The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[madmitch]

Just waiting to see if there is a counter claim before I unvote, nothing personal Mud,

[Minister Masket]

Be careful, Hotshot, I've gotten three-ish votes for being that reasonable

Two actually. You got my vote for trying to take me out, a mistake which hopefully will be your final undoing.

Almost every game where someone half claims with a name only, it's because they are scum and don't want to mess up claiming a role. Yeah, gandalf is a major name... but if scum were given fake claims they could have been given a main name to fake claim. Half claiming only makes me more suspicious, as scum do it way more often than town does. So my vote will stay for now

Even if he is a doctor, as is the current assumption, claiming doesn't mean he's guaranteed to die, or that his death would be in vain. A watcher hasn't been killed yet, so scum would still have to be wary of being caught if they did try to kill him.

SUPER FOS for you Hotshot.
Thorin's Party is a group of FIFTEEN - the 13 dwarves plus Bilbo and Gandalf. Why on Earth would Mod-Lovo pick Gandalf as a fake claim when he has at least 3 spare dwarves to choose from? And that's not even counting the minor characters from the book that could've been used as roles here - Bard, Dain, Elrond, etc. Heck, there's even a surplus of villainous roles to pick from. The remaining scum roles could be any one of Azog, Smaug, The Master, or even the Necromancer.

MudPuppy is confirmed town so long as he is not counter-claimed, I sincerely hope any possible roleblockers out there pay attention to you this night phase.

Meanwhile, we are far and away from the point where mass claiming is necessary. Simply getting Ragian to claim is a task I think the town to focus on.

[Ragian]

While I have done nothing right this game so far, you're having a worse game, MM There's no need to correct three-ish to two. Surely, that's within the ish.

Now, an experienced mod would not settle for dwarves as fake claims because it would be too easy for everyone to just flavour claim and then pick out the least important. Game over for scum. This is why seasoned mod Epitaph1 gave us Dumbledore (or whatever his name is) in the Harry Potter game.

Still waiting on Mudpuppy to explain why he is withholding information after being brought to L-2. And I can't believe that people aren't raising eyebrows.

[Thorthoth]

Fucking Gandalf? Why not disclose your power(s)?

as long as no one counterclaim i don't see why he should do that Unvote Puppy

There are two very good reasons to fake-claim Gandalf at L-2. Firstly it slows the lynch bandwagon to a standstill while everybody debates the possibility, and secondly, It could put the the real Gandalf on the spot to claim, though a savvy Gandalf might not rise to the bait.

btw, I don't know who Gandalf is.. but I do have a good hypothesis of what his power might be...

If nobody counterclaims that then I think it may be about the right time for a mass "fluff claim" (character names only), from town's common perspective we are currently left with only two unknown players who are likely to be town Power Roles (the two of Bard, Balin, and Dwalin who are not played by Thorthoth), with two who are [town-sided but] not [Power Roles] (the players of Óin and Glóin), one player who is already known to be a Power Role (MudPuppy), two who are already known not to be (Thorthoth & Minister Masket), and five others who are either vanilla or scum (the players of Nori, Ori, Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur).

I'm not sure if your flavour guesses are right... (Bard, Balin, and Dwalin are three roles, not two...) but maybe it would be good time to make everybody fluff claim, except me, because nobody knows my name yet and scum might trip up. Though if scum just gets mod-handed a list of 'safe' fake roles then that strategy gets skewered.

@ LoVo, don't worry about me being chilly, just re-do the vote count... and this time take your time and do it right.

[ZaBeast]

- Mudpuppy seems to be the popular choice. I could defo vote for him. We would learn a lot from lynching him (if town, I'd presume ZaBeast and Flores are scum, maybe even BuJ too; and if scum, I'd exonerate the three and it should be smooth sailing from here).

You can't say you'd vote for someone, but him flipping town would make the persons that built the case scummy and not you.
And you're jumping the gun a little don't you think? There's 12 of us left, with probably 3 of us being scum. Anyone building cases has a chance of hitting town, and I don't see how me being wrong on one would make me super scummy. Unless you think my case on MP was BS, then sure, go ahead. But then, why would you be disposed to vote for him? You know who has no chance of building wrong cases btw? people who don't build them at all.

I have absolutely no problem fluff claiming. I dislike withholding information regardless of tactics, but I reserve the right to the exact same thing.

