The Educational System

[btownmeggy]

People in this forum love to complain about THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM. I've never heard so much belly-aching on this subject. I'm not saying that it doesn't have problems, but I wonder why you all think it's so horrible. Sure, I received a poor education in American public schools, but I know quite a few people who received good educations in them, too.

Please tell me, do you find the EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM of your country good or poor, and WHY?

[Norse]

It's been poor in Britain since around 2000.

We are sending kids to these state sponsered nurseries, and they are leaving without being able to do the basic things, like read and write.

Well, put it this way, one of the government incentives is the "3 R's" program....

But guess what the "3 R's" are?

Reading
Writing
Arithmatic

I only see one "R" in there. This speaks volumes about the governments educational commitment to our children.

But, alas, it is all a part of the plan, the thicker the kids coming out of our schools, the easier it will be to manipulate their idiotic minds.

I hate my government with a fiery, psychotic passion.

[cena-rules]

It's been poor in Britain since around 2000.

We are sending kids to these state sponsered nurseries, and they are leaving without being able to do the basic things, like read and write.

Well, put it this way, one of the government incentives is the "3 R's" program....

But guess what the "3 R's" are?

Reading
Writing
Arithmatic

I only see one "R" in there. This speaks volumes about the governments educational commitment to our children.

But, alas, it is all a part of the plan, the thicker the kids coming out of our schools, the easier it will be to manipulate their idiotic minds.

I hate my government with a fiery, psychotic passion.

all QFT

[vtmarik]

American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

[btownmeggy]

American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Do you think you'd be better off if you'd never gone to school?

[Guiscard]

It's been poor in Britain since around 2000.

We are sending kids to these state sponsered nurseries, and they are leaving without being able to do the basic things, like read and write.

Well, put it this way, one of the government incentives is the "3 R's" program....

But guess what the "3 R's" are?

Reading
Writing
Arithmatic

I only see one "R" in there. This speaks volumes about the governments educational commitment to our children.

But, alas, it is all a part of the plan, the thicker the kids coming out of our schools, the easier it will be to manipulate their idiotic minds.

I hate my government with a fiery, psychotic passion.

May I ask what experience you have of the educational system then (other than Daily Mail articles)?

Almost my entire family are involved in teaching / schools at some level. My father is a primary headteacher, my mother teaches special needs kids. My auntie is a secondary school teacher. I am a postgrad who takes undergraduates seminars. Both my grandparents were primary headteachers, so we we certainly gain a certain perspective in terms of how education has changed and evolved. There isn't a time when a member of my family has not been a teacher, other than a couple of years during WWII, since 1845 (I think).

I can tell you with a certainty that, although we certainly have significant issues (the difference in gender achievment being one) the things you describe are just plain lies! Literacy rates are higher than ever.

The problem with these kind of statistics is that the targets and figures sited are nearly always based on averages. The Telegraph will shout '30% of Boys fail to meet average literacy!'... Well of course they will! Thats the nature of an average! Some will fall below it, the majority will achieve it and some will exceed it! There's a lot of shit talked about the state of education in this country.

[Norse]

Oh of course, how silly of me.

I will now close my eyes, and happily hum away, rest assured knowing that the state education in this country is at an all time high.

Children are as intelligent and learned as ever before .Children in Britain are not illiterate, illnumeric and unpractical, and that we have spawned off some really bright decent children from our state schools.



Now, lets wake up here. Things are not fine.

FACTS
British teenagers have the worst academic record in the whole of europe. They are the most likely in europe to become pregnant before 16 in the whole of europe. They are the most likely to be on drugs/alcohol before 16 in the whole of europe.


They are at our state schools, more interested in teaching kids sex-education lessons, diversity classes, citizenship classes, when they cant even read and write.

These kids have not been educated in a practical way either, and (especially the lads, due to the industry in this country dissapearing) they see no purpose in life....quite a sad state of affairs.

My father is an engineering manager for a large firm. He has tried to take on a few apprentices recently, but he has remarked upon the absolute mental incompetence of anyone he has interviewed (between the ages of 16-19).


Face it, we are failing, and it's going to hit home when you finally realise that our benefit system is being raped by these shit-for-brained kids that our pathetic, incompetent educational system is throwing out.

So who are you going to blame for this? the parents?

