9/11 Conspiracies(threads merged)

[mr. incrediball]

If there were any truth to the conspiracy theories, the mass media would have picked up on it by now... unless they're all in on it, too. And you'd have to be pretty paranoid to believe that.

That is extremely naive.

The mass-media are the one's who are partly behind this. They orchestrated the entire fabrication.

Really? All of them? All of the people who work for the mass media? The reporters, the editors, the cameramen, the mail-room workers, the IT staff, the CEOs, the on-air talent? And not one of those people would ever come forward? Even on a website like Indymedia or PrisonPlanet? Even though the kids who made Loose Change are still alive?

Philip K. Dick once said that Reality is that thing that, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

You wouldnt need a fraction of the entire media workforce..

Take old footage, apply computer magic.

Reporters are told what bias to take, and are kept in the dark.

A little research for you to do, if you are interested in learning the truth. Who controls all of the media stations? Who controlled the trade-centre, and surrounding buildings? Who controls the world banking association?


If you really cannot see the wood through the tree's, I pity you.

wait, so you're saying they faked a video that looked exactly like home videos that eyewitnesses took?

so naive.

... how many people do you believe are in on this?

[mr. incrediball]

It seems like everytime in this conversation, when vtmarik or someone proves why you are wrong. You don't come back with a reason they are wrong. Instead you say something like well this firefighter said different or you just say it again and say that no one is listening to you. I think Norse and xtratabasco are the ones who aren't listening.

Pathetic.

Any convincing arguements that have been placed under your noses have been ignored.

I really fear for you. In fact, no I don't, anyone who is willingly blind to the blatant facts is deserving of what they get.

if they're so blatant, how come most people still "ignore" them?

[moo_lol]

I'm really beginning to get annoyed at having to repeat myself to every half-wit on this goddam site.

That is hardly a satisfactory answer if you're really hoping to win people to your side. There are likely many people who were involved in the investigation and reporting of the events of 9/11/01 who are much smarter than you, so they must not be half-wits even if I am. Once someone resorts to name-calling, the argument is over.

I hate using this phrase, but go back and re-read.

You can't just expect the world to stop, and rewind for you personally. Woul;d you like me to copy and paste the entire dialogue for you?

Why don't you go back, and read through the entire thread, including watching the original video.

And I'll see something that will convince me the conspiracies are true? And this has failed to become common knowledge how? It doesn't add up, Norse.

You are obviously very emotional when it comes to this subject. I understand. Most of us here in the states have had it with this administration, too. But if we let our emotions get the better of us, we become vulnerable to crack-pot ideas that villanize our enemies. Once you start wanting a notion to be true and start molding evidence to fit your notion of reality (as opposed to the other way around), you ceased to be a rational person.

[Norse]

... how many people do you believe are in on this?

Interesting question.

I couldn't possibly put a finger on the numbers. All you need is a few key players within the media, a few scape goats, and a few financial higher-ups.

I'm pretty sure that even the government are partially kept in the dark, though when I say government, I mean the actual politicians, as opposed to the back-room lurkers.

Can't be sure really, anywhere between 50 - 1000.

[mr. incrediball]

... how many people do you believe are in on this?

Interesting question.

I couldn't possibly put a finger on the numbers. All you need is a few key players within the media, a few scape goats, and a few financial higher-ups.

I'm pretty sure that even the government are partially kept in the dark, though when I say government, I mean the actual politicians, as opposed to the back-room lurkers.

Can't be sure really, anywhere between 50 - 1000.

so nobody who happened to be recording a video in new york when the twin towers blew up has a real video to compare it to?

norse, i think you want this to be a conspiracy a little too badly...

[Norse]

Moo, I will tell you your options.

You can either continue to excercise your pedantic streak, or you can actually try and research the matter closely.

[Norse]

... how many people do you believe are in on this?

Interesting question.

I couldn't possibly put a finger on the numbers. All you need is a few key players within the media, a few scape goats, and a few financial higher-ups.

I'm pretty sure that even the government are partially kept in the dark, though when I say government, I mean the actual politicians, as opposed to the back-room lurkers.

