Age of Merchants - [Quenched]

[Forza AZ]

I also won't mind to check again, if you need a "neutral" look at it. Just PM me if you want me to check it also again.

[yeti_c]

Feel free - the latest version (except for change from benjikat) is on the uploaded link that DiM has left.

C.

[tr8tr]

Playing it now. Couldn't attack dock-to-dock in many places. Hamstrung my opponent and made it difficult to play. Don't know if this has been addressed already.

[DiM]

yes tr8tr there were many mistakes. fortunately they've been corrected and sent to lack. now we wait for lack to upload it

[tr8tr]

yes tr8tr there were many mistakes. fortunately they've been corrected and sent to lack. now we wait for lack to upload it

thanks!

[fireedud]

This stinks I was about to play it, then I checked and saw the XML mistakes. IT"S NOT FAIR, I WANT TO PLAY IT THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED!

[hwhrhett]

i dont understand this map at all, what is wrong with it, and why cant it be explanitory on the map. how do you transport resources?

[Sparqs]

This post is meaningless, and will accomplish nothing, but I must vent a little.

Like many, I see, I'm in the middle of a game, waiting for an update. It is my turn, and in a little over an hour and a half, I will have the choice of deadbeating* for the 1st time or playing on a very broken map. Sure, so what, lots of games have stalled - some have even finished on the map as-is. Well...

whew. I'm going to stop now because I have a lot to say and this is not the place. Had to let some out, though. I'll be back in 90 minutes, hoping to take my 1st turn.

*I know this is not the accepted meaning of the term "deadbeating" but it will have to do for here and now.

It appears that the Pirate's of the Cove have stolen the rightful XML and are holding it for ransom. I shall hereby refer to this day in CC history as Pirate Thursday.

Again, congrats DiM! I can hardly wait to play this map.

[DiM]

again i'm deeply sorry for all the problems cause by this.
they have all been solved and sent to lack.

hopefully a xml testing crew will be made and problems like this will be avoided.

on my first game on great lakes the bonuses were screwed. instead of 4 i got 2 and another guy had +8 from 2 continents instead of +5. mistakes happen.

but they can be avoided if the xml crew is put together

[Sparqs]

DiM, please know that my venting is certainly not directed at you. It is not really directed at anyone. My target is a process that is broken. Obviously everyone agrees - I don't mean to beat a dead horse here (constructive discussion will occur elsewhere), I just want you to know this is in no way aimed at anyone. I have seen many mistaken files loaded for release, perhaps even from a 1st person perspective...

[edbeard]

Dim I hope you don't take any offense to what I say in this post.

I realize your XML is by far the largest of any map, but there should be no mistakes. I checked my XML 5 times. I'm not saying you didn't check yours 5, 10 or 20 times, but this is your map so the XML is ultimately your responsibility (and partially whoever put it together for you).

We don't need an XML crew. We just need to take this portion of the process more seriously. Probably none or at the most 2 or 3 of us in the foundry checked your XML. I seriously doubt anyone looked at my XML except after the map came out. The foundry process is done in a group, yet this portion of the process is honestly only done by one person on each map. Many of us could have taken some time to check it over, but we did not, so we share some of that blame.

For the most part, we all give each other feedback, so we should take another step and help each other out by proofreading the XML's as well. We just need to look at the problems we had yesterday and as a group (mapmakers, and feedback providers alike) help each other out to prevent this type of event.

[Sparqs]

We don't need an XML crew. We just need to take this portion of the process more seriously.

I disagree profoundly (not with the assertion that the process should be taken seriously).

People will always make mistakes. It is the goal of a release process to catch those mistakes. When mistakes get through, the release process gets revised - if it was a loose process, it gets revamped. This is the hallmark of a functional release process.

I apologize for posting this here as opposed to a thread for this topic, but I have a fundamental disagreement with stated position.

Edit: I am not advocating any particular solution here, crew or otherwise, just that there should be an official process beyond a loose-knit, goodwill attempt to guide cartographers.

[Coleman]

If I had to name one thing I hate most in the entire world it is the need most people seem to have with placing blame for everything. The xml ended up being posted messed up, it's happened before, it will probably happen again, it doesn't matter whose fault it is.

The important thing is now we have the fixed xml, so when lack has time it will be updated, hopefully soon.