[vtmarik]

American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Do you think you'd be better off if you'd never gone to school?

*shrugs* Considering how impressive the Montessori school I attended for my first few grades was and how quickly I blazed through my last semester of my senior year when I got my HS Diploma from community college, I probably could have done much better in a private or home school scenario.


It was better than nothing, but it wasn't far removed.

[Titanic]

Oh of course, how silly of me.

I will now close my eyes, and happily hum away, rest assured knowing that the state education in this country is at an all time high.

Children are as intelligent and learned as ever before .Children in Britain are not illiterate, illnumeric and unpractical, and that we have spawned off some really bright decent children from our state schools.



Now, lets wake up here. Things are not fine.

FACTS
British teenagers have the worst academic record in the whole of europe. They are the most likely in europe to become pregnant before 16 in the whole of europe. They are the most likely to be on drugs/alcohol before 16 in the whole of europe.


They are at our state schools, more interested in teaching kids sex-education lessons, diversity classes, citizenship classes, when they cant even read and write.

These kids have not been educated in a practical way either, and (especially the lads, due to the industry in this country dissapearing) they see no purpose in life....quite a sad state of affairs.

My father is an engineering manager for a large firm. He has tried to take on a few apprentices recently, but he has remarked upon the absolute mental incompetence of anyone he has interviewed (between the ages of 16-19).


Face it, we are failing, and it's going to hit home when you finally realise that our benefit system is being raped by these shit-for-brained kids that our pathetic, incompetent educational system is throwing out.

So who are you going to blame for this? the parents?

Thats complete crap. Worst academic record in Europe? Please show me proof, because I dont believe this for a second. We have one of the highest percentage of students who go to university for further education.

Teenagers in Britain may have the worst pregnancy rates and alcohol rates but stick to the subject, education, not youth behavior.

Also, we're getting our best ever results at A Levels (dunno bout GCSE's missed the publication of teh averages for them) and IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING EASIER. I took my A levels this year, and whoever achieved an A in any subject worked their arses off, just like me.

No purpose in life because industry is closing? The fact that our country does not rely on industry anymore is a good sign. No offence to your family or anyone else, but industry relies mainly on unskilled and semi-skilled workers. The services sector, which contributes over 60% of our economy in GDP relies on skilled and educated workers who have been thorgh university and have degrees.

Finally, you know why its called the 3 R's? Because it easy to remember its name and what it stands for. There is an r in each word which is stressed higher then other letters within the word. Would you remember it if it was called RWA?

[High Guard]

I'm originally from Russia, and our education system is 4th or 5th in the world, so yes I think we have a good education system, even considering that teachers don't get paid worth shit and some of our books are older then me. Russian education system is well designed, that I cannot say for the American system.

[Dmunster]

It's been poor in Britain since around 2000.

We are sending kids to these state sponsered nurseries, and they are leaving without being able to do the basic things, like read and write.

Well, put it this way, one of the government incentives is the "3 R's" program....

But guess what the "3 R's" are?

Reading
Writing
Arithmatic

I only see one "R" in there.

There are 3 r's in there just not the first letter of each word. I guess the British education system does suck...

[Nephilim]

i think US public education is really suffering. it's frighteningly bad.....my wife is a 7th grade teacher outside of raleigh, north carolina. our region is growing quickly, w/ lots of tech and academic jobs (due to Research Triangle Park and all the universities). this might lead you to believe that (educated) parents would be very concerned w/ their children's schooling, and that the overall quality of public schools might be very high here.

maybe it is, i can't compare to many other places. but if we are comparatively high here, i'm very scared for the country. i agree w/ marik (i think he said it), students are taught to just get by w/ the minimums. everything is dumbed down. struggling students are passed on regardless of their poor records. overcrowding, lack of funding, and bureaucratic inefficiencies are screwing the kids. teachers aren't allowed to give zeros for uncompleted assignments, as this could psychologically damage the child. bush's idiotic NCLB plan has exalted math and english (tho we still underperform there) at the expense of science and social studies.

i will say: in my own public school experience, some places are of course better than others. public school in suburban atlanta was exceptional; not so good in small town alabama and north carolina.

damn, i don't know what all the causes and effects of our system are/will be. we're not in a good place and i don't see it getting better. i deal w/ plenty of high school kids, and subjectively i am comfortable saying, they are dumber than their counterparts 10 or 20 years ago. maybe it's all the TV and video games......f*ck i'm depressed now

[The1exile]

It's been poor in Britain since around 2000.

