The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[Skoffin]

As Ragian, I get the sense that Dakky may in fact be town. He's playing like shit and he can be pretty cunning as scum, I can't imagine him playing this badly as scum but it fits his character as town.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I am aware of that. I made "mistakes" and went for Thor lynch but I still think there is something deeper in the whole setup so I can't blame myself if he is really an "innocent child" .. I really believe Thor is something deeper, mod-confirmed town but probably 3rd party or scum. So I hope you can understand me. I've never played with anyone who's vengeful here on CC and I have a lot of games in my ass here, so I assume if something "new" is added, it's possible that Thor is one shot scum option to be confirmed as scum. I know we stopped discussing the game, but I still believe it could be a bastard setup.

If I'm wrong, we will see if I get lynched, but one of you are going with me and I will HAVE to pick one of you. Just no one said or even hinted who you want to get killed with me.

Jesus, is this enough of a reason to not vote for Dakky at this point? He's clearly dead set on killing Thor, our only confirmed town. I can't...I just can't.

@Pika: I gain absolutely nothing by "defending" both Mitch and Dakky. I'm simply saying we're choosing the easier route because of whom they are, rather than focusing our attention on someone else, whom I imagine are pushing for one or the either just as hard. Also, I believe Dakky has stated he can kill whomever, and if Thor is on that wagon, I can guarantee we lose two town from it. I don't understand how this is flying over your head.

And last but not least, good ol' Buj. I'll hop on board with you for MP. At the very least it might actually get away from this mitch and dakky discussion.

unvote vote MP

[Pikanchion]

He's clearly dead set on killing Thor, our only confirmed town. I can't...I just can't.

@Pika: I gain absolutely nothing by "defending" both Mitch and Dakky. I'm simply saying we're choosing the easier route because of whom they are, rather than focusing our attention on someone else, whom I imagine are pushing for one or the either just as hard. Also, I believe Dakky has stated he can kill whomever, and if Thor is on that wagon, I can guarantee we lose two town from it. I don't understand how this is flying over your head.

So now you can guarantee that dakky21 is town even though he's "clearly dead set" on killing Thorthoth? Well obviously the fact dakky21 is town based on this compelling evidence is clear for all to see... Is this a Cop claim or are you scum?

Unvote: dakky21
Vote: DirtyDishSoap

[ZaBeast]

I'm a bit confused by dakky's behavior. I wonder if he's trying to make people afraid of lynching him because of who he might bring down with him if he's indeed vengeful. I mean everything he said about his lynch target seems off: how would picking the target randomly make it less likely to hit a power role? Why have first, second, third and fourth choices when he says he'll pick randomly? And obviously, why have thor as the second scummiest player? I'm starting to have some jester vibes to be honnest, because he isn't trying to look less scummy. I'm staying with mitch though, because I think he did slip at the beginning of D2.
I agree mitch behavior is also odd, he looks terrified to hammer dakky, as if he knew he was a bomb and not a vengeful townie (which would mean both were scum). If we believe dakky, he can shoot anyone, so I don't see why voting him makes him less of a potential target for dakky than hammering. At this point, we're not talking about a quickhammer and dakky already claimed. Also, I missed the soft power-role claim from mitch, can somebody point me to it?

It's easy to see Mitch's post as bandwagon for the sake of bandwagoning, but you then fail to see the fine print (as I read it anyway), which is "I'll do what the majority (town by far at this stage) wants me to do." I'm not voting Mitch today, no matter how much Skoffin weeps

I did read it this way also, I just thought it didn't make his behavior less scummy. Seemed to me like a way to lynch someone without assuming the risks, because you could come up with arguments like "hey, you wanted me to vote for him, not my fault he's not scum" or the like. Then again, we're talking about mitch so I may be reading too much into it.

[DirtyDishSoap]

He's clearly dead set on killing Thor, our only confirmed town. I can't...I just can't.