Can't be sure really, anywhere between 50 - 1000.

so nobody who happened to be recording a video in new york when the twin towers blew up has a real video to compare it to?

norse, i think you want this to be a conspiracy a little too badly...

Who would be touring New york on a bleak autumn morning at 9 o clock during the commuter rush? Whilst videoing the twin towers?

Except, of course, people who had been planted there to create a video for the later editing.

Why is there no other footage of the planes? surely there would have been other video's showing the plane en-route to the twin towers?

[mr. incrediball]

... how many people do you believe are in on this?

Interesting question.

I couldn't possibly put a finger on the numbers. All you need is a few key players within the media, a few scape goats, and a few financial higher-ups.

I'm pretty sure that even the government are partially kept in the dark, though when I say government, I mean the actual politicians, as opposed to the back-room lurkers.

Can't be sure really, anywhere between 50 - 1000.

so nobody who happened to be recording a video in new york when the twin towers blew up has a real video to compare it to?

norse, i think you want this to be a conspiracy a little too badly...

Who would be touring New york on a bleak autumn morning at 9 o clock during the commuter rush?

Except, of course, people who had been planted there to create a video for the later editing.

oh, i don't know,

people making wedding videos
holiday videos
christening videos
bar/bat mitzvah videos
amateur movies
security cameras
documentaries
tv shows
the list goes on...

and you tell me none of these cameras could see the buildings at the time of the explosions?

[Backglass]

I couldn't possibly put a finger on the numbers. All you need is a few key players within the media, a few scape goats, and a few financial higher-ups.

I'm pretty sure that even the government are partially kept in the dark, though when I say government, I mean the actual politicians, as opposed to the back-room lurkers.

Can't be sure really, anywhere between 50 - 1000.

Again, since I work in "the media" I am very curious to know how you think this works...in your view. You type as if "The Media" is a shadowy fraternity or secret society. It's just a job...like yours. (And we all know you do yours VERY WELL! )

So...A few Viacom, Clear Channel and NBC Vice Presidents get together and tell every reporter in the USA to dump all footage they have in favor of their "doctored" version? Is that how it works?

Please explain.

[mr. incrediball]

... how many people do you believe are in on this?

Interesting question.

I couldn't possibly put a finger on the numbers. All you need is a few key players within the media, a few scape goats, and a few financial higher-ups.

I'm pretty sure that even the government are partially kept in the dark, though when I say government, I mean the actual politicians, as opposed to the back-room lurkers.

Can't be sure really, anywhere between 50 - 1000.

so nobody who happened to be recording a video in new york when the twin towers blew up has a real video to compare it to?

norse, i think you want this to be a conspiracy a little too badly...

Who would be touring New york on a bleak autumn morning at 9 o clock during the commuter rush? Whilst videoing the twin towers?

Except, of course, people who had been planted there to create a video for the later editing.

Why is there no other footage of the planes? surely there would have been other video's showing the plane en-route to the twin towers?

ok, next time you look up in the air, see a plane and go "oh, look, it's the twelve-o-clock from london to beijing" i'll consider that argument.

[vtmarik]

You wouldnt need a fraction of the entire media workforce..

Ok?

Take old footage, apply computer magic.

Problem, forensic specialists are quite capable of telling real tape from doctored tape.

Reporters are told what bias to take, and are kept in the dark.

A little research for you to do, if you are interested in learning the truth. Who controls all of the media stations? Who controlled the trade-centre, and surrounding buildings? Who controls the world banking association?

Alright, since you're so in-the-know. Who controls and runs all of those things?

Who would be touring New york on a bleak autumn morning at 9 o clock during the commuter rush? Whilst videoing the twin towers?

Except, of course, people who had been planted there to create a video for the later editing.

Why is there no other footage of the planes? surely there would have been other video's showing the plane en-route to the twin towers?

First off, tourists would be.

Why is there no other footage? I don't know, why isn't there footage of everything before a disaster happens? Because people don't usually turn on their cameras until something bad happens. Same reason you don't see footage of a guy with a gun entering a bank, only leaving.