We are sending kids to these state sponsered nurseries, and they are leaving without being able to do the basic things, like read and write.

Well, put it this way, one of the government incentives is the "3 R's" program....

But guess what the "3 R's" are?

Reading
Writing
Arithmatic

I only see one "R" in there.

There are 3 r's in there just not the first letter of each word. I guess the British education system does suck...

The only person who has ever told me about the 3 R's has been my grandparents, from when they were children. Norse is a bit out of date.

[Norse]

Thats complete crap. Worst academic record in Europe? Please show me proof, because I dont believe this for a second. We have one of the highest percentage of students who go to university for further education.

Yes, you scrote, because channeling kids down the university path covers up the unemployment figures, due to the lack of industry within Britain. So what next? are you going to tell me that a "media and film studies" degree is worth something? bah! Mcdonalds job later methinks. Another example of dumbed down.

Teenagers in Britain may have the worst pregnancy rates and alcohol rates but stick to the subject, education, not youth behavior.

I believe that the 2 go hand in hand, lack of discipline in school has alot to account for here.

Also, we're getting our best ever results at A Levels (dunno bout GCSE's missed the publication of teh averages for them) and IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING EASIER. I took my A levels this year, and whoever achieved an A in any subject worked their arses off, just like me.

hahahahahahahaha, just because you worked your ass off, doesnt mean you automatically deserve a bloody A.

If you don't like to face the fact that these poxy subjects have been dumbed down to accomodate thick kids, then please continue to stick your fingers in your ears

No purpose in life because industry is closing? The fact that our country does not rely on industry anymore is a good sign. No offence to your family or anyone else, but industry relies mainly on unskilled and semi-skilled workers. The services sector, which contributes over 60% of our economy in GDP relies on skilled and educated workers who have been thorgh university and have degrees.

You plonker, are you really that ignorant??

Industrial jobs only took on practical, skilled hard working people. I can'tt believe Im hearing this, but then again, this is what happens when I debate with piss stained nippers, you havent even begun to live yet.

Again, when your generation leave uni, with your "sociology" degrees, I will be getting served burger and fries by the most educated people ever!

Come to Britain!! get your burger and chips from a post grad student!

haha

Finally, you know why its called the 3 R's? Because it easy to remember its name and what it stands for. There is an r in each word which is stressed higher then other letters within the word. Would you remember it if it was called RWA?

Thisspeaks volumes about yourself as a person..."easy to remember"....

If it wasn't easy to remember, it would probably cause you some problems.

[Norse]

It's been poor in Britain since around 2000.

We are sending kids to these state sponsered nurseries, and they are leaving without being able to do the basic things, like read and write.

Well, put it this way, one of the government incentives is the "3 R's" program....

But guess what the "3 R's" are?

Reading
Writing
Arithmatic

I only see one "R" in there.

There are 3 r's in there just not the first letter of each word. I guess the British education system does suck...

You know what I meant, you plonker.

[The1exile]

Children are as intelligent and learned as ever before .Children in Britain are not illiterate, illnumeric and unpractical, and that we have spawned off some really bright decent children from our state schools.

the irony in that statement is mostly from your verbiage

Now, lets wake up here. Things are not fine.

FACTS
British teenagers have the worst academic record in the whole of europe. They are the most likely in europe to become pregnant before 16 in the whole of europe. They are the most likely to be on drugs/alcohol before 16 in the whole of europe.

As Titanic, I thought this was about academia, not a social commentary. But you're not seriously telling me that you expecting all teenagers of 14-16 years to sit at home like good kids doing their homework and staying against booze with religious fervour?

They are at our state schools, more interested in teaching kids sex-education lessons, diversity classes, citizenship classes, when they cant even read and write.

Odd. In the 12 years of full time education I have thus far endured, there are maybe 3 people I've met who couldn't actually read (out of several hundred), and one of them was dyslexic.

These kids have not been educated in a practical way either, and (especially the lads, due to the industry in this country dissapearing) they see no purpose in life....quite a sad state of affairs.

Teenage existential angst, the enemy of public education?