[hwhrhett]

If I had to name one thing I hate most in the entire world it is the need most people seem to have with placing blame for everything. The xml ended up being posted messed up, it's happened before, it will probably happen again, it doesn't matter whose fault it is.

The important thing is now we have the fixed xml, so when lack has time it will be updated, hopefully soon.

i think your missing the moral, there is no point in being pissy about what has already happened, but we need to do our damn best to make sure this doesnt happen in the future......

on a different note, i dont have any complaint about the xml or map difficulties, but mostly on the complete lack of my own understanding of this particular map, anyone that would be interested in explaining it to me would be greatly appreciated.

[Forza AZ]

again i'm deeply sorry for all the problems cause by this.
they have all been solved and sent to lack.

hopefully a xml testing crew will be made and problems like this will be avoided.

on my first game on great lakes the bonuses were screwed. instead of 4 i got 2 and another guy had +8 from 2 continents instead of +5. mistakes happen.

but they can be avoided if the xml crew is put together

I volunteer for this testing panel. I check the XML from each map before I take my first turn on a new map anyway, so won't be a problem to check the XML's of new maps before they are uploaded.

[DiM]

Dim I hope you don't take any offense to what I say in this post.

I realize your XML is by far the largest of any map, but there should be no mistakes. I checked my XML 5 times. I'm not saying you didn't check yours 5, 10 or 20 times, but this is your map so the XML is ultimately your responsibility (and partially whoever put it together for you).

We don't need an XML crew. We just need to take this portion of the process more seriously. Probably none or at the most 2 or 3 of us in the foundry checked your XML. I seriously doubt anyone looked at my XML except after the map came out. The foundry process is done in a group, yet this portion of the process is honestly only done by one person on each map. Many of us could have taken some time to check it over, but we did not, so we share some of that blame.

For the most part, we all give each other feedback, so we should take another step and help each other out by proofreading the XML's as well. We just need to look at the problems we had yesterday and as a group (mapmakers, and feedback providers alike) help each other out to prevent this type of event.

yes i totally understand ed. since it is my map i assume the responsibility for this mess. unfortunately i don't really know how xmls work. and belive me for a person that doesn't know a thing it's kinda hard to check a xml properly when in the xml tester i get over 18 thousand warnings all those warnings i understand are ok. because of the complicated bonus system. i managed to get a grip on how connections are made and quickly changed all that needed changing. now the bonuses still puzzle me and i have no idea how they work. on a normal map i get it but here it's just mayhem. pluses and minuses, countries in 10 continents at once, etc.

this is not however an excuse. this should not have happened or at least not to this extent. AoM was by far the map with the most problems at start. wrong connections, people getting minus 20 troops / turn, etc.

believe me i'm probably the most upset person on this site because of this. after i struggled so much to make this map because of the people that refused to accept the concept, i was so happy to see it quenched. now the map had so few fans because of it's complexity i was sure it wasn't going to be a big hit. and when the problems appeared with the xml i just knew the map is doomed. from the small fan base it had prior to quenching i think many won't play it again because of these mistakes.

i watched the maps progress in the first 6 hours after quenching. at some points it had the most games. then mongol empire went into the lead and had something like 10 games in front of AoM. then 20 games, then your map pulled in front. when i stopped watching the map had fallen from 1 to 3 and there was already a big gap while the other 2 maps (australia and benelux) were close behind. now i don't even wanna look. i bet AoM is by far the least played of the 5 maps. and many players will never come back to play it because of these errors.

and on top of this, i the night of the quenching i spent the time to correct as much as i could instead of playing my map. this is not how i imagined it would be. i was sure i'd play a few rts and start a whole bunch of games. now i only have one active game that totally sucks.


PS: and where's lack????????

[fbonsignori]

Hi all.

I'm playing on this map in game 552561 ... I would like attack from Falta to Solia and that was not possible: is that a map error or I'm wrong reading map's rules?

