WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

[hulmey]

hey kangroo man , will pop in later to give u a little feedback

[cairnswk]

hey kangroo man , will pop in later to give u a little feedback

yes thanks hulmey....btw kangaroo is now in all the shops and supermarkets here as an alternative to other game meats and also beef, and apparently its rich in oils for the heart, very low fat, and quite tender...about AUD18.00/kg.

Anyway....below is V8 for your pleasure.

[cairnswk]

In this version there is a re-work of the aircraft attacks, and a correction to Aa Bombardments. Bonuses have been adjusted.

[DiM]

AA guns attack like normal or are they using the bombardment feature?

also i understand they attack one way. then what happens to AA A? it has an impassable border in the back. or does it border oil C and oil E?

[cairnswk]

AA guns attack like normal or are they using the bombardment feature?

also i understand they attack one way. then what happens to AA A? it has an impassable border in the back. or does it border oil C and oil E?

1. AA guns are using the bombardment feature.

2. AA A should borders Oil C only...i will fix that DiM...thanks for the pickup.

[yeti_c]

2 of your lines have arrows on the end?

I assume they need to be removed?

Otherwise - I like it...

C.

[cairnswk]

2 of your lines have arrows on the end?

I assume they need to be removed?

Otherwise - I like it...

C.

Yeti_C...no they are one way attack lines...basically the oil tank can't fire back at the K1...and the K1 is not facing the right way to attack the Oklahoma, so it is there to indicate that the Oklahoma can attack K1.

[cairnswk]

[DiM]

the oil tap is a part of the oil tanks or the naval yard?

if it is a part of the oil tanks then it's not really clear because in the legend it says only oil tanks. maybe rename to oil refinery or oil rig.

also pensylvania battleship is bordering the dry dock AND the navy yard?

more connections that confuse me:

officers' club borders district hq?

st louis cruiser and honolulu cruiser border eachother? in the legend i says they border either navy yard or dry dock. does this mean they don't border eachother?


also a gameplay problem. it says in the legend that planes can't attack eachother. then how are we supposed to get the zeroes continent?

let's say i have lots of troops in Z7 and i want to take the zeroes cont.
i have to conquer half the map to take ~22 terits to be able to do it. so basically unless you get a really lucky deployment it's basically impossible to get the zeroes. and even if you get a lucky deployment it will be impossible to hold it. if you lose Z3 you'll have to breach 2-3 other continents to be able to reach Z3 and take it back. either via cruisers and fort is; or via bombers tenders and fort is.

same problem is present also for the other aircraft continents.

so either make them connect. or make them worth 100 troops to justify the trouble of taking half the map to connect them

[cairnswk]

the oil tap is a part of the oil tanks or the naval yard?

if it is a part of the oil tanks then it's not really clear because in the legend it says only oil tanks. maybe rename to oil refinery or oil rig.

also pensylvania battleship is bordering the dry dock AND the navy yard?

more connections that confuse me:

officers' club borders district hq?

st louis cruiser and honolulu cruiser border eachother? in the legend i says they border either navy yard or dry dock. does this mean they don't border eachother?


also a gameplay problem. it says in the legend that planes can't attack eachother. then how are we supposed to get the zeroes continent?

let's say i have lots of troops in Z7 and i want to take the zeroes cont.
i have to conquer half the map to take ~22 terits to be able to do it. so basically unless you get a really lucky deployment it's basically impossible to get the zeroes. and even if you get a lucky deployment it will be impossible to hold it. if you lose Z3 you'll have to breach 2-3 other continents to be able to reach Z3 and take it back. either via cruisers and fort is; or via bombers tenders and fort is.

same problem is present also for the other aircraft continents.

so either make them connect. or make them worth 100 troops to justify the trouble of taking half the map to connect them

I understand...i'll see what i can fix....a solutiuon is at hand...but maybe not until the next couple of days...its 10:00pm and bedtime. I have to work tomorrow after having a week holidays.

[cairnswk]

How does this one works DiM?

