spurgistan wrote:a) the title says "you don't learn". you meant "no entiendo" as "I don't understand"
b) are you saying the laws of habeas corpus (that's the right to a just trial, the most essential liberty our country grants us) are to be disregarded if somebody doesn't have the good luck to born in a country that grants that right? what's the point of coming here, then?
c) really, what's the point of making these posts absolutely NOBODY agrees with? do you live off the hate people send towards you?
d) sorry about feeding the trolls, but... gah.
You misunderstand (refering to B), the problem isn't that the illegal wasn't born in the US, it is that the illegal is not a citizen or permanent resident, so why should they get the same rights as citizens? As for c, I agree with xtra on this one.
Illegal immigrants, if anything, keep jobs inside of America, away from outsourcing. This, in turn, is helping the American economy which you so dearly hold close to your mind. I said this in my other post too, but oh well.
If you weren't born in this country, you'd most likely think otherwise muy_thaiguy. And as for you agreeing with xtra on this, that's why nobody missed you while you were gone. As for the "problem", you are pretty much saying the same thing. If you come to our country legal or not, when you come to trial in our courthouses, you should be treated the same as anyone who has ever been there. By denying anyone the laws of habeas corpus, you are denying it to all. If we preech around the world that our democratic ideals be practiced, why not practice them in our own country?
So there's my question to you guys.
Stop with the racist and ignorant comments, you just make yourselves look unitelligent.
Yes, yes...I know...feeding the trolls.
Last edited by ritz627 on Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ritz627 wrote:I wanted to say this in the other thread but...:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
spurgistan wrote:a) the title says "you don't learn". you meant "no entiendo" as "I don't understand"
b) are you saying the laws of habeas corpus (that's the right to a just trial, the most essential liberty our country grants us) are to be disregarded if somebody doesn't have the good luck to born in a country that grants that right? what's the point of coming here, then?
c) really, what's the point of making these posts absolutely NOBODY agrees with? do you live off the hate people send towards you?
d) sorry about feeding the trolls, but... gah.
You misunderstand (refering to B), the problem isn't that the illegal wasn't born in the US, it is that the illegal is not a citizen or permanent resident, so why should they get the same rights as citizens? As for c, I agree with xtra on this one.
Illegal immigrants, if anything, keep jobs inside of America, away from outsourcing. This, in turn, is helping the American economy which you so dearly hold close to your mind. I said this in my other post too, but oh well.
If you weren't born in this country, you'd most likely think otherwise muy_thaiguy. And as for you agreeing with xtra on this, that's why nobody missed you while you were gone. As for the "problem", you are pretty much saying the same thing. If you come to our country legal or not, when you come to trial in our courthouses, you should be treated the same as anyone who has ever been there. By denying anyone the laws of habeas corpus, you are denying it to all. If we preech around the world that our democratic ideals be practiced, why not practice them in our own country?
So there's my question to you guys.
Stop with the racist and ignorant comments, you just make yourselves look unitelligent.
Yes, yes...I know...feeding the trolls.
I was not being racist or ignorant. I was merely stating something that is quite simple to most people. The illegals are not citezens, if they came here legally and obey the laws, I will not have a problem with them. Also, this is the first time I have actually agreed with xtra on anything. Oh yes, preech is spelled preach.
ritz627 wrote:I wanted to say this in the other thread but...:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
spurgistan wrote:a) the title says "you don't learn". you meant "no entiendo" as "I don't understand"
b) are you saying the laws of habeas corpus (that's the right to a just trial, the most essential liberty our country grants us) are to be disregarded if somebody doesn't have the good luck to born in a country that grants that right? what's the point of coming here, then?
c) really, what's the point of making these posts absolutely NOBODY agrees with? do you live off the hate people send towards you?
d) sorry about feeding the trolls, but... gah.
You misunderstand (refering to B), the problem isn't that the illegal wasn't born in the US, it is that the illegal is not a citizen or permanent resident, so why should they get the same rights as citizens? As for c, I agree with xtra on this one.
