Was 9/11 just a plot by the U.S. government

Iz Man · Post by **Iz Man** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:33 pm

ritz627 wrote: Its kind of funny, knowing that you and Iz man are both huge bushies and supporters of the War in Iraq, I would say that you are being sarcastic. For once you guys, you have me really laughing.

I'm a Bushie?

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:36 pm

This is absouletly nuts. I feel like I'm in an alternate universe. I agree 100% with Guiscard and Backglass, and Jay is coming across like a complete and utter fool. Tell me Jay, you CAN'T be serious. You MUST be joking! This doesn't fit at all with any of your other beliefs! It just... it's baffling.

And this is great proof that Guiscard and Backglass and I could actually have a rationale discussion together. We may never agree on God and religion (I'm a Christian), but at least we can sensibly discuss things, and totally debunk utter nonsense like this conspiracy theory.

I have no more words for this. Come on, even people who hate Bush should be able to stand back and say, "while I think he's an idiot, this is just impossible."

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:39 pm

Iz Man wrote:
ritz627 wrote: Its kind of funny, knowing that you and Iz man are both huge bushies and supporters of the War in Iraq, I would say that you are being sarcastic. For once you guys, you have me really laughing.
I'm a Bushie?

Because it fits the template, Iz.

Caeli · Post by **Caeli** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:02 am

Of course 9/11 wasn't a government set up!...

...have you never seen south park?! They just want everyone to THINK it was a set up!

lol

got tonkaed · Post by **got tonkaed** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:14 am

Template at things aside, i would have assumed from reading a bit of IZ's work that he supported bush to a greater degree than the average forum user on this site....

as always if we are warning about stereotyping we must warn against the counterattack from those who claimed ot always be stereotyped.

Caeli · Post by **Caeli** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:37 am

got tonkaed wrote:as always if we are warning about stereotyping we must warn against the counterattack from those who claimed to always be stereotyped.

Woah, that's like Yoda stuff right there.

Like, there is no spoon, but from the spoons perspective. lol

Iz Man · Post by **Iz Man** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:02 am

got tonkaed wrote:i would have assumed from reading a bit of IZ's work that he supported bush to a greater degree than the average forum user on this site....

I would venture to say you're correct when comparing me to the "average CC user".
However, I would like to make a point for the record.
I did vote for Bush, yes; but I am by far a complete supporter of his. I happen to be a registered "No-Party Affiliation".
First of all, look at what the options that were running against him. Ugh (but that's another thread).
I think his tax cuts were a big reason the economy has been in such a boom over the past several years. Especially given the recession he inherited, coupled with 9-11.
His best moment, IMO, was when he stood on top of the rubble after 9-11, and he did well in Afghanistan. I also think he really believes he is doing the right thing and makes his decisions based on conviction. That is an admirable trait, and one you want in a President. I think it is absurd & foolish to think he is a total "dumbass who wants control of the world", or some similar uneducated statement.

Given all this, I'll admit he has really pissed me off.

For some reason, and I don't know why, from the beginning of his Presidency, he (and his staff) have not been able to communicate well with the American people at all. He has not been able to articulate his rationale, policies, and point of view well at all.
He spends like (as I like to say) a drunken liberal. Very far from a fiscal conservative. The answer to problems (education is a prime example) is not to throw more money at it. His spending is out of control.
While I believe we needed to go into Iraq, the way the war has been fought since Saddam's "outing" has been atrocious. Without debating the war now, I'll just say he has not fought it "properly". Most of which lies on the huge mistake of actually believing the Iraqi people would want to stick up for themselves. That has not happened, a huge oversight.
Finally, my biggest problem with Bush is his utter lack of understanding on how important securing our border and fighting illegal immigration is. Our border is porous as cheesecloth and it needs to be fixed. He absolutely refuses to do anything about it; and this "Amnesty Bill" (that's what it is) being put forth is a complete sham.

Do I like Bush? Yeah, I think he's a decent man with the toughest job in the world.
Do I think he can do no wrong? No.

Kugelblitz22 · Post by **Kugelblitz22** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:49 am

Iz Man wrote:
got tonkaed wrote: I think his tax cuts were a big reason the economy has been in such a boom over the past several years.

What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy?

How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:56 am

Kugelblitz22 wrote: What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy?

How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?

Yet another who has fallen victim to "class warfare".

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:29 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Kugelblitz22 wrote: What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy?

How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?

Yet another who has fallen victim to "class warfare".

Yeah, "class warfare" is imaginary.

That's why my family can't afford health insurance, it's all in our heads.

Anarchist · Post by **Anarchist** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:31 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Kugelblitz22 wrote: What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy?

How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?

Yet another who has fallen victim to "class warfare".

Your right Jay, everything is split right down the middle.

I think there are as many terrorists in America as there are in the middle east. I think 9/11 was a dream come true for the administration. I dont believe they did, but am unconvinced that they tried to stop it.
I am uninterested in repeating things argued before, so I will leave it at that.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:19 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Yet another who has fallen victim to "class warfare".

<cricket....cricket....>

Iz Man · Post by **Iz Man** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:46 pm

Kugelblitz22 wrote: What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy?

How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?

