lynch is you. And quite a few people share the sentiments.

Still like your plan?

You sound so OMGUS... few posts back I said you are LSU's partner, now you say I am your first choice of non confirmed anti town?

I like my plan as long as we lynch non confirmed anti-town, if we mislynch, it's game over for town.
If we lynch confirmed scum today, it's also game over for town.
So the only way where town can win is lynching scum today and not the confirmed one.

If you think I am anti-town after putting so much effort into the plan, try to lynch me.
I still believe you're the one who is not accepting my plan because you're afraid we will hit you or correct scum and have only 1 NK N4.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Hiya Gang!

Now look here, Dakky is partially right, but the logic is still ridiculous. The issue we have right now is that the two anti-town parties are working together much more effectively than we are. Epi doesnt win if we team up with LSU against him. So screw Epi, hes played well but his game is over NOW.

LSU I offer you a parley on behalf of town. You say that you are the oracle and can undertake investigations. Can you please kill Mitch tonight and investigate Dakky please. (I havent put it past Epi to be so blatant with wifom). In return we will not lynch you today or tomorrow. As you are well aware we have no night powers to play tricks on this bargain.

Are you in? This allows you and your partner a shot at the end game, its win win.

Lynching someone who is not 100% confirmed non-town IS NOT going to help us. We lynch one of Epi or LSU today. No ifs no buts.

My first post in the game. Nothing OMGUS here. I dont like your plan. Notice how the two confirmed anti town arent objecting to your plan. Hotshot, Ragian and Mitch all agree with my plan albeit Mitch objects to the LSU nk'ing Mitch bit understandably.

All we await is LSU to post in response, or Epi to try and counter negotiate

[Epitaph1]

I like dakky's plan a lot. Today, we'll lynch LSU. I'm the seer and you guys tell me whom to investigate and to whom to give the result and then we'll go from there tomorrow.

On behalf of the mafia, happy holidays and we are at your service. Give me the names and let's get this show on the road.

Deadline is in 5 hours.

[dakky21]

I like dakky's plan a lot. Today, we'll lynch LSU. I'm the seer and you guys tell me whom to investigate and to whom to give the result and then we'll go from there tomorrow.

On behalf of the mafia, happy holidays and we are at your service. Give me the names and let's get this show on the road.

Deadline is in 5 hours.

Deadline is Tuesday, December 29, 1600CCT and not in 5 hours. So don't rush things, I know you'd like to lynch LSU so you can continue your plans (why would mafia Seer claim being Seer?), but as Wing said, why would we trust you at all?

Hiya Gang!

Now look here, Dakky is partially right, but the logic is still ridiculous. The issue we have right now is that the two anti-town parties are working together much more effectively than we are. Epi doesnt win if we team up with LSU against him. So screw Epi, hes played well but his game is over NOW.

LSU I offer you a parley on behalf of town. You say that you are the oracle and can undertake investigations. Can you please kill Mitch tonight and investigate Dakky please. (I havent put it past Epi to be so blatant with wifom). In return we will not lynch you today or tomorrow. As you are well aware we have no night powers to play tricks on this bargain.

Are you in? This allows you and your partner a shot at the end game, its win win.

Lynching someone who is not 100% confirmed non-town IS NOT going to help us. We lynch one of Epi or LSU today. No ifs no buts.

My first post in the game. Nothing OMGUS here. I dont like your plan. Notice how the two confirmed anti town arent objecting to your plan. Hotshot, Ragian and Mitch all agree with my plan albeit Mitch objects to the LSU nk'ing Mitch bit understandably.

All we await is LSU to post in response, or Epi to try and counter negotiate

I'm not speaking about your first post, I'm speaking about me linking you to LSU and you saying "I'm your first anti-town choice"... thats OMGUS from what I know...

[dakky21]

My first post in the game. Nothing OMGUS here. I dont like your plan. Notice how the two confirmed anti town arent objecting to your plan. Hotshot, Ragian and Mitch all agree with my plan albeit Mitch objects to the LSU nk'ing Mitch bit understandably.

