gay - is it ok?

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:15 am

fucking hell beastly....U have got a brain after all!!

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:37 am

Good lookin too.

Honibaz

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:42 am

Beastly wrote:People aren't allowed to disagree with someone else's lifestyle? or else they are a bad person or a bigot or so on and so forth? I don't think there is anything wrong with someone if they don't like homosexuality. I do believe it is wrong to discriminate against gays, or hate crimes. But it is equally wrong to discriminate against someone for not agreeing with you.

It's okay to be racist.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:22 pm

unriggable wrote:
Beastly wrote:People aren't allowed to disagree with someone else's lifestyle? or else they are a bad person or a bigot or so on and so forth? I don't think there is anything wrong with someone if they don't like homosexuality. I do believe it is wrong to discriminate against gays, or hate crimes. But it is equally wrong to discriminate against someone for not agreeing with you.
It's okay to be racist.

"I hate you because you're black" or "I hate you because you hate blacks" is there a difference? Hate is hate.

Now, just because a person disagrees with homosexuality being a "normal" lifestyle, does not mean that they hate homosexuals. But can we have an opinion? Or must we fall in line with what is "politically correct"?

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:30 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
unriggable wrote:
Beastly wrote:People aren't allowed to disagree with someone else's lifestyle? or else they are a bad person or a bigot or so on and so forth? I don't think there is anything wrong with someone if they don't like homosexuality. I do believe it is wrong to discriminate against gays, or hate crimes. But it is equally wrong to discriminate against someone for not agreeing with you.
It's okay to be racist.

"I hate you because you're black" or "I hate you because you hate blacks" is there a difference? Hate is hate.

Now, just because a person disagrees with homosexuality being a "normal" lifestyle, does not mean that they hate homosexuals. But can we have an opinion? Or must we fall in line with what is "politically correct"?

But it is a normal lifestyle.

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:43 pm

unriggable wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
hecter wrote:Whothefuck cares whether or not is biological or psychological? The fact of the matter is, that's the way they are, they didn't choose to be that way, and they're not going to change or go away.
It's important because if it's biological, it simply is, through no fault of anyone's. If it is psychological, if it's aberrant behavior with preventable causes, than there needs to be treatment to help them overcome it.
What if they want to be gay?

They can't be wishing to be gay or not. They can act like one, or go out with guys if he finds it amusing, but if he is straight to start off, he will be attracted by women, not men.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:48 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
unriggable wrote:
Beastly wrote:People aren't allowed to disagree with someone else's lifestyle? or else they are a bad person or a bigot or so on and so forth? I don't think there is anything wrong with someone if they don't like homosexuality. I do believe it is wrong to discriminate against gays, or hate crimes. But it is equally wrong to discriminate against someone for not agreeing with you.
It's okay to be racist.

"I hate you because you're black" or "I hate you because you hate blacks" is there a difference? Hate is hate.

Now, just because a person disagrees with homosexuality being a "normal" lifestyle, does not mean that they hate homosexuals. But can we have an opinion? Or must we fall in line with what is "politically correct"?

So then its ok for us to disagree with religion in schools?

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:48 pm

freezie wrote:
unriggable wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
hecter wrote:Whothefuck cares whether or not is biological or psychological? The fact of the matter is, that's the way they are, they didn't choose to be that way, and they're not going to change or go away.
It's important because if it's biological, it simply is, through no fault of anyone's. If it is psychological, if it's aberrant behavior with preventable causes, than there needs to be treatment to help them overcome it.
What if they want to be gay?

They can't be wishing to be gay or not. They can act like one, or go out with guys if he finds it amusing, but if he is straight to start off, he will be attracted by women, not men.

Bisexual?

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:48 pm

Beastly wrote:I find it Ironic, that the vote was only for straight males....

I also find it Ironic, that if someone doesn't agree with it, they are bigots.

What about bigotry of people who are don't agree with homosexuality.

People aren't allowed to disagree with someone else's lifestyle? or else they are a bad person or a bigot or so on and so forth? I don't think there is anything wrong with someone if they don't like homosexuality. I do believe it is wrong to discriminate against gays, or hate crimes. But it is equally wrong to discriminate against someone for not agreeing with you.

Calling someone a bigot because they don't agree with a lifestyle is just as bad as putting someone down because you don't agree with the way they choose to live.

It is not a choice

You were almost right.

But to rectify it...If someone doesn't agree with homosexuality, then they have to disagree with the fact people with physical problems when they were borned ( Missing his legs, arms, whatever comes into mind ) still can lead normal lives.

The only thing I don't agree with, is that it is making such a fuss everywhere.

LEAVE THEM ALONE! Just like every other couples.

You don't agree they should live like normal people? Well, they are normal, to start off..

Then you would have to disagree about a woman and a man living together.

Syzygy · Post by **Syzygy** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:49 pm

Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
unriggable wrote:
Beastly wrote:People aren't allowed to disagree with someone else's lifestyle? or else they are a bad person or a bigot or so on and so forth? I don't think there is anything wrong with someone if they don't like homosexuality. I do believe it is wrong to discriminate against gays, or hate crimes. But it is equally wrong to discriminate against someone for not agreeing with you.
It's okay to be racist.