Now, an experienced mod would not settle for dwarves as fake claims because it would be too easy for everyone to just flavour claim and then pick out the least important. Game over for scum. This is why seasoned mod Epitaph1 gave us Dumbledore (or whatever his name is) in the Harry Potter game.

So do you think a name claim is useful or not? You can't just say one thing and the opposite when it suits you. Unvote Vote Ragian

I could be convinced to do a mass name claim (but really, the ones I'm really interested about are Rag's and mitch's since they soft-claimed some sore of power). Scum know each other, so they know whether mitch or rag are telling the truth. As townies, they would have no reason to lie about having a power role. For town, it's harder to tell. Bottom line: with or without a name claim, scum will have enough juicy targets for a few nights. With a name claim, we'll potentially be able to see if the fake power roles are really town-sided and force them to full-claim if not. I'd like to know where pika is taking his list and why the cutoff for power roles was made where it is before we go this way though (if it's possible without claiming).

Btw, Sam, next time you vote, remember to bold it out. Has it realy been that long since the last time ?
mitch, your vote is not valid since it's not in green.

[Ragian]

I didn't, though. But okay, I'm Beorn.

And no, I don't believe flavour claiming will help. Then the game would be over by now. I'm not sure how you think that the things you underlined from my quotes are contradictory. First, I say I have no problem claiming flavour (because it won't help catch scum) and second I expand on why.

[madmitch]

@ Beast thanks , forgot which game I am , would have been interesting in , good thing I didn't reveal my role

[Ragian]

Also, it's only common sense to presume something about others based on someone's flip. It is noted that you start fearing making cases the minute you are held accountable for them.

[ZaBeast]

I didn't, though. But okay, I'm Beorn.

And no, I don't believe flavour claiming will help. Then the game would be over by now. I'm not sure how you think that the things you underlined from my quotes are contradictory. First, I say I have no problem claiming flavour(because it won't help catch scum) and second I expand on why.

Interesting choice of words. So you're for fluff claiming because you and your scummates have good fake claims? Makes sense though. I don't see why you'd be for a fluff claim otherwise if you think it's useless.
For those interested, Beorn is the other dwarf king (the one that rides a boar of some sort). Appears in the battle in the third movie.

Also, it's only common sense to presume something about others based on someone's flip. It is noted that you start fearing making cases the minute you are held accountable for them.

What I'm saying is you can't vote for someone, then throw the stone at the people who started the case. Either you vote for him, or try to defend him (or at least, not vote for him) and then I'd understand if you'd FOS/vote me on that basis. FOSing people who did the same as you is as nonsensical as your case on MM earlier.

[Ragian]

No, he's not. Beorn is the shapeshifter At least google shit if you're trying to frame me.

And stop deliberating misrepresenting me. Flavour claiming WON'T help catch scum BECAUSE the mod would have given fake claims that are not easily picked out (perhaps Gandalf, who knows?) like minor dwarves (no pun intended).

Have you ever been in a game where scum made a case on a townie that other townies followed? Obviously, the townies buying into the case would have to consider the motives of the accuser (hence the word "presume").

Now, let's try an exercise. Here's the case against me as far as I can understand:
1) I gunned hard for MM because of the nature of my role. MM got butthurt and OMGUS-voted me.
2) I aired the possibility that Gandalf might have been provided as a fake claim.

Is there anything else apart from the made up stuff by Beastie?

Now, whoever is not voting for me or anyone else, please make your mind up if you find me scummy enough to vote for me. We need to move this game forward.

[Ragian]

It might actually be skin-changer rather than shapeshifter? I saw the films a week ago, but I can't remember if it's one or the other. Probably doesn't matter.

[BuJaber]

I think thor's post raises an interesting possibility. Claiming Gandalf puts pressure on someone to counter claim and thus reveal themselves to scum. Pika is in favor of MP's half claim but it's a two edged sword because it is definitely a name that makes everyone think twice about lynching.. keeping info hidden comes off a little scummy because it givees town only one option for counter claiming: Gandalf but we can't counter claim the power role because he hasn't stated it.

You haven't done enough for me to think you're scum Ragian. But if you do get lynched it would give us a lot to analyze.

So until someone counter claims, keep the pressure on MP.

Whatever happens, we need both (MP and Ragian) of you to fully claim so we can decide who is more believable.

[ZaBeast]

No, he's not. Beorn is the shapeshifter At least google shit if you're trying to frame me.