My father is an engineering manager for a large firm. He has tried to take on a few apprentices recently, but he has remarked upon the absolute mental incompetence of anyone he has interviewed (between the ages of 16-19).

This I can sympathise with. Our school ran several apprenticeship programs, and frankly, they don't appeal, The people who took them were basically talked out of every GCSE that they would have otherwise taken, the result? The people taking apprentices for A-levels get the ones who don't know crap, because the people actually knowing what they're doing are either taking A-levels in preparation for uni, or looking for a proper job.

Face it, we are failing, and it's going to hit home when you finally realise that our benefit system is being raped by these shit-for-brained kids that our pathetic, incompetent educational system is throwing out.

So who are you going to blame for this? the parents?

"It's a fair cop, but society is to blame." "Alright, we'll arrest them instead!" bonus marks if you can say where that's from

[Norse]

The only person who has ever told me about the 3 R's has been my grandparents, from when they were children. Norse is a bit out of date.

Do you not watch the news or listen to the radio? It's a buzz word that I hear constantly out of the mouths of education zealots.

[The1exile]

The only person who has ever told me about the 3 R's has been my grandparents, from when they were children. Norse is a bit out of date.

Do you not watch the news or listen to the radio? It's a buzz word that I hear constantly out of the mouths of education zealots.

BBC News 24 has been on almost constantly over the summer, so yes. And no, I didn't hear it. A lot of stuff about gun crime, stabbings and forest fires in greece, though, which would seem to indicate more problems in our policing than our education.

[Norse]

The only person who has ever told me about the 3 R's has been my grandparents, from when they were children. Norse is a bit out of date.

Do you not watch the news or listen to the radio? It's a buzz word that I hear constantly out of the mouths of education zealots.

BBC News 24 has been on almost constantly over the summer, so yes. And no, I didn't hear it. A lot of stuff about gun crime, stabbings and forest fires in greece, though, which would seem to indicate more problems in our policing than our education.

Well, I believe policing and education are twigs off of the same malignant branch, in our case.

One thing that you will learn in later life, is that all of this boils down to one thing, and one thing only.

Control.


Now, I'm certainly not going to spoon feed anyone here, if these are matters that anyone is concerned about, why not go out and do a little research about it.

But then again, ignorance is bliss...

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.”

[The1exile]

*shrugs* The world is (IMPFTNO) so screwed over anyway I find it hard to feel strongly about anything. I just argue with people for the hell of it.

[Titanic]

Yes, you scrote, because channeling kids down the university path covers up the unemployment figures, due to the lack of industry within Britain. So what next? are you going to tell me that a "media and film studies" degree is worth something?

Its an unemployment cover-up? I gotta say, that is original. The government are trying to get more students into university because its creates better prospects for them, and also then improves the economy as you have more highly educated people and more grads posting academic papers.

AS for media studies, what percentage of people actually study it? The sciences, social sciences and traditional subjects are still the most popular. ie. business, law, dentistry, medicine, other sciences, economics, etc... In other words, the ones which will help the country out and will lead to the people doing them having a professional life.

hahahahahahahaha, just because you worked your ass off, doesnt mean you automatically deserve a bloody A.

No, I said that to get an A you need to work your arse of, not that working your arse of alone gets you an A. Natural intelligence still plays a crucial part. Its around 85% effort and 15% natural intelligence in A level and degree study.

If you don't like to face the fact that these poxy subjects have been dumbed down to accomodate thick kids, then please continue to stick your fingers in your ears

Subjects been dumbed down? I'd love to see you try to do a maths a level, or biology, or chemistry or physics or economics or any of the other mainstream ones. Maths involved learning 60 chapters, which came to over 1000 pages of ormulae, statisitcal series, rules and everything within 2 years. Thats just one subject, imagine doing that for 3/4 subjects. ICT involves writing 5 pieces of coursework which have to be at least 80 pages to get a grade B, because you have to include so much information and detail. Physics is the hardest A level around, and out school has an 80% dropout in physics because so many people cannot hack it.

Industrial jobs only took on practical, skilled hard working people.

Skilled? Blue collar is not skilled. White collar is skilled. Industry floors are no place for university graduates.

Thisspeaks volumes about yourself as a person..."easy to remember"....

If it wasn't easy to remember, it would probably cause you some problems.

