PaulatPeace - gross abuse

[betiko]

lol
the other funny dude is narutoserigala from TOP who foes everyone who beats him.

[Donelladan]

Well, first of all, it's wrong that Antarctica isn't hard for someone that never played it, especially against an expert. Actually I am yet to see someone winning his first game on Antarctica ( didn't do lot of research but everyone that I've seen lost). Plus the win% of PaulatPeace in his private game ( as well as his current rank obtained solely by playing that kind of game) is proof enough that yes indeed, Antarctica isn't that simple if you never played it.

Actually I am partly agreeing with you, Antarctica isn't that hard if you have seen once how to play it in escalating. Which is why PaulatPeace wasn't playing public game on Antarctica , he would have been losing tons of points. And this is also why he always challenged his opponents to a best of 5 simultaneously, so that they wouldn't understand the map and give him some challenge. And also why he was targeting inexperienced player on the map, just so he was quite sure he couldn't lose.

Second, every high ranker isn't as experienced as we are, we clan player, who are almost all CC geek.
For example, one of the opponents listed in my first topic is Pseudonymity , he has 229 games played.
Yes he is a brigadier, but he has less games played than there is map here on CC. Do you really think he'd know how to play a poly(4) escalating game on Antarctica ?

But anyway, this is irrelevant to the point, mass invitation of players selected for their inexperience on a designed map is an abuse. Just read the quote in my first post, they explained it better than I could. Frankly, I am surprised you don't see that. The abuse isn't about the opponent but to the integrity of the scoreboard.
( even though even the opponents aren't all happy and some went out of this with a sour taste in the mouth)

[riskllama]

[xroads]

Although I don't like Paul, or his actions, this clearly is not against the rules.

Many high ranked players only play maps they have perfected. I have had this done to me by several other high ranked players. Newbies don't realize the risk, experienced players should.

If people don't like this, make a rule called "ranching", but until then it is legal.

[Extreme Ways]

lol
the other funny dude is narutoserigala from TOP who foes everyone who beats him.

Does he? Would make my earlier post bullshit.

[GoranZ]

Going to take a look at this.

Looking at the evidence that Donelladan is not enough, you should also look at the invites PaulatPeace has sent(its irrelevant if they are accepted or not) to players he does not know. For example I have him on my ban list because he sent me invites on maps I dont know, and that happened multiple times. I dont have the game numbers but that should be easily accessible info.
And I'm sure this information is something that everyone would like to know about.

And other "TOP" players have similar habits as PaulatPeace, if he gets punished they should get a warning also.

[xroads]

precedent

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5&start=25

[riskllama]

so, to clarify :
farming = inviting (?)new recruits
ranching = inviting low rankers
is this correct?

[xroads]

so, to clarify :
farming = inviting (?)new recruits
ranching = inviting low rankers
is this correct?

I would say

Farming= Inviting new recruits on an abusive basis
Ranching=inviting players with little or no experience on map you have perfected on an abusive basis.

[king achilles]

Let me be clear that I am not a fan of people coming up with techniques or system that looks more like point harvesting than earning their points by their game skills. I am open to ideas in how to resolve this particular form of practice but as of now I can't consider it as something that covers the rules or guidelines.

No clear rules have been broken here. High ranked players or decent ranked players should know what they are getting into once they get invited. If the invitation was clear enough to tell what is going to happen, then accepting that invite, as a high ranked player, you are also liable for taking it.

Does this practice also involved forcing anyone to play these games with him? I can understand the wrongdoing if the accused is targeting new recruits or low ranked players who will likely lose after the game but if we go further with this guideline in also including high ranked players, we are setting a dangerous precedent in telling everyone not to play and send invites in games or maps that we have grown to like. I agree that this kind of practice looks shady but there is also a point where, as a long time high ranked player, we should also be responsible of our own actions when we accept game invites.

Let's not look at this report as only about the accused. Setting a precedent like this may also mean that any player who gets most of his points from playing a particular map is "on his way" of getting reported in the future. We might as well request the webmaster to put a limit on how many times you can play on each map which is not going to happen and no one would like.

Nonetheless, as I mentioned in my 2nd sentence of this post, this practice also opens up a door on how do we resolve this so as not to affect the website and the Clan world in the long run.

[BIG_John]

Lmfao!!! I have never in my life seen a bunch of babies trying to punish a guy for sending invites to high rank players experienced or not on a map! The high ranking person knows weather or not he knows that map and settings before joining the game! That person doesn't have to except the invite but they except the invite and all the damn head hunters trying to crucify the person that sent the invites! Is this what the site has come to! No wonder why everyone left the site. Guess Don still butt hurt that we smoked him in the CL8 and trying to find a way to get back at us! SMH! You guys are pathetic!

