Trump's Impeachment (Official Thread)

[Mr_Adams]

I hold my over/under even at July 4th. Seemed patriotic, and not unreasonable.

[mrswdk]

He even gave a shout-out to Brexit as an example of Trumpism sweeping the world. "Look at Brexit - it's much smaller than what we did - but look at Brexit. The Nation-State remains the best model for human happiness."

Brexit came way first, so you mean Trump is an example of Brexitism sweeping by the world.

The UK, once again leading the world (^0^)

[Woodruff]

But it's my hunch that you guys like Trump's way and will simply not say it openly. saxi, patches, tgd, you, all have an excuse to say "Trump isn't so bad", "I didn't vote for him.. but he hasn't really do nothing baad, those EO are toothless", "This might be counterintuitive but, if you think really really hard, have some acid, you'll see it's the other way around.. but i didn't vote for trump". "I've always wanted x! now i didn't vote for trump but he might get it done, by accident, so, that's why!", "He's just an adorable clown, it's not my fault millenialibtards are so sensitive"..

What gets me is the UTTER OUTRAGE we would have seen from some of these individuals (as well as most of us on the left) if Obama had said some of the things that Trump has said. The hypocricy of these individuals is incredible.

[Woodruff]

Manufacturing is an old industry? As in obsolete? Pray tell, explain exactly how manufacturing is obsolete.

Technology is on the fast-track to making manufacturing jobs obsolete, yes.

I would say, we've been through this already if we look back through history. Before industrialization everything was hand crafted by artisans. A slow process and expensive with a high degree of specialization and years of apprenticeship and a large learning curve. The most advanced nations industrialized and put those artisans out of work. We forget but at the time people were saying the exact same thing. The artisans, the apprentices all complained they'd be put out of work, and they were. It was so bad in fact that virtually every industrialized nation when first becoming industrialized went through intense periods of strife.
The word "sabotage", it is said, comes from the word "sabot" from the Netherlands. The artisans would throw their sabots into the machines to damage and destroy the things that were taking their jobs, hence the word "sabotage".
We've all heard of the Luddites who were involved in large scale riots and gladly destroyed threshing machines. They were put down by extremely harsh punishments and crackdowns by respective governments.
But we got through it.

I'd imagine much the same can and will happen as we get more and more automated.

Computer programs are already (poorly at the moment, but improving dramatically) writing computer programs. Robots are already building and repairing robots. There will come a time, and I personally believe it's in the not-too-distant future of within 200 years or so (essentially the lifespan of the United States to this point), when there will be VERY FEW actual jobs left for people, as technology overcomes them. We need to come up with a different paradigm in how we view the economy.

[2dimes]

Was that not going to happen as soon as they started using robots to spot weld?

Yet here we are with people working more hours than they would have back when everthing would have been made manually in the 1800s.

Granted most of them are in China but you must see what I'm saying.

Robots are not needed to make things for other robots. Without people developing new exciting derailers for mountain bikes, the robots will just make the same thing until someone shuts it off.

"We have too many rotary phones. Thanks for your service."

[Dukasaur]

Was that not going to happen as soon as they started using robots to spot weld?

Yet here we are with people working more hours than they would have back when everthing would have been made manually in the 1800s.

Granted most of them are in China but you must see what I'm saying.

Robots are not needed to make things for other robots. Without people developing new exciting derailers for mountain bikes, the robots will just make the same thing until someone shuts it off.

"We have too many rotary phones. Thanks for your service."

Simple robots that only do one task are no different than other machines. They are simply a tool to be used by their human handlers, limited by the handler's understanding of the task.

The AI systems that are online now are not simple machines. They are writing symphonies, painting original pictures, diagnosing disease, engaging in phone sex, writing legal briefs, designing not only recipes but complete menus, and so on. Really, the age of humans ended with the fall of Kasparov. There isn't anything a human can do any more that a machine can't do better.

The only reason most work is still done by humans is that humans are still cheaper, but it's only a matter of time before that also changes. Now that computer programs write other computer programs, it's only a matter of time before robots design other robots.

[2dimes]

I am honestly shocked to read that written by you duk. Are you trolling?

[waauw]

Dude, I said anything about debt. I was merely contradicting the out-dated mercantilist doctrines.

Oh, you mean free trade. Free trade is great. But it only works with comparable countries. Even you can't deny that. Two countries that have relative parity in standards of living and wages then free trade works great.
Where free trade doesn't work is between countries where those standards are in stark contrast. A country like France can't compete with a country like China in labor costs, the biggest expense any manufacturing process accrues.