[DiM]

on a different note, i dont have any complaint about the xml or map difficulties, but mostly on the complete lack of my own understanding of this particular map, anyone that would be interested in explaining it to me would be greatly appreciated.

it's actually simple if you look at the instructions:

ports can attack all ports and all docks.
but docks can only attack the docks they are connected to.

how do you get bonuses?

you get +1 for taking a resource pair to a local market.
the resource pairs are presented in the resource pairs boxes. and the local market is the one placed on the same continent as the resource pair. all other markets are considered foreign.

so to transport a resource locally you must own the pair and the market. own those 3 terits and you get the bonus. also you get +1 for having the local factory and the resource pair.

let's say you own the 2 terits of a pair and want to transport them to a foreign market.
conquer the market terit and make sure you own 2 ports one on the market continent and one on the resource pair continent.

the pirate cove gives you +1 for each port you own if you also have the cove.

[DiM]

Hi all.

I'm playing on this map in game 552561 ... I would like attack from Falta to Solia and that was not possible: is that a map error or I'm wrong reading map's rules?

yes it's a map error that has been solved and sent to lackattack. unfortunately lackattack is not online to solve it.

[Forza AZ]

yes it's a map error that has been solved and sent to lackattack. unfortunately lackattack is not online to solve it.

I just checked the XML again (that I downloaded last night 18.08 CET), and found a few mistakes still. Don't know if you changed it already after that, but just in case:

Still found a few mistakes:

2 times the same ports, 2nd Allegre should be Esperanza:

<!-- Section for Top right island to Duna Market -->
<continent>
<name>Wine and Rum to Duna Market</name>
<bonus>2</bonus>
<components>
<component>Duna</component>
<component>Javas</component>
<component>Capo Longo</component>
<component>Puerto Grazio</component>
<component>Puerto Allegre</component>
</components>
</continent>
<continent>
<name>Wine and Rum to Duna Market</name>
<bonus>2</bonus>
<components>
<component>Duna</component>
<component>Javas</component>
<component>Capo Longo</component>
<component>Puerto Grazio</component>
<component>Puerto Allegre</component>
</components>
</continent>

local market (Chino) in stead of Duna:

<!-- Section for Bottom left island to Duna Market -->
<continent>
<name>Coffee and Tobacco to Chino Market</name>
<bonus>2</bonus>
<components>
<component>Chino</component>
<component>Santiago</component>
<component>Fajone</component>
<component>Puerto Ventura</component>
<component>Puerto Allegre</component>
</components>
</continent>
<continent>
<name>Coffee and Tobacco to Chino Market</name>
<bonus>2</bonus>
<components>
<component>Chino</component>
<component>Santiago</component>
<component>Fajone</component>
<component>Puerto Ventura</component>
<component>Puerto Esperanza</component>
</components>
</continent>
<!-- Negative modifiers to ensure only one port combo takes effect.-->
<continent>
<name>Coffee and Tobacco to Chino Market</name>
<bonus>-2</bonus>
<components>
<component>Chino</component>
<component>Santiago</component>
<component>Fajone</component>
<component>Puerto Ventura</component>
<component>Puerto Allegre</component>
<component>Puerto Esperanza</component>
</components>
</continent>

Falta is listed twice as border of Puerto Castillo (don’t think it affects play?):

<country>
<name>Puerto Castillo</name>
<borders>
<border>Vista</border>
<border>Gurias</border>
<border>Falta</border>
<border>Rochas</border>
<border>Santiago</border>
<border>Zio</border>
<border>Val de Juro</border>
<border>Churacas</border>
<border>Pampas</border>
<border>Fort Hope</border>
<border>Falta</border>
<border>Solia</border>
<border>Puerto Allegre</border>
<border>Puerto Esperanza</border>
<border>Puerto Tiago</border>
<border>Puerto Tranquillo</border>
<border>Puerto Modesto</border>
<border>Puerto Antigo</border>
<border>Puerto Grazio</border>
<border>Puerto Rico</border>
<border>Puerto Ventura</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>427</smallx>
<smally>38</smally>
<largex>571</largex>
<largey>43</largey>
</coordinates>
</country>

Santiago a is listed twice as border of Puerto Ventura (don’t think it affects play?):

<country>
<name>Puerto Ventura</name>
<borders>
<border>Santiago</border>
<border>Torales</border>
<border>Stucato</border>
<border>Rochas</border>
<border>Santiago</border>
<border>Zio</border>
<border>Val de Juro</border>
<border>Churacas</border>
<border>Pampas</border>
<border>Fort Hope</border>
<border>Falta</border>
<border>Solia</border>
<border>Puerto Allegre</border>
<border>Puerto Esperanza</border>
<border>Puerto Tiago</border>
<border>Puerto Castillo</border>
<border>Puerto Tranquillo</border>
<border>Puerto Modesto</border>
<border>Puerto Antigo</border>
<border>Puerto Grazio</border>
<border>Puerto Rico</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>105</smallx>
<smally>351</smally>
<largex>141</largex>
<largey>460</largey>
</coordinates>
</country>

