Cat. Mafia Pain Killer & Kwanton WIN

kwanton · Post by **kwanton** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:12 pm

If memory serves fircoal was joking. And could you tell us your reasoning that the first lynch should be fircoal. If it's because of the "spam connection" I do not think it's enough to warrant a lynch. Even though they spammed a lot I don't see it as a guilty connection between the two.

And I think everyone should defend themselves against aimless' points. It would be a good way to start our investigations. Kudos to aimless for putting all his suspicions on the table.

I am always conservative with my votes. Chad I only voted for a deadline extension. I don't think anyone was sure he was scum. In my mind we got lucky. Red bull had already claimed scum. When I first came back red bull was at lynch -1. Red bull also said he had suspicions on who is scum. I wanted to see what those suspicions were before I hammered. Too bad someone did it before red bull came back.

And I do not think a mass role claim would be good. Since two of our power roles have already been NK'd we would be at a disadvantage since the remaining ones would be an easy target. Especially since our doc is dead. I think the only situation in which everyone should roleclaim is when the game is LYLO.

Aimless · Post by **Aimless** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:32 pm

kwanton wrote:If memory serves fircoal was joking. And could you tell us your reasoning that the first lynch should be fircoal. If it's because of the "spam connection" I do not think it's enough to warrant a lynch. Even though they spammed a lot I don't see it as a guilty connection between the two.

The spam connection, the early (and unnecessary) cop claim, and the fact that he's still alive after claiming cop are the primary bases of my suspicion.

kwanton wrote:And I do not think a mass role claim would be good. Since two of our power roles have already been NK'd we would be at a disadvantage since the remaining ones would be an easy target. Especially since our doc is dead. I think the only situation in which everyone should roleclaim is when the game is LYLO.

In an ordinary game, where we could count on the game lasting for several more days, I would agree with you. However, this is catastrophe. The game will probably end on Day 3. Thus, there is very little detriment to a mass claim; the odds are that the power roles are going to die whether they claim or not. It is thus better for the town to get as much information as we possible can right now.

The only exception to this should be that the backup doc (if we have one) should lie. That way, there's a chance that our cop will get protection.

kalishnikov · Post by **kalishnikov** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:40 pm

I'd be happy to defend my self against Aimless's post, but unfortunately I cannot because his suspicion of me is based on the voting habits of the person I'm replacing and I cannot speak as to what he was thinking with his votes. After re-reading, I certainly would not have choose the same votes he did but I can't fault him there because he probably had very different opinions then myself.

I can see your reasoning as to why you think the power roles should reveal themselves, Aimless; but with our doc gone, it seems to me like it would be better to stay hidden. Anyone stepping out with a pro-town power role is guaranteed dead tonight, as opposed to staying hidden you've got about a 1 in 3 chance of making till morning (assuming 4ish scum, 12 players, and we don't lynch any of our own).

One more thing, I'm betting on either 2 groups of scum or 1 group that gets multiple night kills. I've never played this type of mafia before, so perhaps the scum get multiple kills because we get multiple lynches? I did a bit of looking via Google and basically it said that choice is mod's discretion.

All I'm saying is it seems unlikely that the vig would kill the doc, then got NKed.

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:49 pm

As much as I dislike his spamming and his modding style, I strongly suggest Fircoal is not lynched yet.

My main suspect for now is Skoffin. She's never very active, but here she seems to be submarining more than usual.

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:52 pm

Forgot to

Vote Skoffin

I must admit I'm not sure, but I suspected her before reading Aimless' opening post, and his suspicion reinforced mine.

kwanton · Post by **kwanton** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:54 pm

Aimless wrote:The spam connection, the early (and unnecessary) cop claim, and the fact that he's still alive after claiming cop are the primary bases of my suspicion.

Page 15. Fircoal was joking about the cop claim. he said so himself. And I have no reason to believe that wasn't a joke. Even though I think it was tremendously stupid, i do not think that it is grounds for a lynch. At least not yet.

