Kavanaugh- Alleged victim comes forward

[mookiemcgee]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Ms. Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael ... tnick.html

Points 12 and 13 refer to the serial rape and personal rape, if you need to skip ahead, but the whole thing is pretty damning.

I didn't find a copy of the affidavit in the link you provided. Point out to me again where Swetnick says Kavanaugh raped her. I have not seen it in any of the many, many articles I've read.

Interestingly, it appears the Republicans (not the Democrats) are starting to throw out anything they've received including an anonymous letter from a woman whose daughter saw Kavanuagh throw the daughter's friend up against a wall and a letter from what appears to be a deranged anti-Trumper that Kavanaugh and Judge raped a woman on a boat in New Hampshire somewhere. So, with little or no shame, the Republicans are now apparently engaged in an effort to link Ford's accusation to these other, much less tenable, accusations. A Democratic senator apparently thinks as much.

Click image to enlarge.

Read #13, that's the most direct link she's making between Kav and herself.

[thegreekdog]

Ramirez described sexual assault. She did not describe sexual assault by Kavanaugh because she did not see Kavanaugh do it. Now, your response is "someone else did see it" but then a whole lot of other someone elses said Kavanaugh didn't do it.

Swetnick described gang rape. She did not describe herself or anyone else getting gang raped by Kavanaugh.

This is fairly simple to understand. The only person accusing Kavanaugh of doing anything to her is Ford. Everyone else is, at worst, saying Kavanaugh went to parties with sexual assaulters and rapists. This, in and of itself, is bad and I think is grounds for disqualifying him. But either the dude was a serial sexual assaulter and rapist from ages 15 to 21 and then suddenly stopped or he was at parties where people did bad things to women.

Would you like to read the sworn affidavit from Ms. Swetnick? It's readily available online if you're interested, but you can find a copy here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael ... tnick.html

Points 12 and 13 refer to the serial rape and personal rape, if you need to skip ahead, but the whole thing is pretty damning.

11 seem like alot of conjecture on her part. I mean she doesn't specifically say anything except that she "thinks" they made the punch stronger. with all due respect punch is always spiked at high school parties, and that isn't because all men want to run trains on women. It just means they are there to get drunk without parents seeing them drink from booze bottles.

12 and 13 are pretty heavy stuff. Again 12 is really just what she 'thinks' happened to others, no real first hand knowledge is implied outside of seeing men standing in a hallway.

13 though, man that's tough stuff to read. And it's heartbreaking that they didn't go to authorities back then, cus frankly it's just more he said she said now after so much time. The only way I see this derailing the nomination is if someone named as complicit (rather than a victim) confirms it via affidavit. Now that could sink the ship. Again, 'rape babies' make excellent evidence.

It's disgusting and it should never happen and Kavanaugh should be ashamed he was there (regardless of how old he was at the time).

However, Swetnick did not accuse Kavanaugh of raping or sexually assaulting her.

Also, I did read the affidavit. I've read it at least twice including those parts and not once did Swetnick accuse Kavanaugh of raping or sexually assaulting her. Words matter. The scenario itself should disqualify him as a Supreme Court justice, but he should not be labelled a rapist of Swetnick even if he was at a party where she was gang raped.

[Symmetry]

From Ms Swetnick's affidavit to the Senate:

12 I also witnessed efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to cause girls to become inebriated and disoriented so they could then be "gang raped" in a side room or bedroom by a "train" of numerous boys. I have a firm recollection of seeing boys lined up outside rooms at many of these parties waiting for their "turn" with a girl inside the room. These boys included Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh.

13 In approximately 1982, I became the victim of one of these "gang" or "train" rapes where Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh were present. Shortly after the incident, I shared what had transpired with at least two other people. During the incident, I was incapacitated without my consent and unable to fight off the boys raping me. I believe I was drugged using Quualudes or something similar placed in what I was drinking.

And you guys, together, can only come up with a rebuttal that maybe Kavanaugh wasn't involved in that particular drugging and rape?

[HitRed]

Is it likely to hide week after week of gang rapes at any school? Bad news in high school travels fast.

[Symmetry]

Is it likely to hide week after week of gang rapes at any school? Bad news travels at lightspeed in high school.

Nope- that's how investigative reporters found out about the other victims. They asked around. Turns out Brett Kavanaugh was kind of well known for this stuff, and then the women started coming forward.

Thanks for pointing that part out though- I know Kavanaugh tried to use it as a defence before a lot of his classmates basically backed up what these women are saying.

[HitRed]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

[saxitoxin]

Is it likely to hide week after week of gang rapes at any school? Bad news travels at lightspeed in high school.