Right, I don't know what I was thinking. That wasn't me trying to frame you, it was me getting a brain fart.

Have you ever been in a game where scum made a case on a townie that other townies followed? Obviously, the townies buying into the case would have to consider the motives of the accuser (hence the word "presume").

Because of course, you can't have scum jumping in a case led by a townie that happened to be wrong? You're equally guilty of lynching someone if he flips town, regardless whether your vote is the first or in the last ones.

And stop deliberating misrepresenting me. Flavour claiming WON'T help catch scum BECAUSE the mod would have given fake claims that are not easily picked out (perhaps Gandalf, who knows?) like minor dwarves (no pun intended).

It just makes no sense for me that you'd be for a flavor claim if you think it's useless. Surely scum will have at least a little more info by knowing who the minor characters are, because minor dwarves are a lot less likely to be power roles. As I said, they probably have a good idea of who to target already, but a flavor claim is not the way to go if you don't at least think it could help town.

I'm on the fence about the MP issue. From what I've seen, here are the arguments on both sides
Pros (for a full-claim):

• Will make him more likely to trip up if he full claims, if he is scum
• Still a risky target for scum, even if he outs himself as doc for instance, because there could still be a tracker on town's side.

Cons (agains a full claim)

• If he's town, scum can know his power and decide better whether to target him

Did I missed something before I make up my mind?
btw, @thor, I believe he is Gandalf or has Gandalf as a fake claim. It is far better to counter a name claim than out your power role by countering a role claim

Now, let's try an exercise. Here's the case against me as far as I can understand:
1) I gunned hard for MM because of the nature of my role. MM got butthurt and OMGUS-voted me.
2) I aired the possibility that Gandalf might have been provided as a fake claim.

Your case on MM looked pretty fishy tbh. You might have just gone on a tangeant out of nowhere, but to me, it looked like a way to make you look like a useful townie without commiting much. If we find out the scum team has a tracker and you're not dead by then, you can be sure I'll vote for you.

[Ragian]

Right. Don't really care about the tracker bit. You're coming for me now...

Anyway, I'm not saying at all that if I vote off a townie, it's not on me, but knowing that I'm town, I don't have to consider my own alignment. That's for others to do. Regarding my case on MM, it will make sense when light is shed on everything eventually. Even to you. I hope. Or you will think I'm thick, but that's cool too. Last, but not least, I'm not saying I'm FOR a flavour claim, I'm saying I have no problem flavour claiming despite believing that it does not win the game for town. But as a townie, I roll with the majority at this early stage (apart from the stuff below).

@BuJ, you want us both to claim? 1) I'm not playing by the rules if the other kids aren't and 2) bring me to L-2 if you want a claim.

What about everyone mass flavour claiming? Did that die because two important flavour roles turned up?

[lord voldemort]

Vote Count 3.3


Ragian (4): Minister Masket, Pikanchion, FloresDelMal, ZaBeast
madmitch (2): Kamikaze Jawa, Thorthoth
MudPuppy (2): BuJaber, Hotshot53,



Not Voting (4): madmitch, MudPuppy, Ragian, Samlen



With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
There is now a deadline in place. Click here

Also can we please make sure votes are BOLD AND THIS GREEN or anything brighter

[FloresDelMal]

I didn't, though. But okay, I'm Beorn.

And no, I don't believe flavour claiming will help. Then the game would be over by now. I'm not sure how you think that the things you underlined from my quotes are contradictory. First, I say I have no problem claiming flavour(because it won't help catch scum) and second I expand on why.

Interesting choice of words. So you're for fluff claiming because you and your scummates have good fake claims? Makes sense though. I don't see why you'd be for a fluff claim otherwise if you think it's useless.

this is an interesting point, it could be poor phrasing but it could also be a slip, still don't help ragian's case, i have no clue who epitaph1 is or how seasoned a mod he might be, but the games i used to play with some of the seasoned veterans in this community didn't have in their themed games hyper high profile key characters as fake claims for scum to grab, most of the time scum didn't even have fake claims, the couple of times i got to be a scumster in the past i had to go deep into the reasearch for come up myself with a plausible claim, that's why i am way more inclined that such a prominent figure on "The Hobbit" as Gandalf can not be anything else than a pro town power role, and i think it works on our favor that this power could stay hidden for now, i don't like how puppy is playing, but then i disliked too thor's trolling ways, but he has happily improved, and im still kinda bothered by MM's level of activity, but my level of discomfort with their playing style on this specific game does not make them any less townie in my eyes, i think that there is scum to find amongst the ppl still voting puppy despite claiming such a key player on the LOTR lore so ill just go ahead and FOS everyone still voting puppy.

