Time and Space

[fireedud]

Space is infinite because space is regarded ad nothingness, and therfore can not have boundaries, unless outside the universe (or multi-universal dimension) is completely made up of dense matter (so dence that they could not have space between the atoms, which is impossible.



Also time is not a dimension, it is merely a mesurment that humans use to organize their lives.

[Bouncer]

i'm sorry fireedud -
i know my last post used a cheesy analogy, skipped over the physics and made some wild generalizations -
but at least i put some thought into it!

so think on these -
who regards space as 'nothingness'?
is space really 'nothingness'. or does it contain things?
why are certain dense stars known as neutron stars?
would time continue to exist without humans, clocks and calenders?

go on - google it.......

[Jehan]

nice explanation, thats starting to make sense now mate, ok so the expanding universe isn't so much an exploding grenade as it is a stretching 4d plane,
Isn't space filled with lots of matter-antimatter particles being created and annihilating each other? hence the shape of the map of the cosmic background radiation.
to clarify it was mandalorians question which i asked myself a while ago which got me tremendously confused, because i came to the conclusion that time slowing or speeding up would have no noticeable effect on us.
I guess i also approached the problem from the point of view of an outside observer to the universe, and wondered if the universe starts off looking like a point to them then would it remain so now?

[unriggable]

They only seem infinite as we as a race are only exist in 3 dimensions. That is out of a total of 7.

Now that's interesting. Are you just being flippant or have 7 dimensions been enumerated/theorized?

Seven is just an idea, I think some say string theory requires an additional 8 dimensions (total 11) to work.

[Jehan]

^ yep, thats m theory.

[Bouncer]

hi Jehan -
i'm glad i was able to clarify things a bit - and your description of the expanding universe as a stretching 4d plane sounds spot on. in fact, the physicist. martin weiner, describes the expansion of the universe as the stretching of time. ie it takes more time to travel to other galaxies. but he's into string theory and it probably makes more sense in that field.

your question regarding 'space filled with lots of matter-antimatter particles being created and annihilating each other', is a correct assumption as i understand it. but it has nothing to do with the cosmic background radiation, and instead the particles (usually described as an electron and a positron) are the result of seemingly independent quantum events.
according to quantum mechanics, these events occur in all spaces in the universe, even between my nose and the monitor. but the strangest aspect of these quantum events is that they are able to borrow energy from the future in order allow particles to spontaneously exist - this energy is then paid back in full with their mutual annihilation.
cool eh? and perhaps a mechanism for kick-starting the big-bang?

as for the cosmic background radiation, this is simply microwave radiation, or in other words - heat.
known as the MBR, i think the average temperature measured for the radiation is around 3-4 degrees above absolute zero, there are minor fluctuations, but that is surprisingly warm for the perceived coldness of interstellar space.
the heat covers all the known universe in every direction and can only be explained if is considered as the residue of heat left over from when the universe was a much hotter and denser place. in fact, the age of the universe and the temperature of the MBR correlate perfectly if this were the case.
in other words, its nailed-on evidence for the big bang.

gotta go - i'll do my best if you have more questions

[Jehan]

hey nice explanation with the time expanding, though the quantum fluctuations do have a link to the cosmic background radiation, its one of the results of the COBE explorer vehicle, and for that the people in charge of COBE were awarded the nobel prize for physics. The map of the radiation coming in from the sky actually maps exactly like quantum fluctuations do, which helps uncover what was happening at that particular point in time, just after the big bang, and helps explain the conglomeration of matter.

[mandalorian2298]

space-time is inherent in the fabric of the universe, therefore the expansion of the universe is the expansion of space-time - it has been defined and debated, and it certainly has measurable effects on everything inside it.

Pray tell me at which speed does Time expand?

1 second per second.

Lol. Shouldn't it be 1 extra second per second?

[AtomicSlug]

^ yep, thats m theory.

Exactly. M-Theory dictates 11 dimensions. 10 spatial and 1 time.
Also - our universe is expanding and accelerating, so there will be no "big crush" then another big bang, just everything going dark and dead.

Now if that doesn't depress you, I don't know what will.

Also check out the "Hubble Barrier" for more info on the universe expanding faster than the speed of light.

[The Kurgan]

Wait a second....

What is time anyway?

[autoload]

I have to poop.

[unriggable]

^ yep, thats m theory.

Exactly. M-Theory dictates 11 dimensions. 10 spatial and 1 time.
Also - our universe is expanding and accelerating, so there will be no "big crush" then another big bang, just everything going dark and dead.

Now if that doesn't depress you, I don't know what will.

Also check out the "Hubble Barrier" for more info on the universe expanding faster than the speed of light.

Not necessarily...

Multiple spatial dimensions are like religion, unprovable, so we'll stay away from that (even though I think there are four, five if you include time which I don't).

But that thing about expansion is kind of strange to predict. Everything is clustering, forming dense clumps and leaving pockets of empty space around it. Maybe he biggest of the big will form an enormous black hole that will pull everything towards itself, followed by another primordial atom and another big bang. Who knows, maybe if that was true then this is the fourth, fifth, sixth universe maybe, and this life is an exact replica of that past existence.

But maybe I'm wrong.

hub ble Barrier shows nothing of interest on Google, were you referring to the first few seconds after the big bang when matter moved faster than the speed of light?

[Jehan]

this was pretty good, though i'm pretty sure its nowhere near what actually happens.
http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php
and guys, autoload needs to poop, just thought i'd reiterate.

[Bouncer]

unlike the cosmic microwave background, the quantum fluctuations within space cannot be detected, therefore they cannot be mapped. their presence is only inferable from the laws of quantum mechanics and as a workable explanation for the structure of the universe.

the COBE explorer mapped the cosmic microwave background in much more detail than ever before - showing us its temperature variations to a much finer scale.
the excepted explanation of why some patches of the cosmic microwave background are hotter than others, is that at some time earlier in the universe, before its rapid inflation, these patches were denser than the surrounding space. which was good news for the universe as these variations in density gave rise to the formation of stars and galaxies.

and the given explanation for the variations in density of the early universe is that quantum fluctuations slightly unbalanced the mutual annihilation of matter and anti-matter - (apparently, it is not a perfect process, as the uncertainty principle demonstrates) - resulting in the residual formation of stable matter - at least in the visible universe as we see it today.

and i'm sorry unriggable, but i have to take exception to your previous post.
just because certain phenonema are not directly provable does not make them 'like religion'. scientific theories are not an act of faith, and unlike religion, can certainly be strongly inferred from the evidence given. i cannot prove that sedimentary rock was formed over millions of years on ancient sea-beds, but thats what all the evidence points to. the same applies to other, as yet, directly unprovable phenonema, such as the shape of our galaxy, the evolution of the species, continental drift, the big-bang, multiple dimensions etc etc -
science progresses by making certain assumptions regarding reality - if this assumption fits the facts, then it becomes a theory to help us better understand the universe - absolute proof would be better, but that can come later, if at all. relativity wasnt actually proved until many years after einstein's death.
but of course, if just one piece of sound evidence should disprove it - than the whole theory collapses.
if we ignored such theories on the grounds of their direct unprovability, then we would still be living in the dark ages - with religion our only refuge.

regarding blackholes - the universe may well end up containing nothing but one super-giant blackhole. but while a blackhole could never explode and generate another big-bang, it does slowly lose energy - and over a vast amount of time the blackhole will simply fade away and all the matter that was once in the universe will be reduced to nothing more than low energy photons.

[AtomicSlug]

Wait a second....

What is time anyway?

Time is relative.
On Earth, it is divided and multiplied into/to intervals of the Earth revolving around our Sun.