Illegal immigrants, if anything, keep jobs inside of America, away from outsourcing. This, in turn, is helping the American economy which you so dearly hold close to your mind. I said this in my other post too, but oh well.
If you weren't born in this country, you'd most likely think otherwise muy_thaiguy. And as for you agreeing with xtra on this, that's why nobody missed you while you were gone. As for the "problem", you are pretty much saying the same thing. If you come to our country legal or not, when you come to trial in our courthouses, you should be treated the same as anyone who has ever been there. By denying anyone the laws of habeas corpus, you are denying it to all. If we preech around the world that our democratic ideals be practiced, why not practice them in our own country?
So there's my question to you guys.
Stop with the racist and ignorant comments, you just make yourselves look unitelligent.
Yes, yes...I know...feeding the trolls.
I was not being racist or ignorant. I was merely stating something that is quite simple to most people. The illegals are not citezens, if they came here legally and obey the laws, I will not have a problem with them. Also, this is the first time I have actually agreed with xtra on anything. Oh yes, preech is spelled preach.
Excuse me...hit the wrong key, and if you really want to get into this, citezens is spelt citizens. "E" and "A" are at least close together on the key board, but "E" and "I"? Thats a stretch.
And I have said before. Most illegal immigrants try to enter the country first as legal immigrants, but are put on a waiting list and will die before thier name comes up on the aforesaid waiting list. These are people with very poor living conditions, America is a place for them where they can actually have a chance at living a quality life, and some may die otherwise. How can you stand there and just turn them down just because of a few papers? And you still didn't answer my first question.
muy_thaiguy wrote: Also, this is the first time I have actually agreed with xtra on anything.
Seeing that all xtra talks about is illegal immigrants, this can't be the first time you agree with him.
ritz627 wrote:Ugh, if this needs to be moved to funny farm, then do so. But I just know I'm not going to find xtra in any place holding any sort of intelligence.
xtra has been forum banned for a bit i believe, sweet! also ritz has sound reasoning when it comes to jobs kept within the USA, the ''illegals'' do alot of work that the legals consider under them and for cheap wages as well, this layer of base working in the economy is basically what keeps all prices low and will in the long run help keep jobs within america, the situation is the same across the whole world in developed countries.
Lets put this in perspective shall we? Illegal immagrants are here illegally. Don't give me "but they're poor wanting a better life" crap. If a street bum broke into your house looking for "a better place to sleep" I think you might have a problem with it. We have LAWS, respect them, or don't come here. I can't figure out why this is even an issue. They don't belong here and need to leave....period.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
Luke 10: 29 - 37
He asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
What do you think Jay?
AAFitz wrote:There will always be cheaters, abusive players, terrible players, and worse. But we have every right to crush them.
MeDeFe wrote:This is a forum on the internet, what do you expect?
Heads up, really long post.
I received this recently:
If you think this can't happen...you are probably too naive to understand what's going on in your life anyway...
The Case To Destroy America: For those of you on the "conservative" side of the fence, read this and learn to understand your feelings better. For those of you not on the conservative side of the fence, please read and learn a different viewpoint.
Wherever you stand, please take the time to read this; it ought to scare the pants off you!
We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.
Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'" "Here is how they do it," Lamm said:
"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans. Spain has Basques." Lamm went on:
"Second, to destroy America , "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds". "Third, We could make the United States a 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: " The apparent success of our own multi ethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together." Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities." "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school." "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population." "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common Language and literature; and they worshiped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" --From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Yugoslavia." "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' of the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."
In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said:
"Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book "Mexifornia." His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."
There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."
Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world." -Kaiser Wilhelm II
ok you fools, guess what, the immagrents that come here take jobs we do not want. However the problem is what happens if they seek to destroy us and get in? thats why all illeagal grants got to go.