@Pika: I gain absolutely nothing by "defending" both Mitch and Dakky. I'm simply saying we're choosing the easier route because of whom they are, rather than focusing our attention on someone else, whom I imagine are pushing for one or the either just as hard. Also, I believe Dakky has stated he can kill whomever, and if Thor is on that wagon, I can guarantee we lose two town from it. I don't understand how this is flying over your head.

So now you can guarantee that dakky21 is town even though he's "clearly dead set" on killing Thorthoth? Well obviously the fact dakky21 is town based on this compelling evidence is clear for all to see... Is this a Cop claim or are you scum?

Unvote: dakky21
Vote: DirtyDishSoap

Im not sure if you're purposefully being dense or are being silly for the sake of it.
Dakky flips scum, kills thor, we lose another the following night.
Dakky flips town, kills thor, we lose another the following night.

Is none of this getting through?

[ZaBeast]

If you believe dakky is scum you should vote for him. Losing a townie while killing a scum is still a net gain. However, I don't think we'd have a vengeful scum that can shoot whoever he wants, because that would just give scum a free kill. And if that's the case, I can't blame dakky for entertaining the thought that thor could be a third party.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I don't believe Dakky to be scum, but I'm on board to lynching him provided that we've exhausted all options or approaching the deadline, at least we'd have SOME sort of plan. I'm just against it for reasons stated one too many times at this point, and I can't wrap my head around why anyone thinks it's the best course of action, when to me, it clearly isn't.

We're relying Pika's prediction at this point. Vote Dakky, hope he's a bomb and sacrifice Mitch (or whomever) and then go into the night phase OR Dakky can shoot whomever he wants that was on the wagon, kill x player (Given his adamancy for Thor, I'd say it's pretty likely), lose 2 town, and then another (It's highly unlikely it'll be blocked/saved/whatever), the following night.

I hate the idea behind. And the fact that I'm getting a Mandy déjà vu moment here, where everyone plays "Follow Da Leader" and we have a repeat. That latter part is more terrifying to me.

[BuJaber]

Unvote vote MudPuppy

[Skoffin]

Well I am screwed either way, get on the BW for Dakky or I will get voted out, Skoffin wants me to hammer him so I die for sure ,but I am not ready to leave this game yet,Dakky will pick me for sure if I get on the BW ,I like my town role and would like to live for another day, If there is another wagon that you guys want me to join I will join it

@ZaBeast I took this to mean that mitch was hinting that he was non-vanilla and wanted to use whatever abilities, otherwise what would be the point in phrasing it that way.



I'm probably more open to the possibility of mud than dakky; what are the essential points against him though? Most of what I'm getting scummy vibes but not much to explain it.

[FloresDelMal]

mitch (...) his style is not as annoying as before, i see it as progress, but i dont think town will suffer much if we lose him unless god forbids the mod gave him a power role, but my question is, why do you think he is scummier than dakky who was just as erratic and was caught lying?

I think based in my observation on mitch's style across both games i am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, since his poor wording is just as likely to come from honest clumsiness as it is to come from scum slip up; so my vote is staying on dakky, because i dont beliave his (vengeful) claim i dont really care who hammer's him, and even if you beliave his claim you shouldnt care either, because he already explained he isnt supposed to be a bomb, but in the odd case that he is not lying yet again, and he is a townie with the power to drag to the grave a player he thinks might be scum i could like to see hotshot and mitch on his BW, and i couldnt mind seeing MM as well, but seriously, if he is scum and is lying about his role the matter of who places the last vote is completely unimportant, and if you beliave in him, and you think he is a vengeful townie, then you have no reason to fear him being a bomb since he already explained that he is free to choose

