CC History Faculty

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:30 am

b.k. barunt wrote: Actually this all started when i simply used Islam as an example of how history repeats itself. As usual this hits a sensitive nerve with guiscard, and elicits incredibly long winded posts. As usual, the fact that Islam is a violent and oppressive religion is countered by either guiscard or one of his lackeys with "oh yeah, so is Chistianity (actually Catholicism). Wtf? Catholicism and Islam are both violent and oppressive religions - so what else is new?

Most religions, including Christianity and Islam are peaceful in its teachings. The PEOPLE are the one who are misusing religious ground to justify violence. Jesus or Muhamed didn't teach to kill or harm "the others" and that's a fact. If there was no Islam people will simply find other things (religions) to justify their acts. And I don't think that history is repeating itself. That's a medieval and early modern thought (that everything happens in this great circle).

muy_thaiguy · Post by **muy_thaiguy** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:32 am

ignotus wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote: Actually this all started when i simply used Islam as an example of how history repeats itself. As usual this hits a sensitive nerve with guiscard, and elicits incredibly long winded posts. As usual, the fact that Islam is a violent and oppressive religion is countered by either guiscard or one of his lackeys with "oh yeah, so is Chistianity (actually Catholicism). Wtf? Catholicism and Islam are both violent and oppressive religions - so what else is new?
Most religions, including Christianity and Islam are peaceful in its teachings. The PEOPLE are the one who are misusing religious ground to justify violence. Jesus or Muhamed didn't teach to kill or harm "the others" and that's a fact. If there was no Islam people will simply find other things (religions) to justify their acts. And I don't think that history is repeating itself. That's a medieval and early modern thought (that everything happens in this great circle).

Well, actually, Muhammed led several battles during his lifetime.

d.gishman · Post by **d.gishman** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:32 am

My favorite areas of study are Roman, Far Eastern, World War Two, 18th-19th Century Europe, the "barbarian" tribes of Europe, and American. I just like reading about it though, I am not a professional historian in any way.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:33 am

Guys I'd much rather keep this one history based rather than getting into religious debate. Feel free to take it to another thread, but you're not gonna convince BK either way.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:34 am

d.gishman wrote:My favorite areas of study are Roman, Far Eastern, World War Two, 18th-19th Century Europe, the "barbarian" tribes of Europe, and American. I just like reading about it though, I am not a professional historian in any way.

Pretty much everything then

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:35 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:Well, actually, Muhammed led several battles during his lifetime.

Yes, that's true. But he find a way to peacefully unite people of Mecca and Medina. He didn't slaughter them just because they were in a war against him.

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:51 am

I'll make the most of my anonimity on the web to say this without getting arrested.
Mohammad was a terrorist who slaughtered innocent men women and children in raids
Read the Koran, look at history, dont just swallow what the PC sysem tells you to "all beliefs and cultures are valid and promote peace gnagnagngan" it sickens me.
Mohammad launched raids on innocent traders and seized and killed them. He stoned jews to death, he promoted a sickening society,and on his deathbed initiated the onslaught of islamofascist fury we are still seeeing today.
And in Europe, our dhimmi politicians lick their arses to get their votes
Pathetic.
CHARLES MARTEL RETURN, THEY'RE AT IT AGAIN

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:56 am

Guiscard wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:Actually this all started when i simply used Islam as an example of how history repeats itself. As usual this hits a sensitive nerve with guiscard, and elicits incredibly long winded posts. As usual, the fact that Islam is a violent and oppressive religion is countered by either guiscard or one of his lackeys with "oh yeah, so is Chistianity (actually Catholicism). Wtf? Catholicism and Islam are both violent and oppressive religions - so what else is new?
OK. Care to stay out of the thread from now on, then?

No dearie, i love watching you get your panties in a wad. I guess i'm partial to pseudo intellectual posers like yourself - silly me.

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:03 am

Guiscard wrote:Guys I'd much rather keep this one history based rather than getting into religious debate. Feel free to take it to another thread, but you're not gonna convince BK either way.

I gave an example of how history repeats itself in response to Ambrose's question of why should we study history. Guiscard, in response, launches into a hissy fit about Islam. Now i'm the one starting a religious debate? How do you spell H Y P O C R I S Y ? Can anyone on here find a thread where mister openminded here was "convinced" away from his much vaunted opinions?

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:07 am

b.k. barunt wrote:
Guiscard wrote:Guys I'd much rather keep this one history based rather than getting into religious debate. Feel free to take it to another thread, but you're not gonna convince BK either way.
I gave an example of how history repeats itself in response to Ambrose's question of why should we study history. Guiscard, in response, launches into a hissy fit about Islam. Now i'm the one starting a religious debate? How do you spell H Y P O C R I S Y ? Can anyone on here find a thread where mister openminded here was "convinced" away from his much vaunted opinions?