"I hate you because you're black" or "I hate you because you hate blacks" is there a difference? Hate is hate.

Now, just because a person disagrees with homosexuality being a "normal" lifestyle, does not mean that they hate homosexuals. But can we have an opinion? Or must we fall in line with what is "politically correct"?
So then its ok for us to disagree with religion in schools?

Of course it is, though I doubt jay will admit that.

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:50 pm

Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:
unriggable wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
hecter wrote:Whothefuck cares whether or not is biological or psychological? The fact of the matter is, that's the way they are, they didn't choose to be that way, and they're not going to change or go away.
It's important because if it's biological, it simply is, through no fault of anyone's. If it is psychological, if it's aberrant behavior with preventable causes, than there needs to be treatment to help them overcome it.
What if they want to be gay?

They can't be wishing to be gay or not. They can act like one, or go out with guys if he finds it amusing, but if he is straight to start off, he will be attracted by women, not men.
Bisexual?

You still can't chose to like women or men, you will just be attracted to both the genders. Then, like I said, you can make the choice of going after a man or a woman. Still doesn't change you can't choose to be attracted to men alone if you are not borned that way first.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:51 pm

freezie wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:
unriggable wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
hecter wrote:Whothefuck cares whether or not is biological or psychological? The fact of the matter is, that's the way they are, they didn't choose to be that way, and they're not going to change or go away.
It's important because if it's biological, it simply is, through no fault of anyone's. If it is psychological, if it's aberrant behavior with preventable causes, than there needs to be treatment to help them overcome it.
What if they want to be gay?

They can't be wishing to be gay or not. They can act like one, or go out with guys if he finds it amusing, but if he is straight to start off, he will be attracted by women, not men.
Bisexual?

You still can't chose to like women or men, you will just be attracted to both the genders. Then, like I said, you can make the choice of going after a man or a woman. Still doesn't change you can't choose to be attracted to men alone if you are not borned that way first.

Some would argue that we're all somewhere on a scale of bisexuality. its not a three way switch.

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:52 pm

Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:55 pm

freezie wrote:Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway

Not necessarily. I could be more attracted to girls than I am guys but coose only to act on my homosexual feelings because I prefer the culture, lifestyle and emotional ties of homosexuality. Or I could be much more attracted to guys than girls but never act on my homosexual feelings, and go with a steady girlfriend, because of the negative baggage surrounding homosexuality.

if we did everything our body urged us to do then the world would be a messy messy place...

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:02 pm

Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway
Not necessarily. I could be more attracted to girls than I am guys but coose only to act on my homosexual feelings because I prefer the culture, lifestyle and emotional ties of homosexuality. Or I could be much more attracted to guys than girls but never act on my homosexual feelings, and go with a steady girlfriend, because of the negative baggage surrounding homosexuality.

if we did everything our body urged us to do then the world would be a messy messy place...

I completly agree.

But the fact is, you just repeated what I said.

You would choose to act one way or the other, but it doesn't change your personallity. If you are attracted to guys, but choose to go with a girl, it doesn't mean you are attracted to girls and are straight.

You just show that you are, it doesn't change you. Only how the others see you.

What I mean about the body would make the choice for you is, you would know who you are attracted to. It doesn't mean you will do it.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:05 pm

freezie wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway
Not necessarily. I could be more attracted to girls than I am guys but coose only to act on my homosexual feelings because I prefer the culture, lifestyle and emotional ties of homosexuality. Or I could be much more attracted to guys than girls but never act on my homosexual feelings, and go with a steady girlfriend, because of the negative baggage surrounding homosexuality.

if we did everything our body urged us to do then the world would be a messy messy place...

I completly agree.

But the fact is, you just repeated what I said.

You would choose to act one way or the other, but it doesn't change your personallity. If you are attracted to guys, but choose to go with a girl, it doesn't mean you are attracted to girls and are straight.

You just show that you are, it doesn't change you. Only how the others see you.

What I mean about the body would make the choice for you is, you would know who you are attracted to. It doesn't mean you will do it.

No. The point you were disagreeing with originally, and to which I was responding, was that people might want to be gay even if it is diagnosed as a psychological problem rather than a simple fact of biology and personality. Not that a 100% straight person can suddenly swap their sexuality.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:06 pm

Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway
Not necessarily. I could be more attracted to girls than I am guys but coose only to act on my homosexual feelings because I prefer the culture, lifestyle and emotional ties of homosexuality. Or I could be much more attracted to guys than girls but never act on my homosexual feelings, and go with a steady girlfriend, because of the negative baggage surrounding homosexuality.

if we did everything our body urged us to do then the world would be a messy messy place...

I'm pretty confident that you, at some point in your life has given in to what your body urged you to do and urinated against a housewall or in someones garden at 4 in the morning when you were drunk.

Now if everyone did that all the time the world (or at least our cities) would indeed be a very messy place.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway
Not necessarily. I could be more attracted to girls than I am guys but coose only to act on my homosexual feelings because I prefer the culture, lifestyle and emotional ties of homosexuality. Or I could be much more attracted to guys than girls but never act on my homosexual feelings, and go with a steady girlfriend, because of the negative baggage surrounding homosexuality.

if we did everything our body urged us to do then the world would be a messy messy place...
I'm pretty confident that you, at some point in your life has given in to what your body urged you to do and urinated against a housewall or in someones garden at 4 in the morning when you were drunk.

