WWII - Eastern Front-statistic page 1 [Quenched]5000 finish

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:24 pm

Andrew,these is russian map,without english translation. But i will find all russian names in english translation ok.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:26 pm

and theres not all that many votes either...Because people dont care they just want to play a good looking map with sound gameplay. But everytime we near completition a couple of map foundry members throw up trivial objections.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:09 pm

Qwert, you have renamed some city names again. Please correct as it was before, please.

Particularly Ternopil should be Ternopol, Cherkasy should be Cherkassy and Dnipropetrovsk should be Dnepropetrovsk.

Also should be Sarema not Saaremaa; Belostok not Bialystok; Polotsk not Polatsk.

Here is the cross-reference map again:

You definitly right,i will change these names,i loose mine head with these last sugestion and forgot to change these names

neoni · Post by **neoni** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:21 pm

honestly i think this map is perfect and has been for ages, most of the recent changes have been very minor and ultimately pretty irrelevant.

one or two pixels here or there - who cares?

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:33 pm

I like the legend up a bit higher. The reason being I think the hold all stars box is a little close to the map. Moving the legend up fixes it.

gimil · Post by **gimil** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:49 pm

everyone the title really isnt a real issue it looks good either way. its really a matter of chocolate or vanilla? its diffirent for diffirent people. ow how about we talk about more important issues?

wrestler1ump · Post by **wrestler1ump** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:26 pm

How do we make maps on here anyways?

dominationnation · Post by **dominationnation** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:33 pm

wrestler1ump wrote:How do we make maps on here anyways?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1685

wrestler1ump · Post by **wrestler1ump** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:39 pm

Okay I may make a map one of these days.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:47 pm

wrestler1ump wrote:Okay I may make a map one of these days.

i can't wait to see your maps

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:03 am

OMG he is invading the Map foundry. Now we got problems and Qwert's thread could face a serious challenge of being beaten

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:52 am

neoni wrote:honestly i think this map is perfect and has been for ages, most of the recent changes have been very minor and ultimately pretty irrelevant.

one or two pixels here or there - who cares?

me i really dont like to see maps not get completed fully.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:31 am

hulmey wrote:and theres not all that many votes either...Because people dont care they just want to play a good looking map with sound gameplay. But everytime we near completition a couple of map foundry members throw up trivial objections.

I am not trying to keep this map from being done. I have spent around 2 hours of my own time adjusting the map on 2 different occasions to help qwert out. When he refused to reposition the army circles an make them easier to see and fix the jagged borders, I spent over an hour and fixed that. He is now using that map as his small map. If I was trying to kill this map or hold it up, why would I try to help him fix issues.

And why does everything that others suggest to qwert need to be trivial. Just because qwert sees no issue with the map, does not mean there are none.

Here is a list some issues I had with my maps and what I did. Lets see how that compares to how qwert handles a suggestion.
1)8 thoughts-"I don't like the skull in the death territory" / I fixed the skull (5-10 posts)
2)Circus Maximus-"The territory names need to be arranged similar to the old map" / I edited them back to the style of the original map (1-2 posts)
3)Circus Maximus-"The territories need to have pointed ends so the flow of the gameplay direction is seen" / I edited them back to the style of the original map with arrows (1-2 posts)
4)Circus Maximus-"The territory borders at the bottom right of teh map are not to the correct perspective" / I redrew the border line to make them appear more circular at the current perspective. (2-3 posts)
5)8 Thoughts-"The territory borders and impassible borders need to be distinguished differently" / I made several different styles to choose from and a poll was conducted (20-30 posts)
6)KOTM-"The continents should be shaped from the largest having the most sides (red) to the smallest having 1 side (yellow)" / I remade the mountains (10-15 posts)
7)KOTM-"The army circles are not properly lined up" / Adjusted army circles (10-20 posts)
8)Circus Maximus-"The stone looks too gray make it more white" / I made it more white (1-2 posts)
9)KOTM-"The texture of teh territories is not good" / I made several different types and there was a poll (15-25 posts)
10)Circus Maximus-"The crowd needs more color" / I added more color to the crowd and had a vote (10-15 posts)
11)Great Lakes-"Change the state colors" / I changed the state colors (5-10 posts)
12)Great Lakes-"Get rid of the flags in the background/Keep them" / I made two sets and there was a poll (20-40 posts)
13)Great Lakes-"Change the Title and legend to have perspective with the map not just pasted on" / I remade the title and legend to look like it was on the perspective of the map. (5-10 posts)
*All posts are approximate and a guess based off of my memory

