Flame Wars needs to go!

[wrestler1ump]

If you check the thread "Flame Wars Needs to Go", you will see that it has turned into another brainless flaming contest, in a part of the forum that is not meant for flaming no less. Flame wars goes runs completely contrerary to the forum guidelines. If we let flame wars stay, people will think they are free to flame on other parts of the forum, which they have been doing a lot of lately.

Let's consider the consequences of getting rid of flame wars. If we get rid of them, a few posters will be upset. But at least the behaviour on the forums will be consistent with the forum guidelines, and people of different races and backgrounds will not be offended by seeing some of the prejudice that goes on there. Getting rid of Flame Wars will clean up the entire site. Level-headed individuals will be less likely to play a few games, see the foul language and prejudice on the forums, and leave the site forever.

I think that whether or not flame wars remain on the site really depends on what kind of a crowd we want this place to attract. As far as I see it, this site is more than entertaining enough without the insults.

Your thoughts?

[Twill]

Starting a new thread doesn't help Wrestler1ump.

Lets try to keep all the debate in one place, please?

Let this thread die or I can lock it

[Frigidus]

If you check the thread "Flame Wars Needs to Go", you will see that it has turned into another brainless flaming contest, in a part of the forum that is not meant for flaming no less.

Considering that the very idea of the "Flame Wars Needs to Go" thread is saying that the entire place is full of perverted scumbags it's no wonder that you got flamed for making it.

Flame wars goes runs completely contrerary to the forum guidelines. If we let flame wars stay, people will think they are free to flame on other parts of the forum, which they have been doing a lot of lately.

They are free to flame on other parts of the forum. That part of the forum was made for flaming. Should aggression be forbidden altogether or does the forums very existence make your eyes bleed?

Let's consider the consequences of getting rid of flame wars. If we get rid of them, a few posters will be upset. But at least the behaviour on the forums will be consistent with the forum guidelines, and people of different races and backgrounds will not be offended by seeing some of the prejudice that goes on there.

"Trash your opponents here. Not for the easily offended!" There is a warning for a reason. Besides, if there was no flame wars you wouldn't have anything to post in any more. Seriously, how many of these "Flame Wars Sucks" threads are you going to make?

Getting rid of Flame Wars will clean up the entire site. Level-headed individuals will be less likely to play a few games, see the foul language and prejudice on the forums, and leave the site forever.

If someone went into a sub-forum specifically designed for insulting others, was shocked and offended by something they saw, and then left the site forever...well, were they expecting meaningful dialogue or what?

I think that whether or not flame wars remain on the site really depends on what kind of a crowd we want this place to attract. As far as I see it, this site is more than entertaining enough without the insults.

Each sub-forum is for a different kind of crowd. I personally prefer The Clubhouse, so I mainly hang out there. Why don't you make a firm decision?

Your thoughts?

See above.

[Syzygy]

Again, .

You're stupid little righteous and holier-than-thou act isn't fooling anybody.

[wicked]

VOTE SZIGGY for flaming outside of flame wars.

[Syzygy]

That wasn't a flame - it was pure fact.

Anyone who interacted with lump before he got banned knew the kind of person he was.

Now he's putting on a righteous act.

It's laughable actually.

[wicked]

Putting someone down, whether fact or fiction, is indeed a flame. If I wanted to tell you how much I think you suck at mafia, I'd need to go to flame wars to do it (just kidding - please don't kill me tonite!).

Besides, anyone can turn over a new leaf. Whether it's an act or not, it's still commendable. Wrestler sets a good example of trying to change his ways. I for one hope he keeps it up.

[Syzygy]

Alright Wicked One, I'll zip my lip here and nightkill you elsewhere.

But it is a ridiculous act.

Anyway, shouldn't this be locked being a duplicate thread and all that jazz.

[wicked]

nah I'll merge it. would hate for my posts to be in vain.

[Syzygy]

Ah, I envy your powers.

[PhatJoey]

B.K. Guh-runt and his minions are trying their best to goad me into replying to their flame thread (including sending me a PM invitation) and I know they are monitoring this one. So I will in turn challenge them to come here to THIS forum and argue their point in an appropriate manner and actually attempt to apply logic instead of flaming and resorting to their usual boorish behavior. I don't think think he, Ronalhindo, and their ilk can manage it, but perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised . . . let's see . . . waiting . . .