So tell us, what is your solution to improving free trade with countries that don't have parity in regards to standards of living and wages?

That is a legitimate issue and bleating out "Free Trade is best Trade" like a lamb doesn't actually address the issue, does it? Simply saying "This isn't the 18th century anymore" doesn't address the legitimate issue either. You seem to think it does for some reason.

Then there is the issue of free trade with totalitarian regimes. You still have the exact same problems with labor costs harming the more advanced nation with the addition that the benefits for the totalitarian nation never reaches those who are the worse off in that country. Free trade benefits the dictator and his cronies but to the virtually enslaved people free trade is simply more sweat shops.
How is that address with "This isn't the 18th century anymore"?

Your "contradicting outdated mercantilists doctrines" argument lack any substance at all.

Dude, you need to stop elaborating on what I already mentioned. What the hell do you think I meant with 'Ricardo'? International trade promotes innovation, and therefor sustainable jobs, instead of the protectionist measures which derive from old mercantilist thought. Those might increase your production in labour intensive products, but will equally increase your prices and will thusly not result in an increase of wealth. On the contrary really. Trump's protectionism is nothing but a beggar-thy-neighbour policy focused on an era where many of the referred labour intensive products were still considered modern industries.

[saxitoxin]

Trump tribute from tonight's episode of Homeland -

[betiko]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where only the press that throws softballs is allowed to press conferences.
Seriously guys, wake up.
Don t let this happen. When will you agree that this is too much? Just replace him by john mccain

[Symmetry]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where only the press that throws softballs is allowed to press conferences.
Seriously guys, wake up.
Don t let this happen. When will you agree that this is too much? Just replace him by john mccain

Mike Pence is next in line if the Donald goes down. I'm not sure if the Russians would like that. Could be worse- McCain's VP of choice was Sarah Palin, after all.

[saxitoxin]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

[mrswdk]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

... the police aren't allowed to raid Muslims' homes without just cause

(unlike F R __ __ C __)

NEW THREAD PLEASE

[Woodruff]

Was that not going to happen as soon as they started using robots to spot weld?

Yet here we are with people working more hours than they would have back when everthing would have been made manually in the 1800s.

Granted most of them are in China but you must see what I'm saying.

Robots are not needed to make things for other robots. Without people developing new exciting derailers for mountain bikes, the robots will just make the same thing until someone shuts it off.

"We have too many rotary phones. Thanks for your service."

Well yes...I suppose you can just stick your head in the sand if that's what you want to do.

I hope you're one of the rich guys who won't have to worry about anything once robotics are doing all of the work? If you're not, you're not thinking things through very well...because they'll be the only ones with any recourse, if we don't start changing our perspective on what will allow our society to continue to thrive then.

[waauw]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

... the police aren't allowed to raid Muslims' homes without just cause

(unlike F R __ __ C __)

NEW THREAD PLEASE

... government isn't allowed to arrest people indefinitely without a trial with the mere excuse of 'terrorism'

(unlike C_I_A or _SA)

[mrswdk]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

... the police aren't allowed to raid Muslims' homes without just cause

(unlike F R __ __ C __)

NEW THREAD PLEASE

... government isn't allowed to arrest people indefinitely without a trial with the mere excuse of 'terrorism'

(unlike C_I_A or _SA)

Wait, who are you claiming can and can't do that? Because police in France can.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

Shots fired!

-TG

[2dimes]

Well yes...I suppose you can just stick your head in the sand if that's what you want to do.

I hope you're one of the rich guys who won't have to worry about anything once robotics are doing all of the work? If you're not, you're not thinking things through very well...because they'll be the only ones with any recourse, if we don't start changing our perspective on what will allow our society to continue to thrive then.

I do alright as a robot mechanic.

[betiko]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

Lol... try again! What you can t do is wear religious symbols in public schools such as christian crosses or headscarfs, nor if you are working as a public servant. Not in public, you didn't do your homework.

Tg, see, that's why you vote trump.. some idiot such as saxi comes up with "facts" and you follow him blatantly without even checking if what he's saying is true (zing!)

[betiko]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

... the police aren't allowed to raid Muslims' homes without just cause

(unlike F R __ __ C __)

NEW THREAD PLEASE

Yeah right... like during the patriot act you stupid f*ck.
France has been attacked like 5 times in the last 2 years and there is a state of emergency that had been declared. If some "muslim homes" are raided as you said, it's not because there is no just cause, it's because there is at least a strong suspicion and the house or owners are linked to something.