[DiM]

all the problems have been solved except the airplanes.

they still are impossible continents. even if you made them easier to get they are still almost impossible.

let's look at each.

zeroes. 7 terits 7 borders 7 bonus. in order to travel from one airplane to another you must pass through 6 other terits.

kates. 6 terits 6 borders 6 bonus. in order to travel from one airplane to another you must pass through 7 other terits.

bombers. 5 terits 5 borders 5 bonus. in order to travel from one airplane to another you must pass through 11 other terits.

so i would never ever go for any of the airplane continents. impossible to get and hold unless you already have 90% of the map in which case it does not really matter.
you have changed some connections around and reduced traveling a great deal but would you really go to all much trouble to travel through 11 terits to conquer 5 more and protect all 5 just for a bonus of 5? i don't think so.

and remember the planes can be bombarded by AA guns. this means you need to move fast from one plane to another to retake you bonus and moving fast is impossible here. i think the 2way radio comm was the best solution.

the planes are already hard to hold because of the bombardments and of the exposure in every terit. you don't need to add hard movement to that difficulty.

[edbeard]

I don't really see what was wrong with the planes having connecting lines like they originally did.

[cairnswk]

all the problems have been solved except the airplanes.

they still are impossible continents. even if you made them easier to get they are still almost impossible.

let's look at each.

zeroes. 7 terits 7 borders 7 bonus. in order to travel from one airplane to another you must pass through 6 other terits.

kates. 6 terits 6 borders 6 bonus. in order to travel from one airplane to another you must pass through 7 other terits.

bombers. 5 terits 5 borders 5 bonus. in order to travel from one airplane to another you must pass through 11 other terits.

so i would never ever go for any of the airplane continents. impossible to get and hold unless you already have 90% of the map in which case it does not really matter.
you have changed some connections around and reduced traveling a great deal but would you really go to all much trouble to travel through 11 terits to conquer 5 more and protect all 5 just for a bonus of 5? i don't think so.

and remember the planes can be bombarded by AA guns. this means you need to move fast from one plane to another to retake you bonus and moving fast is impossible here. i think the 2way radio comm was the best solution.

the planes are already hard to hold because of the bombardments and of the exposure in every terit. you don't need to add hard movement to that difficulty.

My reasons for having aircraft on a single attack line are thus:
* the whole idea of this map is to try to create something like what happened at Pearl Harbor, where the aircraft attacked viciously and fire was returned from the ground only.
* why would aircraft want to control/attack each other since they are on the same side.
* these aircraft didn't have turrets with a gunner who could fire all round them
* if the aircraft can be taken from the ships, that is almost the same as being shot down and made ineffective (thus someone on this gamebaord conquers that aircraft territory.)
* one might propose a similar reasoning for the navy attack lines as the aircraft - why would they want to attack each other. None, apart from rendering assistance. With the Navy they can move seamen from ship to ship to assist battling the aircraft, if they are able.
* if an aircraft overcomes a ship/land terit, then that ship has opportunity to move seamen from their vessel to another (overcome it) and attack another aircraft.

So, DiM, would it help if aircraft had another but independant bonus system:
Within any section (region):
Any 2 aircraft - 3
Any 4 aircraft - 5
Any 6 aircraft - 7

And I planned no neautrals for this map, so this would mean that aircraft have the opportunity to attack effectively and hold position including attacks from the AA battery.

And bonuses could be accumulating from the outset of the match if someone is lucky enough to start with two or four aircraft in the same section. I doubt they might get all six.

Maybe the bonunes for aircraft need increasing. OK then tell me to what level, but i'm afraid you're not getting 100 armies. LOL

I'd like to keep this attack lines from the aircraft, but maybe we just have to work an effective bonus system for them.

[cairnswk]

I don't really see what was wrong with the planes having connecting lines like they originally did.

yes edbeard, that's what i initially thought, but maybe this map because of its place in history etc and somewhat different battle approach, we could develop a certain game play for it.
I would like to try, and if unsuccessful, then we can return to normal risk battle plans.

Plase check my repsonse in the above post.