[PhatJoey]

Okay. I'm not actually waiting. I'll go watch a movie and check back in later. After all, they will need time to find a thesaurus that can replace the words they normally use and the library is probably closed.

[PhatJoey]

I hope they can actually put forward their ideas. It would be fun and interesting to actually talk to them as I am sure they normally act in their REAL lives. Maybe they are actually nice people?

[Syzygy]

Okay. I'm not actually waiting. I'll go watch a movie and check back in later. After all, they will need time to find a thesaurus that can replace the words they normally use and the library is probably closed.

Say, isn't that a (weak) flame I detect there?

[Visaoni]

Okay. I'm not actually waiting. I'll go watch a movie and check back in later. After all, they will need time to find a thesaurus that can replace the words they normally use and the library is probably closed.

Say, isn't that a (weak) flame I detect there?

Silly Syzygy. You need to think about this for a moment. Flame Wars is still open correct? Therefor, he may be thinking the rest of the forum is free for flame, however weak. Once we close Flame Wars, nobody will make the mistake of trying to flame in general or whatnot. But as long as it's open... who knows!

[Syzygy]

Okay. I'm not actually waiting. I'll go watch a movie and check back in later. After all, they will need time to find a thesaurus that can replace the words they normally use and the library is probably closed.

Say, isn't that a (weak) flame I detect there?

Silly Syzygy. You need to think about this for a moment. Flame Wars is still open correct? Therefor, he may be thinking the rest of the forum is free for flame, however weak. Once we close Flame Wars, nobody will make the mistake of trying to flame in general or whatnot. But as long as it's open... who knows!

I have though about this.

Almost every single forum on the internet whether they have a flame forum has flaming in some form of another, whether minor insults or shocking profanities.

Flame wars is like a quarantine zone. Closing it is not going to prevent people from flaming elsewhere, in fact, I think it will have the opposite effect.

[PhatJoey]

No. Sorry. That was not intended as an insult. Just an honest assessment of the situation. Afterall, it took me several weeks of considering how to put forward my ideas regarding Flame Wars before I was able to proceed. I am sure they will need a little time. I can wait.

[suggs]

fair comment about an intelligent rebuttal of your anti-Flame Wars position Phatjoey.
Still, my last brain cell went quite some time ago so this will have to do...
I'm basically making the same points that has been made over and over again. That is to say:

1) Its completely harmless
2) You dont have to enter the Forum if you dont like it
3) Freedom of Speech (but apparently thats contraversial these days...)
4) Theres a disclaimer-not for the easily etc
5) If you ban Flame wars, idiots like myself may well splurge their nonesense in other, more "family friendly" forums.
6) Flame Wars is moderated, so it never gets too out of hand-i speak from rueful experience...

Reckon thats enough to be getting on with...
On a personal level Joey, I suspect you're taking it all way too... personally. If i was you, i would Flame whoever you want, have a laugh, and not care about what other people may say.
Rock on-and keep it "Phat".

[PhatJoey]

Hey Suggs! Glad to see you make it. To address your points:

1) It hurts just reading it. So it cannot be harmless. Debasing yourself even in mock form always carries a bit of truth with it. It's like the idea of practicing how you're going to play in sports. If you just say things often enough, you will eventually really start to think that way.
2) But what about those that go there by accident? What about those that are just offended by the subject matter listed in the "last posting" portion of the Forums opening page before you even get to the Flame Wars?
3) Once again, freedom of speech never meant you can say whatever you want. Study your history. It was always intended to be used with a great deal of responsibility.
4) Disclaimer - sure it's there. That does not make it right.
5) First off, you aren't an idiot because you can put your thoughts together in a coherent manner. Secondly, if they do . . . ban them. It's a violation of the rules.
6) I disagree. Flame Wars ALWAYS get way out of hand. The mods only take action when someone complains because they are overworked and as far as I know they are volunteers.

And finally, I am not taking this too personally at all. I just asked if anyone thought it was time for Flame Wars to go. Obviously at this point, a majority agrees that it should. But it is not overwhelming. Probably because most players never enter the Forums at all.

Those who have chosen to attack me personally are the ones who are taking this too personally. But that's okay. They can get in line to take their turn with everyone who wants one. I can take it. Mostly because I believe what I say and only say what I believe.

[HayesA]

1) It hurts just reading it. So it cannot be harmless. Debasing yourself even in mock form always carries a bit of truth with it. It's like the idea of practicing how you're going to play in sports. If you just say things often enough, you will eventually really start to think that way.