Now do us a favour and get a life mrswdk. Spending all your free time at your age masturbating on hentai over the internet while pretending to be a chinese lady isn't doing any good to your mental balance.

[saxitoxin]

Yeah right... like during the patriot act you stupid f*ck.
France has been attacked like 5 times in the last 2 years and there is a state of emergency that had been declared. If some "muslim homes" are raided as you said, it's not because there is no just cause, it's because there is at least a strong suspicion and the house or owners are linked to something.

Now do us a favour and get a life mrswdk. Spending all your free time at your age masturbating on hentai over the internet while pretending to be a chinese lady isn't doing any good to your mental balance.

Lol... try again! What you can t do is wear religious symbols in public schools such as christian crosses or headscarfs, nor if you are working as a public servant. Not in public, you didn't do your homework.

Tg, see, that's why you vote trump.. some idiot such as saxi comes up with "facts" and you follow him blatantly without even checking if what he's saying is true (zing!)

guess we hit close to home

[betiko]

Was that not going to happen as soon as they started using robots to spot weld?

Yet here we are with people working more hours than they would have back when everthing would have been made manually in the 1800s.

Granted most of them are in China but you must see what I'm saying.

Robots are not needed to make things for other robots. Without people developing new exciting derailers for mountain bikes, the robots will just make the same thing until someone shuts it off.

"We have too many rotary phones. Thanks for your service."

Well yes...I suppose you can just stick your head in the sand if that's what you want to do.

I hope you're one of the rich guys who won't have to worry about anything once robotics are doing all of the work? If you're not, you're not thinking things through very well...because they'll be the only ones with any recourse, if we don't start changing our perspective on what will allow our society to continue to thrive then.

Any job that can be replaced by a robot isn't a job worth existing anyways. People can find other ways to contribute to society. I don't think all the jobs in 2017 need to still exist in 2037. Things evolve, and there is no big deal in evolving too. My previous job has been replaced by computer algorithms fighting/cooperating with one another.

[waauw]

Wow... now the us of a has turned into a dictatorship where ...

... anyone can wear a headscarf in public if they choose

(unlike F __ __ N __ E)

... the police aren't allowed to raid Muslims' homes without just cause

(unlike F R __ __ C __)

NEW THREAD PLEASE

... government isn't allowed to arrest people indefinitely without a trial with the mere excuse of 'terrorism'

(unlike C_I_A or _SA)

Wait, who are you claiming can and can't do that? Because police in France can.

Nope.

[thegreekdog]

But it's my hunch that you guys like Trump's way and will simply not say it openly. saxi, patches, tgd, you, all have an excuse to say "Trump isn't so bad", "I didn't vote for him.. but he hasn't really do nothing baad, those EO are toothless", "This might be counterintuitive but, if you think really really hard, have some acid, you'll see it's the other way around.. but i didn't vote for trump". "I've always wanted x! now i didn't vote for trump but he might get it done, by accident, so, that's why!", "He's just an adorable clown, it's not my fault millenialibtards are so sensitive"..

What gets me is the UTTER OUTRAGE we would have seen from some of these individuals (as well as most of us on the left) if Obama had said some of the things that Trump has said. The hypocricy of these individuals is incredible.

I never said Trump wasn't bad. I do think he's bad. I don't like social conservatives and I think he's economically more liberal than Hillary Clinton. What I'm trying to illustrate is a very specific point, which Woodruff has also illustrated - people need to get out of thinking about politics in an "us" vs. "them" mentality and more on an issue by issue or case by case basis.

And for what it's worth, if you listed the most intelligent people on CC, the top 10 would include me, Saxi, and patches.

[nietzsche]

And for what it's worth, if you listed the most intelligent people on CC, the top 10 would include me, Saxi, and patches.

That is completely subjective. Any sort of measure you'd like to choose as your perceived intelligence metric depends greatly on motivation. Motivation to be perceived or not as intelligent, motivation to be educated about a certain topic, etc. It's also dependent on the ability to use written language, which although in general is a good metric of intelligence, it's not always the case. Take for instance the case of Donald Trump, he doesn't show a great intellect with the way he uses language, but he's really smart [1]

Even if you chose specific intelligent metrics, they don't really say much. Say you choose college degree, we could say my degree is more challenging that yours, but you simply can be better at yours than I'm at mine, or hypothetically better at my degree if you had chosen it. You can chose IQ tests, but those doesn't really represent a full picture of intelligence.


What it's completely objective though, it's the size of a person's penis.



[1] "You know, I'm, like, a smart person" - Donald Trump.