[riskllama]

inviting inexperienced players to play on a map with the promise of knowledge after the games are finished sounds pretty greazy to me, BIG J - just sayin'...

[persianempire]

I dont think its any organised attempt at farming or ranching , maybe this is just how this player wished to play by sending invites. Hes invited high rankers too not just recruits or low rank. You basically join at your own risk, any player worth their dice can see its obviously a difficult map at first glance, but its not unwinnable.

[Donelladan]

No clear rules have been broken here. High ranked players or decent ranked players should know what they are getting into once they get invited. If the invitation was clear enough to tell what is going to happen, then accepting that invite, as a high ranked player, you are also liable for taking it.

I fail to understand how this is different of what GLG was doing.
GLG has been doing several things, so maybe some of you only remember the first he did ( farming) but after he targeted lieutenant and captain that was unexperienced on certains map/settings.
Except that PaulatPeace has been targeting higher rank, there is no difference at all in what they are doing.

Again, i am reading this :

Gen.LeeGettinhed was banned for 1 month as per the situation guidelines for Gross Abuse of Game, which is a major offence. The unofficial term for the particular problem is "Ranching". Simply speaking, it is the case of someone abusing the game by purposefully inviting people who have no experience with certain settings to guarantee a win.

Now, it isn't the fact that he is making these games that resulted in this. It is the fact that he would purposely seek out players with little to no experience on the maps, create the games, and invite them to private matches. This was under the guise of limiting losses, but regardless of the reason, it is still a gross abuse of our gaming system. People will say other players do this. Other players will start games, multiple ones, on maps that they are good at. I myself start 10+ Poland games whenever I get the urge to, as I feel it is my strongest map. But they do not purposely hunt down players who don't understand the maps and invite them under the guise of education, whether there was education or not. Again, this is abusing our system. After examining the situation, it was decided that this indeed did qualify as a Gross Abuse, and the infraction was handed down as per our guidelines. Any questions or comments (within reason), feel free to post in here. The same rules I posted earlier apply though: I won't tolerate any flaming, baiting, or anything of the sort. Keep the remarks clean. Thank you.

This is exactly, word for word what PaulatPeace is doing. I can't see a single difference in the described fact above and what has PaulatPeace be doing.

Some might be " this is only a handful of points".
PaulatPeace is facing people on a best of 5, if we assume he gain around 10 points per match ( starting with 4000 to 5500 facing major to brigadier it's a correct average). After facing 20 opponents, 100 match = +1000 points. This isn't a small abuse, this is large. I

If the invitation was clear enough to tell what is going to happen, then accepting that invite, as a high ranked player, you are also liable for taking it.

This idea that because you have a high rank you are supposed to know everything about CC astonish me.
I have put an example above of one opponents of PaulatPeace who was a brigadier with only 229 games played.
But I could take other, many others of people that are between major and brigadier and that are only casual player and are unaware.

A lieutenant with 5000 games is probably way more likely to give you a hard fight on antartica than a brigadier with 200 games. Also a lieutenant with 5000 games is more likely to know that this is fishy and to refuse the invitations.
What is high rank ? What rank I am allowed to target ?

Nonetheless, as I mentioned in my 2nd sentence of this post, this practice also opens up a door on how do we resolve this so as not to affect the website and the Clan world in the long run.

I believe CC already had to face this in the past, GLG, and the decision made was the correct one, this is a gross abuse.
This is making a total joke of the scoreboard.
Let me tell you many players are way more skilled than PaulatPeace and on many more maps, opening ranching is a mistake.
Many players could pull the same trick with Antarctica or with another map.
If no one has been doing that in the past 5 years, it's because we all know this is totally abusive to target exclusively inexperienced players.

I mean just have a look at Duka stats.
All the points he won he won through private Antarctica polymorphic. His win stat is otherwise barely over 50% in poly and below in other games.



One point more concerning the rank of his opponents. He is targeting major, colonel and brigadier, not because he want a fair match. It's only because it's less risky and because he earn more points.

Kingachilles, have a look at the waiting game he has right now and how many inexperienced people he invited.

But well if rank is the only thing that matter for you. ( this is a small sample I did only first pages, not all the 1458 private games that Paul created).
And again, I only put 1 game number for each players to save my time.

