Soaps Role Madness! Town Wins!

[pmchugh]

I feel like charle is just town. Seems freer than our last game, joking around and the like. Feels different.

Raigan vote for me seemed legit townie trying to do something.

Instantly suspicious of strike for no particular reason.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Fusi replacing King

[kongming3]

Just caught up on all the posts and figuring out how I should be playing this. I did in fact appreciate the joke charles so I shan't fuss about the vote against me.

[kongming3]

Also I'm not sure that I can contribute much that's helpful at this stage, but I'll keep a close eye on things and be around for sure.

[fusibaseball]

VOTE PMC

[Loose Canon]

I reckon if a townie does not have a powerful role such as cop and not a weak vanilla role either but a role which can do something but not much, then it could be that a day1 claim of that role could be of benefit to town.

eg if I had the day 1 my vote doesn't count, day 2 vote counts double, day 3 vote doesn't count etc, role again, then again I would let that be known.

My thinking is;

Just don't think a mafia would go with a fake claim day1.
Therefore it would identify 1 player as town straight up, and therefore mafia at some point have to go for the player without a powerful role.

Up for discussion and I'm putting it out there because another townie might have such a role and might agree with me....?

[Votanic]

I reckon if a townie does not have a powerful role such as cop and not a weak vanilla role either but a role which can do something but not much, then it could be that a day1 claim of that role could be of benefit to town.

eg if I had the day 1 my vote doesn't count, day 2 vote counts double, day 3 vote doesn't count etc, role again, then again I would let that be known.

My thinking is;

Just don't think a mafia would go with a fake claim day1.
Therefore it would identify 1 player as town straight up, and therefore mafia at some point have to go for the player without a powerful role.

Up for discussion and I'm putting it out there because another townie might have such a role and might agree with me....?

What the...?
I'll assume for a moment you are asking this as town... If so, please realize, there is no real benefit to this, LC.
...and my saying this doesn't just sound 'towny'. It is towny.

Anyone and everyone, scum included, can just give a fake, quasi-vanilla role (or really f*ck with everybody and just say 'vanilla' anyway).
This is the smartest thing to do if this tiresome madness gets forced down our throats...again.

However only dumb townies will actually give out real information about themselves at this point. Don't do it.
BTW, Role Madness doesn't automatically assume that Scum has any (extra) PRs.
Basic Mafia school of thought treats the normal scum abilities of team awareness and night kills as plenty of PR already.
However, the last two game mods thought it was clever and fun to give Scum extra PRs, so DDS might do that too. I don't know...

Town, instead of hoping to win the game by carelessly giving away info (or bullying others into declaring...).
Try to win by wisely using your comments, questions, votes and PRs... and remember your greatest PR will always be your own abilities of perception and deduction.

One other point: Yes, sometimes 'joke' votes are just meant as 'jokes' (except when they're not...) but since 'joke' votes are never actully funny jokes (unoriginal, played-out) let's all try to not waste each other's time by posting them. I'm not trying to be a kill-joy about jokes and humor, I'm just saying if you want to be a comedian, select original material with some degree of wit.

[Ragian]

What's with the vote, fusi?

@Charle, I'm stealing those magical jokes for my students. They'll hate me

[pmchugh]

I reckon if a townie does not have a powerful role such as cop and not a weak vanilla role either but a role which can do something but not much, then it could be that a day1 claim of that role could be of benefit to town.

eg if I had the day 1 my vote doesn't count, day 2 vote counts double, day 3 vote doesn't count etc, role again, then again I would let that be known.

My thinking is;

Just don't think a mafia would go with a fake claim day1.
Therefore it would identify 1 player as town straight up, and therefore mafia at some point have to go for the player without a powerful role.

Up for discussion and I'm putting it out there because another townie might have such a role and might agree with me....?

What the...?
I'll assume for a moment you are asking this as town... If so, please realize, there is no real benefit to this, LC.
...and my saying this doesn't just sound 'towny'. It is towny.