Churacas a is listed twice as border of Puerto Rico (don’t think it affects play?):

<country>
<name>Puerto Rico</name>
<borders>
<border>Churacas</border>
<border>Torillos</border>
<border>Rochas</border>
<border>Santiago</border>
<border>Zio</border>
<border>Val de Juro</border>
<border>Churacas</border>
<border>Pampas</border>
<border>Fort Hope</border>
<border>Falta</border>
<border>Solia</border>
<border>Puerto Allegre</border>
<border>Puerto Esperanza</border>
<border>Puerto Tiago</border>
<border>Puerto Castillo</border>
<border>Puerto Tranquillo</border>
<border>Puerto Modesto</border>
<border>Puerto Antigo</border>
<border>Puerto Grazio</border>
<border>Puerto Ventura</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>426</smallx>
<smally>474</smally>
<largex>567</largex>
<largey>624</largey>
</coordinates>
</country>

Ricota is listed as border of Puerto Tranquillo, but it’s not connected on the map:

<country>
<name>Puerto Tranquillo</name>
<borders>
<border>Gringo</border>
<border>Ricota</border>
<border>Rochas</border>
<border>Santiago</border>
<border>Zio</border>
<border>Val de Juro</border>
<border>Churacas</border>
<border>Pampas</border>
<border>Fort Hope</border>
<border>Falta</border>
<border>Solia</border>
<border>Puerto Allegre</border>
<border>Puerto Esperanza</border>
<border>Puerto Tiago</border>
<border>Puerto Castillo</border>
<border>Puerto Modesto</border>
<border>Puerto Antigo</border>
<border>Puerto Grazio</border>
<border>Puerto Rico</border>
<border>Puerto Ventura</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>152</smallx>
<smally>180</smally>
<largex>203</largex>
<largey>232</largey>
</coordinates>
</country>


Solia is listed twice as border of Puerto Modesto (don’t think it affects play?):

<country>
<name>Puerto Modesto</name>
<borders>
<border>Dorata</border>
<border>Solia</border>
<border>Rochas</border>
<border>Santiago</border>
<border>Zio</border>
<border>Val de Juro</border>
<border>Churacas</border>
<border>Pampas</border>
<border>Fort Hope</border>
<border>Falta</border>
<border>Solia</border>
<border>Puerto Allegre</border>
<border>Puerto Esperanza</border>
<border>Puerto Tiago</border>
<border>Puerto Castillo</border>
<border>Puerto Tranquillo</border>
<border>Puerto Antigo</border>
<border>Puerto Grazio</border>
<border>Puerto Rico</border>
<border>Puerto Ventura</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>364</smallx>
<smally>234</smally>
<largex>486</largex>
<largey>311</largey>
</coordinates>
</country>

[yeti_c]

Thanks Forza...

I'll take a look...

C>

PS Did see some of the double mentions of borders - it's superflouous so I left them in for now... to minimalise changes -> thus mistakes...

When it's all fixed I'd planned on taking a line by line look to tidy up. (I believe some of my comments are now out of sync too!)

[DiM]

thanks Forza AZ for pointing them out.

thanks yeti_c for quick responding.

[yeti_c]

Righto - Fixed and sent to DiM and Lack...

C.

PS Note I've not bothered to remove double entries at the moment.

[DiM]

thanks.

but where's lack????

i wonder if it would be possible for another person to have access to the xmls on the site?

let's say andy should have the power to replace xmls if lack is not around.

or every map maker should have the possibility of editing his own xml.

seeing that there have been more than 38 hours since the maps have been uploaded and lack hasn't changed the xmls yet i'm beginning to worry. what if he has a problem and he can't log in for a week? shouldn't there be a back-up plan? or maybe i'm just being paranoid.

for example i have some unexpected and urgent personal problems that force me to leave town in about 4 hours. and i'll be missing for 3 days. these things happen.

[yeti_c]

thanks.

but where's lack????

Dunno - can you upload?

C.