The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[Ragian]

He won't look good, though. As a confirmed townie, you need to up your game instead of leaning back and do nothing because you feel invincible. Confirmed townie equals responsibility. You don't seem able to fill out those shoes.

[Ragian]

I am, however, looking forward to you playing the "Oh well, Ragian played poorly...nothing town could do" card instead of examining and developing your play

[MudPuppy]

For whoever has not gotten it: I am Beorn. I'm town jailkeeper. I jailed MM both nights. This has already been deduced (well, abduced really) by Beast (I think).

Now, either kill me or move on.

Thank you... however, your delay has left us little time to put pressure on someone else... I'm not inclined to lynch a possible jailkeeper, especially since he seemed townish to me... up until today, at least.

Will join your vote to see if we can get pressure on KJ fast enough but we've basically just got another day (or day and a half if you count what is Tuesday night for most folks).

Unvote, Vote KJ

[Pikanchion]

For whoever has not gotten it: I am Beorn. I'm town jailkeeper. I jailed MM both nights. This has already been deduced (well, abduced really) by Beast (I think).

Then how could you still believe Minister Masket scum after they killed succesfully last night, and why would you draw this out for so long under deadline as to force town to either no lynch or speed lynch? The latter of which being an entirely scummy thing to do.

Moreover as a "Jailkeeper" how exactly are you claiming your role to function? The description of events from both your and Minister Masket's perspectives read much more like that of some generic roleblocker than those of what are commonly the traits of a Jailor specifically, for instance do you also protect your target from being killed, submit your night action during the preceeding day phase, or have the ability to communicate with your target?

[Minister Masket]

You may have answered this amongst your other posts Ragian, but why did you still think I was lying after Skoffin died and I came forward as her mason? I can sort of understand now why you voted me before, but there's still that timeframe there between my claiming and you being informed about passive abilities that bothers me.

[lord voldemort]

Vote Count 3.5


Ragian (5): Minister Masket, Pikanchion, FloresDelMal, Kamikaze Jawa, Thorthoth,
Kamikaze Jawa (2): Ragian, MudPuppy
BuJaber (2): ZaBeast, Samlen
MudPuppy (1): Hotshot53


Not Voting (2): madmitch, BuJaber



With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
There is now a deadline in place. Click here Approx 36 hours.....

Also can we please make sure votes are BOLD AND THIS GREEN or anything brighter[/quote]

[HotShot53]

A jailkeeper claim isn't guaranteed to be town, as a scum rolebloker could masqueraded as a jailkeeper without stretching their role too far. However, based on Ragian's reaction with thinking he caught MM lying, I am leaning town on him for now. I'm not sure a scum roleblocker would have been that obvious he was a roleblocker on a gambit.

[madmitch]

@ Rags thanks, now I know what to do VOTE KJ

[Kamikaze Jawa]

So out of curiousity, is there any actual reason you guys are voting me or just 'Raig is, so I will'? I voted to get a claim, one which took multiple posts to get Raig to finally give. So far it's just a series of OMGUS votes. Which is fine, but if you're suddenly going to try and speed lynch me with 36 hours before the vote, I'd like to know what your actual thoughts are.

[Thorthoth]

Goddammit.
@ ZaBeast & Samlen: I agree that BuJaber is also a likely suspect, but recall haw BuJaber jumped off Ragian when the lynch was getting close.
Let's carpe diem and lynch Ragian, unless you are really opposed, and if so why?

[Thorthoth]

@ Ragian: If you are town, you better be looking forward to being told you played poorly, because it will happen... though I might tell you that even if you're scum

[ZaBeast]

@Mudpuppy, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Your hiding is townie, but mine isn't? BS.

I think he's just butthurt people didn't believe his name claim, but MP's was. I can understand people holding it against him, but I personnally don't. His non-claiming doesn't make sense either way. As a townie he was keeping information to himself (and possibly into his grave). As a scum, he should have claimed also, so he has the chance of getting counter-claimed and letting the rest of the scum team know who is the jailor (if there is one), to the added benefit of looking more townie. And I don't think he would have soft-claimed like that on D2 if he was scum, nor do I think as a scum he would have gotten that far to try to lynch a confirmed townie. Then again, we've already seen something like that on D2...

Then how could you still believe Minister Masket scum after they killed succesfully last night,

Isn't the scum kill being held by a fixed person the exception and not the rule though?

So out of curiousity, is there any actual reason you guys are voting me or just 'Raig is, so I will'? I voted to get a claim, one which took multiple posts to get Raig to finally give. So far it's just a series of OMGUS votes. Which is fine, but if you're suddenly going to try and speed lynch me with 36 hours before the vote, I'd like to know what your actual thoughts are.

I think Rag voted for you because he thinks you skimmed his post where he basically said he wouldn't claim if MP didn't. (Also, it seems you always skim through his name because you've been spelling it wrong for a while now)

Lol, KJ 100% scum. Newbie scared of getting picked out and ignoring my first condition.

