[FINISHED] Board Game Mafia: Endgame - Piece of Peace

[rizky_biznezz]

Sorry rage I didn't Google my question either.. Mostly cos I am on my phone and its pretty slow but I will attempt to do that later

[BuJaber]

Tracker picks a person each night to "follow" and finds out who they visit.

Watcher picks one person to watch each night and finds out who visits them.

Thank you

Seriously, try the internet: List of mafia roles.

This post annoys me a bit. I could understand not getting the death miller since I couldn't find any information about that after a swift googling. But not knowing tracker, watcher, and other very normal roles after having played mafia before (and not even trying to google) raises flags for me.

@Mandy, your case on BuJaber is merely him feigning ignorance, yes? Yet, you have incriminating evidence on TWR? Am I understanding this correctly?

Thank you very much.

Actually Mandy's case against me is much stronger, but it feels like confirmation bias to me.

I thought he would have more on TWR actually.. For instance: hasn't anyone else noticed that he made a big show about missing the joke vote, then proceeded to joke vote twice: Tim and Dakky. Finally on page 9, as part of his reason for inactivity he claims he hates the joke phase.

[mandalorian2298]

What is the difference between tracker and watcher, and is there a hunter too?

There's a lot of information here we need to analyze. Mandy and LSU have just roped themselves together for whatever reason. We have to treat them as one. Mandy think what happens if you're wrong about me. Lynching me frees scum up to kill someone else.


Since there's nobody is voting TWR this round and I have at least one person supporting me with this, I Vote Iron Butterfly

Seriously, try the internet: List of mafia roles.

This post annoys me a bit. I could understand not getting the death miller since I couldn't find any information about that after a swift googling. But not knowing tracker, watcher, and other very normal roles after having played mafia before (and not even trying to google) raises flags for me.

@Mandy, your case on BuJaber is merely him feigning ignorance, yes? Yet, you have incriminating evidence on TWR? Am I understanding this correctly?

Like a milking stool, my case against BuJaber rests on three legs ( always wanted to say that )

1st leg: He voted LSU for inactivity while there was a solid Day 1 bandwagon going on on Tim. To me it looked very much as an attempt to split votes.

2nd leg: When I ventured that / should do away with Day deadlines, he objected. Given that Day deadlines can only help you if you want a No Lynch, and that scumm are big fans of No Lynch, this looked scummy to me.

3rd leg: The post on beginning of Day 2 where he asks if Tim and Wing were members of the same Scum group even though one's role says Mafia and the other's says Cult. I find it hard to believe that the guy who was quickest to deduce that I suspect the white rose would miss that.

In general, I think BuJaber is very smart and observant which makes the occasions where he misses the glaringly obvious look suspicious as hell.

As for the white rose, his rambling about Tim being town in previous games looks suspicious as hell, but that's one clue against him the three against BuJaber. Also, if I am right about the white rose, then he is almost certainly Mafia and not the Cult leader. BuJaber is much more likely to be Mafia then Cult too, but his case seems a little bit more open to the possibility of him being Cult (since 3rd clue makes sense in that scenario as well) and I see him as a more dangerous opponent.

@BuJaber I did miss that. Nice catch.
As for the confirmation bias, 1. I am always on a lookout for that in my reasoning and 2. although from the competitive side I wan't you lynched as soon as possible, I have tried to be as tender and as complimentary about my reasons as possible. After all that wooing, I think that the only decent thing for you is to reward my effort with a full confession.

[mandalorian2298]

leaving vote where it is, but mandy you seem to know way to much , fos on you .

The so-called "We don't like no deductionators around this here parts, boy!" fos.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

@ragian It saved wasting the day on whether or not I am cult leader and it did help me figure out for sure why I had mandy in two places including a dead person. In a game of this size, I feel reasonably secure that there is a dr and or watcher that will keep an eye on me being exposed this early while potentially clearing people for town.

[mandalorian2298]

@ragian It saved wasting the day on whether or not I am cult leader and it did help me figure out for sure why I had mandy in two places including a dead person. In a game of this size, I feel reasonably secure that there is a dr and or watcher that will keep an eye on me being exposed this early while potentially clearing people for town.

Agreed, except I would prefer not to impede the Doc's unpredictability in choosing his whom he protects, especially since your claim and my confirmation of it only serves to prove that neither of us is the Cult Leader. As a deterrent against the Cult Leader, the threat of us being Watched should suffice.