Anyone and everyone, scum included, can just give a fake, quasi-vanilla role (or really f*ck with everybody and just say 'vanilla' anyway).
This is the smartest thing to do if this tiresome madness gets forced down our throats...again.

However only dumb townies will actually give out real information about themselves at this point. Don't do it.
BTW, Role Madness doesn't automatically assume that Scum has any (extra) PRs.
Basic Mafia school of thought treats the normal scum abilities of team awareness and night kills as plenty of PR already.
However, the last two game mods thought it was clever and fun to give Scum extra PRs, so DDS might do that too. I don't know...

Town, instead of hoping to win the game by carelessly giving away info (or bullying others into declaring...).
Try to win by wisely using your comments, questions, votes and PRs... and remember your greatest PR will always be your own abilities of perception and deduction.

One other point: Yes, sometimes 'joke' votes are just meant as 'jokes' (except when they're not...) but since 'joke' votes are never actully funny jokes (unoriginal, played-out) let's all try to not waste each other's time by posting them. I'm not trying to be a kill-joy about jokes and humor, I'm just saying if you want to be a comedian, select original material with some degree of wit.

Some of this I totally agree with, and others I vehemently disagree with. Like, people on this site need to use their brains, not their PRs to work out who is town and who is scum. Every single player should post every single day a breakdown of who they think is most likely town and who is most likely scum, and who they aren't sure about. Even of you confidence in that list is low, if you don't start day 1, you never will until its too late.

The part I disagree with is joke votes, they do more good than harm on day 1 imo. I even just enjoy reading a joke vote from dead scum to see who they put it on. Joke votes do no harm on day 1. Like, give me two players, one who posts literally nothing and one who makes a bunch of random joke posts and nonsense, and random votes and I will take the latter all day long.

[swang918]

Re vot, eh Ive actually had the same thought as loose before. That in a role heavy game it might make sense to do like a mass claim early. Loose suggested it in the tick i think, got some heat there for it but I was scum in that game and I was kind of afraid of it. Forces scum to pick a fake claim early and if you get lucky then a scum fake claims a role that a town already has. Of course you have to weight this against exposing the cop early but the idea is that with many power roles, you make up for that

[pmchugh]

Re vot, eh Ive actually had the same thought as loose before. That in a role heavy game it might make sense to do like a mass claim early. Loose suggested it in the tick i think, got some heat there for it but I was scum in that game and I was kind of afraid of it. Forces scum to pick a fake claim early and if you get lucky then a scum fake claims a role that a town already has. Of course you have to weight this against exposing the cop early but the idea is that with many power roles, you make up for that

I agree that as mafia it's super annoying to face mass claims, but honestly it's not really playing the game to me. Some rule sets even ban it, or have anti claim mechanisms, like giving extra kill if you can guess the role. I am more interested in seeing town progress in this game from last one, and try to figure it out from the posts, even if it is debatably better to use more claims early.

[Votanic]

First of all, every town player needs to realize that a fellow townie lying about his PR is not a scum tell or a betrayal (True Lies, people).
You can all see that, right?

In most games, vanilla is a great false claim, when necessary, ...though not having to claim at all is better.

With Role Madness, false claims both easier and harder.
Easier because all sorts of odd possibilities become more credible.
But also harder because you have to find a fake PR that is hard to disprove.
Yes, declaring such a stealth role might cast suspicion... but since a player could actually have that role it is not that strong of a scum tell either.

And yes indeed, this does apply to scum as well as town, trusting what claimsin this game is not the road to victory.
That is why multiple independent lines of evidence are golden.
Of course, we saw in the last game, how usually independent evidence from a tracker and cop could both be manipulated by a busdriving scum.
...and that is why, tbh, giving additional PR to scum is already half way to bastard modding.

And again with the hierarchy of information:
Acting of true evidence is better than random is better than tunneling on false evidence.

And to be clear: I am not advocating for a barrage of false claims, I am advocating for not forcing players to claim, as if that will automatically prove innocence.
...and even if it does 'prove' innocence, at what cost? A valuable PR for town possibly ruined and/or the holder of that PR the most likely target for a night-kill...