Lieutenant :
Game 17115671 Genghis Khunt ( there is 5 games )
Game 17050357 bigdaddy40 ( there is 5 games )
Game 17033786 wolfram15 ( there is 5 games )
Game 17016580 Zoki77 ( there is 5 games )
Game 16888038 milo67 5 games, -> this one is now a private 1st class, this is a range (Range: 695-1868) - probably a very skilled lieutenant
Game 16795209 danielson ( there is 5 games )
Game 16697229 Mussollini ( 5 games, was a lieutenant when he faced Paul ,way lower now)
Game 16666497 GreenBaize ( 5 games)
Game 16664210 robellis00 ( 5 games)

Captain :
Game 17050425 bdb ( there is 5 games )
Game 17002199 ReDBuLLS ( there is 5 games )
Game 16859158 buddhabelly ( there is 5 games)
Game 16795205 sccoxx ( there is 5 games)
Game 16697229 Nailsale ( only 3 games)
Game 16634980 GARYQUINN ( 5 games)
Game 16634965 slats789 ( 5 games)
Game 16624901 JELO ( 5 games)

Sergeant 1st Class
Game 17030674 thea_cmt ( there is 5 games )
Game 16953065Acuernas ( there is 5 games )
Game 16914076esbiete ( there is 5 games )
Game 16812940bernooch ( 5 games, he is a captain now but was below 1500 points when he faced PaulatPeace).
Game 16797615Meatcat ( there is 5 games )

I skipped a tons of major, as well as many people that are currently captain but were major when they faced PaulatPeace, though lot of them were just above the limit ( between 2000 and 2100 pts). But since we want to put a limit on rank...
I don't think someone that has a score range like that : Bluventus1964 (Range: 1428-2193) should be considered a high rank for example, but he was a major when he faced PaulatPeace, so I didn't include him.
There is many many more like Bluventus, and those are the ones I did NOT include in the list above.


I am not saying that the victims are the opponents of PaulatPeace ( they partly are but what are 5 games ? no big deal! ).
The integrity of the scoreboard is here the question.
Do we want to have conqueror, (and generals or field marshall) , that are exclusively preying on the inexperienced ?

The pm from PaulatPeace is imho aggraving the case. If PaulatPeace was sending only invitations without pm, I am sure most would refuse.
But he sweetens it saying this is a big change for you to win a lot of points, and that he is gonna teach you how to play.
Truth is, if you never played antartica you'll get your ass kicked period. Plus he isn't teaching anything. Those are lies to incite people to join his games.

If PaulatPeace have been facing a couple of people like that, I wouldn't be speaking up. But the numbers are big.

Ofc inviting people isn't forbidden, no need to put a rule in place. Doing it on a large scale, targeting only inexperienced people, with the purpose of reaching conqueror, that's abuse.

[Kaskavel]

well, being the dethroned conqueror, I do not want to get involved a lot here for obvious reasons. But I would like to emphasize to the fact that I have an empty foe list and almost no invitations sent. All my games were public and free to join for everyone. I climbed 3000 points in 3 months without selecting opponents. There are players that I beat 30-0 and players that got me at 5-5. If I used similar tactics, selecting the first, I could go really-really higher than where I am now.

[eddie2]

Done I think you are missing the point here.
Glg new players inexperienced on most maps ( and loads or players who was first time they could play banned n/r maps) he was cleared loads of times under the 2 user names he had (other cannot be posted as he said was his real name)
Then he decides to rub it in everyone's face by trying to start a ranching user group (this is what finally got him). And this is also the difference new players on cc won't do this.

Now Paulet let's look at this really And I will use u as a example done.
U invite me to France 2.1. What's the first thing I am going to do? Go to search engine and check ure stats on that map. Now I have 2 choices enter the game with a 99.9 percent chance of winning or decline . Or even go into the game and see how he won them.

But anyway Antarctica poly parachute esc is easy load one base up get first cash out the way. Then he proberly attacks on the 2nd cash (5) cards so u attack on 4cards taking ure own out as well for the cashs. If any other reinforcement setting u advance troups out on that cash round. The map is really simple just he has mastered when to do the main attack.

[Keefie]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Next Victim^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Donelladan]

Stop comparing yourself with everyone else eddie2. You have 15 000 games played. Many opponents of PaulatPeace had less than 1000.
You are a clan player, as is almost everyone else that replied here, and clan players are CC geek. We are used to having map expert because that is what is clan world. Clan world is only made of people being expert on some map.
We aren't casual players like some of PaulatPeace opponent are.
But this is vastly irrelevant.

You are missing the point. Just read it :

The unofficial term for the particular problem is "Ranching". Simply speaking, it is the case of someone abusing the game by purposefully inviting people who have no experience with certain settings to guarantee a win.

Now, it isn't the fact that he is making these games that resulted in this. It is the fact that he would purposely seek out players with little to no experience on the maps, create the games, and invite them to private matches. This was under the guise of limiting losses, but regardless of the reason, it is still a gross abuse of our gaming system. People will say other players do this. Other players will start games, multiple ones, on maps that they are good at. I myself start 10+ Poland games whenever I get the urge to, as I feel it is my strongest map. But they do not purposely hunt down players who don't understand the maps and invite them under the guise of education, whether there was education or not. Again, this is abusing our system. After examining the situation, it was decided that this indeed did qualify as a Gross Abuse, and the infraction was handed down as per our guidelines. Any questions or comments (within reason), feel free to post in here. The same rules I posted earlier apply though: I won't tolerate any flaming, baiting, or anything of the sort. Keep the remarks clean. Thank you.