Sounds like you want to live in a country that has cameras everywhere that can see everything at once. Sounds like you'd be more at home in the old Soviet Union (or the new one that seems to be in the early stages of forming).

[moo_lol]

Moo, I will tell you your options.

You can either continue to excercise your pedantic streak, or you can actually try and research the matter closely.

Once again you have failed to address the issue that I brought up. Here's how the argument goes:

1) You claim there is a conspiracy.
2) You back up this claim by linking/quoting others on the internet who are of the same opinion as you.
3) I counter by pointing out that the media has access to this same information, but for some reason has decided to reject it. I propose that this must be because the conspiracies are as crazy as they sound.
4) You counter by ignoring me and telling me to look at your links/quotes again.

The common thread among all conspiracy theories seems to be a hyper-competent government and a complicit media. If you believe in these, fine, but it really makes you sound like a nutjob. Some people really seem to have a need to be "in the know" and in a constant struggle against an evil shadowy empire. Why don't you read comic books as an outlet for this emotional need of yours? (I'm sorry, I know I've resorted to name-calling now, but this is how arguments like this end up making me. Creationists get to me even more.)

[Norse]

Problem, forensic specialists are quite capable of telling real tape from doctored tape.

Has there ever been a forensic specialist that has analysed these tapes? Any evidence of this? linky please?

Alright, since you're so in-the-know. Who controls and runs all of those things?

How many times have I got to tell you kiddo, I'm not going to spoon feed you, research it yourself if you have any interest.

First off, tourists would be.

Yes, tourists at 8.40am in the morning, video-taping the twin towers on an autumn morning, how very quaint.

Why is there no other footage? I don't know, why isn't there footage of everything before a disaster happens? Because people don't usually turn on their cameras until something bad happens. Same reason you don't see footage of a guy with a gun entering a bank, only leaving.

Why is there no footage? in one of the largest metropolitan cities in the entire world? Surely one single video camera...just one, a CCTV camera from another building, just one ikle-bitty camera...but in a cityof 16 million people, a city so collosal, we dont see this?
Hmmmmm, very very suspicious.

Sounds like you want to live in a country that has cameras everywhere that can see everything at once. Sounds like you'd be more at home in the old Soviet Union (or the new one that seems to be in the early stages of forming).

This literally made me spit my beer at the screen...hahahaha

Of course, when I think of CCTV camera's, I think of stalin himself...that old CCTV merchant, he was banging out so many CCTV systems, it was like a fucking surveilance camera jamboree!

For your information, Britain has the highest CCTV systems per head for any nation in the world.

And no, I dont likeit, but then again, I dont like the idea of governments killing their own citizens.

[Norse]

Moo, I will tell you your options.

You can either continue to excercise your pedantic streak, or you can actually try and research the matter closely.

Once again you have failed to address the issue that I brought up. Here's how the argument goes:

1) You claim there is a conspiracy.
2) You back up this claim by linking/quoting others on the internet who are of the same opinion as you.
3) I counter by pointing out that the media has access to this same information, but for some reason has decided to reject it. I propose that this must be because the conspiracies are as crazy as they sound.
4) You counter by ignoring me and telling me to look at your links/quotes again.

The common thread among all conspiracy theories seems to be a hyper-competent government and a complicit media. If you believe in these, fine, but it really makes you sound like a nutjob. Some people really seem to have a need to be "in the know" and in a constant struggle against an evil shadowy empire. Why don't you read comic books as an outlet for this emotional need of yours? (I'm sorry, I know I've resorted to name-calling now, but this is how arguments like this end up making me. Creationists get to me even more.)

Moo, The conversations between me and you are over. Bye!

[mr. incrediball]

yay! i made an unanswerable response!

this... is... the... best day of my life!!!

[moo_lol]

Moo, The conversations between me and you are over. Bye!

lol, sure thing. nice meeting you.

[Norse]

yay! i made an unanswerable response!

this... is... the... best day of my life!!!

Don't be childish.

I haven't got the time to keep repeating myself to slovenly people who cannot be asked to pull their fingers out of their asses and do their own research.