As for early 'randomish' votes, be they 'joke' or not, how about everybody post their reason right next to the vote. if it's a joke vote, it will be for something silly, like a revenge vote for a loss in a previous game, or whatever... and if it really is based on early suspicionsm others will know to give it more credence.
Don't worry about giving the joke away, because 'joke' votes aren't that funny anyway...in fact a 'funny' reason give next to the vote migh actually salvage the humor.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I have been really busy lately so will read all but I guess its mostly nonsesense first day.

I just will say for now, some of you coud use some hats

[Charle]

VOTE PMC

LOL!!! You really want that band wagon fusi!!!

Welcome, and tanks for filling in!!

[Charle]

Meant "thanks" LOL

[DirtyDishSoap]

Edit - Made a goofy error over here when going through the list. Sorry for anyone backtracking.

[Charle]

Just caught up on all the posts and figuring out how I should be playing this. I did in fact appreciate the joke charles so I shan't fuss about the vote against me.

Glad you made it. I am also fairly new but you can really look at PMC's posts and learn from that. He is a brilliant player.

Unvote

FP By DDS

[Charle]

Ok, one more banana joke and then I will move on (I was wondering whether I should post this one but here is goes anyway).

The teacher in Sex Education Class was using a banana to demonstrate how to put on a condom.

It was quite disturbing to see an adult male putting a banana peel over his dick!

[Charle]

Re vot, eh Ive actually had the same thought as loose before. That in a role heavy game it might make sense to do like a mass claim early. Loose suggested it in the tick i think, got some heat there for it but I was scum in that game and I was kind of afraid of it. Forces scum to pick a fake claim early and if you get lucky then a scum fake claims a role that a town already has. Of course you have to weight this against exposing the cop early but the idea is that with many power roles, you make up for that

I think a mass claim just makes it easier for scum. They can easily work out who is bluffing and who not, and it makes their decision who to kill much easier. They know exactly who are town (except for third party). For town it is more difficult to find the fake claims.

[Loose Canon]

Just to be clear I'm not arguing for a mass claim D1 I'm arguing for 1 town player with what they feel is a weak but not vanilla power to claim.
And until there is other evidence out there D1 I will continue to argue for iit because I currently believe it would be good for town.
And also I think debating is good for town.

[Extreme Ways]

Kong, you only wanted to know who your fellow partners are and then left? We need to get this in some kind of direction. I guess, first day is just fooling around until we have N1 results.

Vote Kong

So by the way, can circumcisions be carried out at any age, or is there a cutoff date?

I was surprised everybody else was still fluffposting and ignored this thh

Sad that he has withdrawn it was a great discussion point. Probably dropped it

Also not convinced by PMC needing to emphasise his towniness

Eh. I agree with PMC that if anything it indicates more that he is not mafia than anything as mafia would know their scummates. I think you could say if he later turns up mafia that Vot and PMC (and I guess myself) are more likely to be his scummates but for now, I am leaning against the statement meaning anything scummy.

I think he's town but was interested in who would be pushing for it and who was trying to ignore it.

I think scum would ignore it because you dont want somebody to be basically confirmed before the game starts.
Town would want to highlight that this is much more likely to come from town (occam's razor if im not mistaken)

[Extreme Ways]

oh I missed page 2.

brb then

[pmchugh]

Charle flattery now losing his towniness!

Votanic seems the same as last game but its early days and he is smart enough to do that.

LC idea probably comes from town trying to be creative rather than scum pretending to be town pretending to be creative.

I think arguing us most productive when it's about whether a player is scum sounding or two sounding. Its very easy as mafia to debate flavour or lynch strategy or anything other than accusing others/defending themselves.

I am going to commit to give impressions as often as I can this game.

[Extreme Ways]

Not obvious kong is town Charle. I played the wolves don't know who the other wolves are till N1 line in millars hollow remember.

Like this to me reads like sowing doubt rather than aiming to provide extra info.