Fircoal · Post by **Fircoal** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:57 pm

Well first of all, I must add to your notes, that I also was trying to get Balsie lynched, and was one of the leaders of it. Sure you can base some suspicion there. As for my connection with Chad, I defended him because I thought they were terrible reasons, and besides, the same logic could power my lynch.

Also, as Kwan said, my cop claim was a JOKE! A JOKE! I WAS KIDDING! I'm not dumb enough to claim cop for no reason. now would I. I'm not a n00b. (*glares at certain people* ) And I'm alive after claiming cop because everyone but you understands, I was joking.

kwanton · Post by **kwanton** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:58 pm

Koesen wrote:As much as I dislike his spamming and his modding style, I strongly suggest Fircoal is not lynched yet.

My main suspect for now is Skoffin. She's never very active, but here she seems to be submarining more than usual.

This same exact debate has come up before in a different game. I don't remember which but it doesn't really matter.

Both me and skoffin have similar play styles. We are both very conservative with our votes and hold back more than we accuse. This has been a source of suspicion. Only difference is she tends not to take part in conversation unless absolutely neccesary and I wade right in and defend people who I don't think are scum even if doing so would bring suspicion on me.

That's just how she is. I don't see a reason for a lynch.

Fircoal · Post by **Fircoal** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:58 pm

Koesen wrote:As much as I dislike his spamming and his modding style, I strongly suggest Fircoal is not lynched yet.

What don't you like about my modding style? I'm I doing it too slow? I think I have been lately.

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:03 pm

kwanton wrote: That's just how she is.

That's true, which is why I am not sure. Nevertheless, for now she and ga7 are my main suspects.

Incidentally, I seem to remember a game in which both of you were scum, and you did a pretty good job of looking innocent

Fircoal, don't worry about that. Just do what you feel like doing. It wasn't meant as an attack and I don't want to mess up this thread with an irrelevant and not terribly important discussion.

Fos ga7

ga7 · Post by **ga7** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:59 pm

Well well well... I'll have to reread some stuff but let me ramble first:

Your list is a fine idea Aimless... It's a pity you only used as basis the final vote count for each lynch without digging any deeper, really. Maybe you'd have seen I was simply the first to seriously propose Chad's lynch (and was instantly bashed for that).

About the roleclaim, I highly doubt we can win on day 3 if there's a mass roleclaim now, it just doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't it be easier to discern who lies and whatnot in the next day, and make it all end then?

For the general suspicions, well I need to read back on Fircoal & Skoffin, but as for Fircoal I think it'd be a pretty stupid move for scum to kill Balsie if he was scum. Though as Chad ended up scum they might be adept of reverse logic so

Skoffin always seem to fly under the radar and that kinda bugs me though, I disagree when you say your playing styles are similar Kwanton, at least in this game.

On a side note, I'm surprised that no one thought about Mandy, he is the one who appeared the more scummy to me so far. I'll develop this later, night for me =)

kalishnikov · Post by **kalishnikov** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:19 pm

Skoffin always does that. Every game I've ever played with him (I think he's a him) he gets accused of submarining and called scummy, then someone votes him, he shows up shortly there after, offers some sort of explanation, everyone proceeds to forget about him again after he posts a few more times.

He may or may not be scum, I'm just saying what I've seen, exactly as kwanton has.

The only suspicious thing I've seen from mandalorian is that he's been quiet, but perhaps he's been busy? Dunno. Some games he's super-active, others he's a 1 post-per-page guy.

Fircoal doesn't really seem scummy either.

Balsifein looked scummiest too me but he's dead (and was a townie) so...

Fircoal · Post by **Fircoal** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:28 pm

kalishnikov wrote: Every game I've ever played with him (I think he's a him) he gets accused of submarining

She's a girl.

kalishnikov · Post by **kalishnikov** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:10 pm

Fircoal wrote:
kalishnikov wrote: Every game I've ever played with him (I think he's a him) he gets accused of submarining
She's a girl.