I dont want to repeat myself so i just highlighted my own quote, i am still waiting for answers, why mitch over dakky? why ppl like pika are unvoting dakky now? fear to get killed by the supposedly vengeful townie? how is mitch self preservation argument more scummy than the yellow rodent abandoning the dakky's sinking boat now? anyway if i see the dakky lynch is not happening i will switch my vote to mitch because as i stated before i dont think losing mitch will be such a big loss to town since he hasnt put a single case together yet, but since he soft claimed a power role (i mean, seriously who gets excited about being VT) i could still prefer to see a dakky lynch, i wont elaborate about about what role i think he has because i dont want to paint a target on a player who with a bit of luck might become an asset to town, but at this point of day 2 i think a lynch, any lynch is better for us gathering info than no lynch at all, and aside those 2 i dont see any other likely candidates for a D2 lynch, plus in my eyes if one of them turn town, chances are the other is must likely scum and vice versa, giving us a head start for D3

P.S: can the ppl voting Puppy realistically say that this will result on a lynch,voting for him, hotshot, or anyone else besides dakky and mitch at this point isnt the same as voting no lynch, and therefor scummy? FOS DDS FOS BuJ FOS Pika et al

[Ragian]

Yes, as per usual not lynching D1 gets is nowhere

[Pikanchion]

He's clearly dead set on killing Thor, our only confirmed town. I can't...I just can't.

@Pika: I gain absolutely nothing by "defending" both Mitch and Dakky. I'm simply saying we're choosing the easier route because of whom they are, rather than focusing our attention on someone else, whom I imagine are pushing for one or the either just as hard. Also, I believe Dakky has stated he can kill whomever, and if Thor is on that wagon, I can guarantee we lose two town from it. I don't understand how this is flying over your head.

So now you can guarantee that dakky21 is town even though he's "clearly dead set" on killing Thorthoth? Well obviously the fact dakky21 is town based on this compelling evidence is clear for all to see... Is this a Cop claim or are you scum?

Unvote: dakky21
Vote: DirtyDishSoap

Im not sure if you're purposefully being dense or are being silly for the sake of it.
Dakky flips scum, kills thor, we lose another the following night.
Dakky flips town, kills thor, we lose another the following night.

Is none of this getting through?

How can you ever assume that somebody who says they will kill the confirmed townie is also town (and telling the truth)? I can't believe somebody would act so anti-town if they were town, so the only way I can explain dakky21's actions is to be the actions of a desperate scum trying to push people off the lynch by muddying the waters with statements that would be entirely nonsensical for somebody who is actually town to say. You apparently falling for this and discarding all rational explanations for things under the guise of "the meta" is ridiculous.

We're relying Pika's prediction at this point. Vote Dakky, hope he's a bomb and sacrifice Mitch (or whomever) and then go into the night phase OR Dakky can shoot whomever he wants that was on the wagon, kill x player (Given his adamancy for Thor, I'd say it's pretty likely), lose 2 town, and then another (It's highly unlikely it'll be blocked/saved/whatever), the following night.

I hate the idea behind. And the fact that I'm getting a Mandy déjà vu moment here, where everyone plays "Follow Da Leader" and we have a repeat. That latter part is more terrifying to me.

In Lion King Mafia nobody had claimed cult, this closer to debating whether a claimed cultist is the recruiter or a follower than the debate over whether cults exist in the game at all.

why ppl like pika are unvoting dakky now?

I'll revote dakky21 when we get a replacement or a deadline assuming nothing drastic changes. Currently a town dakky21 (who is telling the truth about their role) can kill anybody even if they're not on the wagon, and a scum dakky21 likely just kills the hammer voter who I still think we should decide on collectively, I don't see unvoting now as the same act of self-preservation as I did previously when the assumption was town dakky21 would only be able to kill from the bandwagon.

[madmitch]

WTF ??? I am scum if I don't get on the Dakky wagon , I get on and now people are getting of,

[Kamikaze Jawa]

How can you ever assume that somebody who says they will kill the confirmed townie is also town (and telling the truth)? I can't believe somebody would act so anti-town if they were town, so the only way I can explain dakky21's actions is to be the actions of a desperate scum trying to push people off the lynch by muddying the waters with statements that would be entirely nonsensical for somebody who is actually town to say.

