Should modding game consoles be illegal?

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:37 am

Recently, a large number of shops got raided for providing services that included installing mod-chips in gaming consoles.

Personally I feel that this is completely unfounded, as while a chipped console certainly can be used to play games that are not paid for, there are innumerable uses that are perfectly legitimate. I have chipped probably 20 or so Xboxes all told (for friends and family mostly, some of which I was paid for, but most were done for free). For myself, gaming had nothing to do with the modifications, other than playing old arcade games with an installed MAME emulator. When I first started modding Xboxes my intention was to stream DivX movies from my PC. Now with XBMC an Xbox becomes a full featured media center, and is capable of playing any format that I can play on my PC. (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/info_screens.htm for an explanation of what this is).

Here is a link that goes much farther into the issue:
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php? ... 15575&st=0

This only touches the surface of what a chipped console can do. I am curious to know what you guys think about the issue.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:23 am

Riao wrote:Recently, a large number of shops got raided for providing services that included installing mod-chips in gaming consoles.

Personally I feel that this is completely unfounded, as while a chipped console certainly can be used to play games that are not paid for, there are innumerable uses that are perfectly legitimate.

Like watching movies that are not paid for.

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:26 am

2dimes wrote:
Riao wrote:Recently, a large number of shops got raided for providing services that included installing mod-chips in gaming consoles.

Personally I feel that this is completely unfounded, as while a chipped console certainly can be used to play games that are not paid for, there are innumerable uses that are perfectly legitimate.
Like watching movies that are not paid for.

Or movies that I DID pay for, ripped myself and keep on the larger HDD I installed in the 'Box. Just like I do with games that I pay for.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:30 am

I'm just jealous I can't afford to mod something to steal movies and game with.

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:43 am

*hides modded Xbox and Wii*

modding is bad, mkay....

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:40 am

So, what else can you do with this 'modding' malarky? Emulated old-skool arcade games are cool; but what other delightful possibilities does the enterprise provide?

0ojakeo0 · Post by **0ojakeo0** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:47 am

u can play any game? ho do u mod it

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:49 am

0ojakeo0 wrote:u can play any game? ho do u mod it

http://www.modchips.com

cawck mongler · Post by **cawck mongler** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:57 am

You can't effectively enforce it, so no it shouldn't be illegal.

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:59 am

cawck mongler wrote:You can't effectively enforce it, so no it shouldn't be illegal.

well, it is stealing games

cawck mongler · Post by **cawck mongler** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:21 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
cawck mongler wrote:You can't effectively enforce it, so no it shouldn't be illegal.
well, it is stealing games

WELL okay, it should be legal, but it would just be another bullshit law that no one can enforce.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:11 pm

Yeah, and I can record movies that I didn't buy with a VCR, but the VCR was deemed legal by the Supreme Court.

How is it different, on a fundamental level?

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:22 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:So, what else can you do with this 'modding' malarky? Emulated old-skool arcade games are cool; but what other delightful possibilities does the enterprise provide?

Browse YouTube videos, SHOUTcast radio stations, look up movie titles on IMDB, I have about 2 dozen user-created maps for Halo and Halo2 installed, and other user created maps for many other games, there are emulators for NES SNES Genesis SMS PS1 Commodore 64 etc, ported oldschool PC games like the first 3 Quake titles, Decent, etc, integrated UI for XLink Kai (a tunneling app used to connect system-link games over the internet), the list goes on and on.

Huckleberryhound · Post by **Huckleberryhound** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:23 pm

cawck mongler wrote:You can't effectively enforce it, so no it shouldn't be illegal.

By your rational, murder, rape, and heroin use shouldn't be illegal either.

I have no console, and play all my games on PC (which makes playing F.E.A.R online a bit of a pain in the ass, cheating fuckers

), so i have no opinion on this matter.

