EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[Loose Canon]

I don't get and don't really like what seems like running the clock down lack of action.
Any thoughts anyone?

[Votanic]

I don't get and don't really like what seems like running the clock down lack of action.
Any thoughts anyone?

I think some (all?) players are feeling disaffected and apathetic, at least the townie ones.
They need to have a sense that they are empowered and that their actions and efforts will have a meaningful effect on the game.
IDEA! What if we built a giant wooden horse, filled it up with a mighty arsenal of waay sweeet Town PRs and then somehow tricked EW into rolling the horse into the game thread? (Totally original idea that I just thought up all bymyself.)

[Votanic]

Wake Up Town.
Swang, LC and Max are all voting for me.... so unless something changes I am going to be lynched...
Look, I know this game is as exciting as cold oatmeal, but even if you only want to expend minimal effort, at least consider taking the vote off me because I am town, and I think tha should be fairly obvious to any Town players who have been paying attention.

I'm going to bold parts of the next paragraph because you are going to want to read it again (if you're really playing) when I end up dead and show as Town, either by this lame Lynch or by a Night Kill.

Swang, LC and Max are all voting for me and I suspect that at least one of them (perhaps two) are Scum, the other(s) are just gullible Town fools who let themselves get loaded onto the wrong Bandwagon I also think Ragian hasplayed Spuer-scummy as well. Don't count on Town's miniscule PRs to save you, I've said that too you several times already. Instead use your brains and read with comprehension.

I'm going ot try to start a much better bandwagon. Hopefully you will look at the facts and join with me.
Unvote, Vote Swang (a very likely Scum PR).

[Votanic]

This doesn't have much to do directly with the s game's actual gameplay but it is in response to criticism I recived from strike in this game.

It's not untrue that I don't exactly take kindly to your constant and often unwarranted attacks on mods. It's a task that takes a lot of commitment without which these games aren't possible and I feel that deserves respect, not constant side swipes and barbs.

A Short Essay on Mafia Modding, both Good and Bad by St. Votanic
It takes experience to play Mafia well and this goes for both in-game players and mods (who are, in truth, just another kind of player). Therefore, just as we don't expect an in-game player to know everything and play perfectly, neither shuld we expect or assume that the game mod is incontestable expert at game design, mechanics, sportsmanship, balance, flavor, etc., even if it the managerial role in charge of game operations.

strike credits mods with showing effort and commitment to the game ( largely true) but ignores that this as much (if not more) true of the in-game players, who must read as much as the mods and write and reply significantly more. The player's time and efforts should also be respected. We shouldn't ecpect players to remain silently unhappy with mods who don't understand (or don't care) about game balance and who also sabotag with curveball 'bastard' tactics. Now I know 'bastard-modding' can be applied to a whole range of different qyuestionably bad mod plays, some being little more than oversights or minor transgressions, but frankly, the worst bastard-modding can even be described by a less kind word, cheating.
And if you are a mod that wants to argue it's not even possible for a mod to cheat, then you are exactly the type of over-entitled mod that needs to read this.

I'm not going to mention any specific mod mis-steps by name here, but I am going to list three things to always remember (and which have too frequently been forgotten).

1.Do not secretly reshuffle or re-set the game dynamics after the game has begun. Do not undo the efforts and successes that a player or team has accomplished because you think it will make a more interesting story or any other reason. Mafia is a competitive team game, it may have flavour, but it is not primarily about either role-playing or storytime.

2.After many years and many thousands of games, the basics of game balance in Mafia has already largely been figured out. Therefore rein in any creative modding ideas that tip the balance away from already established means. Don't romanticize mountainous/no-PR games as being more pure, and seriously rethink any game design that gives scum more additional PR power than Town. knowing oyur teammates and getting to kill one of the other theam each night is already a huge amount of power for scum.
Yes, I recognize that some third party roles are unavoidably long shots to win aone... however,in many of those cases, such third parties can be considered to technically win with either town or scum, depending on the role.

3. Flavor is where mod creativity can really shine, even if it is just frosting on the cake. The best flavour can be complex (but not confusing) with elements that blend seamlessly and naturally with the game mechanics. Actually, I found the The Thing game to be a particularly elegant adaptation of it's source material (don't get a swelled head about that, DDS) but most other games with a lot of PR actions, intriguing game conditions and an atmospheric or suspenseful setting are also using flavor in fun and effective ways.
Mafia games are long hauls, do what you can to make them fun and entertaining.

Okay that's enough lecturing for now... Again, I only borught it up in the middle of a game because 1) It had already become an issue, and 2) This way it might actually get read by more players. In any case, I will likely cut-and-paste again somewhere else in the future.

[Ragian]

I am slightly town reading Charle for mentioning that pmc has this move where he votes a fellow scum early on D1 and apparently did that in the forest game. That's not something I would have caught or knew myself and is interesting to know, and there's no reason to share that now if charle is scum.

however this doesn't mean I'm scum reading pmc. Still just neutral on pmc, just noticing that it is townish for Charle to share this intel.