This logic is why I am keeping my vote on dakky.

[DirtyDishSoap]

He's clearly dead set on killing Thor, our only confirmed town. I can't...I just can't.

@Pika: I gain absolutely nothing by "defending" both Mitch and Dakky. I'm simply saying we're choosing the easier route because of whom they are, rather than focusing our attention on someone else, whom I imagine are pushing for one or the either just as hard. Also, I believe Dakky has stated he can kill whomever, and if Thor is on that wagon, I can guarantee we lose two town from it. I don't understand how this is flying over your head.

So now you can guarantee that dakky21 is town even though he's "clearly dead set" on killing Thorthoth? Well obviously the fact dakky21 is town based on this compelling evidence is clear for all to see... Is this a Cop claim or are you scum?

Unvote: dakky21
Vote: DirtyDishSoap

Im not sure if you're purposefully being dense or are being silly for the sake of it.
Dakky flips scum, kills thor, we lose another the following night.
Dakky flips town, kills thor, we lose another the following night.

Is none of this getting through?

How can you ever assume that somebody who says they will kill the confirmed townie is also town (and telling the truth)? I can't believe somebody would act so anti-town if they were town, so the only way I can explain dakky21's actions is to be the actions of a desperate scum trying to push people off the lynch by muddying the waters with statements that would be entirely nonsensical for somebody who is actually town to say. You apparently falling for this and discarding all rational explanations for things under the guise of "the meta" is ridiculous.

And here we have a classic case of WIFOM. Is dakky so scummy that he is scum and makes a half coherent case about Thor, our mod confirmed townie, just to get lynched for the sake of killing the hammer, or is he playing town so badly to appear scummy to get a wagon so he can shoot who he pleases? You're on one end of the spectrum, I'm on the other. No reason to make this any more complicated than it somehow is. And no, I'm not hiding under the meta argument (really?), I'm using it just as rationally as you, but you're just tunneling in on only one side without any consideration for a recourse. Huge difference between us on that.

@Flores I can't see either being scum. I really can't. But as I said, two posts ago, big and bold, more than willing to go along with the plan at a later time. Can't really call it a no lynch if we all at least come to an agreement that we do something before a deadline if there is ever one.

[Thorthoth]

For everyone's reference:

Of course we can get around this binary paradox by assuming dakky is one of the following three options:
1. scum.
or
2. town, but...
2A. town that is playing so detrimentally to town's interests that his elimination will therefore benefit town.
or
2B. town with a brilliant vengeful power and strategy that his elimination will therefore benefit town.

[Pikanchion]

And here we have a classic case of WIFOM. Is dakky so scummy that he is scum and makes a half coherent case about Thor, our mod confirmed townie, just to get lynched for the sake of killing the hammer, or is he playing town so badly to appear scummy to get a wagon so he can shoot who he pleases? You're on one end of the spectrum, I'm on the other. No reason to make this any more complicated than it somehow is. And no, I'm not hiding under the meta argument (really?), I'm using it just as rationally as you, but you're just tunneling in on only one side without any consideration for a recourse. Huge difference between us on that.

And which of these is the poisoned chalice?

[HotShot53]

P.S: can the ppl voting Puppy realistically say that this will result on a lynch,voting for him, hotshot, or anyone else besides dakky and mitch at this point isnt the same as voting no lynch, and therefor scummy? FOS DDS FOS BuJ FOS Pika et al

Since there is no deadline yet... there is still a decent chance of building a case and lynching someone else, if people actually believe both mitch and dakky are town. I however still think dakky is a desperate scum just trying to sneak out of a lynch by trying to seem dangerous, so my vote will stay on him.