So, by that reasoning, simply because it's painful to read/see thus it's harmful is utter nonsense. By that line of reasoning, you'd have to ban all sports which involve contact. Even Tennis, and any other sport which involved some sort of contact. (Chess, and checker pieces make contact to the board, thus it's violent, and must be banned.) My point is that extremes don't work in arguments at all.

2) But what about those that go there by accident? What about those that are just offended by the subject matter listed in the "last posting" portion of the Forums opening page before you even get to the Flame Wars?

Do you really read every single forum listing, and last pote thread names? I know I do not. Yes, my eyes do glance over it, but it certainly is not registered in my cognitive thoughts. It's very easy to simply not read it. Plus, while I accept accidents do happen, and you click flame wars by accident, it takes all of 2 seconds to hit the back button.

3) Once again, freedom of speech never meant you can say whatever you want. Study your history. It was always intended to be used with a great deal of responsibility.

Well, for once, I cannot argue this point. Freedom of Speech was meant to be used with responsibility. But since, due to recent trends in social acceptance, this has become more and more moot in general. Yes, some people are arrested, and charged with speaking their mind, but those are quote obvious violations. Like screaming fire in a crowded theatre.

4) Disclaimer - sure it's there. That does not make it right.

Again, you're using a scale of acceptance that no one but your self can use. It may not be right for you, but it may be just fine for others. So, what IS right? What level of acceptance is correct??

6) I disagree. Flame Wars ALWAYS get way out of hand. The mods only take action when someone complains because they are overworked and as far as I know they are volunteers.

While yes, there are activities that go un-checked while in the forum. But then again, i've seen quite a lot of stuff that has been caught by the mod team. I believe they have been doing a fine job.

[b.k. barunt]

B.K. Guh-runt and his minions are trying their best to goad me into replying to their flame thread (including sending me a PM invitation) and I know they are monitoring this one. So I will in turn challenge them to come here to THIS forum and argue their point in an appropriate manner and actually attempt to apply logic instead of flaming and resorting to their usual boorish behavior. I don't think think he, Ronalhindo, and their ilk can manage it, but perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised . . . let's see . . . waiting . . .

Evidently PJ here cannot abide by his own admonished standards of "appropriate" behavior, but i will try, out of respect for wicked, to reply appropriately without putting PJ down. Perhaps if he would like to sling some more (i won't even say lame) insults, he might summon up the courage to accept my invitation to flame wars.
So let us examine the situation here appropriately. We have a special forum set aside specifically for blowing off steam in a barbaric and totally inappropriate manner. Huzzah! There are those of us who are not by nature civilized, and living in society as we know it can be maddening. People like PJ love rules and regulations - i find them constricting. He loves police because they keep him safe - i don't need them to keep me safe, and all they are to me is a pain in the . . . um . . . neck. The safer and more predictable life gets, the happier PJ is, and the crazier i get. I ride a bike instead of a car, and that helps some, and having a place like flame wars to blow off steam helps some too. I used to have an outlaw biker bar to hang out in, but too many yuppies moved across the lake from New Orleans, and they managed to have it closed down - much like PJ and his fellow . . . um . . . complainers (wicked you owe me bigtime for this) want to do with flame wars. As a result, homicides went up for a while, as did assaults and other fun and games, but after a couple years or so, they managed to drive most of the barbarians north a few miles. I myself married a yuppie (when she was still a hippie type in college mind you - they didn't have yuppies yet back then) so i'm stuck here. I try to behave myself, but i'm slowly reaching critical mass. Now i ask you, would you rather have me rant and rave a little on the flame war forum, or read about me in the paper when i finally redline and walk into the nearest Dairy Queen with an AK47?
If you don't like flame wars, stay the . . . um . . . don't go there. Is that too simple for you? Then come to the thread i made in your honor in Flame Wars and i'll give you a more in depth explanation.


Honibaz

[wicked]

Bravo!

Let's all make it our mission now to yuppify BK!

*hands BK Birkenstocks*

[David_Wain]

I voted yes... Flame Wars is a waste of time.

[jiminski]

I voted yes... Flame Wars is a waste of time.

hehehehe you are a one man Flame War David.

[jiminski]

If you check the thread "Flame Wars Needs to Go", you will see that it has turned into another brainless flaming contest,


Your thoughts?

You mean this thread?

My thoughts are you may be looking at a different thread. This has been an impassioned but civilised debate.