Besides, Im fighting on so many fooking fronts at the moment....

[mr. incrediball]

yay! i made an unanswerable response!

this... is... the... best day of my life!!!

Don't be childish.

I haven't got the time to keep repeating myself to slovenly people who cannot be asked to pull their fingers out of their asses and do their own research.

Besides, Im fighting on so many fooking fronts at the moment....

nice insults, it's a pity that you feel you have to resort to them

(i'm talking to you too MOO_LOL)

[Norse]

yay! i made an unanswerable response!

this... is... the... best day of my life!!!

Don't be childish.

I haven't got the time to keep repeating myself to slovenly people who cannot be asked to pull their fingers out of their asses and do their own research.

Besides, Im fighting on so many fooking fronts at the moment....

nice insults, it's a pity that you feel you have to resort to them

(i'm talking to you too MOO_LOL)

speaking about retorting, have you dug up any other video's that show, catagorically, that the plane was seen heading to the twin towers? Or did it miraculously appear out of thin air?

[mr. incrediball]

yay! i made an unanswerable response!

this... is... the... best day of my life!!!

Don't be childish.

I haven't got the time to keep repeating myself to slovenly people who cannot be asked to pull their fingers out of their asses and do their own research.

Besides, Im fighting on so many fooking fronts at the moment....

nice insults, it's a pity that you feel you have to resort to them

(i'm talking to you too MOO_LOL)

speaking about retorting, have you dug up any other video's that show, catagorically, that the plane was seen heading to the twin towers? Or did it miraculously appear out of thin air?

aren't undoctored videos of planes crashing into the towers enough for you? or should i devote my entire life to getting a managment job in the headquarters of whichever airline those planes happen to be from, and digging through their records, and finding the flight plan, just to please you?

Edit: speaking of which, why have you now changed to the view that the planes weren't there in the first place? I thought your original view was that the planes were there, but they didn't cause the buildings to fall.

[Norse]

aren't undoctored videos of planes crashing into the towers enough for you? or should i devote my entire life to getting a managment job in the headquarters of whichever airline those planes happen to be from, and digging through their records, and finding the flight plan, just to please you?

sure, or you could devote your life to sarcastic no-brain retorts.

Edit: speaking of which, why have you now changed to the view that the planes weren't there in the first place? I thought your original view was that the planes were there, but they didn't cause the buildings to fall.

no no no, any post that I had written in terms of the structural damage were hypothetical, in which I also clearly stated that it was hypothetical.

I was disproving the hypothetical planes alleged damage to the structure, thus showing that a plane would not have brought down the twin towers, and showing that there was a pre-meditated demolition excercise at the heart of it.

[moo_lol]

sure, or you could devote your life to sarcastic no-brain retorts.

I'm thinking about making this my signature.

[Norse]

sure, or you could devote your life to sarcastic no-brain retorts.

I'm thinking about making this my signature.

The irony is not lost on me.

[Backglass]

Anytime you would like to answer my questions, I would love to hear your reponse.

[Norse]

Again, since I work in "the media" I am very curious to know how you think this works...in your view. You type as if "The Media" is a shadowy fraternity or secret society. It's just a job...like yours. (And we all know you do yours VERY WELL! )

Well, I understand where you are coming from, but the fact of the matter is, that the media is controlled by people who have a hidden agenda...Rupert murdoch for instance has always been known to play a lurking, shady role in the politics of britain.

Im not reffering to your bog standard camera operator, or journalist, Im talking about the higher-ups.

So...A few Viacom, Clear Channel and NBC Vice Presidents get together and tell every reporter in the USA to dump all footage they have in favor of their "doctored" version? Is that how it works?

Please explain.

Look, as we all know, the media has a great deal of swing in the altering of peoples opinions.

Doyou truely think that the owners of such a populace-controlling device as the media would be absolutely un-biased, and 100% fair?

The media is the new-age religion, it sets consensus for the masses, and the fact that every major network owner is a part of the bilderberger group (do you know who they are, bilderberger?) strikes me in such a way that I believe that the higher-ups within media have a murky, malicious agenda.