I would also like to point out that our dialogue about our N1 actions It does not prove that you, me or both of us are not Mafia. However, I am almost certain that you are NOT a Mafia Tracker since a) I still like the white rose and BuJaber for the remaining mobsters and b) I think that the remaining two mobsters are a Godfather and Silencer or something like that that (presuming that IB is truly pr-ed)

[rizky_biznezz]

I wanted to wait a bit to see everyone's reactions to the nights results but wing may not have been killed by mafia as my armour took a hit last night so technically there should have been 3 kills.. Possible vig hopefully on our side maybe.. Or they have 2 kills.. But it was suggested earlier that wing was killed by mafia because he was close with his reads but it could be unrelated.. Not sure why I was a target though..

[madmitch]

According to WCG Tim , Ragian and Mandy were and are scum .I think Strike , Mets, Rag and Mandy are non-town. All 4 of them after BuJaber for no real reason,3 of them did not or unvoted Tim a confirmed scum.The fourth said he did not mind voting for a scum buddy. also Mandy and LSU have been voting and unvoting each other and now are so called buddies ( cult ? ) Rizky and HS are most likely town. So my vote will stay where it is and town follow my lead.

[Metsfanmax]

All 4 of them after BuJaber for no real reason,

I am not after BuJaber. I don't think a sufficient case has been made that he is scum.

[the white rose]

well i have looked through mandy's posts to ascertain why he has fos on me.

Am I right its because of the joke phase that i appeared to miss?

i missed it cos i was a late replacement for aladdin.

i did make a point of joke voting just in order to post something.

I do hate day 1 cos there is nothing at all to go on and its just guesswork, so i rarely have anything worthwhile to post.

now today is a little bit different.

First i look to see who was defending Tim and find that the most vocal of these was mets.

could mets be tim's scum buddy? had mets been a noob i would have probably looked at voting for him, but wait....would an experienced player defend a scum buddy as publicly as mets did?

We should also be cautious of jumping to conclusions here. Everyone seems to be assuming that scum killed wing after wing killed dakky.

Now, I have never played a game that has a cult in it, am i right in assuming that a cult is like a third team and the object is to kill everyone in the opposing 2 groups that you are not in?

someone tried to kill risky last night too it appears, no reason to disbelieve risky at this stage, so we had 3 attempts last night, one from a town vigilante, one from mafia and one from the cult.

the key is i think to decide who tried to kill risky, that way we can eliminate him from one particular group....is it possible that wing tried to kill rizky and because of his rizky's PR died himself? that would leave dakky as the mafia kill and clear rizky from being cult member, if that did not happen then we must have had 3 seperate kill attempts last night, 1 from the cult, dakky or rizky, and the other 2 from mafia, would mafia have 2 kills? i think not, therefore we have someone else going around killing someone, maybe an sk or a town vig? who would want dakky dead more?

Of course, i may be talking nonsense not having played with cults before

[rizky_biznezz]

I haven't played with cults either so not sure how it works if they have killing powers or whatever I'm gonna Google all that when i get to a comp.... My info wasn't really helpful but i figured it would be better if it was out.. Its mostly going to be speculation at this stage so not expecting anything to come from it but it might be useful to know now before we get into day 3

[mandalorian2298]

According to WCG Tim , Ragian and Mandy were and are scum .I think Strike , Mets, Rag and Mandy are non-town. All 4 of them after BuJaber for no real reason,3 of them did not or unvoted Tim a confirmed scum.The fourth said he did not mind voting for a scum buddy. also Mandy and LSU have been voting and unvoting each other and now are so called buddies ( cult ? ) Rizky and HS are most likely town. So my vote will stay where it is and town follow my lead.

<-------- This smiley is wearing sunglasses because he's blinded by your logic.

I especially like how you managed to point out LSU and myself, the only two people who cannot possibly be Cult, as Cult.

BizzaroFOS Rizky and HS If Mitch says you're town then you must be scum.

[strike wolf]

My main suspicion on Jaber mainly comes from him only voting Tim after his own name was put out there as possible scum in a (more or less) admitted quick lynch attempt. There are other factors but it is difficult to post a full length case with multiple quotes from my phone.

Mandy could be scum. It's unlikely that he would be cult unless LSU is also cult (from game start) or he has a secondary ability as cult leader.

I don't really feel the case against TWR.

So could it be possible that Wing didn't kill Dakky but mafia did for which Wing's secondary ability caused him to be framed and he was the one who shot Rizky? I don't really see the reasoning. Rizky seems town as far as I can tell and he wasn't really on Wing's list either so unless he was switched he doesn't seem like a likely target. However something has struck me as odd about the wording of the scene for a while. I thought I was just reading roo much into the flavor of Wing's denial of the kill and likely still am but it would fit with the alternate scenario.