I reckon if a townie does not have a powerful role such as cop and not a weak vanilla role either but a role which can do something but not much, then it could be that a day1 claim of that role could be of benefit to town.

eg if I had the day 1 my vote doesn't count, day 2 vote counts double, day 3 vote doesn't count etc, role again, then again I would let that be known.

My thinking is;

Just don't think a mafia would go with a fake claim day1.
Therefore it would identify 1 player as town straight up, and therefore mafia at some point have to go for the player without a powerful role.

Up for discussion and I'm putting it out there because another townie might have such a role and might agree with me....?

It limits the pool of townies that may have strong roles.

Re vot, eh Ive actually had the same thought as loose before. That in a role heavy game it might make sense to do like a mass claim early. Loose suggested it in the tick i think, got some heat there for it but I was scum in that game and I was kind of afraid of it. Forces scum to pick a fake claim early and if you get lucky then a scum fake claims a role that a town already has. Of course you have to weight this against exposing the cop early but the idea is that with many power roles, you make up for that

I agree that as mafia it's super annoying to face mass claims, but honestly it's not really playing the game to me. Some rule sets even ban it, or have anti claim mechanisms, like giving extra kill if you can guess the role. I am more interested in seeing town progress in this game from last one, and try to figure it out from the posts, even if it is debatably better to use more claims early.

I wouldnt be surprised if scum has a roleblocker or strongman (kills through protection)

[strike wolf]

Mass claims day 1 are generally a bad idea. There are times when it works but a good mod will generally give mafia at least one solid fake claim and mafia often will have at least one role that can be town (roleblocker, busdriver, watcher, etc) which would allow mafia to truthfully claim their role and actions while still acting as scum. It would then be on town to determine if they used their actions logically and to the benefit of town and if not, whether they're mafia or just bad town.

Strong roles should under sell their importance until it is time to fully claim but also keep in mind that laying low and hoping to avoid attention all together is sometimes a beacon for the mafia to decide that you have something to hide. For example, if I was to claim that I was just a Bodyguard and then act more passively than usual then mafia might pick out that I have something to hide.

I'm also generally against weaker roles exposing themselves as it does give mafia a shorter list for who has stronger roles. Keep in mind that mafia is already acting on more information than we are. There's likely 3 mafia in a game this size and that means they have 2 fewer people to determine who is a certain power role vs any town who isn't that power role.

I would say an exception would be that Paranoid Gun Owners (which imo are honestly kind of bastard roles already outside of wacky anything goes mafia games where anyone who visits them for their action gets killed) where it is generally in towns best interest to know who they are since it's more likely that town will stumble onto them then mafia. Even then you could argue that its against the spirit of the game for a PGO to nerf their impact like that.

In short, Mass claims and partial claims day 1 are usually not a great idea.

D1 is basically a testing the waters day. We're not going to have much information yet based on behavior and we have no information yet based on actions. Cases spring up based on getting people to talk and starting artificial band wagons which give us more information on how to proceed on future days when we will have more action information to base those bandwagon.

Right now, I don't really have much of a read on anyone. Loose pulled a similar "maybe we should have x players claim" argument in The Tick mafia for what that is worth. Fusi putting a third vote on PMC without explanation does rub me a bit the wrong way but is most easily explained as a kind of left over frustration from the last mafia game where PMC and Charle won as mafia despite Fusi correctly pointing them out as the scum. Vot is being generally helpful and while that can be a mafia tactic to give general helpful information and avoiding too much direct action, his frustration towards Kong at the beginning feels genuine. So Vot is probably the closest I have to a true town read at the moment.

As far as Vot taking shots at my modding in the previous game, I'll just note that a. Mafia in non-vanilla games on this site do tend to have power roles and that does not qualify as halfway bastard modding and b. Town had their share of power roles in that game and they had enough information that even with the busdriver and Roleblocker shenanigans, they could have and honestly probably should have sussed out PMC as scum. After that it would have been an uphill battle for Charle to avoid being the follow up lynch.