[edbeard]

The idea you proposed is interesting. I don't agree that 2 aircraft from one region should get plus 3. I think that 2 should give bonus of 1. But, 4 should give the bonus of 4 or 5. I think this works because you can easily start with 2, but getting more aircraft and holding them will be difficult

[dolemite]

An idea:
-Make all airplanes neutral
-Airplanes have no normal attack routes, airplanes can only bombard ships (ie can attack ships but not deploy on them)
-Only batteries can attack airplanes
-Airplanes get a +1 deployment bonus (the new thing where a troop gets added to that territory and only that territory)

That means that conquering the airplanes would be really important. They wouldn't be used to colonize, but would only be used for attacking.

[yeti_c]

-Airplanes have no normal attack routes, airplanes can only bombard ships (ie can attack ships but not deploy on them)
-Only batteries can attack airplanes
-Airplanes get a +1 deployment bonus (the new thing where a troop gets added to that territory and only that territory)

Like these ideas...

Not sure about making the planes neutral though?!

C.

[DiM]

Within any section (region):
Any 2 aircraft - 3
Any 4 aircraft - 5
Any 6 aircraft - 7

i think something along the lines that cairns suggested could work fine. i'm in a bit of a rush now but i'll look later to see.

[cairnswk]

Posting of Bonus Aircraft section.

[KEYOGI]

A couple of little things. I think the ships could probably use some sort of effect to give them the appearance of sitting in the water rather than floating in the sky. Basically, I get no sense of depth between the ships and the aircraft. Perhaps shadows for both, but the aircraft shadows would obviously be smaller and further away?

Also, is there any way to neaten up the attack lines between ships/aircraft?

[cairnswk]

A couple of little things. I think the ships could probably use some sort of effect to give them the appearance of sitting in the water rather than floating in the sky. Basically, I get no sense of depth between the ships and the aircraft. Perhaps shadows for both, but the aircraft shadows would obviously be smaller and further away?

Also, is there any way to neaten up the attack lines between ships/aircraft?

Keyogi....what sterling ideas. Below is the same V12 with new implementations.

Pearl Harbor on this map lies in a roughly NNW direction.
The sun rises in the ESE in the northern hemisphere as it is their winter.
So the sun would be shining roughly SE to NW on this map.
Which is why the shadows are running back into the top left of the map.
I don't know if the airplane shadows which are at 25% transparency are correct but they look pretty good to me.
Also, this attack occurred at 7:57am in the morning when the sun possibly wouldn't be very high in the sky. So I doubt if there would be much shadow from the planes, and these planes according to films attacked not far above the ground/water, therefore their shadow would be alsmost the same size perhaps as the planes, not reduced as if they were high up. let me know what you think about this.

I have also moved all the shadows on the legend names in the NW direction.

As for the attack lines...I am going to have to possibly draw these in by hand one by one. At present they are drawn using a line tool, which over a horizon of 4 pixels but 48 pixels long, drops the line by 1 pixel every twelve pixels right or left. So to alleviate this, I would have to completely redrawn every line and do it dot by dot.
If it is necessary then let me know, otherwise i may be able to create a scattered effect whereby bullets may fall from their projectory due to gravity if thier forward force is not enough to keep them on target trajectory.

[KEYOGI]

Thanks for the direct response cairns, but I can't see any shadows!

In regards to the attack lines, is there some sort of anti-aliasing effect you could apply to help? That should smooth out the line, maybe?

[Wisse]

Thanks for the direct response cairns, but I can't see any shadows!

In regards to the attack lines, is there some sort of anti-aliasing effect you could apply to help? That should smooth out the line, maybe?

you have to look better i couldn't see them too first but if you look a bit north west of the airplanes you see them too

[cairnswk]

Thanks for the direct response cairns, but I can't see any shadows!

In regards to the attack lines, is there some sort of anti-aliasing effect you could apply to help? That should smooth out the line, maybe?

Keyogi...u must be blind LOL. the shadows are only small on the NW side of the ships.

As for the lines...no there is no anti-aliasing that is applicable to lines, only to shapes with borders....there might be able to be something done with this.