Now about Beorn i think is the kind of fake claim that smart scumster could be likely to find through research, he is not part of the company, he just gave them asylum as a favor to Gandalf, but the guy was a loner, making it in my eyes more of a third party kinda character than town, maybe a vigilante in the best case scenario, since his strength and physical prowess was highlighted in the narrative, but i do not believe that Beorn could be present on this game, i think it is a fake claim, and that's why my vote is staying where it is, for the ppl not familiar with the lore here is a bit of info that i hope will be helpful:

The first impression given from Gandalf to the dwarves and Bilbo was portraying Beorn as a loner, strange and somehow dangerous, this last characteristic is confirmed in the second mention of his name:

« He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin; sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard. I cannot tell you much more, though that ought to be enough. »

« He had very few friends and they lived a good way away; and he never invited more than a couple of these to his house at a time. »

« The Somebody I spoke of-a very great person. You must all be very polite when I introduce you. I shall introduce you slowly, two by two, I think; and you must be careful not to annoy him, or heaven knows what will happen. He can be appalling when he is angry, though he is kind enough if humoured. Still I warn you he gets angry easily. »

So until someone counter claims, keep the pressure on MP.

Whatever happens, we need both (MP and Ragian) of you to fully claim so we can decide who is more believable.

until someone counter claims keep the pressure? how does this works? if he is saying the truth about being Gandalf no one will counter claim and i do believe him, still he should shape up, because his participation leaves a lot to be desired, but since i do believe him i could prefer he doesn't give away any more information for scum to take into consideration, i am against puppy giving a full claim, and i am against any kind of claim when not under pressure, i do not believe in Ragian thought.

What about everyone mass flavour claiming? Did that die because two important flavour roles turned up?

I am against mass claiming, if we work under the presumption that scum have plausible fake claims i don't see how doing this will help us, on the contrary, i think it will further the scumster agenda by helping them to better choose their targets, but i am more interested in why are you are interested in mass claiming when you expressed "I have no problem claiming flavour because it won't help catch scum", it seems that right now you could prefer that town get sidetracked with a mass claim even thought it will hurt us and not scum.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

2) bring me to L-2 if you want a claim.

Then allow me to unvote mitch vote Raigan, and that brings us to L-2.

I'm still very much suspicious of mitch, but we have 3 days before the lynch and practically everyone else has given up on lynching him so it's pointless keeping my vote on him for now.

I think Raigan is a feasible target, he did push for a lynch against MM on Day 1 and 2, defended dakky, and been role-fishing quite a bit. I also wonder if it was a slip when he still went for MM for another post or two after MM claimed mason, after the rest of us had basically accepted the claim as true.

[Thorthoth]

Unvote. Vote Ragian.

[Thorthoth]

Oh yeah, and my reasoning for that vote is like KamakaziJawa's.

[ZaBeast]

So for me it's a choice between HS and mitch. If we start early this game maybe we can force a few claims so since HS is probably the easier bandwagon to build... Vote Hotshot.

(early D2)

Whatever happens, we need both (MP and Ragian) of you to fully claim so we can decide who is more believable.

(now)
You know, it's for stuff like that that I'm REALLY tempted to vote for you. You shouldn't be asking which one is the most believable. You should be asking if you believe the claim of the one you find the scummiest, then move on if the answer is yes. Going around asking for unnecessary claims is super scummy imo.

@Ragian
I think you've been scum often enough to realize that getting role blocked/jailed/whatever doesn't affect their ability to talk at night, so I don't see how you would think masons would be a different case.

[Ragian]

Right. When you guys balls up to actually lynch me (should be close now), go for the following next day: Flores and KJ.

vote KJ

Brilliant play of mudpuppy if he's scum. Stay quiet while someone else does your dirty work.

@Beast, you might think that. But when my role description explains that my action impedes all night actions and you guys agree with me that masons talking at night is an action, what am I to do?