Nope- that's how investigative reporters found out about the other victims. They asked around. Turns out Brett Kavanaugh was kind of well known for this stuff, and then the women started coming forward.

Thanks for pointing that part out though- I know Kavanaugh tried to use it as a defence before a lot of his classmates basically backed up what these women are saying.

LOL that's not what happened at all. The women hired lawyers and publicists and cold called a desk editor sitting on a BA degree in journalism from a land grant college. There was no deep throat style investigative journalism.

[saxitoxin]

This is actually a great thread, though. It's like old days CC. Symm gets 200 SaxBucks.

[Neoteny]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

I for one am shocked that these authority figures were kept out of the loop.

[Neoteny]

This is actually a great thread, though. It's like old days CC. Symm gets 200 SaxBucks.

Daaamn. Fresh off the press. Watch for inflation.

[HitRed]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

I for one am shocked that these authority figures were kept out of the loop.

Bill Clinton kept them quiet.

[Symmetry]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

I don't see anything describing weeks long rapes. I don't know where you're getting that from.

You can probably figure out why a kid might not report it at the time though. Just look at what happens nowadays to women who come forward.

TGD is reduced to a "he maybe raped women, but this woman is lying about being raped by him in particular" kinda defence.
Saxi thinks they're in it for the publicity.
Mooks needs DNA evidence before he'll believe a woman before a man. More women don't count, apparently.

This is in the era of MeToo. How terrifying must it have been for these women when they were drugged and raped by a group of powerful rich guys who essentially couldn't be touched by the law in the 80's.

C'mon HR- you can figure this one out.

[Neoteny]

I think we're going to see something miraculous tomorrow. We're going to see a man, clearly unable to remember anything of note while his employer lied and tortured his way through the middle east, suddenly have his faculties return to him and he will be able to recount everything he did on any given day in 1982.

[Symmetry]

I think we're going to see something miraculous tomorrow. We're going to see a man, clearly unable to remember anything of note while his employer lied and tortured his way through the middle east, suddenly have his faculties return to him and he will be able to recount everything he did on any given day in 1982.

Well, he does have a calendar.

[HitRed]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

I don't see anything describing weeks long rapes. I don't know where you're getting that from.

You can probably figure out why a kid might not report it at the time though. Just look at what happens nowadays to women who come forward.

TGD is reduced to a "he maybe raped women, but this woman is lying about being raped by him in particular" kinda defence.
Saxi thinks they're in it for the publicity.
Mooks needs DNA evidence before he'll believe a woman before a man. More women don't count, apparently.

This is in the era of MeToo. How terrifying must it have been for these women when they were drugged and raped by a group of powerful rich guys who essentially couldn't be touched by the law in the 80's.

C'mon HR- you can figure this one out.

She mentions the years 1981-1982 and PARTIES is plural. She also uses PARTIES (plural) repeatedly. Read it again. Also uses "at many of these parties"

[Symmetry]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

I don't see anything describing weeks long rapes. I don't know where you're getting that from.

You can probably figure out why a kid might not report it at the time though. Just look at what happens nowadays to women who come forward.

TGD is reduced to a "he maybe raped women, but this woman is lying about being raped by him in particular" kinda defence.
Saxi thinks they're in it for the publicity.
Mooks needs DNA evidence before he'll believe a woman before a man. More women don't count, apparently.

This is in the era of MeToo. How terrifying must it have been for these women when they were drugged and raped by a group of powerful rich guys who essentially couldn't be touched by the law in the 80's.

C'mon HR- you can figure this one out.

She mentions the years 1981-1982 and PARTIES is plural. She also uses PARTIES (plural) repeatedly. Read it again. Also uses "at many of these parties"

Ok- that still doesn't explain what you argued, but let's leave it at you trying to explain plurals before you embarrass yourself further trying to defend Brett Kavanaugh.

[thegreekdog]

Read it again. She is saying these train rapes went on for weeks. No parent, teacher, cop, nun or student ever mentioned it at the time.

I don't see anything describing weeks long rapes. I don't know where you're getting that from.

You can probably figure out why a kid might not report it at the time though. Just look at what happens nowadays to women who come forward.

TGD is reduced to a "he maybe raped women, but this woman is lying about being raped by him in particular" kinda defence.
Saxi thinks they're in it for the publicity.
Mooks needs DNA evidence before he'll believe a woman before a man. More women don't count, apparently.

This is in the era of MeToo. How terrifying must it have been for these women when they were drugged and raped by a group of powerful rich guys who essentially couldn't be touched by the law in the 80's.

C'mon HR- you can figure this one out.