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:28 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
cawck mongler wrote:You can't effectively enforce it, so no it shouldn't be illegal.
well, it is stealing games

It's only stealing games if you use it to steal games. Simply having a mod-chip installed does not necessarily mean that the console will now be used for stealing games. To quote from the article I linked to above:

I look at modding as an act of expression and something someone does to expand their own knowledge and use of a system. It can be an exploratory learning experience, and yes it can also be used to do illegal things. Compare a modchip to a knife: In the hands of a sculptor a knife could create beautiful wood carvings, in the hands of a chef it could help create culinary masterpieces, it can keep you alive in the woods, and it can protect you in dangerous situations, but in the hands of a criminal it can also be used to destroy property or cause bodily damage. Much like a knife, a modchip's usage is very much determined by the intentions of it's user.

hecter · Post by **hecter** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:36 pm

Well, I have a soft-mod on my box which I can use to play ripped games and control a few other visual features of my box, including the LED. I like it. Think it's cool.

I don't think it should be illegal. You should be able to do what ever you want within the confines of the law with your property. The gaming console is your property, because you purchased it. If you want to mod it, fine. Go ahead. As long as you don't use it to do illegal things, such as stealing games. Computers can be used to steal. So do you go and outlaw computers? NO!! You try to catch the hackers that do it, and take preventative measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:57 pm

Well said.

It's not like I have to agree to a licensing agreement like with Windows. As far as I'm concerned a game console is legally in the same ballbark as a toaster. I pay for it and it's mine to do with as I please, as long as I don't use it for illegal activities.

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:06 pm

Riao wrote:Well said.

It's not like I have to agree to a licensing agreement like with Windows. As far as I'm concerned a game console is legally in the same ballbark as a toaster. I pay for it and it's mine to do with as I please, as long as I don't use it for illegal activities.

\

of course modding is legal, but the whole point of it is to download illegal games. Not getting those games is kinda like buying a paintbrush, but not buying the paint.

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:40 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:\

of course modding is legal, but the whole point of it is to download illegal games. Not getting those games is kinda like buying a paintbrush, but not buying the paint.

My whole point of this thread was that illegal games is not the whole point of modifying a console. I've already given many examples of reasons to mod that do not involve illegal activities. I can give more if you like.

Hitman079 · Post by **Hitman079** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:25 pm

maybe you're the only one against illegal gaming, because apparently "1" (probably you) said yes, it is wrong, and 13 others said no, it's not. i personally have no problem with it, since the people profiting from music, games, etc. have not been thrown onto the streets because of LimeWire or YouTube.

static_ice · Post by **static_ice** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:31 pm

Hitman079 wrote:maybe you're the only one against illegal gaming, because apparently "1" (probably you) said yes, it is wrong, and 13 others said no, it's not. i personally have no problem with it, since the people profiting from music, games, etc. have not been thrown onto the streets because of LimeWire or YouTube.

but the internet caused elton john to start bitching

kalishnikov · Post by **kalishnikov** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:36 pm

Absolutely not. Granted there are legal ramifications to copyright infringement, however in most places it's perfectly legal to make a back-up copy of any software you own legal (games, movies, whatever). The problem being, especially with games, you can't play it on an un-modded system.

Example, my little brother is 14 and has no respect for others' things. When I had my modded regular X-Box, I'd burn copies of all my games so he wouldn't destroy the originals (which of course are expensive) by leaving them out/scratching them up. Perfectly legal.

And of course I'd never have it modded so I could run an emulator and have 1 dvd with over a thousand old NES and arcade games... Never....

Regardless, you need the mod chip to perform a perfectly legal action. Outlawing them would be like prohibiting cigarette lighters because people can also use them to smoke pot or set off bombs. Just because some use them to an illegal end doesn't mean they should be banned.

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:47 pm

Hitman079 wrote:maybe you're the only one against illegal gaming, because apparently "1" (probably you) said yes, it is wrong, and 13 others said no, it's not. i personally have no problem with it, since the people profiting from music, games, etc. have not been thrown onto the streets because of LimeWire or YouTube.

Was this directed at me? Assuming it was, of course I voted that it shouldn't be illegal. As I stated in my opening post, I've modded somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 consoles for friends and family. I'm not even personally against illegal gaming, although I don't do it (unless you count the emulators for outdated systems).