This hasn't been my best game, but luckily I'm far from the worst player right now

Town (however retarded)
- Thor
- MM

Most likely town (after all that has transpired today)
- BuJ
- Mitch
- Hotshot

Most likely scum
- KJ
- Flores

Don't know
- Beast
- Pika
- Samlen

So, lynch the two scummy ones the next two days, and we should be fine. Town need new people leading the charge, though. I expect more from hotshot.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

Right. When you guys balls up to actually lynch me (should be close now), go for the following next day: Flores and KJ.

vote KJ

I'm far from the only person who voted for you, and I certainly wasn't the first. You said you'd claim at L-2, so where is your claim? All you've done in response is put through an OMGUS vote.

[MudPuppy]

You're taking typos way too personally.

There are other reasons to suspect BuJ, however.

Seem scummy (from most scummy to least scummy)
- BuJ (mason thing, Flores thing, keeps FOS on MM)
- ZaBeast (discrepancy between outing MM and not wanting MM to claim after being outed, wanted information from me due to the MM-scandal)....

Oh well, that was my rant. I'll vote BuJ as he seems most scummy to me. If nothing else, the fight is always fun, and BuJ has first said that I looked town, then said I looked scummy, then back to town. It would be nice with a third flipflop

You've been flip-flopping too... Don't understand why BuJ is now townish in your eyes... was it his Pika "trap" where he built an insincere case or his push to have all masons in the game out themselves that convinced you he isn't scum? Please explain your change of heart in more detail.

Still waiting on Mudpuppy to explain why he is withholding information after being brought to L-2. And I can't believe that people aren't raising eyebrows.

@BuJ, you want us both to claim? 1) I'm not playing by the rules if the other kids aren't and 2) bring me to L-2 if you want a claim.

You call me out for not making a full claim at L-2 but then won't do it yourself because MudPuppy isn't "playing by the rules"?!?!? You're really going to equate Beorn not revealing his role to Gandalf not revealing his role? Revealing my power could hurt town... are you making the same argument, shapeshifter... or are you just making a final attempt to role fish?

FOS Ragian and more than willing to hammer... full claim, please.

[Minister Masket]

2) bring me to L-2 if you want a claim.

Then allow me to unvote mitch vote Raigan, and that brings us to L-2.

I'm still very much suspicious of mitch, but we have 3 days before the lynch and practically everyone else has given up on lynching him so it's pointless keeping my vote on him for now.

I think Raigan is a feasible target, he did push for a lynch against MM on Day 1 and 2, defended dakky, and been role-fishing quite a bit. I also wonder if it was a slip when he still went for MM for another post or two after MM claimed mason, after the rest of us had basically accepted the claim as true.

Unvote. Vote Ragian.

I believe it was a slip.
However if Ragian doesn't turn out to be scum (and I can't in all honesty say with 100% conviction that I truly believe he is), then these two votes are going to look MEGA suspicious. Even I wasn't expecting Ragian to come close to a lynch this early.

And for goodness sake, let's drop this idea of Gandalf being a friggin fake-claim. Depending on how you look at it, he's either the 2nd or 3rd (swapping with Theorn) most important character. I would eat my proverbial hat if Mod-Lovo made him one.
Far more likely (if there are fake claims) that he sprinkled a couple minor dwarves in there along with one or two Small Role, Big Impact characters like Elrond, or hey, what about Beorn?!. He only appears in two scenes in the book, so I can't see him being included as a town role in a game of this size.

So my vote stays, and I hope someone drops the hammer.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

2) bring me to L-2 if you want a claim.

Then allow me to unvote mitch vote Raigan, and that brings us to L-2.

I'm still very much suspicious of mitch, but we have 3 days before the lynch and practically everyone else has given up on lynching him so it's pointless keeping my vote on him for now.

I think Raigan is a feasible target, he did push for a lynch against MM on Day 1 and 2, defended dakky, and been role-fishing quite a bit. I also wonder if it was a slip when he still went for MM for another post or two after MM claimed mason, after the rest of us had basically accepted the claim as true.

Unvote. Vote Ragian.

I believe it was a slip.
However if Ragian doesn't turn out to be scum (and I can't in all honesty say with 100% conviction that I truly believe he is), then these two votes are going to look MEGA suspicious. Even I wasn't expecting Ragian to come close to a lynch this early.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting it to be a near lynch so suddenly either. I just figured that everyone hopped off the mitch wagon, we had three days left to figure out what to do, and Raigan was talking about claiming if he got the one more vote. So I voted. Thor is town, so it's really just me that'll look suspicious but I figured I would.