I mean, I have several times across this game and the previous game mentioned how I am reading charle based off of his play from when we were scum mates, so it's unsurprising he is responding by trying to do the same, regardless of whether he is scum or town.

I must say, I don't really have a play style yet, at this stage I am just posting what I honestly see here and try to analyse it the best I can with what we have.

I still think we are going to find something between Swang, PMC and Ragian and all mostly because of the end play of Day 1. I feel that Swang was protected by swinging the vote, and we should go and look who did it and why. PMC was "happy" to lynch both Swang and DDS, so why change the wagon if there already exist one. Ragian's full on campaign was obvious to get the lynch away from Swang and then there is Swang, the one they protected so much.

I might go around in circles, but I really could not see any answers for the above and if that is a certain play style, well then I guess this is my play style

And now you're just ignoring me. Could you explain yourself? I had a couple of posts directed specifically to you.

LOL Rag, I am not ignoring you, just that it is not so important when you jumped on the wagon or started it, or whatever. Sorry, I made a mistake on when you started to vote DDS, you pointed it out and so be it. The scum part came thereafter when you wanted to swing the vote away from Swang to DDS. When you joined is irrelevant at this stage.

But we can leave it for now, it is just the way I see it, others seems not to agree and I respect their points of view as well. So I will see how this day turns out before I cast my vote.

It's all good that you think that we can just leave it now, but what I don't like about it is that you paint a certain picture of me that is untrue, and if I don't correct that and make you correct it, the narrative about me becomes all votanesque.

@Vot, Also, for the hell of it, why should we believe that you are town? Explain how your posts ring more town than anyone else's. Especially when more people are voting you with whom you've played before.

[Ragian]

Also, I vote for votanic as the next mod.

[Votanic]

@Vot, Also, for the hell of it, why should we believe that you are town? Explain how your posts ring more town than anyone else's. Especially when more people are voting you with whom you've played before.

A fair enough question. Of course, I cna't provide absolute proof (while alive...) but my actions, attitudes, and accusationsa all fall in line with a fair and relatively objective interpretation of what is good for town. unlike swang who skulks an minimally participates, unlike LC who wastes everybodys time with perposterous schemes, and unlike you an Max who did not just lynch a townie, but agressively campaigned for the lynch and buggy-whipped the bandwagon to the gallows all the way...

And now some of the same group is doing it again, and town is so demoralized that I think some of them won't even show up to read my posts, nevermind, stop the lynch of another Townie... I hope I'm wrong about that, but so far participation has been mediocre at best this game.

[Loose Canon]

Just for the record my D2 vote is on Max not Vot.

Equally suss of both but it is just leaning suspicion on both.

Appreciate the efforts vot puts into posts actually.

Just if I was given a free £100 bet on picking 2 mafia Max and Vot would be my selections.

[Charle]

It's all good that you think that we can just leave it now, but what I don't like about it is that you paint a certain picture of me that is untrue, and if I don't correct that and make you correct it, the narrative about me becomes all votanesque.

Ok, let me help you correct that, let's join Votanic and vote Swang

Vote Swang

[fusibaseball]

Vote Swang

[swang918]

I also think votanic should have to mod the next game

[Ragian]

I've said it numerous times, and I'll say it again: Sparse posting is not inherently scummy. What exactly is it that Swang has done? I just don't see him being scummy.

@Vot, yep, lynching D1 in a game with almost no PRs is the best way forward. I wanted to lynch DDS because of his deviation from his normal play. I know that you prefer to lynch someone based on your arbitrary rules of good citizenship, but that won't win any game (and you'll end up blaming the mod or other players).

I am, however, glad that you voted for me because you think, however unfounded, that I play differently from when I'm usually town (which is not true, but it's true that I'm more or less aggressive depending on my town role). I was last scum in Razor's (I think) crazy game where Max caught me because I claimed his role. Feel free to go through the archives and see if my behaviour in this game is in any way the same in this game.

Spoiler

It's not...

Now, you're OMGUS-voting Swang, which doesn't look good, but what looks interesting is your following of Charle and Fusi. Neither gave a reason for voting Swang, and Fusi didn't even post anything but his vote.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Im a spoooky ghoooooost

Vot should mod next game.

[Loose Canon]

So Swang has 3+ lynch votes.

I REPEAT what should happen now is Swang nominates the player he feels is most scummy then we make it between Swang and his nominee as to who gets lynched.

[Votanic]

Also, I vote for votanic as the next mod.

I also think votanic should have to mod the next game

Im a spoooky ghoooooost

Vot should mod next game.

I am truly and humbly honored.
I had no idea there was such a groundswell of support for me to engage my expertise as a Mafia mod.
I am seriously considering the proposal and will get back to you all with an answer soon.