Certainly not polling data.
At the risk of this thread plummeting down an economic trail, let me point out a few things:
Growth of the GDP typically is the "barometer" the health of an economy. With 1% being "bad", 3% good, and 4% excellent. After starting off with a GDP growth rate of less than 1% in 2001 (inherited recession coupled with 9-11), the growth rate of the GDP has steadily increased to ~3.4%, with a peak so far in 2005 of 4.4%.
The unemployment rate in the U.S. is currently 4.5%, virtual full employment.
Your comment concerning the top 1% of wage earners is a typical class envy statement. That top 1% pay 36.89% of all taxes collected. The top 5% pay 57.13% !
The top 50% of wage earners pay 86.58% of the total tax bill.
These evil rich people support the economy.

The U.S. is by far an impoverished country.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

Kugelblitz22 wrote:What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy? How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?

I'm doing ok, thanks for asking. By the way, do you happen to have any GREY POUPON?

Iz Man · Post by **Iz Man** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:11 pm

luns101 wrote:
Kugelblitz22 wrote:What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy? How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?
I'm doing ok, thanks for asking. By the way, do you happen to have any GREY POUPON?

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:17 pm

luns101 wrote:
Kugelblitz22 wrote:What criteria are you using to determine the health of the economy? How the richest 1% are doing or the rest of us?
I'm doing ok, thanks for asking. By the way, do you happen to have any GREY POUPON?

Luns101, are you putting Grey Poupon on a WEINER?

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:19 pm

got tonkaed wrote:as always if we are warning about stereotyping we must warn against the counterattack from those who claimed ot always be stereotyped.

I really don't think you're fairly applying that standard. To point it out is not wrong...would you have people just simply sit by and take it without saying anything? Of course I would agree with you that nobody should stereotype (with the exception of stereotyping Serbia and his pro-Detroit sports agenda), but I think it's leveled more at those on the right here at CC than those on the left.

Stop countering my counter-attacks!

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:22 pm

Backglass wrote:Luns101, are you putting Grey Poupon on a WEINER?

I hope this is what you had in mind, Backglass!

BTW, my friends call me luns...and you may as well. Luns101 just sounds so formal.

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:23 pm

jay_a2j wrote:I don't care if it was a 10,000 ton aircraft. Once the building started "collapsing" it went down in a free fall. That means there was no resistance from the unaffected floors beneath the crash site! The collapse would have "slowed down" some when the collapsing floors met the solid floors but this never happened. The towers were brought down "demolition style", into their own footprint. Denial helps us deal with these facts as it is hard to imagine why the government would do this. Which is why you have such mass acceptance of the "reason" the towers came down. (the faulty design is a new one for me...never heard that before) Whatever puts your mind at ease.

If the towers fell in free fall, how come the debris is lower then the point of collapse on the tower? That means the debris has fallen futher then the tower, which means the tower is not in free fall, because the debris is in free fall and has travelled futher.

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:33 pm

Caeli wrote:Of course 9/11 wasn't a government set up!...

...have you never seen south park?! They just want everyone to THINK it was a set up!

lol

I don't watch South Park at all, though I did see this episode... and it was really funny!

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:35 pm

luns101 wrote:
got tonkaed wrote:as always if we are warning about stereotyping we must warn against the counterattack from those who claimed ot always be stereotyped.
I really don't think you're fairly applying that standard. To point it out is not wrong...would you have people just simply sit by and take it without saying anything? Of course I would agree with you that nobody should stereotype (with the exception of stereotyping Serbia and his pro-Detroit sports agenda), but I think it's leveled more at those on the right here at CC than those on the left.

Stop countering my counter-attacks!

Just as long as you remember to include my pro-U of Michigan sports agenda with my pro-Detroit sports agenda, then we're all good.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:09 pm

Serbia wrote:Just as long as you remember to include my pro-U of Michigan sports agenda with my pro-Detroit sports agenda, then we're all good.

I can almost hear you warming up your voice for HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:48 pm

It's not a great voice, but it can belt it out, for sure!

ritz627 · Post by **ritz627** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:22 pm

Iz Man wrote:
ritz627 wrote: Its kind of funny, knowing that you and Iz man are both huge bushies and supporters of the War in Iraq, I would say that you are being sarcastic. For once you guys, you have me really laughing.
I'm a Bushie?

Well...you at least are a republican, and jay is very right wing, so I kind of put you too as that. Maybe bushie wasn't the right word, but in both of your arguements for the Iraq War, you supported it for its "taking a stand against terrorism", so I figured that you both wouldn't think the 9/11 was a set up, otherwise that would kind of defeat your arguement for Iraq.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:32 pm

ritz627 wrote:
Iz Man wrote:
ritz627 wrote: Its kind of funny, knowing that you and Iz man are both huge bushies and supporters of the War in Iraq, I would say that you are being sarcastic. For once you guys, you have me really laughing.
I'm a Bushie?
Well...you at least are a republican, and jay is very right wing, so I kind of put you too as that. Maybe bushie wasn't the right word, but in both of your arguements for the Iraq War, you supported it for its "taking a stand against terrorism", so I figured that you both wouldn't think the 9/11 was a set up, otherwise that would kind of defeat your arguement for Iraq.

Oh man have you seen the daily show's report on how to be a bushie? He cites the guy dick cheney shot as an example of a loyal bushie.