EBWOP

They're not objecting to my plan because there is higher possibility of mislynch than a correct lynch.
BUT if we hit the correct non-confirmed scum today, it gives us pretty much bigger chances to win. You need to risk sometimes.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Do you mean my plan? In your case I'd suggest Ragian and Hotshot as possible werewolf partners. Belly and Mtam were made likely town by yourself and LSU, I trust Tim because of the double investigation results. Mitch and Dakky to me are the scummier players, but I see them as mafia aligned. This leaves me with two options, which I believe could be werewolves. Nightkill hotshot, investigate Rage.

To be honest, this is why I prefer lynching you (Epi) because I am more certain about mafia partners.

Fp'd by Dakky. You OMGUS'd me. That being my first post is important because it shows the timeline. I identify you and mitch as likely partners of Epi, both of you have subsequently asked me to be lynched or suggested I am LSU's partner. You are correct that is the very definition of OMGUS, but it wasnt me who did it.

As a side, it is in our interest to lynch regular goon before seer, as one provides benefit to town, the other does not. We have no idea if they both are really seer and oracle or not.

Fp'd by Dakky again. No idea what your point is there, can you be clearer?

[LSU Tiger Josh]

LSU I offer you a parley on behalf of town. You say that you are the oracle and can undertake investigations. Can you please kill Mitch tonight and investigate Dakky please. (I havent put it past Epi to be so blatant with wifom). In return we will not lynch you today or tomorrow. As you are well aware we have no night powers to play tricks on this bargain.

Are you in? This allows you and your partner a shot at the end game, its win win.

Lynching someone who is not 100% confirmed non-town IS NOT going to help us. We lynch one of Epi or LSU today. No ifs no buts.

I'm leaning on saying yes to this. I would like my partner, Tim, to weigh in on this as well since it would involve them. Unlike Epi, I won't put a deadline on the town deciding although I would be more than happy to kill off Mitch tonight if that is what the town desires. Tim, I still want you to weigh in on this since it will partially involve you. I will submit to you an investigation as you desire. Merry Christmas everyone. I probably won't be back until tomorrow at some point.

[dakky21]

Just tell me Wing, if we lynch confirmed scum today, who will you lynch tomorrow if investigation says Rage is town? Me?
What did you get from that investigation? How do you know it is true?
What if they investigate each other and give results to the not lynched goon/seer/oracle?

What will town learn after N2? one big NOTHING. And what is the next course of action? Randomly lynch someone or lynch another confirmed scum? Lynch LSU? At that point 3-4 townies are already dead AND town doesn't knows the 2 other scum, and they still have 2 night kills. HOW is that going to help town? I'd rather risk my fate today than wait N4 only to see that town can't win anymore.

Fp'd by LSU who is again trying to bring confusion into town by saying Tim is his partner. Wing can't you see they're confusing us to the maximum, unless you're really someones partner and you're doing it on purpose.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

If hotshot and rage both turn out to be town, then we can reevalute tomorrow with better info and fewer suspects.

I prefer lynching LSU to Epi, but we did learn one thing from his post, he isnt thrilled by my plan, thats useful info. Dont shy from wifom, start fighting back and actually try and get info, your leadership of town has made the entire of town into pathetic players who have given up. Yes its harsh to say, but thats the truth. This is mafia, its not supposed to be easy, gather information any way you can.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

I don't like speaking for others that may be involved. The plan is solid and does give both town and my side an equal shot at winning. I just don't like committing in case my partner doesn't care for it. Either way though that leaning yes, can be a confirmed yes regardless of what my partner may or may not say in the next few days. It is what I had pretty much proposed earlier.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Now to head on down to New Orleans.

[dakky21]

If hotshot and rage both turn out to be town, then we can reevalute tomorrow with better info and fewer suspects.

You didn't answer my question. If we lynch confirmed mafia today, who will we lynch tomorrow? Who is your main candidate and why? And why do you trust Epi to be seer? We can not reevaluate tomorrow with 4 town alive and 3 mafia, out of which, 2 unknown...