Now if everyone did that all the time the world (or at least our cities) would indeed be a very messy place.

I got tapped on the shoulder by one of our most respectable upholders of the word of the law around a week after it became illegal to piss in public whilst mid-flow. 'Excuse me sir, you do realise that what you are doing is now illegal under...' Do I stop? Do I piss through a police interview? What if I involuntarily turn around?

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:12 pm

freezie wrote:
unriggable wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
hecter wrote:Whothefuck cares whether or not is biological or psychological? The fact of the matter is, that's the way they are, they didn't choose to be that way, and they're not going to change or go away.
It's important because if it's biological, it simply is, through no fault of anyone's. If it is psychological, if it's aberrant behavior with preventable causes, than there needs to be treatment to help them overcome it.
What if they want to be gay?

They can't be wishing to be gay or not. They can act like one, or go out with guys if he finds it amusing, but if he is straight to start off, he will be attracted by women, not men.

Yeah, you misunderstood. What if they don't think there is anything wrong with them? If it was a phychological problem and it could be treated, shouldn't it be possible for people to not get treatment?

The1exile · Post by **The1exile** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:12 pm

Guiscard wrote:I got tapped on the shoulder by one of our most respectable upholders of the word of the law around a week after it became illegal to piss in public whilst mid-flow. 'Excuse me sir, you do realise that what you are doing is now illegal under...' Do I stop? Do I piss through a police interview? What if I involuntarily turn around?

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:17 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:Yeah, you misunderstood. What if they don't think there is anything wrong with them? If it was a phychological problem and it could be treated, shouldn't it be possible for people to not get treatment?

Well... not really... Would you not treat an anorexic because they thought they weren't ill?

The problem is that prior to the APA turnaround various psychologists thought homosexuality, as a neurosis, had harmful effects (for example increased chance of abusing children, higher suicide rates etc, inability to function in society) plus it brings with it all the baggage of trans-gendered people operating on themselves and the apparent horrors of the sexual deviancy of it all... If it is seen as a disease, albeit one that the homosexual doesn't believe they are suffering from, we do have a duty to attempt a cure.

Studies like E. Hooker's showed that homosexuals function perfectly normally in society, and other research (since replicated and confirmed, thanks BK) also disproved things like the child abuse claims (although I think the suicide one is controversial). The main element of the 'de-neurosis' of homosexuality was that it took away the compulsion to 'cure' homosexuality, as well as laying the groundwork for equal rights legislation.

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:21 pm

Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
freezie wrote:Well, even looking at that point..Your body will make the choice for you, anyway
Not necessarily. I could be more attracted to girls than I am guys but coose only to act on my homosexual feelings because I prefer the culture, lifestyle and emotional ties of homosexuality. Or I could be much more attracted to guys than girls but never act on my homosexual feelings, and go with a steady girlfriend, because of the negative baggage surrounding homosexuality.

if we did everything our body urged us to do then the world would be a messy messy place...

I completly agree.

But the fact is, you just repeated what I said.

You would choose to act one way or the other, but it doesn't change your personallity. If you are attracted to guys, but choose to go with a girl, it doesn't mean you are attracted to girls and are straight.

You just show that you are, it doesn't change you. Only how the others see you.

What I mean about the body would make the choice for you is, you would know who you are attracted to. It doesn't mean you will do it.
No. The point you were disagreeing with originally, and to which I was responding, was that people might want to be gay even if it is diagnosed as a psychological problem rather than a simple fact of biology and personality. Not that a 100% straight person can suddenly swap their sexuality.

Well, if we assume it was in fact a psychological problem..I guess yes, you could choose which way to go in order to bypass some treatements.

..Where did we get with thata rgument now

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:25 pm

Guiscard wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:Yeah, you misunderstood. What if they don't think there is anything wrong with them? If it was a phychological problem and it could be treated, shouldn't it be possible for people to not get treatment?
Well... not really... Would you not treat an anorexic because they thought they weren't ill?
<stuff>

Yeah I should've specified that the difference is that homosexuality isn't harmfull.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:28 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:Yeah, you misunderstood. What if they don't think there is anything wrong with them? If it was a phychological problem and it could be treated, shouldn't it be possible for people to not get treatment?
Well... not really... Would you not treat an anorexic because they thought they weren't ill?
<stuff>
Yeah I should've specified that the difference is that homosexuality isn't harmfull.

I know, but the neurosis label gives it that trait.

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:36 pm

Like you said Guiscard, do we not treat anorexics because they don't think they're ill? Btw, you never addressed the only 2 experiments that i referred to, i.e. the "Gay Twins" experiment, and the "Gay Brain" experiment. Both attempted to prove that homosexuality was biologically based, and neither have been replicated. Hooker's experiment, and the others you referred to simply dealt with sociological aspects.

gay - is it ok?

how do u feel around gay people? (only for straight males)