@BuJ, you want us both to claim? 1) I'm not playing by the rules if the other kids aren't and 2) bring me to L-2 if you want a claim.

mitch is obviously following ragian, I'd say MP is probably voting for you because he's most comfortable lynching you from the other people that already had votes on them.

Goddammit.
@ ZaBeast & Samlen: I agree that BuJaber is also a likely suspect, but recall haw BuJaber jumped off Ragian when the lynch was getting close.
Let's carpe diem and lynch Ragian, unless you are really opposed, and if so why?

I don't think he's scum, therefore I believe the cons far outweight the pros. BuJ didn't jump off Ragian. He jumped off MP and refused to hammer Ragian. That's either a townie convinced Rag is not scum, or a scum knowing he'll look bad hammering a town PR. But as I said, not offering an alternative feels to me like refusing to take shit for hammering, but still making his lynch the only viable option. Not to say the answer he gave doesn't make sense. Anyways, I'm keeping my vote where it is atm because this is not the only post from BuJ that looked scummy. Depending on who is on the KJ wagon, I might consider voting for him (I don't think a KJ lynch would give us much info based on his interactions with others, but if players I'm suspicious of join the wagon, it could possibly give me better reads.)

@Sam, KJ was on the dakky wagon as well, would you be willing to vote for him as the deadline draws nearer? That also is something that I think could give more info.

3) Who would you think is scummier? Someone who has mostly been inactive, or someone who is a very careful poster in the game, both afraid of slipping up, one by avoiding posting at all, and one by posting very carefully written & timed posts. I'm seeing a pattern of posting (or lack of) from some players; just not sure what would be more scum-indicative.

I'm not sure which one is scummier. I would say that the inactive one is the most expandable of the two, because he's not contributing anyways. Then again, he's also the one that would give the least reads when he dies. Also, he can have RL reasons for his inactivity. It also depends on what you mean by carefully written. Well-thought and slips-checked is not the same thing for instance (but I'm guessing you're talking about slips-checked, well-thought is obviously by no means a scum tell). I guess the question you should ask yourself in the end is, is it alignment-indicative for this specfic person. Because the posting pattern will vary from individuals from individuals.

[Ragian]

@ Ragian: If you are town, you better be looking forward to being told you played poorly, because it will happen... though I might tell you that even if you're scum

If you have read the thread, you will know that I have already conceded that this is not my best game. You're ignoring the point.

@Pika & MM, my role stops ANY night action of my target. Therefore, I believed that that included masons talking. That's the reason why I asked if Masons' talk is considered a night action. You guys gave me that. Hence MM could not have spoken with Skoffin during the night. Moreover, I have played a few games with mason pairs where one is scum and the other town. I know in terms of Fili and Kili that that doesn't make any sense, but I thought I had found scum (especially if you add that N1, I thought I had pulled a Benga).

@Mudpuppy, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Your hiding is townie, but mine isn't? BS.

I think he's just butthurt people didn't believe his name claim, but MP's was.

Indeed. I feel unfairly treated. Gym class all over again.

[Thorthoth]

So where does everybody stand now.
Town:
Thorthoth
Minister Masket

Likely Town:
FloresDelMal: Townie-like, generally playing well.
ZaBeast: Seems townie, but misguided. He needs to prevent a non-lynch.
Samlen: More mysterious than ZaBeast, but seems to be thinking the same way.
Kamikaze Jawa: Also a bit mysterious, but the serious scumsters are trying to lynch him.
HotShot: Except for being quiet he hasn't done anything very scummy, and it's mostly the scummy ones that thought he was scummy.
Pika: He seems to be getting more townish as time goes on, but yeah there are still questions.

Maybe Scum:
madmitch: A chaotic mess. Yeah he could be bad town.. If five would be too many scum then maybe that is the explanation.
BuJaber: He did a lot of scummy things. I f he was the lynch choice, I'd probably accept it... but I think ragian or mudpuppy is a better choice

Likely Scum:
MudPuppy: A real Gandalf shouldn't say he's Gandalf... even if a fake Gandalf pretends to be him.
Ragian: Beorn sounds like a fake claim and Minister said he wasn't jailed, right? So what does that tell you?
All his excuses lack substance, just ad-hoc straw grabbing.

Ragian (5): Minister Masket, Pikanchion, FloresDelMal, Kamikaze Jawa, Thorthoth,
Kamikaze Jawa (3): Ragian, MudPuppy, madmitch,
BuJaber (2): ZaBeast, Samlen,
MudPuppy (1): Hotshot53
Not Voting (1): BuJaber

So anyway, Sam, ZaBeast and HS, if two of the three of you can see fit to lynch Ragian maybe we can move this game forward.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

I think Rag voted for you because he thinks you skimmed his post where he basically said he wouldn't claim if MP didn't. (Also, it seems you always skim through his name because you've been spelling it wrong for a while now)

Aye I'll cop to the skim-reading, I've had an exhausting week and I thought he meant he would claim at L-2 not 'Make MP claim fully and then I'll claim at L-2'. Still, his reaction of an retaliation vote comes across as a OMGUS vote rather than any real thoughts behind it. So does mitch's vote since I voted for him earlier, and on Day 2 after I said dakky was scum and mitch tried to defend him and I said that looked scummy.
And noted on the name, don't know why I thought his name was Raigan instead of Ragian.