Oops, sorry Skoffin.

I didn't know that.

Incandenza · Post by **Incandenza** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:17 pm

So, right off the bat, how's it going guys?

I appreciate the list, aim, even tho it immediately makes me feel like you're playing the part of the helpful mafia...

Really quickly, I would say that my initial concept for lynching would definitely encompass anyone that voted for red bull (since the mafia had no way of knowing in advance that he was SK) and didn't vote for chad (since the mafia, is there is only one, would know him, and I can't imagine even the most hard-edged pragmatist voting for a fellow scumbag on day one, unless the lynch was a foregone conclusion). Of course, firth was one of those people, but that's not really my fault. ga7 and mandy are others, as is Fircoal (sorta).

Of all those, my suspicion most falls on mandy. I find it almost impossible to believe that the mafia would kill balseifen (upon whom a moderate amount of suspicion was laid) and red bull 2 and not mandy. Of course, they could be fucking with us (which also lays mafia-ness at the door of good players) or completely noobish (somewhat less plausible).

So let's just go ahead and FOS mandy.

As far as the mass roleclaim idea, let me roll that one around inside the ole' noggin for a bit.

The1exile · Post by **The1exile** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:22 pm

kwanton wrote:
Aimless wrote:The spam connection, the early (and unnecessary) cop claim, and the fact that he's still alive after claiming cop are the primary bases of my suspicion.
Page 15. Fircoal was joking about the cop claim. he said so himself. And I have no reason to believe that wasn't a joke. Even though I think it was tremendously stupid, i do not think that it is grounds for a lynch. At least not yet.

I disagree. Cop claims are not to be taken lightly. What if we had a cop who had counter claimed and was now dead because of that move? maybe he wanted that to happen?

Vote Fircoal

kwanton · Post by **kwanton** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:32 pm

Incan: I agree. When day came the fact that mandy was still alive struck me as odd. Most experienced players (or at least people who know how mandy plays) target him right away since he's so manipulative. Normally. In this game it seems he's laying low. That could be a scum tell too but for now I think we can do without his crazed rants

Exile: I hadn't thought of it that way. I don't want to get into a WIFOM argument......but I really don't think fircoal would do that. I thought it was just residual spamminess.But you do raise a good point. In any case I have agreed that it was a pretty stupid move. I'm just not sure whether it was scummy or not....

FOS fircoal

What was going through your head when you claimed?

Fircoal · Post by **Fircoal** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:03 pm

The1exile wrote:
kwanton wrote:
Aimless wrote:The spam connection, the early (and unnecessary) cop claim, and the fact that he's still alive after claiming cop are the primary bases of my suspicion.
Page 15. Fircoal was joking about the cop claim. he said so himself. And I have no reason to believe that wasn't a joke. Even though I think it was tremendously stupid, i do not think that it is grounds for a lynch. At least not yet.
I disagree. Cop claims are not to be taken lightly. What if we had a cop who had counter claimed and was now dead because of that move? maybe he wanted that to happen?

Vote Fircoal

Me think? I don't have plans. I just say random things.

Fircoal · Post by **Fircoal** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:05 pm

kwanton wrote: What was going through your head when you claimed?

I was trying to make myself look falsey scummy, annoy some people, trick people into believing it, and LAFF!

kwanton · Post by **kwanton** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:09 pm

Fircoal wrote:Me think? I don't have plans. I just say random things.

Sadly, this is actually the fircoal we all know and (some) love. Which is why I didn't think it was scummy. Just fircoal being fircoal. Sure he could be using our preconceived notions to trick us all, but really, I doubt it.

Fircoal · Post by **Fircoal** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:10 pm

kwanton wrote:
Fircoal wrote:Me think? I don't have plans. I just say random things.
Sadly, this is actually the fircoal we all know and (some) love. Which is why I didn't think it was scummy. Just fircoal being fircoal. Sure he could be using our preconceived notions to trick us all, but really, I doubt it.

Exactly, but actually, I do think. But it should be pretty easy to tell when.