This really shows you up. Just because people are clever does not mean you should not make things easier.

[cawck mongler]

Yes, you scrote, because channeling kids down the university path covers up the unemployment figures, due to the lack of industry within Britain. So what next? are you going to tell me that a "media and film studies" degree is worth something?

Its an unemployment cover-up? I gotta say, that is original. The government are trying to get more students into university because its creates better prospects for them, and also then improves the economy as you have more highly educated people and more grads posting academic papers.

AS for media studies, what percentage of people actually study it? The sciences, social sciences and traditional subjects are still the most popular. ie. business, law, dentistry, medicine, other sciences, economics, etc... In other words, the ones which will help the country out and will lead to the people doing them having a professional life.

hahahahahahahaha, just because you worked your ass off, doesnt mean you automatically deserve a bloody A.

No, I said that to get an A you need to work your arse of, not that working your arse of alone gets you an A. Natural intelligence still plays a crucial part. Its around 85% effort and 15% natural intelligence in A level and degree study.

If you don't like to face the fact that these poxy subjects have been dumbed down to accomodate thick kids, then please continue to stick your fingers in your ears

Subjects been dumbed down? I'd love to see you try to do a maths a level, or biology, or chemistry or physics or economics or any of the other mainstream ones. Maths involved learning 60 chapters, which came to over 1000 pages of ormulae, statisitcal series, rules and everything within 2 years. Thats just one subject, imagine doing that for 3/4 subjects. ICT involves writing 5 pieces of coursework which have to be at least 80 pages to get a grade B, because you have to include so much information and detail. Physics is the hardest A level around, and out school has an 80% dropout in physics because so many people cannot hack it.

Industrial jobs only took on practical, skilled hard working people.

Skilled? Blue collar is not skilled. White collar is skilled. Industry floors are no place for university graduates.

Thisspeaks volumes about yourself as a person..."easy to remember"....

If it wasn't easy to remember, it would probably cause you some problems.

This really shows you up. Just because people are clever does not mean you should not make things easier.

Hey you little AmeriKan fucker, without industry your not bringing any new revenue into your country, and with dentists and shit you're just recycling the money in your country. Keep playing with your imaginary money, see where it gets you in 50 years when the economic climate changes and your no longer the financial capital of the world and you shipped off all your factories to Mexico.

I don't know what the f*ck your talking about with that white and blue collar bullshit, but last time I checked an engineer has to have a unviersity education. You're confusing the sweatshops in China with real 21st century factories dumbass.

[The1exile]

Hey you little AmeriKan fucker

Titanic is british

[cawck mongler]

Hey you little AmeriKan fucker

Titanic is british

Then he's even worse off. Atleast Amerika Land of the Oligarchy Mafia Retarded Government has natural resources to fall back on.

[Norse]

The government are trying to get more students into university because its creates better prospects for them, and also then improves the economy as you have more highly educated people and more grads posting academic papers.

oh really?


If you can point me towards a place where any governmental/statistical report can prove this, then I would gladly accept.

But the fact here, is that you seem to be sucking too many egg's here. Where are they going to work when idustry has finally petered out?

for the government? ha!

No, I said that to get an A you need to work your arse of, not that working your arse of alone gets you an A. Natural intelligence still plays a crucial part. Its around 85% effort and 15% natural intelligence in A level and degree study

LMFAO! what, so you have calculated this yourself? or did you just pluck these figures out of the air.

Your standing on shallow ice here

Subjects been dumbed down? I'd love to see you try to do a maths a level, or biology, or chemistry or physics or economics or any of the other mainstream ones.

well bugger me, I've only got my maths (A), physics(C) and electronics(B) A-Levels, a HNC in electronics, numerous NVQ's and many other minor qualifications, and am studying for my degree in Physics at the moment (part time though, as I've got a busy job to hold down).....

Did you think you was dealing with somebody who hasn't been through the system?

Skilled? Blue collar is not skilled. White collar is skilled. Industry floors are no place for university graduates.

Honestly, it's like you're reading this shit out of a childrens story book...

I bet you're the kind of person who turns his nose up at highway maintenance workers, not realising that highways maintenance guys are on twice as much cash as an office worker, and has probably sat more exams than them too.

You need to get back in touch with reality boy

Just because people are clever does not mean you should not make things easier.

I think that this sums it up about you.