/: could wing know about his recruitment before he sent in his action?

[BuJaber]

Oh God.. a 3rd kill? It was already difficult enough to figure out who's who.

Maybe if we take it step by step.

It would be ridiculously unbalanced against town if scum had 2 night kills. That's out.
If wing didn't kill dakky, did he try to kill rizky? did he try to kill someone protected by a doctor? did he get recruited the same night and therefore didn't get a chance to use his new role?
If a town vig killed dakky it would have been a terrible waste of ability, therefore that's probably out.
Scum benefits a lot more from killing someone other than dakky. Only cult benefits from killing dakky before he is unalligned; it is much better for them to try and recruit scum. Wing killing dakky is the only scenario that makes sense to me.
Therefore: Is rizky lying just to mess with us? It's a very good lie if he was one of the mafia that killed wing.
If rizky is not lying then town vig could have killed Wing, and scum tried to kill rizky.


LSU, did you visit mandy or strike? I wasn't clear on that. If you visited strike, any info we should know?

Any townie that can confirm some information about me, mandy, or LSU at this stage would be very helpful.
I have decided that mandy going against me at this stage can only mean 2 things: scum who wants to kill 2 people tonight, and he thinks it's easier to get people on his side to lynch me and free his night kill OR town and I seem the most suspicious to him. Figuring out which is a priority.

HotShot is either town or very good at pretending to be.

If someone actually silenced IB... who benefits from that? If it's a lie, why would a townie lie about that? We should think about that PR more.

[Army of GOD]

sorry for not posting earlier, was busy with work recently


anyway, as for hte main cases I've seen thrown out:

BuJaber - not sold on this. The main reasoning it seems like was that he wasn't sure about cult vs mafia when Wing flipped, but I have to admit, I was also confused for a second too (until I realized it said cult). Mandy's case on him seems to be an experience argument ("he's an experienced player and should know better") but since I've never played with BuJaber (or, don't remember playing with him), there's no way I could jump on this

the white rose - however, Mandy makes a very strong case on the white rose. twr makes a joke vote on Tim, which I could see as a scum voting another scum to act like "hey see! I even joke voted him!" Then, twr uses "he's always town" as a reason not to vote Tim, which is a terrible reason not to vote someone


IB - strike's argument (if I read correctly) is that he thinks IB is non-town since a town IB has a history of going after third partiers. I can't really jump on this because despite playing with IB, I don't recall this scenario with him before.


all in all, dakky and Wing were my top two targets D1 and well...they both died. so, yay me?

anyway, I strongly agree with Mandy's arguments on twr, so

vote the white rose

[Army of GOD]

If someone actually silenced IB... who benefits from that? If it's a lie, why would a townie lie about that? We should think about that PR more.

I don't think a townie PR-forcing role would necessarily make sense. I can't remember playing a game where players could "instill" PRs on other players but that definitely seems like a mafia role.

or, IB is playing balls out and is completely lying about the PR to act like he is isn't scum. Either case, I don't think we can learn much from his PR unless there's a watcher who watched IB last night


also, just want to keep track of the claimed roles so far:

LSU - tracker (watched Mandy)
rizky - bulletproof (who took a hit already, so he's essentially vanilla)
Mandy - some non-passive role

am I missing something?

[/]

/: could wing know about his recruitment before he sent in his action?

The recruitment went through after the night ended, so not until day; that and his death went through simultaneously.

Also because of player requests; dead chats are now okay. Wing and whomever else has full permission to invite dead players to chat with other dead players. Do not invite living players into dead chat, pm them about anything related to the game, etc..

Vote Count

BuJaber: (1 vote) mandalorian2298

Metsfanmax: (1 vote) madmitch

Iron Butterfly: (2 votes) HotShot53, BuJaber

HotShot53: (1 vote) Iron Butterfly

the white rose: (1 vote) Army of GOD

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. You have until Sunday April 17th

[strike wolf]

Bu: What makes Hotshot such a strong towe read from you?

[HotShot53]

If someone actually silenced IB... who benefits from that? If it's a lie, why would a townie lie about that? We should think about that PR more.

I don't think a townie PR-forcing role would necessarily make sense. I can't remember playing a game where players could "instill" PRs on other players but that definitely seems like a mafia role.

or, IB is playing balls out and is completely lying about the PR to act like he is isn't scum. Either case, I don't think we can learn much from his PR unless there's a watcher who watched IB last night

As I said before, I doubt that IB is completely silenced, and I think he's just trying to hide and take the day off. Wouldn't be surprised if he's the cult recruiter and trying to stay quiet until he makes his team a bit larger.