Well this is "open for all" forum so I guess you're right.

Tyr · Post by **Tyr** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:09 am

can anyone tell me how the ostrogoths made it to north africa?

Gypsys Kiss · Post by **Gypsys Kiss** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:18 am

unfortunately history is populated by political or religous fanatics. most wars are politically or religously motivated(okay at least one was caused by a woman).you cant separate them from history.

However that is not an excuse to say that one religion is more barbaric than any other.Every religion, with the possible exception of buddhism, has blood on its hands. So lets cut the crap and discus history not religion.

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:19 am

Tyr wrote:can anyone tell me how the ostrogoths made it to north africa?

You mean Vandals?

Well Visigoths pushed them from today's Spain (when they defeated Alans) so they simply moved to North Africa.

Tyr · Post by **Tyr** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:20 am

pretty sure it was the ostrogoths

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:21 am

Define religion. For me "A set of beliefs centred around the sacred."

Every religion is not valid. The Nazis had sme occulto-paganist religions that preached...welll you can imagine.Islamis no better than that. Whats more, yes every religion has violent terrorist fanatics, but in Islam, theirs just so happened to found it.

(I say violence in the unjust sense, I recognise Jesus used violence cf. Matthew 11, but in the context of just violence)

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:32 am

Tyr wrote:pretty sure it was the ostrogoths

Well they were east Germanic tribe...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals#Th ... rth_Africa

Ostrogoths ruled today's Italy mostly, and Vizigoths part of today's France and whole Iberian peninsula. The movement of Vizigoths caused Vandals to move to North Africa (today's North Algeria, Tunisia and part of Libya).

That was the situation on the end of 5th century. Byzantines broke Ostrogoth and Vandal kingdoms, and Vizigothic kingdom was defeated by Franks and Arabs in 6th and 7th century.

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:58 pm

Napoleon, lets keep it to history - if you want to start a thread on religion, i'll be glad to join in.

Tyr · Post by **Tyr** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:59 pm

ignotus wrote:
Tyr wrote:pretty sure it was the ostrogoths
Well they were east Germanic tribe...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals#Th ... rth_Africa

Ostrogoths ruled today's Italy mostly, and Vizigoths part of today's France and whole Iberian peninsula. The movement of Vizigoths caused Vandals to move to North Africa (today's North Algeria, Tunisia and part of Libya).

That was the situation on the end of 5th century. Byzantines broke Ostrogoth and Vandal kingdoms, and Vizigothic kingdom was defeated by Franks and Arabs in 6th and 7th century.

it was the vandals i looked it up

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:07 pm

Tyr wrote: it was the vandals i looked it up

I figured. I opened all my books and couldn't found Ostrogoths in North Africa anywhere. Then I looked on Wiki again and no...

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:11 pm

b.k. barunt wrote:Napoleon, lets keep it to history - if you want to start a thread on religion, i'll be glad to join in.

Honibaz.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:20 pm

ignotus wrote:
Tyr wrote: it was the vandals i looked it up
I figured. I opened all my books and couldn't found Ostrogoths in North Africa anywhere. Then I looked on Wiki again and no...

According to Rome Total War the Ostrogoths were only around to take the are around the pyrenees.

muy_thaiguy · Post by **muy_thaiguy** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:29 pm

Tyr wrote:pretty sure it was the ostrogoths

No, it was the Vandals. They took over the re-built city of Carthage after being pushed out of the Iberian Peninsula. From there, they launched offensives into the Italian Peninsula, and eventually sacked Rome. Where do you think the term "vandalism" comes from?

ignotus · Post by **ignotus** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:29 pm

unriggable wrote:
ignotus wrote:
Tyr wrote: it was the vandals i looked it up
I figured. I opened all my books and couldn't found Ostrogoths in North Africa anywhere. Then I looked on Wiki again and no...
According to Rome Total War the Ostrogoths were only around to take the are around the pyrenees.

magruder · Post by **magruder** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:27 pm

One of the problems with Islam, is that historically it has been expressed through a theocracy. Theocratic states are dangerous things.
The West by contrast, even at the height of papal influence has kept clear of that problem. Anyone disagree

daddy1gringo · Post by **daddy1gringo** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:35 am

I have a B.A. in History from UConn (Go Huskies) I guess you could call my area of interest "Roots of American thought" (assuming you don't consider "American thought" an oxymoron

) I start with the ancient middle east, go through Greece and Rome, and stick with Europe through the Reformation, where I kind of lose interest and pick up in the U.S. Along the way I picked up a love for word origins.

The History degree didn't do me too much good on the job market. I stumbled across opicianry and did that for 17 years, but I am currently working a schlock job as I try to transition to secondary school teacher.

CC History Faculty

Theocracy