[Samlen]

Well I am screwed either way, get on the BW for Dakky or I will get voted out, Skoffin wants me to hammer him so I die for sure ,but I am not ready to leave this game yet,Dakky will pick me for sure if I get on the BW ,I like my town role and would like to live for another day, If there is another wagon that you guys want me to join I will join it

@ZaBeast I took this to mean that mitch was hinting that he was non-vanilla and wanted to use whatever abilities, otherwise what would be the point in phrasing it that way.



I'm probably more open to the possibility of mud than dakky; what are the essential points against him though? Most of what I'm getting scummy vibes but not much to explain it.

Not sure about the others but I got it from his post right after thor was confirmed town.

lol... OK, then.

Unvote, Vote Hotshot

It just felt like a vote to lynch and with no care who it was. It just threw me off. They might also be doing it for inactivity? I haven't been terribly active either though so idk about that point.

[BuJaber]

We didn't abandon the dakky vote. Dakky is scum as far as I'm concerned but we waited a very long time without a lynch, and until a deadline is introduced the holdouts will not vote for him. So until such a deadline is introduced or a replacement for Ice is found who may introduce a new perspective, we are trying a new case. Then we can lynch dakky when more people would be willing to join the bandwagon. Plus DDS has voted for my suspect and I had to show him that I mean what I say.

[Pikanchion]

We didn't abandon the dakky vote. Dakky is scum as far as I'm concerned but we waited a very long time without a lynch, and until a deadline is introduced the holdouts will not vote for him. So until such a deadline is introduced or a replacement for Ice is found who may introduce a new perspective, we are trying a new case. Then we can lynch dakky when more people would be willing to join the bandwagon. Plus DDS has voted for my suspect and I had to show him that I mean what I say.

^ this, everything to be said about a dakky21 lynch had been said and so now while we wait for a replacement there's not much to do but work out who might be a good choice for tomorrow.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

To be honest, I half-wish we would just lynch the role-formerly-played-by-Ice just to keep the game from stalling. Though in saying that I'm fairly convinced that role is vanilla town (Could easily be wrong, there's no way of knowing. I just wonder if he had been more likely to stick out the earlier aggressiveness if he had a more interesting role). Just musings though, don't get all serious on me and think I'm scum :p

Anyway as said earlier I'm content to keep my vote on dakky. My vote tomorrow will likely be mitch at this point because I agree with others opinions that his weird defense of dakky came across as dodgy.

[Minister Masket]

Apologies, my wonderful internet provider decided to not provide any internet at all yesterday. Legit excuse.

If you believe dakky is scum you should vote for him. Losing a townie while killing a scum is still a net gain. However, I don't think we'd have a vengeful scum that can shoot whoever he wants, because that would just give scum a free kill. And if that's the case, I can't blame dakky for entertaining the thought that thor could be a third party.

Depends on the townie's role.

A net gain in terms of numbers yes, but if the role if sufficiently powerful, then it's possible the town could lose out on overall influence. Granted it doesn't look like that'll be the case here but still, worth bearing in mind.

And actually, I suspect it's very possible the scum could have a free kill. Look at what happened N1. Did the game's doc do the extremely unlikely and happened to protect the scum's kill, or are there more ways in the game to prevent/divert kills? If it's the latter, don't rule out scum having slightly more firepower for balance.

[Skoffin]

on mob

In every game of Lovo's that I can remember every dingle scum was a power role. For this game I am assuming that the scum here too have extra power.

[dakky21]

In every game of Lovo's that I can remember every dingle scum was a power role. For this game I am assuming that the scum here too have extra power.

I'm assuming this is a bastard setup due to me being vengeful, as I never seen that modifier before. When it turns out I was saying the truth, it will not be so weird that Thoroth "the mod-confirmed townie" maybe isn't what the mod says. Just saying... and to reply to all previous posts, I won't be going for Thor directly, rather a pool of few scummy people and then random. Thor is probably 3rd party which has "confirmed as town by mod" in his role, he can be SK or something else, but I'll go for someone from my lynch despite I can kill anyone, even those not on a lynch.