Former AP clan member
Former freedom fighter
Now a communist
Bigfalcon65 wrote:ok you fools, guess what, the immagrents that come here take jobs we do not want. However the problem is what happens if they seek to destroy us and gethine? thats why all illeagal grants got to go.
why do they want to destroy me?
i'm not even american.
ritz627 wrote:I wanted to say this in the other thread but...:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
spurgistan wrote:a) the title says "you don't learn". you meant "no entiendo" as "I don't understand"
b) are you saying the laws of habeas corpus (that's the right to a just trial, the most essential liberty our country grants us) are to be disregarded if somebody doesn't have the good luck to born in a country that grants that right? what's the point of coming here, then?
c) really, what's the point of making these posts absolutely NOBODY agrees with? do you live off the hate people send towards you?
d) sorry about feeding the trolls, but... gah.
You misunderstand (refering to B), the problem isn't that the illegal wasn't born in the US, it is that the illegal is not a citizen or permanent resident, so why should they get the same rights as citizens? As for c, I agree with xtra on this one.
Illegal immigrants, if anything, keep jobs inside of America, away from outsourcing. This, in turn, is helping the American economy which you so dearly hold close to your mind. I said this in my other post too, but oh well.
If you weren't born in this country, you'd most likely think otherwise muy_thaiguy. And as for you agreeing with xtra on this, that's why nobody missed you while you were gone. As for the "problem", you are pretty much saying the same thing. If you come to our country legal or not, when you come to trial in our courthouses, you should be treated the same as anyone who has ever been there. By denying anyone the laws of habeas corpus, you are denying it to all. If we preech around the world that our democratic ideals be practiced, why not practice them in our own country?
So there's my question to you guys.
Stop with the racist and ignorant comments, you just make yourselves look unitelligent.
Yes, yes...I know...feeding the trolls.
I was not being racist or ignorant. I was merely stating something that is quite simple to most people. The illegals are not citezens, if they came here legally and obey the laws, I will not have a problem with them. Also, this is the first time I have actually agreed with xtra on anything. Oh yes, preech is spelled preach.
Excuse me...hit the wrong key, and if you really want to get into this, citezens is spelt citizens. "E" and "A" are at least close together on the key board, but "E" and "I"? Thats a stretch.
And I have said before. Most illegal immigrants try to enter the country first as legal immigrants, but are put on a waiting list and will die before thier name comes up on the aforesaid waiting list. These are people with very poor living conditions, America is a place for them where they can actually have a chance at living a quality life, and some may die otherwise. How can you stand there and just turn them down just because of a few papers? And you still didn't answer my first question.
muy_thaiguy wrote: Also, this is the first time I have actually agreed with xtra on anything.
Seeing that all xtra talks about is illegal immigrants, this can't be the first time you agree with him.
Considering this was his first post that I have seen on this subject, yes, it is the first I have actually agreed with him on this. As for all of the jobs that citizens supposedly won't do and that only illegals will do, that is a bunch of bull. They may do some dirty jobs, but no where near all of them. jay, I couldn't agree more with you on this subject, truth be told.
spurgistan wrote:Just for the record, snopes says what IZ Man says actually happened, so it's real. Sorry Iz, always have to check with these chain e-mails. Be back to say more when the chance arises.
Sorry spurgistan, I don't quite understand what you mean by snopes.
I did do some research on the subject and found the conference & the speech by fmr Gov. Lamm to be true.
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world." -Kaiser Wilhelm II
spurgistan wrote:Just for the record, snopes says what IZ Man says actually happened, so it's real. Sorry Iz, always have to check with these chain e-mails. Be back to say more when the chance arises.
Sorry spurgistan, I don't quite understand what you mean by snopes.
I did do some research on the subject and found the conference & the speech by fmr Gov. Lamm to be true.
snopes is an urban legends site, determining fact from fiction on various things you hear.
reverend_kyle wrote:you know who really should have cracked down on illegal immigrants? The native americans....just saying.
If only they fought just a bit harder; but alas, they did not....
reverend_kyle wrote:Modern day hispanics descend from native americans so technically, they are more legal than us.
Really? Is that why they speak Spanish?