A PR giver can be town, 3rd party or scum. I think I've seen it more often as a town role in non-vanilla games where they need extra roles but don't want to unbalance things; it's basically a "fun" role that doesn't really help anyone usually.

The day is running out pretty soon... we need to start concentrating one one person a bit more, and more than half the people haven't voted at all yet...

[Metsfanmax]

If someone actually silenced IB... who benefits from that? If it's a lie, why would a townie lie about that? We should think about that PR more.

I don't think a townie PR-forcing role would necessarily make sense. I can't remember playing a game where players could "instill" PRs on other players but that definitely seems like a mafia role.

or, IB is playing balls out and is completely lying about the PR to act like he is isn't scum. Either case, I don't think we can learn much from his PR unless there's a watcher who watched IB last night

As I said before, I doubt that IB is completely silenced, and I think he's just trying to hide and take the day off. Wouldn't be surprised if he's the cult recruiter and trying to stay quiet until he makes his team a bit larger.

A PR giver can be town, 3rd party or scum. I think I've seen it more often as a town role in non-vanilla games where they need extra roles but don't want to unbalance things; it's basically a "fun" role that doesn't really help anyone usually.

The day is running out pretty soon... we need to start concentrating one one person a bit more, and more than half the people haven't voted at all yet...

vote Hotshot

This is such an obviously strange play that I just have to call it out. IB is an experienced player who always has a lot to say. You think he's just taking a day off? That's absurd. He's drawing far more attention to himself with the PR than he ever would if he just posted a couple times without saying much. You playing this off as scummy is itself the scummiest thing I've seen this game.

[HotShot53]

vote Hotshot

This is such an obviously strange play that I just have to call it out. IB is an experienced player who always has a lot to say. You think he's just taking a day off? That's absurd. He's drawing far more attention to himself with the PR than he ever would if he just posted a couple times without saying much. You playing this off as scummy is itself the scummiest thing I've seen this game.

The only reason he is drawing attention to himself is because I am giving it to him... everyone else was like "oh well, guess he can't post today, we'll talk to him tomorrow"

[Metsfanmax]

vote Hotshot

This is such an obviously strange play that I just have to call it out. IB is an experienced player who always has a lot to say. You think he's just taking a day off? That's absurd. He's drawing far more attention to himself with the PR than he ever would if he just posted a couple times without saying much. You playing this off as scummy is itself the scummiest thing I've seen this game.

The only reason he is drawing attention to himself is because I am giving it to him... everyone else was like "oh well, guess he can't post today, we'll talk to him tomorrow"

And what exactly do you think his end game is for this? If he can't talk tomorrow he's going to have a lot of pressure on him, and if he can, he's going to have to explain what happened; no one is going to forget that this happened come D3. Pushing it now serves no one any good.

[rizky_biznezz]

I agree I think wing killed dakky.. Dakky could have worked for mafia plus they already knew who he was.. Think they would have gone looking for one of our important roles..
But deadline isnt far away so at this stage that's not important..

@TWR ur first post back didn't really tell us anything u only mentioned mets but even that was pretty neutral..

@sausage anything to add?

I will be back later to vote

Fpd by mets

[BuJaber]

Bu: What makes Hotshot such a strong towe read from you?

I don't know how he normally plays, so if you have prior experience that helps you build the case against him that might be why we're seeing him differently.

To me he just seems so undecided like he he has no clue about anything. Even when he agrees that someone might be scum it still kind of passive, like he's afraid of making a mistake. He was one of the first people to vote for Tim, which could be just an act, but if he's fellow scum would he really vote against him when Tim had 3 votes only? Maybe he didn't have a strong opinion, but this does prove that he is capable of trusting someone's read and going with the votes. Unlike other's who gave a lot of reasons why not to vote for Tim.
He's starting to become more involved also which could indicate that he had valid excuses for missing out on so much early on.
Also in more than one occasion he offered a defense for people, which again doesn't prove anything, but he seems to do it for everyone, not just one or two people, so it reads like someone who wants the truth to come out, and wants to prevent a townie getting lynched.
If I picked up on something else I don't remember. These are pretty much the main reasons why I'm leaning towards vanilla townie for Hotshot. If you or anyone else wants to offer an opposing view, I'm happy to hear it.

[BuJaber]

Excuse all the typos in the above post.

Just want to add that while I don't have a strong read on Metsfan (I've been going back and forth a few times) I appreciate the way he plays. He pounces on people if they say anything that doesn't sit right with him, no matter how small.