[Ragian]

Even if that was sarcasm, I hope you'll mod a game <3

[*Pixar*]

I am all up for a swang push as he's on my original 3 to start today.

Vote Swang

[Loose Canon]

OK REALLY wanted Swang to have posted that he felt player X was most suss and therefore it was a lynch out between Swang and player X.

Because I REALLY think Town should be working systematically.
And because Swangs late posts end of D1 were later than I wanted to see them, didn't want to switch votes.

But time is on the countdown clock is ticking by.

Also I'm actually a bit uncomfortable that Swang has defended some of my posts and that I have liked the posts that Swang has made.

Having said that Swang has voted for Votanic.
I appreciate the volume of posts by Votanic but I've documented that he is in my top 2 leaning scum suspicious characters and why.
Also Swang is suss on Devante and reading the posts from Swang and Devante of the 2 I find Devante more suss.

So with reservations
Unvote Maxleod Vote Votanic

[Votanic]

OK REALLY wanted Swang to have posted that he felt player X was most suss and therefore it was a lynch out between Swang and player X.

Because I REALLY think Town should be working systematically.
And because Swangs late posts end of D1 were later than I wanted to see them, didn't want to switch votes.

But time is on the countdown clock is ticking by.

Also I'm actually a bit uncomfortable that Swang has defended some of my posts and that I have liked the posts that Swang has made.

Having said that Swang has voted for Votanic.
I appreciate the volume of posts by Votanic but I've documented that he is in my top 2 leaning scum suspicious characters and why.
Also Swang is suss on Devante and reading the posts from Swang and Devante of the 2 I find Devante more suss.

So with reservations
Unvote Maxleod Vote Votanic

More incomprehensible gobblygook form LC and then another vote for me.

Is it now 3 to 3 between me and swang??
Town, there are still 10 of us and only 3 of them, get involved and stop this nonsense NOW.
because god help you Townies..., if you let them lynch me you deserve your fate.

Furthermore,
Town needs to develop a firm moral code that players that play like Sonic or LC must be lynched ASAP...otherwise mafia gameplay and society at-large will continue to degenerate.
...and I don't jus tmean in this game, I mean in every game!

[strike wolf]

@Ragian: It's fair to say that the initial case against Swang was primarily about activity and not that strong on its own but don't you find it at least a little bit odd if not suspicious with the way the wagon turned at the very end?

[Maxleod]

Unvote, FOS EVERYONE

[Loose Canon]

Which of course Max does remove a suss vote by a suss player on a suss Votanic

[strike wolf]

I guess Vot had posted between me hitting post reply and hitting submit. Either way, can we get a vote count?

Also Vote Swang.

I think Swang gives us more information from how he flips than Vot would and the way yesterday ended is still the part of this game that sticks out to me.

Swang is scum: PMC would probably towards the top of my scum list then. He was a major part of the bandwagon turning. I would also like to look more at Ragian in this case. I feel this is a little less concrete as he was on DDS long before the bandwagon shifted but his post above did downplay the Swang case by making it all about his activity and ignoring how the day ended with the sudden bandwagon shift. I don't really know how to read Max very well but he was another who pushed DDS. Ragian also connected himself with Max some. So if one of them flips scum then it could be worthwhile to look into the other.

Swang is town: I would be more willing to trust PMC in particular. It's hard to tell if Pix is just being his normal inactive or scummy inactive with the way he's just kind of popped in at times. Particularly times like this last one where he popped in, gave minimal explanation and will now probably disappear again.

I have my misgivings about Vot and Kong either way. Kong is the one who I feel slightly more interested in. He's felt less active than he did in the last game where he was town and in there where his behavior was more questioning, here he's seemed more opportunistic about how he jumped onto cases D1. There's also the part where he sucked up to and tried to flatter Vot which felt like he could have just been hoping to get on Vot's good side.

[Loose Canon]

NO NO NO Strike.

End of D1;

Swang No Lynch
Max suggested swotch to DDS
Swang did switch to DDS
Kong Voted DDS
Devante Voted DDS
Strike "to be sure" Voted DDS

Now Strike asks Rag if he doesn't find the vote switch suspicious.
Strike had no right to ask that question!

Now we had 3 votes on Vot until Max switched to no lynch
Then Strike voting to lynch Swang.

Strike you mentioned counterstrategy - to my D1 strategy.
Obvious one N1 is to kill -1 if countering Town Tracker but -4 if countering Town JOAT who tracks N1.
-4 from number 4 Votanic was number 15 TraF.

There is BY FAR most suspicious circumstantial evidence on Votanic.
And now a massive FOS on Strike too!

Suspects;
1. Votanic
2. Maxleod
3 Strike

Bloody strong suspects too.

[Loose Canon]

Also re Vot we have his annoyance at the game makers.

Imagine his annoyance if the matrix gave scum an extra goon rather than power role.