We have something like 30+ hours before deadline I believe, with one main bandwagon on Rag, 3 votes on me and 2 on BuJ. We need to decide whether we believe Rags claim, and if so start looking at me or BuJ (or someone else but I think it's unlikely to really start considering anyone else properly with such a short timeframe left).

[Thorthoth]

Ragian (or anyone else for that matter) did not jail me N1 as I was perfectly able to talk to Skoffin (presuming I was the target and that a jailing would mean I lose my night action ability).

Now, at least, you know where I'm coming from. This is my exact reason for calling you a liar. Then, of course, LoVo told me that masonry, apparently, is passive ability and thus can't be stopped despite my action stopping my target from using any night ability. I just don't get it.

@Mudpuppy, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Your hiding is townie, but mine isn't? BS.

1. Minister has shredded Ragian's claim.
2. Please. LoVo didn't tell him anything.
3.Ragian: ''Hey MudPuppy, you make a fake claim and I will too! Town won't know which end is up''.

[HotShot53]

Ragian (or anyone else for that matter) did not jail me N1 as I was perfectly able to talk to Skoffin (presuming I was the target and that a jailing would mean I lose my night action ability).

Now, at least, you know where I'm coming from. This is my exact reason for calling you a liar. Then, of course, LoVo told me that masonry, apparently, is passive ability and thus can't be stopped despite my action stopping my target from using any night ability. I just don't get it.

@Mudpuppy, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Your hiding is townie, but mine isn't? BS.

1. Minister has shredded Ragian's claim.
2. Please. LoVo didn't tell him anything.
3.Ragian: ''Hey MudPuppy, you make a fake claim and I will too! Town won't know which end is up''.

The thing is, jailing/roleblocking doesn't get processed until the end of the night when all the other night actions get processed... but mason's talking, just like scum talking, happens throughout the night. So a jailer/roleblocker can't really block it because they talk before the roleblock would go into action. That's why roleblocking doesn't affect masons talking any more than it affects scum talking.

[Samlen]

@zabeast I wouldn't be against a kj lynch since none of his actions have stood out town but he's definitely not my first or second choice since I haven't gotten a particularly scummy vibe from him yet.

[Ragian]

@Samlen, who's your first choice?

[BuJaber]

Thor you're misinterpetting the Ragian - MM interaction.

MM did not prove Ragian wrong. MM talking during the night doesn't contradict what Rag is saying. You can think he's a scummy liar if you want I just want to make that clear. Ragian made an error with his assumptions about masons.

If I had to choose between Rag and KJ I'd choose KJ for scum. Problem is if both are town than Ragian dying would be better because it means more info for town.

So I'm between someone who's 50-50 to flip scum and someone I believe is town. But the cost of losing town KJ is so high so I think we should vote no lynch.

Unvote vote No Lynch
Highest count wins we don't need majority for no lynch we just need more than the votes on Rag.

Rag if you survive who would you jail?

[Ragian]

@BuJ, this is from the rules: "8. Lynching requires a majority of the town vote, once the majority has been reached any unvotes will not be counted. The majority is half the player's alive +1." De facto no lynch if no majority is reached.

Also, I don't really like giving out information on whom I'd jail. That seems to be playing into scums' hands. That's an odd thing to ask...

You're right, however, on the lack of information provided by a KJ lynch. He has avoided linking himself to anyone as far as I can tell. Perhaps it's not the best lynch. Unless, of course, you're linking yourself to him right now?

@Samlen, sorry, just saw your vote. I can see your first pick is BuJ.

[ZaBeast]

Also, I don't really like giving out information on whom I'd jail. That seems to be playing into scums' hands. That's an odd thing to ask...

100% agree, if scum can chose who sends in the kill, they'll be able to divert the jailing, or not kill to frame the person you say you'd kill or chose someone else to kill. There's absolutely no benefit to it.

So I'm between someone who's 50-50 to flip scum and someone I believe is town. But the cost of losing town KJ is so high so I think we should vote no lynch.

You mean town Ragian, or which info do you have that says town KJ is an important role?

[ZaBeast]

You mean town Ragian, or which info do you have that says town KJ is an important town role?

I originally kept the same formulation he used, but it just looks wierd in this case. Because we don't know whether KJ is town.

[Ragian]

I'm waiting for a reply from BuJ.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

Also, I don't really like giving out information on whom I'd jail. That seems to be playing into scums' hands. That's an odd thing to ask...

100% agree, if scum can chose who sends in the kill, they'll be able to divert the jailing, or not kill to frame the person you say you'd kill or chose someone else to kill. There's absolutely no benefit to it.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. I think it's too easy for scum to exploit it

You mean town Ragian, or which info do you have that says town KJ is an important role?

I don't think he was saying that he thinks that I'm a power role, he said my death wouldn't reveal any substantial information to help town