If anyone followed one of my maps, they know I do not sit arround and try to justify why I should not change things. Every one of those items listed above has ZERO to do with gameplay. Everyone on of those items above is 100% based on opinion. When some of them were suggested I was very unsure that the result would be good. Sometimes I really liked the suggestion and I kept it. Sometimes there was a poll and that helped decide. The point is....I LISTENED TO THE PEOPLE......MADE THEIR CHANGES......AND MOVED ON IN UNDER 30 pages EACH!!!!!!

hulmey wrote:I know you have made changes in your maps and we saulte you but you surely have not faced the stuff qwert has had to go through in the last 120 pages or so.

You are correct in saying that I have not been faced with now over 130 pages of posts. The list of 13 things above explains why. I listen to the people and make changes. Like the foundry is designed.
If I wanted to turn everyone of those items listed above into a war where I feel I am correct or the suggestion is too stupid to be dealt with, I would only have 1 map as well. The KOTM would still be in the foundry and I would be in the same boat as qwert.

BOTTOM LINE:
1) If you want your map to be a success and go throught the foundry easily and nicely, listen to the posters and make the simple changes to show how you have good relations with everyone.
2) If there is a conflict have a poll. Do not sit back and say a suggestion is bad unless you make visually display both for comparison.
3) If there is a change request and it is really simple. Do it. If everyone likes it then good, a better map. If everoyne does not, then oh well, 5 minutes lost.
4) Just because you don't see the point of a change does not mean it is bad. Just because you lthink your map is done, does not mean that others will. When there are suggestions that you feel are trivial, still make them if they are simple. It shows that you are open to the public and want the map to be the best it can be. We all overlook things. Those trivial suggestions have gone on to help many of the maps look better.

So I say to qwert 1 more time. Yes the legend move up might not make the map look better to you. BUT! Does it make it look worse??? I would say that it does not. So why not spend 15 minutes and fix it? The people who voted Yes to keep it will not care because it does not look any different they say. The people who feel it needs to be done will appreciate it. And overall you will spend 15 minutes to make everyone happy.

If you had taken this approach 100 pages ago, this map might be done. Because most of the stuff in those 100 pages has been trivial things. I don't know how many pages where focus around the color and placement of the army circles/jagged lines. I edited you pic and fixed those in under 2 hours. Imagine what would have happened if you had done that and not made so many people think you were stubborn and lay.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:42 am

hulmey wrote:
and theres not all that many votes either...Because people dont care they just want to play a good looking map with sound gameplay. But everytime we near completition a couple of map foundry members throw up trivial objections.

I dont know why you quoted me and have gone a long marathon showing us how much you listen because i never mentioned you or anybody by name. I never implied anything. I respect you for the maps you have made on CC and your willingness to help others by donating your time and effort.

However, in this particular instance i disagree with you which isnt a crime surely. Qwert has set a poll and it looks like people like the legend just how it is at the moment. I hope you and others respect the descision of the Foundry members, which im sure you will.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:47 am

hulmey wrote:However, in this particular instance i disagree with you which isnt a crime surely. Qwert has set a poll and it looks like people like the legend just how it is at the moment. I hope you and others respect the descision of the Foundry members, which im sure you will.

I was just showing that if qwert had made the change this would be over and everyone would be happy. He does not need to defend everything. Based on things I have had to change to get my maps past Keyogi and Andy, he still has a lot of work.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:12 am

Many people have different tastes and personnel preferences and it most certainly impossible to please them all.