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:40 pm

While I understand the theory that mafia would like to always immediately kill Mandy if he's not one of them, in my actual playing experience, he always or almost always makes it to Day Two.

Granted, I haven't played as many games as some of you, but in my reality, this theory doesn't stand.[/i]

ga7 · Post by **ga7** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:17 am

Ok, I looked back mostly at Chad's lynch because as RB was SK, I'm not sure it brings us as much info.

So, Chad spammed till page 6 then simply stopped talking, by purpose from what he said after.
Now, maybe I'm wrong, but if there's one scum doing that, almost getting away with it (as his lynch at the end was just because we needed a deadline extension) because some of us (me included) either found it hard to believe he was scum with this kind of behaviour or simply thought it was a random lynch; would another scum take the risk of doing the same and be associated with Chad even though it was obvious he was going to be lynched? (Yeah i'm talking of Fircoal

)

Scum took at shot with Balsie, a not obvious NK choice as he was in the heat at the end of the day. Wouldn't that be perfect to incriminate his accusers? (And yeah, that includes me too

)

On a side note, I'm forgetting the possibility the vig did kill Balsie and then died. Either way I think it's more credible that there's one mafia with several NKs, if I'm not mistaken usually when there's several mafia they are differenciated somehow no?

My list:

1. ga7:
+Voted early on Chad, supported his lynch on page 8, then unvoted to vote him again before the deadline.
-Voted for Balsie, unvoted, voted again, unvoted

6. The1Exile
-Didn't vote Chad, didn't want to vote Redbull after his SK claim??

7. PancakeMix
+First to vote for Chad, held and supported it

8. mandalorian2298
-Didn't want to vote for Chad on page 8, tried to switch the heat on me
-page 13 Only FOSing Chad when the deadline was coming??
-page 21 First to vote No Lynch after Redbull's lynch
-Tried to start a bandwagon on Spin for inactivity

9. Fircoal
+Voted for Chad near the deadline "I still think that Chad is town, but to prevent a no lynch I'll have to."

10. kwanton
+Voted Chad near the deadline

12. Koesen
+Voted for Chad kinda early (at least when it wasn't obvious he was gonna be lynched)

17. Aimless
+Voted Chad (pg

, held it
+Creator of the 3-lynches statistic law
-He's good enough to be scum even though

I didn't include, because of lack of input/activity (except for Firth but time will tell) :
2. Incandenza replaces firth4eva
11. Kalishnikov replaces spinwizard
14. Skoffin - I saw very few posts by her, so I'll take your word that it's her playing style; cause I think lynching non contributors is a waste of time at this point.
16. Pain Killer (Just got back)

Besides the facts above, Mandy has been quite low-key, and his posts trying to move the heat were pretty subtle. Now, I realize I'm yet again pretty agressive and that can be seen as an attempt to put the heat off me, but I've been convinced since long and don't want to let him get away with all this.

Vote Mandy.

The1exile · Post by **The1exile** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:15 am

ga7 wrote:On a side note, I'm forgetting the possibility the vig did kill Balsie and then died. Either way I think it's more credible that there's one mafia with several NKs, if I'm not mistaken usually when there's several mafia they are differenciated somehow no?

Right. Most likely we have one mafia and a couple of serial killers. Add the vig and multi-lynch and it's gonna get everyone killed pretty damn fast.

Aimless · Post by **Aimless** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:24 am

It's 3:30 AM, I'm really tired, and I have a penchant for making mafia posts when I should really know not to; ergo, if I accidentally say something completely stupid in this post, it's not a scum tell, it's an idiot tell.

That said, a couple of people have FOS'ed/Voted mandy. I would like to reiterate my above statement : I have good reason to believe he is not scum.

That said, my reason is not perfect (that is, there's the possibility that he's still scum; what I know regarding him is not a 100% guarantee); however, I'll know for certain if he roleclaims. Thus, if you believe him to be scum, pressure him, but don't hammer until I get a chance to see his claim.