Is it allright to do what is described on this quote ?
Has PaulatPeace doing it ?
That's all.

[Extreme Ways]

Paul is doing what quote above does, but because gross abuse is so undefined KA can rule otherwise. Regardless of verdict it is a very thin line PaP is walking on and I would encourage him to stop doing this whatever the verdict is.

I am bummed it wasnt at least noted though.

[Donelladan]

It is still pending EW. He might still get noted or warned.

[Extreme Ways]

It is still pending EW. He might still get noted or warned.

Oopsie, I thought KA post was verdict.

[Keefie]

I've decide to start my own ranch.



Greetings Paul,

I have a proposal for you. I like the AOR1 map and have played it a lot. I see you have never played it, so I would like to play a few games with you on it.

Yes, I would like to gain some points, but I could also lose bugger all to you. I have played other players with little or no experience and they have won (not many). A lot of times the drop you get and dice and turn order have a lot to do with success (not really), and mine have sometimes been atrocious (Mmmm a little fib). If you win only 1 game your rank will come down quicker than Paris Hilton's knickers.

However the main benefit to you would be the opportunity to learn a new map (the 3 or 4 you do know sounds a lot but it really isn't), sure your rank will get hammered but that's a small price to pay. I will answer honestly all questions you may have about the map, with either yes or no and help you to become familiar with it. There have been many times I wished I could learn a new map and would gladly have sold my soul to the devil to do so.

One additional motive for me is to get to know you a little. Our Clan is currently ranked lower than a snakes ass, but we are always looking for quality players. I noticed you are currently with an ultra competitive sect clan in leadership role, that must be awfully tiresome. We only have fun in my clan so I'll promise to keep your hopes up of joining us right until our last game has finished.

Should you not be too keen on AOR1 we could always try one of the other 150 or so maps that would leave you as confused as a blind lesbian in a fish market.

If you want to consider this opportunity, kindly let me know.

Thanks for listening.

Sincerely,

Keith

[eddie2]

Stop comparing yourself with everyone else eddie2. You have 15 000 games played.

Done I'm not comparing myself to anything just giving examples. But you are comparing this to the glg case. There are loads of differences.
1) glg picked players with 5/10 games under their belt.
2) glg had over 20 reports against him always saying he didn't cross the line was on edge o it.(farming)
3) glg got a big head calling it ranching ( that is where the name for this type of play came from)
4) glg was warned to stop.
5) glg then tried to start a user group called the ranchers ( which was blocked)
6) glg then changed to make players invite him which got him banned. Remember this was a one game only thing.

Now Paul best of 5.
1) sends pm offering best of 5
2) players are experienced on site.
3) in best of 5 I u play 1 game quicker than the rest u can see how it's done.
4) from his pm u know he is experienced on the map.

Is he on a fine line maybe but the players he is playing are experienced site players not newbies or inexperienced. If they are stupid enough to accept a 5 game challenge on a map via someone who has admitted is his fav map then that's there problem and not anybody else's. Like you have seen in this thread players coming in here saying they didn't play him.

On the other side of it look at what glg was also doing he was like befriending them via live chat then once he got there trust invited them to the games where they wouldn't lose as they were talking all the time, Paulet is sending a pm if. U join u join if u don't u dont

[mrswdk]

The PMs have now vanished from my inbox, due to the CC inbox being tiny, but Paul invited me to play 5 games on Antarctica with him a while back. Sent me the same PM that Don quoted in OP, when I asked him why he'd take the risk of losing a ton of points to me he was all 'I just really enjoy Antarctica!!'.

I felt a little violated at the time, kinda like a kid who got approached by a 40-something in a chat forum, but now I feel supremely insulted. Please ban him asap.

[betiko]

I m kind of thinking outside the box now... but basically, we all know here that points are not what define a player s skill, as there are tons of ways to increase your score taking minimal risks.
This is a game, and people like paul just wanted to get on top of the scoreboard, he found a method to get there. We know all here that even if paul is a skilled player, he wouldn't be close to a top 25 CC player list, nor most of the guys currently in the top 25... everybody on CC plays his own way and many colonel/brigs that aren t being game selective would kick their ass on most map/settings.
If some enjoy playing cheap, well, after all who cares. Just by making this C&A don exposes to everyone how this guy went up the scoreboard. It just shows he deserves no tap in the back for making it to conqueror. Hopefully now that he s made it he'll stop and understand that there is no fun in continuing