Or maybe it was the Spanish Conquistadors?
No, it couldn't have been them........they were really nice people......
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world." -Kaiser Wilhelm II
spurgistan wrote:Just for the record, snopes says what IZ Man says actually happened, so it's real. Sorry Iz, always have to check with these chain e-mails. Be back to say more when the chance arises.
Sorry spurgistan, I don't quite understand what you mean by snopes.
I did do some research on the subject and found the conference & the speech by fmr Gov. Lamm to be true.
snopes is an urban legends site, determining fact from fiction on various things you hear.
Ah, ok.
I'll have to check it out.
Is there a snopes for snopes?
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world." -Kaiser Wilhelm II
Bigfalcon65 wrote:ok you fools, guess what, the immagrents that come here take jobs we do not want. However the problem is what happens if they seek to destroy us and gethine? thats why all illeagal grants got to go.
why do they want to destroy me? i'm not even american.
why are you in this topic?
Former AP clan member
Former freedom fighter
Now a communist
Bigfalcon65 wrote:ok you fools, guess what, the immagrents that come here take jobs we do not want. However the problem is what happens if they seek to destroy us and gethine? thats why all illeagal grants got to go.
why do they want to destroy me? i'm not even american.
Bigfalcon65 wrote:ok you fools, guess what, the immagrents that come here take jobs we do not want. However the problem is what happens if they seek to destroy us and gethine? thats why all illeagal grants got to go.
why do they want to destroy me? i'm not even american.
why are you in this topic?
took a wrong turn.
ahh i see
Former AP clan member
Former freedom fighter
Now a communist
spurgistan wrote:Just for the record, snopes says what IZ Man says actually happened, so it's real. Sorry Iz, always have to check with these chain e-mails. Be back to say more when the chance arises.
Sorry spurgistan, I don't quite understand what you mean by snopes.
I did do some research on the subject and found the conference & the speech by fmr Gov. Lamm to be true.
snopes is an urban legends site, determining fact from fiction on various things you hear.
Ah, ok. I'll have to check it out. Is there a snopes for snopes?
Nope, Snopes are overseers of all things internet. Luckily, they use their powers for good, not evil.
Anyways, Meztizos (or Latinos who have significant Indian heritage, which is to say most of them) speak Spanish for the same reason that Navajo, black Americans and Filipinos (for example) speak English, which is that their cruel colonialist overlords (us!) forced it on them. The fact that the Spanish are generally a bit meaner to their colonies than the Brits and Americans (not as far removed as it should be) doesn't mean we were above forcing our language on them. This is why Latin Americans of Indian descent speak Spanish. This is rather unrelated to illegal immigration.
muy_thaiguy wrote:As for all of the jobs that citizens supposedly won't do and that only illegals will do, that is a bunch of bull. They may do some dirty jobs, but no where near all of them. jay, I couldn't agree more with you on this subject, truth be told.
You're right, those jobs are all getting outsourced, my mistake. They don't do nearly all of them, this is because they are a minority, and couldn't possibly do all of the lower minimum wage and below minimum wage jobs, which make up the majority of jobs in America. The fact is, that these people are keeping a fair amount of jobs here in America, and helping the American economy in that way. Also again, its true that most illegal immigrants enter try to enter first as legal one's, but are put on a list and would die before they are able legally immigrate here. Just a question, how many of the live's of the people here have actually been negatively impacted by illlegal immigrants? Along with my other question from before that carries back to the other thread: American preaches its democratic ideals across the world, why don't they practice such a policy here in America? Sayings such as "All men are created equal", have been changed to "All men are created equal, but only if they are a citizen of the United States". With an immigrant policy like this, this is the kind of message we are sending to the rest of the world.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-"
- Last words of Gen. John Sedgwick
illegals do pay taxes... even if they don't file with the government (but come on, do all legal residents fill out income taxes absolutely truthfully?!) they've been estimated at paying something like 5 billion dollars into our social security system via payroll tax without getting a cent back, as they cannot qualify for social security benefits.