So why should Qwert make changes on the whim of 2 or 3 people. If it were 5,6 or 7 then i would say this latest saga was justified. This poll clearly shows that it was unnecessary waste of time because people like it how it is.

Until the next Saga

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:59 am

Thanks for your help with borders and army circles,these is good help from you.
I also listen the people,but in these stage,when map almost finish,some guys want to fix some trivia and so irelevant things and prolonge these map,if i listen all things what people sugested,and for all things to present 2 or 3 version,then these topic will have not 130 pages,will have 230 pages.

12)Great Lakes-"Get rid of the flags in the background/Keep them" / I made two sets and there was a poll (20-40 posts)

So I say to qwert 1 more time. Yes the legend move up might not make the map look better to you. BUT! Does it make it look worse??? I would say that it does not. So why not spend 15 minutes and fix it? The people who voted Yes to keep it will not care because it does not look any different they say. The people who feel it needs to be done will appreciate it. And overall you will spend 15 minutes to make everyone happy.

I look these two yours talk , and i have 1 question, who you listen,these guys who vote to get rid of flags,or these guys who vote for stay,i belive that you listen these who give much more vote for 1 of these two option.Now you tell me to listen minority because majority dont care for mine map.

Also you in yours map example dont put Title and legend to be parrallel.
So if these 2-3 guys continue to ask from me to move up or down some trivia and irelevan things in map,and no efect in graphic then these will get prolong for very long time.

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:07 am

in fairness widowmakers we may not agree but the poll does support them, but i definately agree with everything you said on principle and i think that is the reason you have created several maps and qwert has not

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:10 am

here latest image with all russian translation to english.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:28 am

boberz
in fairness widowmakers we may not agree but the poll does support them, but i definately agree with everything you said on principle and i think that is the reason you have created several maps and qwert has not

Now these look like insult, that only Widowmaker can create map,and nobody else can not create map.I several times say that widow is great map authors,and i never want to give hem some trivia and stupid sugestion,because i belive that he best know what is god for hes map. When somebody give me support then you want to create picture that these people dont care for mine map, and 3-4 guys care for mine map and i must listen only these 3-4 guys,and if hes give me some trivia and irelevant thing i must obey,because he care for mine map and all others people dont! You are not fair to others people.
Boberz,please dont tell me a principle of how to create map,every yours sugestion is been against majority, even now you can not apply that people vote for these title,and every time you must remind these issue.
So if you want to continue arguing agains me and all these people who think that title standing ok and dont need to change,then ok but please go to flame wars,because i realy dont want to continue with these debate.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:55 am

The poll seems to suggest that you should just leave it where it is. Personally, I don't really care either way as this is even less important than the borders argument. Anyway, since the poll is quite indecisive, i think it should be your decision qwert - I will support whichever you choose

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:28 am

i actually said that this particular debate should be left and that you were right qwert. However i still believe that widowmakers has a better principle of making maps which he has already outlined. I was not trying to offent you just suggest a better outlook on mapmaking.

Incidentaly this is the first time i have been in the minority, and please do not suggest that i considered myself in the majority or continue this debate as it merely proves thjat you do not read my post

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:41 am

qwert wrote:here latest image with all russian translation to english.

Thanks qwert.

On the other note, I agree with the guys that the legend can be moved up a little. Just compare how much free space you have above the legend, but the bottom of the legend is almost touching map outline. Doesn't the WM map version look better to you? It is such a simple issue...

It does not have to be in parallel, but just slightly higher.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:50 am

I'm glad you working on it again.

Good luck and hopefully it will reach soon to Final Forge.

Grtz
MarVal

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:49 pm

AndrewB wrote: On the other note, I agree with the guys that the legend can be moved up a little. Just compare how much free space you have above the legend, but the bottom of the legend is almost touching map outline. Doesn't the WM map version look better to you? It is such a simple issue...

It does not have to be in parallel, but just slightly higher.

Is there any point in wasting that time when the poll suggests otherwise?