I'm not offering him a defense Sym. I'm simply pointing out that he's not being accused, by anyone, including Swetnick, of raping Swetnick. It's not hard to understand. A person can be a scumbag and likely to have sexually assaulted one or more people and, at the same time, not sexually assaulted a particular person. Like I typed above, words matter. I'm also not saying Swetnick is lying about anything and certainly not about being raped by Kavanaugh because she is fairly clearly not accusing Kavanaugh of raping her. Again, not hard to understand. I know you have this aversion to admitting your wrong, but take the loss man and move on.

I think we're going to see something miraculous tomorrow. We're going to see a man, clearly unable to remember anything of note while his employer lied and tortured his way through the middle east, suddenly have his faculties return to him and he will be able to recount everything he did on any given day in 1982.

I think he's getting dropped. Nate Silver did a good analysis:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... -and-soon/

Note, you may see the following headline on 538: "Science Say Toxic Masculinity - More than Alcohol - Leads to Sexual Assault" I read the article twice and all I saw was that there is a pretty clear correlation between alcohol and sexual assault. That being typed, I have imbibed significant amounts of alcohol many times and I've never sexually assaulted anyone. I think, anecdotally, you have to have something wrong with you beyond alcohol to engage in that type of behavior.

Second note, if you are interested in data and politics, you should read 538 with the following caveat - ignore the headline, read the article; I've found, frustratingly, that 538, like most news-type websites, run headlines that are either tenuously related to the article or sometimes antithetical to the article.

[Neoteny]

That would be the smart thing to do, but he's been doubling down pretty hard recently. I don't even know anymore what to think about what could possibly happen.

[Doc_Brown]

Plot twist! Apparently the Senate Judicial Committee has interviewed two men that claim that they (and not Kavanaugh) are the two responsible for the sexual encounter with Dr. Ford:
https://amp.tennessean.com/amp/1439569002

[Neoteny]

Love too admit to attempted raep to own the libs.

But seriously, where's the evidence? Men are biologically programmed to defend in-group members, and will therefore do everything in their power, including confessing assault, to protect one of their own. The literature is very clear on this.

Lock him up.

[mrswdk]

I was train raped in 1983.

[spurgistan]

I also don't think that more women coming forward weakens the allegations against him. That's some weird logic you're using TGD.

I heard Kavanaugh raped Miley Cyrus at a high school party in 1982. More bad news for Kavanaugh.

Wait - you're Miley Cyrus? If you are, then that analogy makes sense, and holy crap guys it's Miley!

[saxitoxin]

Ford's testimony basically fell apart.

• - Asked the location of the assault? "No idea."
  
  - Asked the date of the assault? "Dunno."
  
  - Asked who else was in attendance at the party where the assault happened? She named three people, all of whom then said they were never at the party, and one of whom - a woman, Leland Keyser - said had no idea who Ford was.
  
  - On review of her mental health worker session notes, the only piece of "evidence" that potentially corroborates her story, there are serious gaps ... she claimed to her mental health worker there were four men in the room, a change from her current story that there were two. (Of course, it's a lot riskier to fabricate the names of four people since some of them could potentially have alibis.)

On top of the latest news that two men have come forward to claim responsibility for the shove, this is basically DOA.

All of this, which would have been revealed in the most basic journalistic inquiry, went unreported by the the Amazon Washington Post. The only conclusion is that they are incompetent or they were intentionally peddling #FakeNews to disrupt and undermine confidence in the democratic process. President Trump should send the 101st Airborne to storm 1301 K Street and shut that den of liars down.

[Neoteny]

Jesus Christ.

[DoomYoshi]

Ford's testimony basically fell apart.

• - Asked the location of the assault? "No idea."
  
  - Asked the date of the assault? "Dunno."
  
  - Asked who else was in attendance at the party where the assault happened? She named three people, all of whom then said they were never at the party, and one of whom - a woman, Leland Keyser - said had no idea who Ford was.
  
  - On review of her mental health worker session notes, the only piece of "evidence" that potentially corroborates her story, there are serious gaps ... she claimed to her mental health worker there were four men in the room, a change from her current story that there were two. (Of course, it's a lot riskier to fabricate the names of four people since some of them could potentially have alibis.)

On top of the latest news that two men have come forward to claim responsibility for the shove, this is basically DOA.

All of this, which would have been revealed in the most basic journalistic inquiry, went unreported by the the Amazon Washington Post. The only conclusion is that they are incompetent or they were intentionally peddling #FakeNews to disrupt and undermine confidence in the democratic process. President Trump should send the 101st Airborne to storm 1301 K Street and shut that den of liars down.

No, I still like their crossword.